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Author: Goofyhoofy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 1977252  
Subject: A Baker's Dozen Ironies Date: 11/12/2000 9:00 PM
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If this weren't all so sad, it would be funny. There's a paradox a minute popping through the scenery, a hypocrite on every corner, and the rest of us are just stuck here, waiting for the train wreck to, er, unwreck.

• For instance, how could George W. ever have guessed that the law he just signed in Texas about giving preference to manual recounts would come back so soon to bite him on the ass?

• How could Al Gore have guessed that losing his home state of Tennessee could cost him the election? Obviously he didn't, because he barely campaigned there.

• It's the Republican Party which warned about "putting the process in the courts", and yet they are the party which has done so. Even more amusing, they are the ones who say "Things are better handled at the state level, when it comes to education, abortion, and so on". And now they have gone to Federal Court to block a recount in a state election.

• The Democrats, of course, have little virtue here. "We only want to count the votes", they say, even while they snicker that they were clever enough to request recounts in the Democratic counties, while the Republicans let the deadlines pass in the Republican ones.

• Ralph Nader, who started off saying "I am not a spoiler" finished up by saying "I am a not a spoiler, if Gore weren't so incompetent people would vote for him and not me" and now says "Clearly Gore won against the rabid reactionary policies of the right-wing Bush campaign." How's that again?

• Pat Buchanan, one of the most partisan of politicians, gave forth a burst of non-partisanship when he admitted what the Bush campaign cannot, that it looks as though many people who voted for Buchanan actually meant to vote for Gore.

• People who presumably can play 30 bingo cards at once in a fast-paced game against hundreds of competitors now complain that they cannot understand how to vote a butterfly ballot when there is no time limit and there are people all around to help.

• Now we find out that "machine counting" can be off by as much as 2-5% on every count, and up 'til now, that's been OK. It certainly gives me confidence about the scanners at the supermarket, I'll say. And about that SAT score I used to be so proud of.

• Early on the Bush team urged Gore to concede, even before all the votes were tallied. Now they want to wait for the overseas ballots to come in. But they don't want the machine votes counted by hand, even though the overseas ballots must be.

• All the TV folks tee-heed for decades about that famous headline in the Chicago Tribune: "Dewey Wins!" Then they called Florida for Gore. Then they didn't. They they called the election for Bush. Then they didn't. Maybe they won't laugh at the Tribune quite so much anymore. Maybe they'll even rethink their own policies!

• The Electoral College was set up because the Founding Fathers didn't trust the passions of the public. So they set in place a "check and balance" to make sure that "electors" could vote their conscience and ignore party dictates, or even the voters! Now those people who most often preach about "The Founding Fathers" are aghast at the idea that a couple of electors might vote their conscience, and tip the election.

• The son of Mayor Richard Daley, widely credited with electing JFK by "helping" with the Chicago election, is now trying to unsteal, or steal (depending on your point of view) the election for Al Gore. What was that they say? History repeats itself?

• Politicians raised, and spent a billion dollars on this election. And you thought the dot-com bubble was a bust!

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Author: tensforme Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 7809 of 1977252
Subject: Re: A Baker's Dozen Ironies Date: 11/12/2000 10:50 PM
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How many lawsuits has the Bush camp filed?



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Author: mob99 Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 7820 of 1977252
Subject: Re: A Baker's Dozen Ironies Date: 11/12/2000 11:28 PM
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As tens of thousands of votes get thrown out all around the country, is it any wonder that anyone thinks the old "every vote counts" cry is a sham?

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Author: MurrayS Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 7873 of 1977252
Subject: Re: A Baker's Dozen Ironies Date: 11/13/2000 8:51 AM
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How many lawsuits has the Bush camp filed?

One more than the Gore camp!

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Author: chrisb76 Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 7876 of 1977252
Subject: Re: A Baker's Dozen Ironies Date: 11/13/2000 9:10 AM
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The son of Mayor Richard Daley, widely credited with electing JFK by "helping" with the Chicago election, is now trying to unsteal, or steal (depending on your point of view) the election for Al Gore. What was that they say? History repeats itself?

In Friday's Chicago Tribune, William Daley was quoted as saying that this Florida Fiasco (I am officially coining that term now :-) is "the worst injustice in american history"

I laughed out loud when I read that. Come on! His own father and Joe Kennedy conspire with the mob to fix votes, that's not a bigger injustice. Or slavery, no that wasn't a bigger injustice. These people need to go take a time out, count to 10 days, and come back.

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Author: chrisb76 Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 7878 of 1977252
Subject: Re: A Baker's Dozen Ironies Date: 11/13/2000 9:12 AM
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How many lawsuits has the Bush camp filed?

One more than the Gore camp!


Well technically Gore DID file one lawsuit in federal court, then withdrew it when a conservative judge came up.

I don't know if that meets the definition of "file" though. It doens't according to the Dem spindoctors.

Now they criticize GWB for going to federal court. They are all hypocrites.

Not me though, I am never one.

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Author: JimiH3ndrix Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 7885 of 1977252
Subject: Re: A Baker's Dozen Ironies Date: 11/13/2000 9:39 AM
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• Politicians raised, and spent a billion dollars on this election. And you thought the dot-com bubble was a bust!

Hi Goofyhoofy!

Actually, in a recent front-page article in the Washington Post, that total was placed closer to $3 billion:

The most expensive election by far in U.S. history comes to a close tomorrow, with an estimated $3 billion spent on the presidential and congressional races--including hundreds of millions by outside groups that do not disclose their donors or spending--and another $1 billion or more on increasingly expensive state contests.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A20314-2000Nov5.html

Jimi





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Author: xcyclone One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 7963 of 1977252
Subject: Re: A Baker's Dozen Ironies Date: 11/13/2000 3:49 PM
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• People who presumably can play 30 bingo cards at once in a fast-paced game against hundreds of competitors now complain that they cannot understand how to vote a butterfly ballot when there is no time limit and there are people all around to help.

The voters had five minutes in the booth. My husband took longer than that and we had these super easy draw a line from point a to point b ballots! I've no sympathy for anyone in this whole ordeal anymore, except this: I would not want my grandmother to have to fill out this ballot in five minutes.


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Author: KentuckyLiz Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 8009 of 1977252
Subject: Re: A Baker's Dozen Ironies Date: 11/13/2000 5:11 PM
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How many lawsuits has the Bush camp filed?

One more than the Gore camp!


Not if you're counting the 8 lawsuits that Gore is helping to fund, plus the one they filed today.

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Author: TMFSpirit Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 8069 of 1977252
Subject: Re: A Baker's Dozen Ironies Date: 11/13/2000 7:47 PM
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Excellent post Goofy,

One more item that should be mentioned is that the Bush campaign ignored 24,000 uncounted votes that were thrown out in Florida's Duval county. I think they thought they could convince the Gore operatives that their strong areas had thousands of uncounted votes too and it would equal out...but it didn't work.

Jacksonsille Florida is located in Duval county and voted for Bush by a margin of almost 60%. If the Republicans and Democrats really want to be fair, I think both parties should set up state-wide standands, like Texas, for conducting hand recounts and then count every ballot for the 3rd and final time in all 67 counties. However, I doubt they will agree to a state-wide hand recount and instead we will have one court battle after another.

One bright spot ....at least these old voting machines will NOT be around for the 2004 election. :)

The Brits are laughing at us! http://asia.dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/world/article.html?s=asia/headlines/001113/world/afp/Britons_laugh_at_US_vote_tangle.html
Of course, if it weren't for us, they'd be reading about our election in Der Spiegel without the need for a translation. :)


Keep Foolish and Prosper,

Spirit

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Author: Rimbo Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 8074 of 1977252
Subject: Re: A Baker's Dozen Ironies Date: 11/13/2000 7:56 PM
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Great post. One small bone to pick, though:

People who presumably can play 30 bingo cards at once in a fast-paced game against hundreds of competitors now complain that they cannot understand how to vote a butterfly ballot when there is no time limit and there are people all around to help.

Maybe now we know why Bingo parlors are such a great way to make money? :)



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Author: montashigi Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 8139 of 1977252
Subject: Re: A Baker's Dozen Ironies Date: 11/14/2000 4:06 AM
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TMFSpirit--
One more item that should be mentioned is that the Bush campaign ignored 24,000 uncounted votes that were thrown out in Florida's Duval county. I think they thought they could convince the Gore operatives that their strong areas had thousands of uncounted votes too and it would equal out...but it didn't work.

News coming out of Duval County claims that at least 12,000 of those 24,000 disqualified ballots were in minority dominated precincts that went heavily for Gore, even though the county as a whole went for Bush. When this news came out, the Gore people went ballistic.

The Brits are laughing at us! ... Of course, if it weren't for us, they'd be reading about our election in Der Spiegel without the need for a translation. :)

Amen, Spirit. I'm getting sick and tired of reports of Brits and Germans and Cubans laughing at us. It may be the ugly American in me talking, but I say, "Laugh it up, morons. How funny would it be to find a nuclear warhead shoved up your butts come January?" I haven't heard anything derogatory from any heads of state, because they know that regardless of whether Bush or Gore come out ahead, neither of them would forgive any slights during an American national emergency. Think about it. Down in Florida, they are deciding who will be the most powerful person in the world for the next 4 years. If this were happening anywhere else in the world, Kofi Annan would be trying to scare up 100,000 peace keepers. But this is the United States, and all we need are a bunch of overworked civil servants and a handful of lawyers in nice suits. The confidence the American people have that this thing will be decided with justice is astounding. Judging by the clowns on both sides actually running the thing, that confidence seems misplaced, but apparently, we sense that the soundness of the system will ultimately overcome the frailty of the individuals involved.

I can't think of a single country anywhere in the world that can handle this situation better. I would give those foreign chucklers the option of having the next leader of the free world chosen under American laws or under the laws of their native land. I would guess they wouldn't pick their own system.

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