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|Subject: Re: Cardinal Carlo Martini||Date: 10/3/2012 11:14 AM|
|Author: Frydaze1||Number: 183184 of 197447|
1. sex is reserved for a man and woman inside a marriage. The Bible assumes the fact that the woman is old enough to marry. That would make sex with an under-aged girl immoral, one who is not old enough to marry.
Having read some commentaries on the subject, it seems that the usual age for a Jewish girl in the first century to be considered old enough to be betrothed was 12. This would be followed by a betrothal period of less than a year. So these girls were marrying at 13 or less.
Do you consider that a little girl? I do.
2. Deut. 22:28ff makes it clear that rape was considered immoral in the OT.
No it doesn't. It just says that after he rapes her he has to pay her father and then marry her. It doesn't say not to do it:
Deu 22:28 If a man find a damsel [that is] a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;
Deu 22:29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty [shekels] of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.
3. Jesus and The Golden Rule: I would not want to be raped, so it would be wrong to rape someone else.
There is no "Golden Rule" in the bible. The second commandment is the closest you'll come to it.
4. Jesus on the greatest commandments: #2 is love your neighbor as yourself.
Only if they're of your same religion. That doesn't seem to apply to non-christians. Evidence of that would be the many, many times that god commanded his people to kill off their neighbors. Unless, of course, you're saying that god and his morals changed over time. But you wouldn't say that, because that would indicate that even god's morals aren't ultimate morals.
5. Fornication, having sex with someone you're not married to, is immoral.
Actually, while there are a lot of verses that condemn sexual immorality, I'm having trouble finding any that define it. And none that say not to have sex before marriage. There are some that say once you're married you shouldn't have sex with anyone else. But the closest I can find to a verse condemning sex before marriage is
1 Corinthians 7:1-40 which actually says that it would be better not to have *any* sex. Of course, this is the same verse that says once you're married you are *required* to have sex if your partner wants to. See above about marriage age of 12...
6. Lev 18:6 "Do not have sexual relations with a close relative" This would cover girls who are related to you, consensual or not
We weren't discussing incest at all.
I'd argue also that some things would have just been unimaginably evil, even in the eyes of the ancient Hebrews. Raping little girls has to be near the top of the list.
Oh no doubt rape is evil and many people have decided so. But not based on specific statements in the bible, except as they choose to interpret them. Unimaginable evil, though? Rape has happened throughout history in probably every culture. So I'd say that people have a lot more imagination than you give them credit for.
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