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Author: PuddinHead42 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 10381  
Subject: 401k tracking in Q Date: 1/4/2013 11:01 PM
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This has always bothered my. My company's 401k is with Fidelity, but it does not allow me to invest in "standard" funds. Sure, it has a "S&P 500" fund for example, but it does not have ticker symbol that Quicken can look up. I can live with that.

So, I have adopted a number of strategies, and maybe you guys have better ideas.
1) I have a standard paycheck transaction every 2 weeks, some goes to checking, savings, taxes, 401k etc. This shows up as an "Xin" transaction and increases my cash balance. That is "ok".

2) If my 401k changes in value, I might add a fake transaction for a value that makes my account "balance" with the real world. So sometimes it might be an increase or decrease. I don't do it too often, maybe once a quarter. I have tried different methods: "CGlong" or "RtrnCap". I do this because if I try to just increase the cash balance, it wants to transfer it in from somewhere, but of course there is no transfer account with a balance that it can transfer from.

3) in order to accomplish #2, I have created a fake security called "DIP Fund" and I always say the share value is $1.00 to keep it easy.

4) I have just gone back to my Fid online records and decided to "more properly" account for company matching, which does not show up in the paycheck. Instead of doing it every 2 weeks, I see what the total is at the end of the year and make it a Dec 30th transaction. I do it as an "added" shares of the fake "DIP fund".

5) by having both cash and shares of the fake DIP fund, I can't display a single valid balance on the right side of the ledger, it only shows my "cash" value. At the bottom is shows my Cash + Securities value. I would like to balance my account each Dec 31, but I can't go backwards and do that unless it is all represented as cash so I can see full balance. I could add the cash balance and the DIP balance, but that kind of stinks.

6) I also have some I did as "Miscellaneous" income and "BoughtX". totally random over the years.

So, how do other people on the board handle messes like things. Thanks in advance for your advice.

P.
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Author: DontBeLate One star, 50 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 10034 of 10381
Subject: Re: 401k tracking in Q Date: 1/5/2013 11:01 AM
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I'm not sure I understand. In Quicken, do you just have the two investments, then -- the DIP Fund and cash?

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Author: TMFTaurean Big gold star, 5000 posts Home Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 10035 of 10381
Subject: Re: 401k tracking in Q Date: 1/5/2013 2:08 PM
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Sounds overly complicated to me to be honest.

I always try to follow the money....The XIn transactions from your paycheck sound like they're being handled correctly. Have you tried adding in your own company match number to your paycheck transaction so that an additional XIn for the match will also be added to each paycheck. The fact that it doesn't show up in your paycheck anywhere is unfortunate, but you can still track it in Quicken.

When sort of transactions are downloaded from Fidelity when you do a one step update? You should get two purchase transactions for each of the securities you own, one for the money that that was from your contribution and one from the company match funds. When all of these are accepted, your available cash in the account should be $0.

My company also uses Fidelity and I've been doing it this way for years. Our paychecks show the company match at each pay period on the paystub as well as a YTD total.

Mark
CF Home Fool

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Author: gdett2 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Ticker Guide Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 10036 of 10381
Subject: Re: 401k tracking in Q Date: 1/5/2013 2:27 PM
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PuddinHead42,

I did what you are doing before I retired. It just seemed to be a hassle going in and "fixing things" each payday. I was splitting the contribution into 3 funds. I had a dummy security for each and assigned them to the appropriate asset classes.

What I ended up doing was converting back to straight cash. I made a category called InvApp and in all reports/graphs deselected it. I used that category as the Balance Adjustment category.

The downside was when I looked at charts and reports I had to mentally recalculate the content of the asset classes.

There did not seem to be a good solution.

Gene

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Author: Patzer Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 10037 of 10381
Subject: Re: 401k tracking in Q Date: 1/5/2013 9:01 PM
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My company's 401k is with Fidelity, but it does not allow me to invest in "standard" funds. Sure, it has a "S&P 500" fund for example, but it does not have ticker symbol that Quicken can look up.

At one time, I had a 401(k) with that kind of index fund. I lived with manually inputting the price on that single fund. The other funds had tikcers and I could download the prices.

I have a standard paycheck transaction every 2 weeks, some goes to checking, savings, taxes, 401k etc. This shows up as an "Xin" transaction and increases my cash balance. That is "ok".

At one time, I had an employer who played games with the timing of the 401(k) contributions. That particular employer (which later went bankrupt) held onto the cash until near the end of the quarter, resulting in 5 of my 6 contribuitons for paychecks being put into the 401(k) in the last month of the quarter.

What I did about that was create a 401(k) Receivable account in Quicken. The payroll withholding plus company match are transferred to the 401(k) Receivable account. When the deposit is made to my 401(k), it's a transfer from 401(k) Receivable plus purchases of the appropriate funds. This isn't as significant with my current employer who makes the deposits about a week after my paycheck, but I developed the habit under worse conditions.

4) I have just gone back to my Fid online records and decided to "more properly" account for company matching, which does not show up in the paycheck. Instead of doing it every 2 weeks, I see what the total is at the end of the year and make it a Dec 30th transaction. I do it as an "added" shares of the fake "DIP fund".

Because I am a salaried employee, the employer match changes only when my salary changes, once a year. I know my salary, I know the employer match percentage, and it's pretty easy to compute the employer match to the penny. So each paycheck has two split items, an inflow for Salary:401K match that is offset by an outflow that is part of the transfer to the 401(k) Receivable account. The match becomes a non-issue, as I don't bother tracking investments by employer vs. employee contributions. It's all vested anyway.

So, how do other people on the board handle messes like things.

I want my Quicken records to reflect my true net worth. To that end, I make the 401(k) in Quicken match what is going on with the real 401(k). It has the same funds, with the same tickers, and the same number of shares. Deposits happen on the date the company deposits funds to the 401(k), and shares are purchased on that date. Dividends are reinvested as happens in the real account. Between transactions, net worth is adjusted by downloading security prices.

Granted, this is easier now than it was when I had that non-standard index fund; but even then, that was only one fund that I needed to manually enter a price whenever I wanted an update to the value.

Patzer

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Author: PuddinHead42 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 10038 of 10381
Subject: Re: 401k tracking in Q Date: 1/6/2013 12:08 AM
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Thanks for all the feedback so far.

After thinking about it, my 401k is through "Fidelity Netbenefits" or www.401k.com (not regular Fidelity) Once I reconfigured the account to go there, it started pulling down transactions. However, it only went back to October of 2012, so then it also adds placeholders for the funds it found and wants me to enter the cost basis. Ugh.

If I go to the 401k site, it will let me download in a CSV or QIF file. When I try to have Q import QIF, it asks me what account I want it to go into, but notes that it cannot import QIF into 401k, checking, saving, or brokerage accounts. So it does not let me select the 401k from the drop down category list on the import dialog.

I do have "employer matching" in my paycheck entry, but while I am salaried, I am in the odd position that I can get overtime on the project I am on, so my paycheck is never the same, so the "matching" is never correct and I don't want to calculate the 6% matching on my gross each time and manually change it. Also, as noted it does not go in the day of my paycheck, it goes in 1 or 2 weeks later.

What I might do is create a category under "Salary", and call it "401kMatch", then that can be where the Xin money comes from (so it can be cash instead of "DIP Fund". I can then ignore that category in reports, or use it to show how much my company is really "paying" me.) It won't let me manually use "_401kEmployerContribution" that I see pop up in reports.

I am not too concerned about the asset allocation reports right now. I suppose they would be nice, but seems like way too hard to make work given my situation.

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Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 10043 of 10381
Subject: Re: 401k tracking in Q Date: 1/7/2013 12:43 AM
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0. Those funds are probably "institutional" versions of normal Fidelity funds. If they don't have their own tickers (quite aot of such funds do, but not all), and you can identify the normal funds, that's probably close enough.

2. It's somewhat counterintuitive, even nonsensical, but the way to have money mysteriously appear in a Quicken account is to transfer it in from the same account. Works in every version from Q95 to Q2010 so I think it's defined behavior.

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Author: nagdabbit Two stars, 250 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 10044 of 10381
Subject: Re: 401k tracking in Q Date: 1/9/2013 7:45 PM
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I have experience with the same website and use Quicken to track.

The information that Quicken provides (prices paid per lot - real cost basis) has been invaluable in making decisions on what to do in analyzing how a fund is performing for us.
Without the information of lots and what you paid - it's impossible to know if/when you decide to move money if it be a loss or a gain.

The Fidelity site does not give you that information in a usable (at a glance) form (my opinion).

When getting set up, I did not bother trying to transfer the deduction from my paycheck nor the company's match. I just deduct it from my paycheck without moving it somewhere - with the memo '401K'.

I see the contributions going in when I download from Fidelity - and the amounts appear roughly correct - I trust my Company's and Fidelity's accounting dept to apply the deductions correctly. Again - if anything's grossly off - you will notice in the download.
I worry about enough, if nothing screams at me in the transactions, that's fine.

If you have the records and can do a pretty good caluculation of your cost basis per fund for the missing transactions, I would suggest you just manually enter that for the whole lot each of the funds. It's all taxable anyway - so you don't need to 'track' what's already in there - except for calculating the performance.

At least then, you draw a line in the sand, and with the ability to now download transactions - you will have a good handle on whether you are truly Up or Down in the Fidelity account in the future...

hope this makes some sense and helps ;-)
nag

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Author: MurrayS Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 10079 of 10381
Subject: Re: 401k tracking in Q Date: 1/21/2013 7:59 PM
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My approach in Quicken for Mac is straightforward.

> Each paycheck transfers dollars into the 401k cash account.

> At the end of the quarter, I create a misc transaction for company matching.

> I buy the appropriate number of shares to equal the shares on the statement with the cash deposited in the account at the share price at the end of the quarter. The differences in actual purchase price is accounted for in a plus or minus commission.

> I've had funds without tickers. I either enter the prices manually ever week or select a similar fund with a ticker.

This approach doesn't yield a precise rate of return or net worth, but it's actually pretty close and not much work.

-murray

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Author: TMFHockeypop Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 10082 of 10381
Subject: Re: 401k tracking in Q Date: 1/21/2013 8:51 PM
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Murry, I do exactly what you do.

However, I upload my TIAA-CREF accounts twice a month. That provides a dollar amount for the funds that have no public price. That is close enough for the Net Worth.

On another post, I don't update place settings. My understanding is that they update themselves when you update from the total fund again later and the transactions have cleared.

bob

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