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Author: francessa Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 550  
Subject: a quote to be discussed Date: 4/6/2002 10:21 AM
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Let's revive this board by one of Oscar's famous quotes:

"In love, one always begins by deceiving oneself, and one always ends by deceiving others, that is what the world calls romance."

What do you think of this one?

francessa
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Author: Carajillo Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 511 of 550
Subject: Re: a quote to be discussed Date: 4/8/2002 7:39 PM
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I like it, but it is sad too. Sad because there is a lot of truth to it for the person who does not know how to love. For as much as a I marvel at the quality and genius of Wilde's writing, I found him to be not a very likable person. I get the sense that his mother was very demanding of the children and emotionally distant as was his father. I think OW, with his own fragile ego needing soothing, was emotionally absent from his children and pretty much disrepectful of his wife. His wife Constance is an intriquing person as to her motivations.

In addition OW self destructed and it was unnecessary. Perhaps his judgement was impaired by his heavy drinking.

It is sad that he could not know love beyond his surface infatuation with pretty boy Lord Alfred Douglas, or as the object of sycophants.



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Author: Carajillo Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 512 of 550
Subject: Re: a quote to be discussed Date: 4/8/2002 7:40 PM
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Francessa,

That's probably not what you had in mind when you suggested "reviving" the board. Sorry.

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Author: francessa Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 513 of 550
Subject: Re: a quote to be discussed Date: 4/9/2002 2:15 AM
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That's probably not what you had in mind when you suggested "reviving" the board.

Nononono, Carajillo, that's all right. I'm really interested in OW and I would not want to leave out the darker sides of his life. I found your remarks very interesting, they make a lot of sense.

francessa

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Author: Carajillo Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 514 of 550
Subject: Re: a quote to be discussed Date: 4/9/2002 8:06 AM
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Very well then, carrying on with the dark side.

OW was largely estranged from his brother who was an alcoholic and his mother was most likely a heavy drinker/alcoholic. His father was knighted. Both his parents were remarkable in their pursuits and achievements in science and art. If creative intellect is inherited, OW had an excellent pedigree. But I think also it was the environment (they had regular activities at the Wilde house in Dublin where writers and scientists would attend. In fact Bram Stoker was a contemporary of OW's who would attend these gatherings) and expectations created by OW's mother in particular that may have helped spur him along.

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Author: francessa Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 515 of 550
Subject: Re: a quote to be discussed Date: 4/9/2002 4:52 PM
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Having spent lots of time in Ireland I'd also suspect that for a person with such a significant background Dublin and the Irish writers are the environment providing so much fertility and stimulation that the product can only be a genius.

francessa

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Author: Carajillo Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 516 of 550
Subject: Re: a quote to be discussed Date: 4/10/2002 8:17 PM
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Francessa,

It's genius at its core, in my opinion. I'm not sure there is any studies to suggest that genius is hereditary but if there were and OW were the only subject, one would conclude that it was.

Lump on top of this core genius what is, in my opinion, inappropriate parenting, resulting in a broken and searching heart that created a void that was partially filled only by acquiring the adoration of others; mix it up with exposure to other great scientific and artistic minds of the time, with a fabulous schooling in the classics and a near photographic memory and you have the recipe for what must surely be some of the great artisitic expressions in the history of the English Language. (And perhaps the french language since Salome was written in french and translated by Lord Alfred Douglas some time after OW's passing. So maybe Bosie wasn't such a pure snot afterall but it wouldn't surprise me if his motives were selfish).

Let's not be decieved. This stew of creative genius had a notably bitter taste when one considers how OW disregarded the interests of his wife and children in the interests of his own. It's tragic as well as irresponsible.

The tragedy is what must have been a torment that he felt inside and tried to subdue with absinthe. He was never really able to make a relationship work, most notably the one with himself.

I wish life had given to this artist in proportion to the lovely art that he left for eternity.

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Author: MizBlue Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 520 of 550
Subject: Re: a quote to be discussed Date: 4/12/2002 1:11 PM
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Much truth in the statement imo, Francessa.
-Luv,
Mizzie

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Author: MizBlue Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 521 of 550
Subject: Re: a quote to be discussed Date: 4/12/2002 1:15 PM
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It is my opinion, Cara, that Wilde was in love with
Art and no human can provide what it does --
and this was the root of Wilde's unhappiness.
-Luv,
Mizzie

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Author: Carajillo Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 524 of 550
Subject: Re: a quote to be discussed Date: 4/12/2002 6:05 PM
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Mizzie,

That is an amazing comment you have made. It is succintly done and filled with meaning. You should consider writing poetry.

Last night I went to a promotion\talk by Edward Hirsch who is a professor of literature, poet and author. His latest book is seeking this thing he calls, (taken from Lorca) the "duende" in art. It is this mystical quality that makes some art great.

Your comment made me wonder if art is beautiful because the person consuming it has the ability to conform it somewhat to their vision of beauty. Its meaning or influence exists entirely in the mind of the beholder. It is under the control of the viewer.

Other people are never really under the control of other people. Humanity will never truly conforms to a mortals desire. That is disappointing to us all. But as we can find the beauty in a lyric or an image so we can find it in our lovers and our foes. The demon gives context to the angel. Without the demon, the angel is ordinary. The deeper one knows the demon, the more beautiful becomes the angel. I think OW and artists in general are more acquainted with darkness than most. That is why they can portray the near ordinary as something wonderful. But it is a dangerous place.

I'm not sure OW knew true love. I haven't sensed that in his writings. They seem constantly seeking to explain something with the intellect. They seem to run from both terror and elation. Some have suggested that Dorian Gray is somewhat autobiographical. I think it accurate. Destroyed by obsessing over one's self.

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Author: MizBlue Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 526 of 550
Subject: Re: a quote to be discussed Date: 4/19/2002 4:42 AM
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You're very generous and kind, Carajillo, and I thank
you.
I've been writing poetry all my life and have out
a CD ("Knight Flights") with poetry on it.
The subject of Beauty is one of deep interest to me
since I appreciate and believe in it -- inner as well
as outer Beauty. It is akin to Truth, Goodness and all
higher manifestations, visible and invisible.
Plato's writings on Beauty are particularly meaningful
to me.
I agree with you that artists generally have
Darkness as a familiar acquaintance. The more enduring
artistic expressions seem to spring from deeper emotions,
and alas, most of the times, the emotions are on the
shadow side. Few experience the same depth of intensity
in joyousness.

Yes, I too believe OW's Dorian Gray was based upon
his own life.
-Luv,
Mizzie

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Author: MrRobot Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 528 of 550
Subject: Re: a quote to be discussed Date: 4/23/2002 3:54 PM
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"In love, one always begins by deceiving oneself, and one always ends by deceiving others, that is what the world calls romance."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I believe Oscar Wilde's views on love are a bit tainted by his own personal experiences with it.

We can deceive ourselves into believing just about anything. However, a true heart in love would have eyes and mind opened wide to the beauty and 'realness' of the emotion. For it comes not from the heart, but from the soul, and therein cannot be deceived.

Arthur Conan Doyle, a good friend of Oscar's, would also have disagreed with his quote. He fancied himself quite a chivalrous gentleman completely devoted to the idea of 'trueness' in love. It's elementary my dear Watson! (He actually never wrote that.)

M.R. (Real passion effects true love;~)

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Author: ColonelLawrence Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 536 of 550
Subject: Re: a quote to be discussed Date: 10/23/2002 4:02 PM
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Let's revive this board by one of Oscar's famous quotes:

"In love, one always begins by deceiving oneself, and one always ends by deceiving others, that is what the world calls romance."

What do you think of this one?

francessa



To love oneself is the beginning of a lifelong romance.

We live in an age that reads too much to be wise.

Only the shallow know themselves.

L.

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