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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 18379  
Subject: A123 battery bankrupt Date: 10/16/2012 11:16 AM
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Electric Car Battery Maker A123 Systems Files Bankruptcy

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-16/electric-car-batter...



another one of Obama's losers that cost us a trillion dollars in green porkulus....... all borrowed from China...



Obama - great at picking losers one right after the other.


Did he have one 'green' success yet?



t.
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Author: colleran Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 18039 of 18379
Subject: Re: A123 battery bankrupt Date: 10/16/2012 9:19 PM
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As the Obama Administration has said, they knew that they were making risky investments. In the case of A123, it is worth noting that Johnson Controls is picking up their auto battery plants as well as the intellectual property behind them. The plants will continue to produce batteries. You could make a case that the money that went to A123 will help Johnson get a bigger foothold in advanced batteries. I think the jury is still out.

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Author: DDHv Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 18040 of 18379
Subject: Re: A123 battery bankrupt Date: 10/16/2012 9:23 PM
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I have been following a John Petersen, who seems to be making a good analysis of the battery industry. Bought a bit of what he liked. A123 is one he didn't.

Might be worth examining for anyone interested in the sector. I'm following his articles on "Seeking Alpha."

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Author: pauleckler Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 18042 of 18379
Subject: Re: A123 battery bankrupt Date: 10/17/2012 5:54 PM
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Hey Telegraph, I'd be interested in your views on what govt can do to stimulate employment in manufacturing.

From your libertarian perspective, I presume you think free markets should do it. So we should mostly be patient.

You can easily understand govt favoring construction projects to stimulate employment. Roads and bridges have always been govt funded, and various groups lobby for those projects.

Manufacturing is more difficult. If govt decides to build washing machines, Whirlpool, GE, and their unions would scream. So govt must work with opportunities where business needs help rather than strong industry leaders. That usually means new business lines like Solyndra or A123. They are high risk businesses because they depend on markets developing on the scale anticipated.

There is always the Nazi approach. Contract to build military weapons.

Do you prefer tax cuts and the old trickle down approach?

Do you favor tariffs or barriers to imports?

How would President Telegraph stimulate employment?

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 18043 of 18379
Subject: Re: A123 battery bankrupt Date: 10/21/2012 6:44 PM
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"You can easily understand govt favoring construction projects to stimulate employment. Roads and bridges have always been govt funded, and various groups lobby for those projects."

No.

The first roads were often PRIVATELY built. The first roads were 'turnpikes', constructed by private individuals and you had to pay a 'toll' to use them. At the end were 'pikes' ...when you paid your toll, the pike was 'turned' 90 degrees to let you pass. That's where the term turnpike came from.

There were lots of STATE built toll roads. The West Virginia Turnpike, the NY Turnpike, the PA turnpike, the OH Turnpike, The Indiana Tollroad, the IL tollroad, the OK Tollroad, the NJ Turnpike....and on and on.

As Obama said 'You didn't build that'. A lot of roads were built after that at taxpayer expense. Much of it STATE money.

It wasn't till after WW2 that the gov't step up, FOR MILITARY reasons. to built the interstate. After WW2 it was seen we had no way to move troops, tanks, and equipment cross country or anywhere.....and during the Cold War...it became a priority.

A lot of the 'road construction' is merely pork. IT requires the HIHGEST PRICE wages due to the Davis BAcon act - 'highest prevailing wage'......ie, artificially high prices by 30-100%.

President Telegraph would instantly kill the DAvis Bacon Act so we would get twice as much road for our dollars.


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" If govt decides to build washing machines, Whirlpool, GE, and their unions would scream."


And they should. So should Ford, that didn't take a dime in bailout. And BMW and VW and Hyundai and TOyota and Mazda and all the others who build millions of cars in this country. BUt that didn't happen.

The gov't has NO BUSINESS being in the business of business.

President Tele would see that only 'research money' is spent by DARPA to fund the latest technology, but not a single plant would get funded. Nada. ZIppo.

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" So govt must work with opportunities where business needs help rather than strong industry leaders. '

Ha..spoken like a true big government progressive. Nope. If they fail, they fail. If no one will back them, there is no business case. Period.

Look no further than the Volt....the only ones sold are to the government, and they are going to wonderful places like the Embasssy in Vienna, which doesn't have a GM service center within 8000 miles to fix it if anything goes wrong, and they had to pay $105,000 to have their charging station put in. That money would have paid for 3 full time security folks in Benghazi to protect the Ambassador.

You really think that 'helping' GM make cars as unwanted as the Edsel is worth borrowing a trillion from the Chinese that your kids and grandkids will pay the interest on for the next 100 years?


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"That usually means new business lines like Solyndra or A123. They are high risk businesses because they depend on markets developing on the scale anticipated."

The markets developed. They picked the wrong technology or had products that could not compete.

Not only those two, but 32 others failed.

Obama has a near perfect record of picking LOSERS out of possible 'winners and losers'. Nearly 100% fail.

And like we noted, the Volt is as popular as the Edsel.......

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"Do you favor tariffs or barriers to imports?"

Only if the Chinese are massively subsidizing their industries. IT's not like we didn't subsidize our solar panel makers, right? heh heh....

We're just as 'guilty' of throwing billions at 'new technologies'. However, ours have failed at nearly 100% rate.

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"How would President Telegraph stimulate employment?"

Redo the tax code

1) do away with income tax, payroll tax, corporate tax, excise taxes and estate tax. And all the deductions, loop holes, etc.

The current system distorts the market. Causes folks to make uneconomic decisions based upon the 'tax code' (like giant houses with deductible interest and taxes). Same for business. 99% of the tax code is defining loopholes and deductions and 'income'.

2) Substitute a National sales tax. About 20-22%.

That taxes the 'shadow economy' which is maybe 15-20% of the GDP.

Every family gets a prebate.

I think Scott Burns lays it out perfectly in his book.

3) Everyone gets a vouncher for Medicare - starting at about $8500 a ear. It entitles you to buy basic healthcare. You want a policy covering heart transplants , etc, you pay more.


YOu need to get the government off the back of industry. I'd chop the EPA in half and make sure it was there to foster new business, not destroy it. I'd chop the education department with its 80 useless programs.

I'd chop food stamps by 50% in the next five years.

t.




t.

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