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Author: JohnEBgood Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 1947221  
Subject: A Crazy Thought Date: 10/31/2013 2:47 AM
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Why did the roll-out of the ACA become such a disaster????

Does ANYbody really know?

Here's my thought.....crazy as it might sound.

How do we know that SOMEbody.....SOMEbody who totally hated the Obama Administration....didn't get into the system and eff things up??

No kidding.

Jack
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Author: Stonewashed Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1907875 of 1947221
Subject: Re: A Crazy Thought Date: 10/31/2013 5:00 AM
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Why did the roll-out of the ACA become such a disaster????

Does ANYbody really know?

Here's my thought.....crazy as it might sound.

How do we know that SOMEbody.....SOMEbody who totally hated the Obama Administration....didn't get into the system and eff things up??

No kidding.

Jack
______________

Why, in your mind, would this "possibility" only be executed by those who hate the Obama administration?

Why wouldn't certain others who wanted a single payer system to begin with, be incapable of such tactics in your mind?

All I know is both sides are talking out of both sides of their mouth. That's what I know. None of this is "affordable" nor transparent for anyone who really does have to make an informed decision on these matters.

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Author: ramsfanray Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1907894 of 1947221
Subject: Re: A Crazy Thought Date: 10/31/2013 8:47 AM
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I just don't think the House Republicans are smart enough to know how to turn a computer on, let alone hack one.

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1907898 of 1947221
Subject: Re: A Crazy Thought Date: 10/31/2013 8:55 AM
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I just don't think the House Republicans are smart enough to know how to turn a computer on, let alone hack one.

_____________________________

Of course that still put them way up on the Dems in general, who apparently have a really hard time eve hiring someone with that level of talent.

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Author: cjb44 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1907904 of 1947221
Subject: Re: A Crazy Thought Date: 10/31/2013 9:12 AM
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It's a crazy thought, but not a unique one. Heard it before the system went online. Frankly, if true (which is doubtful) it would still undermind the administration for setting up a system with so many security flaws that could happen.

Besides, the problem with O-care isn't the website. that's just the distraction from the Left. They want people paying attention to that so they are paying attention to the people losing insurance or suffering rate hikes.

So far more people have lost insurance since Oct 1, than have gained it. That's something the administration doesn't want being made public. And why nobody from the administration will release the number of people who have enrolled.

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Author: wzambon Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1907910 of 1947221
Subject: Re: A Crazy Thought Date: 10/31/2013 9:29 AM
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I heard rumors of denial of service attacks early on in the rollout.

But frankly, even if true, that doesn't explain the major problems which were known and/or anticipated.. which resulted in requests to delay the rollout, but were ignored.

Looking at political opponents as scapegoats in this mess is cheesy.

It's on the current administration. As rich said yesterday- they own it.

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Author: cjb44 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1907914 of 1947221
Subject: Re: A Crazy Thought Date: 10/31/2013 9:50 AM
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I heard rumors of denial of service attacks early on in the rollout.

____________

Those were just the media trying to log on and see what the process was like ;) (Idiots)

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Author: Stonewashed Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1907919 of 1947221
Subject: Re: A Crazy Thought Date: 10/31/2013 10:06 AM
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I heard rumors of denial of service attacks early on in the rollout.

I read technical accounts that the system was denying itself service because there was non-integration of computer code between data bases.

But frankly, even if true, that doesn't explain the major problems which were known and/or anticipated.. which resulted in requests to delay the rollout, but were ignored.

Looking at political opponents as scapegoats in this mess is cheesy.

It's on the current administration. As rich said yesterday- they own it.


The GOP should be concentrating on what one sees once one actually does get to some level within a state or the federal site that gives them "a quote".

Mostly what I see is a lot of disclaimers about that quote and not much information about "the network" that really is available. People should also know bronze, silver, gold, and platinum have nothing whatsoever to do with access to quality care, just how much out of pocket they will be expected to pay in any given year.

A good comparison would be, if you bought something you perceive to be a cadillac because it is labeled "platinum" but has very few roads that lead to anywhere to drive it on, it doesn't mean squat.

Also an expensive policy that would be called a PPO but only covers 70 percent of costs, 30 percent of a million dollars is 300,000 plus the deductible(and that's every year).


I honestly don't see where anything has improved or become affordable for most people. Nothing partisan about it.

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1907944 of 1947221
Subject: Re: A Crazy Thought Date: 10/31/2013 11:24 AM
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I heard rumors of denial of service attacks early on in the rollout.
______________________

That is probably because you frequent whack job sites, that give you whack job stuff

However, even with being the type that loves whack job lib sites, even the remotest hint of honesty would have forced you to acknowledge if they had any chance of blaming this on forces that were actually verifiably against them, as opposed to asinine innuendo from folks who appear to be idiots, they clearly would have.

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Author: wzambon Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1907948 of 1947221
Subject: Re: A Crazy Thought Date: 10/31/2013 11:37 AM
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I heard rumors of denial of service attacks early on in the rollout.
______________________

That is probably because you frequent whack job sites, that give you whack job stuff

However, even with being the type that loves whack job lib sites, even the remotest hint of honesty would have forced you to acknowledge if they had any chance of blaming this on forces that were actually verifiably against them, as opposed to asinine innuendo from folks who appear to be idiots, they clearly would have.


Next time, try reading my entire post.

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Author: JohnEBgood Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1907998 of 1947221
Subject: Re: A Crazy Thought Date: 10/31/2013 12:40 PM
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cjb44 wrote:

So far more people have lost insurance since Oct 1, than have gained it. That's something the administration doesn't want being made public.

Would you be kind enough to provide a link to the place where you got those data?

Thanks.

Jack

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Author: JohnEBgood Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1908005 of 1947221
Subject: Re: A Crazy Thought Date: 10/31/2013 12:47 PM
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Looking at political opponents as scapegoats in this mess is cheesy.

Perhaps. But it is not too difficult to imagine that a few "insiders" would be capable of messing up the entire system.

And it could be very difficult to find the culprits, or to even prove that this is what happened.

I'm suggesting this because:

1)this has been a boon to the Republicans

2)there are a lot of crazies in this world

3)the system should have been fixed.....I believe it will
be fixed soon....but why did this happen?

If Sebelius was the moron some want to portray her as, I would think that HHS would be a hopeless shambles way before the ACA came into the picture.

Jack

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1908010 of 1947221
Subject: Re: A Crazy Thought Date: 10/31/2013 12:50 PM
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Looking at political opponents as scapegoats in this mess is cheesy.

Perhaps. But it is not too difficult to imagine that a few "insiders" would be capable of messing up the entire system.

And it could be very difficult to find the culprits, or to even prove that this is what happened.

I'm suggesting this because:

1)this has been a boon to the Republicans

2)there are a lot of crazies in this world

3)the system should have been fixed.....I believe it will
be fixed soon....but why did this happen?

If Sebelius was the moron some want to portray her as, I would think that HHS would be a hopeless shambles way before the ACA came into the picture.

Jack

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1908013 of 1947221
Subject: Re: A Crazy Thought Date: 10/31/2013 12:51 PM
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I'm suggesting this because:
_____________________________________

LMAO

You are suggesting it because

Anything you try rational after that is realllllly funny thanks

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Author: jdp245 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1908050 of 1947221
Subject: Re: A Crazy Thought Date: 10/31/2013 2:34 PM
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Also an expensive policy that would be called a PPO but only covers 70 percent of costs, 30 percent of a million dollars is 300,000 plus the deductible(and that's every year).

All the ACA policies that I have seen have out of pocket maximums. Am I missing something in your example?

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Author: Stonewashed Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1908052 of 1947221
Subject: Re: A Crazy Thought Date: 10/31/2013 2:36 PM
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All the ACA policies that I have seen have out of pocket maximums. Am I missing something in your example?
______________________________

Only "in network". Most likely both you and me are missing something, because there is nothing really to look at yet. Not really.

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Author: jdp245 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1908097 of 1947221
Subject: Re: A Crazy Thought Date: 10/31/2013 4:36 PM
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Only "in network".

Well, there is an easy solution there. If you have high care costs and cannot afford your out-of-network co-insurance, then go in network.

Most likely both you and me are missing something, because there is nothing really to look at yet. Not really.

I have found detailed information in New York, but they set up their own exchange (and appear to have done a very good job). It is tougher to find information about plans in some states that use Healthcare.gov. I have found more detailed info about exchange plans on some health insurance company web sites in those states.

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Author: Stonewashed Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1908103 of 1947221
Subject: Re: A Crazy Thought Date: 10/31/2013 5:23 PM
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Well, there is an easy solution there. If you have high care costs and cannot afford your out-of-network co-insurance, then go in network.

What if the network is very limited and 50 miles from your house, even though there are providers closer to your house that aren't included in the exchange?

I have found detailed information in New York, but they set up their own exchange (and appear to have done a very good job). It is tougher to find information about plans in some states that use Healthcare.gov. I have found more detailed info about exchange plans on some health insurance company web sites in those states.

Is that right. I just went to their website, clicked on "employer" and typed in a valid zipcode


Attention:

We are experiencing intermittent problems with the availability of Federal Services data. Should you encounter difficulty processing your request, you may wish to return to the Marketplace later. We regret the inconvenience.


https://nystateofhealth.ny.gov/employer/

Same thing happened at 4am only they said they would have that data available at 8 am

Here are your options in the mean time
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/26/your-money/health-insuranc...

Or you can go to a cupcake store or car service, if you want to waste even more time

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/VoteUp/2013/10/30/...

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Author: Stonewashed Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1908166 of 1947221
Subject: Re: A Crazy Thought Date: 11/1/2013 6:26 AM
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It's a crazy thought, but not a unique one. Heard it before the system went online. Frankly, if true (which is doubtful) it would still undermind the administration for setting up a system with so many security flaws that could happen.

Besides, the problem with O-care isn't the website. that's just the distraction from the Left. They want people paying attention to that so they are paying attention to the people losing insurance or suffering rate hikes.

So far more people have lost insurance since Oct 1, than have gained it. That's something the administration doesn't want being made public. And why nobody from the administration will release the number of people who have enrolled.
________________

Well, that and a few other things.

Think of all the money CGI is going to make on change orders. And, what really is behind that curtain will be kept hidden, until such time the upcoming election is over.
http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials-obama-care/102813-6...

Nice wedding gift.

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Author: jdp245 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1908190 of 1947221
Subject: Re: A Crazy Thought Date: 11/1/2013 9:13 AM
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What if the network is very limited and 50 miles from your house, even though there are providers closer to your house that aren't included in the exchange?

What if? You are assuming failure in your hypothetical. The question isn't what if. The question should be whether this has happened.

Is that right. I just went to their website, clicked on "employer" and typed in a valid zipcode

Worked for me just now. And their site worked for me well enough to get the information provided in this chain:

http://boards.fool.com/my-obamacare-experience-30930626.aspx...

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Author: kenm47 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1908192 of 1947221
Subject: Re: A Crazy Thought Date: 11/1/2013 9:23 AM
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The kerfuffles over the website will soon fade from memory.

For example, the new Republican stunts in blocking Presidential appointments are/will be the new hot topic.

Ken

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Author: jdp245 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1908193 of 1947221
Subject: Re: A Crazy Thought Date: 11/1/2013 9:27 AM
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Even more info. On the New York site, I was able to look at plan details for an employer plan through Oxford (United HealthCare's small business plans) and find that one plan I chose at random was a "Liberty" plan. I was then able to look online at the Oxford website and confirm that my current doctor is in the "Liberty" network.

Perhaps some insurers do not provide as detailed of information about their networks, but I am finding this pretty easy with the established insurers. I was also able to do this in Florida with Blue Cross/Blue Shield plans, and Florida is on Healthcare.gov. This all took me about 10 minutes.

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Author: Stonewashed Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1908194 of 1947221
Subject: Re: A Crazy Thought Date: 11/1/2013 9:32 AM
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What if? You are assuming failure in your hypothetical. The question isn't what if. The question should be whether this has happened.

I already showed you factually, not hypothetically how that works. How could it have happened yet, when it isn't in effect yet. You should be asking yourself, why is is set up that way when it does take effect.

Worked for me just now. And their site worked for me well enough to get the information provided in this chain:


Oh, well, then by all means it worked for you, it has worked for everyone, despite evidence to the contrary, that I showed you yesterday, not to mention the erroneous doughnut shops listed "to go get help".

FYI one does not need to give up all your personal information on the exchange to get the scoop. If one clicks on the pdf summary of providers, and blows it up big enough to read it, one can go to those carriers directly and get "a quote" or even read the rate on the pdf file for a few scenarios. If one does that it becomes apparent really fast the geographic restrictions imposed on the policies supported by the exchange.

And Some of the are downright hillarious. Independent will pay you to eat foods from certain grocery stores. Wonder how much they are making on that. Of course, if you can't read English or Russian, you are SOL.

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Author: jdp245 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1908210 of 1947221
Subject: Re: A Crazy Thought Date: 11/1/2013 10:10 AM
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I already showed you factually, not hypothetically how that works.

No, you said "What if the network is very limited and 50 miles from your house, even though there are providers closer to your house that aren't included in the exchange?" That is a hypothetical. If you are claiming that this is your personal experience, then you did not make yourself clear in your post.

If one does that it becomes apparent really fast the geographic restrictions imposed on the policies supported by the exchange.

How is this any different from the HMOs that so many people are in already?

I can understand the frustration if you had a PPO plan and are now getting shoved into an HMO plan by the insurance company. It is not clear to me why insurance companies appear to be offering different types of plans in different states. In some states you can find plenty of individual purchase PPO plans. In others, not so much.

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Author: Stonewashed Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1908223 of 1947221
Subject: Re: A Crazy Thought Date: 11/1/2013 10:58 AM
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No, you said "What if the network is very limited and 50 miles from your house, even though there are providers closer to your house that aren't included in the exchange?" That is a hypothetical. If you are claiming that this is your personal experience, then you did not make yourself clear in your post.

Actually, I gave a specific insurance company as an example, I found listed on the pdf file at the NYS Exchange, Independent.

I can understand the frustration if you had a PPO plan and are now getting shoved into an HMO plan by the insurance company. It is not clear to me why insurance companies appear to be offering different types of plans in different states. In some states you can find plenty of individual purchase PPO plans. In others, not so much.

I am not getting shoved into anything yet. Our policy doesn't expire until April. It's the people whose policies that are expiring in December that are getting shoved into something they weren't counting on and at a lot more cost.

The PPO I am in now encourages one use the network first, that's not the problem. The problem now is ascertaining who has been excluded from certain networks, depending on the plan, even within the same company. For example, when I look up Stony Brook University Hospital within your Liberty Plan, it really only participates for ER or certain departments, like pathology.

To keep that PPO feature has gotten very, very iffy.

My biggest complaint is the sticker shock most people are going to get. In NY at least individuals are getting something better at less cost than before, even though it's still way more expensive than a group. Moreover, those who get thrown into the individual market, should their employer say "to the hell with it" are in for a very rude awakening.

Moreover, moreover, nothing is simpler, nothing is cheaper and clarification is in short supply.

I am going to sit back and watch the fall out for now.

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