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Subject:  Re: Retire Early Group Health Plan Date:  3/18/2000  2:02 AM
Author:  jpkiljan Number:  6308 of 800641

The FourGoneFool wrote:

This was childish and uncalled for. You can disagree with me all you want, but let's keep it civil. I won't demand an apology,
but I think you owe me one. If I ever resort to name calling, you can remind me of this and be assured I will apologize.

Oh calm down! No one has called anyone any names except when you called me 'childish and un-civil' just now. Perhaps you are confusing me with another poster. In keeping with your promise, your apology is accepted in advance. Your motives are not in question here, it is your conclusions and the facts you use to support them that are being challenged.

Sorry, but you may have a long wait for that apology you say you expect.

. . .I even proposed an alternative solution which you did not address. You
could have chosen to pick apart my idea, but instead, you chose to attack me.

Again, none has attacked you yet. It is your conclusions about the proper role of government (federal, state and local) that is being disagreed with. The alternative solutions you proposed in this (and other posts) weren't picked apart because they seem to have merit. They may also be used to fix what is broken about the system.

This is a common tactic of big government
, so I have fortunately developed a fairly thick skin.

Ouch! I'm certainly glad this wasn't name calling or a personal attack. This espcially hurts after spending so much of my working career trying to privatize government functions, but that's another story and you don't know me very well, yet.

Actually we have the government as "our basic medical safety net" and I have no problem with that. Medicaid serves its
purpose just like SSI.

I will argue vigorously that medicaid, medicare, big city hospital emergency rooms, county public health clinics and the few remaining charitable hospitals don't provide a medical safety net for our society and certainly not for it's children.

I don't want to live in a nanny state and I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want to live in one even if I drop to the
bottom strata of the economic scale. The fire-aim-ready approach of our federal government is highly unlikely to be fair, just,
cost-effective or comprehensive. The profit motive in our health care system drives the innovation that makes our system
routinely produce technological miracles. Without the profit motive, we wouldn't have such things as balloon angioplasty, laser
eye surgery or any of the non-invasive procedures we now benefit from.

On this we most certainly disagree. Medical research has not ground to a halt in countries with even the most socialized of medical systems. The list of medical research benefits coming out of Europe is pretty impressive. Just check out some of the European pharmicutical web pages. I think even the Russians were the first to invent corrective eye surgery.

. . . What we have now is a capitalist economy that would go into recession if the burden of government
became too great. Then the multitude of unskilled laborers that currently gets health care benefits from their capitalist pigdog
employers would be laid off and Uncle Sam's coffers would soon be empty. We would be in really deep kimshi if that

Sounds good, but you have neglected to explain why Germany, Sweden, the Netherlands, the UK and other countries w