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URL:  http://boards.fool.com/hi-madcapitalist-1-we-havent-had-a-budget-30405500.aspx

Subject:  Re: Facts are stubborn things Date:  11/29/2012  4:00 PM
Author:  rclaussen Number:  1841013 of 1967145

Hi MadCapitalist,

“1) We haven't had a budget surplus when Democrats controlled Congress since 1969…
// …
“6) Even when tax revenue hit a post-World War II low as a percentage of GDP in 2009 (15.1%) because of the economic downturn, …”

“Those pesky facts…”

It appears you are trying to create a cause/effect argument. The issue is the effect is far more complicated than just saying the deficits are higher when the Democrats are in control, therefore, the Democrats are the cause which is what you are trying to have us believe.

For example, you state:

“Total spending increased 29% in only two years from FY 2007 to FY 2009 under a Democrat-controlled Congress.”

I do not disagree spending increased. However, to be fair, you must acknowledge the increase in spending occurred during the most severe recession since the Great Depression and WOULD HAVE OCCURRED regardless of WHO was in control. That is simply a function of the safety net which helped stabilize the economy in the mist of freefall and prevent the decline into a depression.

For example, you state:

“6) Even when tax revenue hit a post-World War II low as a percentage of GDP in 2009 (15.1%) because of the economic downturn, real per capita tax revenue ($6,183) was 17% higher -- in real terms -- than 30 years earlier ($5,276 in 1979). Yep, real per capita tax revenue was much higher after the Reagan and Bush "tax cuts," and yet these "tax cuts" contributed to our budget problems (http://boards.fool.com/taxes-and-spending-per-capita-in-2005...

You go further in the link provided to state:

“This is a great example of why I'm adamant against raising taxes until *after* our politicians balance the budget and keep it balanced. Real per capita taxes continue their upward trajectory (except temporarily for downturns of course), but it is never enough. They will just keep increasing spending so that it outpaces the increases in taxes.”

Realize it was President George W. Bush who single handedly eliminated the surplus of the Clinton era and increased spending more than any other president, to the point he was roundly criticized by the right.

His policies brought about the greatest income and wealth inequality we have seen certainly in our lifetimes, and perhaps in the history of our nation. These inequalities must be addressed to deal with the fiscal problems we face.

These sentiments come from a Republican who is certainly not one of the struggling poor or middle class – Bill Gross of PIMCO. You would do well to read thoughts from many more Republicans of similar circumstances.

October 27, 2011 I completed a post on these boards that addressed the issues of this thread. What is striking about the post is the basis of the post is two articles printed in 2003 and 2004 which described the situation we are currently facing.

Think about that for a minute. Two articles – published nine and eight years ago were able to highlight the issues we currently face. I encourage you to read my post (it is definitely not light reading) and the accompanying thread (see link below). However, prior to reading the post, the following is an introduction posted on a subscription board and re-produced here:


“I finally completed the post I referenced earlier on the MDP boards. It has taken more than a month to research and put together the ideas. The post will require a significant time commitment as it involves not only my thoughts and ideas, but the referenced works of many others which you may chose to explore. The intent is to present a wide range of interconnected topics, encourage you to expand your thoughts through dialogue and research, and encourage your participation in our Democracy through your vote and dialogue with our representatives.

Democracy is important to our way of life and to us as self-managed investors, which is why I felt the need to engage in this project. In researching the material, I found the following description of “What is Democracy?”

“We can think of democracy as a system of government with four key elements:

1. A political system for choosing and replacing the government through free and fair elections.

2. The active participation of the people, as citizens, in politics and civic life.

3. Protection of the human rights of all citizens.

4. A rule of law, in which the laws and procedures apply equally to all citizens.”

The elements outlined above may be more fully explored by following the link below:

http://www.stanford.edu/~ldiamond/iraq/WhaIsDemocracy012004....

Although I talk about investing and bull/bear arguments, the subject matter is such I chose to post it on TMF free boards (Politics & Current Events / Political Quagmire - Post 89482) to avoid potential conflicts on the MDP boards. The link is provided below…

http://boards.fool.com/how-we-got-here-where-are-we-headed-2... How We Got Here - Where Are We Headed?”


Thanks,
Bob
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