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Author: notablelaggard Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 21132  
Subject: 7 hrs of standing due to obese seatmate Date: 11/23/2011 9:00 PM
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almost sounds unbelievable ... picture tells it I guess ..

http://www.onenewspage.com/n/US/74mxa2sma/US-Airways-passeng...


Personally, I'd threaten a law suit.


nl
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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 17762 of 21132
Subject: Re: 7 hrs of standing due to obese seatmate Date: 11/24/2011 12:24 AM
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Yeah. Lawsuit. Frankly, I wouldn't have allowed them to close the door at the gate if they weren't going to make lard-ass move out of my seat. (Sorry to be indelicate, but that was also extremely inconsiderate of lard-ass to make the other guy stand). If they couldn't give me a seat, then they can refund my ticket and I'll leave.

Totally outrageous. Definitely time to sue someone.

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Author: TMFPMarti Big funky green star, 20000 posts Home Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 17763 of 21132
Subject: Re: 7 hrs of standing due to obese seatmate Date: 11/24/2011 6:59 AM
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(Sorry to be indelicate, but that was also extremely inconsiderate of lard-ass to make the other guy stand).

How I love the conceit of the temporarily able-bodied. There is one party at fault here, and it ain't lard-ass. It's the airline. (This assumes the incident actually happened. I don't believe anything I read on the Internet at first glance.)

I have no doubt that FAA regulations prohibit anyone standing during take-off and landing. The airline should draw a hefty fine. It's a pity the stander didn't have the presence of mind to firmly and loudly refuse to comply with the crew's instructions, which would have resulted in his arrest and removal from the plane. THEN he could have a whale of a lawsuit.

Phil
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Author: jjbklb Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 17764 of 21132
Subject: Re: 7 hrs of standing due to obese seatmate Date: 11/24/2011 8:29 AM
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I'd have kept the seat-divider down.If Mr. Hefty complained,I'd just say,"sorry,but I paid for the use of this seat space.

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Author: Rile72 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 17765 of 21132
Subject: Re: 7 hrs of standing due to obese seatmate Date: 11/24/2011 8:48 AM
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Not sure about the story, but those penny stocks are sure looking good!

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Author: sano Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 17766 of 21132
Subject: Re: 7 hrs of standing due to obese seatmate Date: 11/24/2011 1:22 PM
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Not sure about the story?


http://abcnews.go.com/US/passenger-forced-stand-obese-flyer-...

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/airways-passenger-forced-sta...

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 17769 of 21132
Subject: Re: 7 hrs of standing due to obese seatmate Date: 11/25/2011 12:43 AM
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If I was lard-ass, and I knew the guy was standing because I was in his seat, I'd have stood up. I have at least something resembling a conscience.

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 17770 of 21132
Subject: Re: 7 hrs of standing due to obese seatmate Date: 11/25/2011 12:49 AM
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Oh...but I do agree the airline is ultimately culpable here.

Of course, in today's world of on-line reservations, they had no way of knowing the guy was a wide-body until he showed up. So he's still at least somewhat responsible as well.

Plus he's still an inconsiderate bastard for forcing someone else out the seat they paid for.

Agree the airline should get a fine. (FAA could use the money with all the budget cuts.) However, based on the ABC story, the FAA isn't doing squat.

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Author: wecoguy Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 17771 of 21132
Subject: Re: 7 hrs of standing due to obese seatmate Date: 11/25/2011 3:29 AM
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Actually it's rather surprising that all the airlines down do a weigh-in at the ticket counter... We had to flying small inter-island hops in the South Pacific, or it could be taken form your picture ID or passport... Better yuet move the big guy into business or First class... Actually on longer flights, the crew jump seat would be better for him, crew has a sleeper area they could use... Or just jam him in a toilet... Hard to imagine him dealing with the world...

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Author: TMFPMarti Big funky green star, 20000 posts Home Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 17772 of 21132
Subject: Re: 7 hrs of standing due to obese seatmate Date: 11/25/2011 8:23 AM
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Actually it's rather surprising that all the airlines down do a weigh-in at the ticket counter... We had to flying small inter-island hops in the South Pacific

I had to fly commercially in a four-seat Cessna once. They weighed everything and everyone before telling us where to sit.

Phil
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Author: notablelaggard Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 17774 of 21132
Subject: Re: 7 hrs of standing due to obese seatmate Date: 11/25/2011 5:54 PM
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Or just jam him in a toilet... Hard to imagine him dealing with the world...


This is not out of personal defensiveness or hurt as I've been 'trim and fit'
all of my life, as has, for the *most* part, my family. But I just have to
say that I find this sort of response, even to that obviously shocking picture
of remarkable obesity, really cringingly cruel. You "can't imagine him
dealing with the world" so you're thinking they should "just jam him in
the toilet"!? I don't know the guy, I know NOTHING about his life or his
character or his problems, but I do find the sense of .. what is it .. some sort
of priveleged arrogance rooted in a sense of personal superiority in your remark
to be sadly offensive and disgusting. For all our sakes I hope I'm not the only
one who feels this response .. but it is what it is if I am.




nl

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Author: StockGoddess Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 17775 of 21132
Subject: Re: 7 hrs of standing due to obese seatmate Date: 11/25/2011 8:39 PM
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He paid $800 for a seat he was never given. They offer him $200 voucher? So he has to buy another ticket just to use his "coupon"?

WHY couldn't he use the jump seat? Let the airline employees stand!

Or, yes, make the obese man pay 2 seats. Did that man ctually think he'd fit in coach? Every flight I've taken in the past few years has been 100% capacity.

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Author: TeraGram Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 17776 of 21132
Subject: Re: 7 hrs of standing due to obese seatmate Date: 11/25/2011 11:37 PM
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Or, yes, make the obese man pay 2 seats.

How do you know he didn't?

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 17777 of 21132
Subject: Re: 7 hrs of standing due to obese seatmate Date: 11/26/2011 1:52 AM
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How do you know he didn't?

Because there was not a vacant seat to be had. It said so in the story.

So he was occupying a seat to which he had no right or claim.

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Author: TeraGram Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 17778 of 21132
Subject: Re: 7 hrs of standing due to obese seatmate Date: 11/26/2011 4:02 AM
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How do you know he didn't?

Because there was not a vacant seat to be had. It said so in the story.

So he was occupying a seat to which he had no right or claim.


Your naivete is showing.

Just because someone (aside, someone you have never met, who you feel justified calling "lard-ass") paid for two seats does NOT MEAN that the airlines reserved two seats immediately adjacent, across from or in any way related to each other.

Apparently, "LARD-ASS", as you so lovingly called him, arrived first.

Therefore, he got to sit down first.

Since we have divulged to grade-school logic and gamesmanship, "LARD-ASS" gets to sit first.

So, you know who's at fault?

SLOW-POKE.

If SLOW-POKE had arrived earlier he would've had his seat first and HE would be the one sitting instead of "LARD-ASS".

Here's something else you apparently didn't know.

"LARD-ASS" could have paid for two seats but guess what? That does not mean he gets to bring on two bags, have two meals or have double of anything else.

Folks who pay for two seats because of their weight are NOT granted access to double the whatever that others are for the price of their tickets.

If a person has to pay for two seats, they should be granted double the "rights". If a ticket allows for one seat, one meal, one pillow, one drink, one bag, the forced purchase of two seats should allow for two seats, two meals, two pillows, two drinks, two bags.

But, it doesn't. There are multiple, easily searchable instances of forced dual seat purchases where the "LARD-ASS" seat was a single in the center of a three-seat row, where each window & aisle seat occupied by a skinny.

If there is to be a forced two seat purchase by a "LARD ASS" then "LARD ASS" ought to also receive two meals, two bags, and double all other benefits by the seat.

But this is not how airlines treat passengers.

Doubt me? Go ahead, search for stories that prove me wrong.

Until real parity is levied, do not expect that people of size exhibit any sympathy to the poor schmuck who "was forced to stand".

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Author: TMFPMarti Big funky green star, 20000 posts Home Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 17779 of 21132
Subject: Re: 7 hrs of standing due to obese seatmate Date: 11/26/2011 6:27 AM
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Until real parity is levied, do not expect that people of size exhibit any sympathy to the poor schmuck who "was forced to stand".

This thread brings a couple of things to my mind. Lord of the Flies and Jerry Springer's frequent female guests who were both being cheated on by the same cad and, for unknown reasons, both wanted to claw each others eyes out while Prince Charming sat there grinning.

Why is it people feel a need to shift blame from the obvious culprit, the airline, to one of the victims of the airline's misconduct? A curious species, indeed.

Phil
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Author: TeraGram Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 17780 of 21132
Subject: Re: 7 hrs of standing due to obese seatmate Date: 11/26/2011 11:30 AM
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Why is it people feel a need to shift blame from the obvious culprit, the airline, to one of the victims of the airline's misconduct? A curious species, indeed.


In case you missed it, that was precisely my point.

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Author: SirYoda Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 17781 of 21132
Subject: Re: 7 hrs of standing due to obese seatmate Date: 11/26/2011 12:20 PM
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Apparently, "LARD-ASS", as you so lovingly called him, arrived first.

Therefore, he got to sit down first.

-------------------------------------------------

Actually, this story on CNN has it the other way......the "passenger of size" arrived late in the boarding cycle:

He initially had an empty seat next to him on Flight 901, but a late passenger sat there and took more space than he paid for.

see: http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/25/travel/passenger-of-size/index...

Yoda

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Author: TeraGram Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 17782 of 21132
Subject: Re: 7 hrs of standing due to obese seatmate Date: 11/26/2011 12:50 PM
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Actually, this story on CNN has it the other way......the "passenger of size" arrived late in the boarding cycle:

He initially had an empty seat next to him on Flight 901, but a late passenger sat there and took more space than he paid for.


Oh. Interesting. Missed that first time.

No matter, it just means "might makes right".

;)

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Author: pixiecakes Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 17783 of 21132
Subject: Re: 7 hrs of standing due to obese seatmate Date: 11/26/2011 2:32 PM
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How I love the conceit of the temporarily able-bodied. There is one party at fault here, and it ain't lard-ass. It's the airline. (This assumes the incident actually happened. I don't believe anything I read on the Internet at first glance.)

I can't vouch for the story, but the picture shown is a Photoshopped image that's been on the internet for years and is unlikely to actually be the person in question.

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Author: sano Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 17784 of 21132
Subject: Re: 7 hrs of standing due to obese seatmate Date: 11/26/2011 3:30 PM
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I can't vouch for the story, but the picture shown is a Photoshopped image that's been on the internet for years and is unlikely to actually be the person in question.

Apparently the last flight 901 occured in August - type in 901, it isn't an active route:
http://flights.usairways.com/Default.aspx

There is no more 901 according to the US Air route map
http://flights.usairways.com/en-US/routemap.html


Aircraft

Boeing 757-200 (twin-jet) (B752/Q - track or photos)



Origin

Terminal S / Anchorage Intl (PANC - track or info)



Destination

Terminal B / Philadelphia Intl (KPHL - track or info)





Other flights between these airports



Route

GKN J124 ORT SETMI NCA22 YTH NCA22 YSB J557 YEE J556 YYZ J531 BUF J61 PSB BOJID1 (Decode)



Date

Sunday, August 21 2011



Duration

6 hours 21 minutes


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Author: SirYoda Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 17785 of 21132
Subject: Re: 7 hrs of standing due to obese seatmate Date: 11/26/2011 3:38 PM
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I can't vouch for the story, but the picture shown is a Photoshopped image that's been on the internet for years and is unlikely to actually be the person in question.
---------------------------

Was wondering when someone was going to point that out!

Pics I've seen with this story are all "stock" images (empty seats, airplanes in flight, etc.).

Not saying it did not happen, just that the photos are not of the people involved (so far...)

Yoda

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Author: TMFPMarti Big funky green star, 20000 posts Home Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 17786 of 21132
Subject: Re: 7 hrs of standing due to obese seatmate Date: 11/26/2011 5:04 PM
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Apparently the last flight 901 occured in August

It would make sense that ANC-PHL would be seasonal at best.

Phil
Rule Your Retirement Home Fool

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 17787 of 21132
Subject: Re: 7 hrs of standing due to obese seatmate Date: 11/26/2011 5:41 PM
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Oh. Interesting. Missed that first time.

No matter, it just means "might makes right".


I agree the airline shares a huge amount of the blame. But common courtesy would be "Oh, I'm in your seat? I'm sorry. I'll move."

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Author: LQueiros Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 17788 of 21132
Subject: Re: 7 hrs of standing due to obese seatmate Date: 11/27/2011 10:06 AM
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How do you know he didn't?

http://www.nodeju.com/16429/a-man-flies-7-hours-standing-up....
US Airways has since admitted to have made a mistake and confirmed its ticket counter should have sold the 377 pound passenger two seats instead of one, thus avoiding Berkowitz’ problem.

Some news sources are reporting that the passenger stood the entire time, including takeoff & landing, which is prohibited by the FAA. According to CNN, that's not the case:

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-11-25/travel/travel_passenger-o...
...As the flight was filled to capacity, and as passengers are not permitted to sit in the flight attendants' jump seats, Berkowitz found himself strolling through the cabin for hours. Flight attendants apparently asked him to remain seated and fasten his seat belt, but he said the co-passenger was seated on his seat belt fastener, making this impossible.

That meant that, though he did manage to wedge himself into his seat for the takeoff and landing, he was unable to comply with the requirement that his seat belt be fastened at those times.


This story raises some interesting questions:
http://community.mantecabulletin.com/blogs/detail/7404/

In case you didn't catch it, this incident occurred on JULY 29 (so T's info about the last 901 flight in August concurs):
http://overheadbin.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/23/8980390-fl...
The incident occurred on July 29 and was first reported by [consumer advocate Chris] Elliott on Tuesday.

Also, AFA the passenger having to stand, I found the following facts interesting:

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/obese-copassenger-makes-man-stand...
"He was the last one to board, and as he walked down to me, he said, 'I really want to apologize. I'm your worst nightmare,'" Arthur Berkowitz, 57, said of the obese man who squeezed next to him on the flight...."He was a cordial person. But the facts are, he took half my seat, and half the seat of an exchange student who was pinned up against the window," Berkowitz was quoted as saying by New York Post..."

So one would deduce that Mr. Berkowitz therefore had the aisle seat. Which would imply that he perched uncomfortably on the seat, perhaps with the outside armrest raised up, for take-off & landing.

The airlines all carry seat-belt extensions. If the large, middle-seat passenger was overflowing onto the aisle seat seat-belt fastener, he could have stood up for the crew to add on the extension, allowing Mr. Berkowitz to have secondary attachment point that he could manipulate while in his aisle seat.

If one only had half an aisle seat, I could envision that it was possible to sit one's tush down for a few minutes, with the armrest up, to rest the feet and legs. Especially since Mr. Berkowitz was able to accomplish this for takeoff and landing.

I'm not saying it would be comfortable, especially when paying $800 for a ticket. But I have to agree with some of the bloggers points that there might be more behind this story than we are hearing in the press.

Why haven't we heard any complaints or corroborating information from the exchange student? Wouldn't it have been even worse to have been trapped & squished against the window? I would think so. What about that person's seat-belt? Shouldn't he have had the same fastening issues as Mr. Berkowitz, if the middle seat passenger was overflowing halfway onto both seats as Mr. Berkowitz describes?

Also:
...Berkowitz said his ordeal in July presented a safety risk because he could not use his seat-belt for take-off and landing...

How did the airline crew not notice the lack of a seat-belt during takeoff? As mentioned in the links, FAA regulations prohibit takeoff unless everyone is fastened in. I have a hard time fathoming that the crew didn't notice the situation in an aisle seat, with passengers that stick out like a sore thumb due to the difficult seating arrangement. Why didn't Berkowitz alert the crew prior to take-off that couldn't fasten his belt?

Or is he saying they knew and they let the plane take off anyway, without letting the captain know there was a seat-belt issue in violation of FAA regulations? Odd, odd, odd...

There are enough loose ends in the story to make one say, hmmmm....maybe all is not as it seems.

Laura

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Author: StockGoddess Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 17790 of 21132
Subject: Re: 7 hrs of standing due to obese seatmate Date: 11/28/2011 9:52 AM
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How did the airline crew not notice the lack of a seat-belt during takeoff?


Noticed, figured they couldn't fix it, ignored it as the engines were revving and the plane was taxiing out. He was probably wedged so tight they figured he was essentially belted in anyway...


Why haven't we heard any complaints or corroborating information from the exchange student?


Not everyone wants to be in the newspapers. Not everyone complains about crap they have to put up with. Heck, depending on the country he was from, ("exchange") he may be USED to being crammed in like a sardine. Ever seen the trains in Japan, India?

If not, briefly view this video of "Train Pushers" in Japan and tell me how much free space they're used to:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STNWc7Rlpfk

There are enough loose ends in the story to make one say, hmmmm....maybe all is not as it seems.



Not really. First one poster pointed out the flights ended in August, then we saw it happened in June. I don't see a lot here to indicate it never happened - surely the airline would want to quash the story quickly with THAT evidence, if they could.

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Author: techie23 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 17791 of 21132
Subject: Re: 7 hrs of standing due to obese seatmate Date: 11/28/2011 10:41 AM
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[consumer advocate Chris] Elliott on Tuesday.

Cabin Boy is now a consumer advocate? Who knew?

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 17792 of 21132
Subject: Re: 7 hrs of standing due to obese seatmate Date: 11/28/2011 1:51 PM
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I had heard about "pushers". Never seen them in action. In the US people would probably wait for the next train rather than allow themselves to be packed that tightly.

Reminds me of Schindler's List. I wonder how the people inside could even breathe.

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Author: notablelaggard Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 17793 of 21132
Subject: Re: 7 hrs of standing due to obese seatmate Date: 11/28/2011 7:42 PM
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REALLY GOOD for 'gropers' though ..

so .. there is that!

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Author: BetterThanGold One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 17812 of 21132
Subject: Re: 7 hrs of standing due to obese seatmate Date: 12/1/2011 1:32 PM
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damn...7 hours of standing...i'll go berserk..but then i dont want to be kicked out of the plane or being tasered by the TSA=)

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