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Author: PsycDoc One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 308542  
Subject: About being "scum" Date: 6/4/2002 7:25 PM
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Although I've been a registered "fool" for a few years, I've not posted until recently. Unfortunately my entreé here was a summary of the clearly debatable issue of credit "repair."

Although I fully expected a debate on the merits, ethics, and morality of challenging negative but correct credit report tradelines, I didn't expect (and maybe I should have) the ad hominem attacks which followed. Among other things I was pronounced a likely adulterer, a thief, and scum -- three epithets which (I am grateful to report) aren't accurate.

Before I simply go away, I would like to ask a few questions of anyone who is willing to take the time to reply.

1) Am I being overly sensitive about this? My wife just told me not to let a bunch of strangers on a computer bulletin board ruin my day, lol. On the other hand, if I would like to participate in this community, shouldn't I accord some import to the judgments of my peers here?

2) Are the bad feelings I have inspired fairly universal among this group? (If yes, I suppose the answers to question 1 are inconsequential because I clearly should just leave now, lol.)

3) Is it typical for participants here to engage in name-calling when they disagree like that? Surely, I'm not a special case. (I just read this to my wife, lol, and she said, "Yes you are sweetie. You're a special case of narcissism. It's all about you.") Seriously, doesn't anyone here see the scumminess associated with name-calling and attacking others? Or do I -- as someone who acknowledged challenging negative but correct credit report items -- have a lock on scumminess?

4) We are all paid participants here. I bought a two-year membership earlier this year when the Gardner brothers offered that special. As a long fan of The Motley Fool, and as a paying customer as well, am I seriously unwelcome here?

I guess that's it. I certainly did not ask for praise. Indeed, I knew that my posting would inspire debate, but I hoped that it would help someone regardless. What I did not expect were the personal insults and wild speculations about other areas of my life.

Doc
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Author: exeter17 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 128985 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/4/2002 7:43 PM
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Am I the only one that thought what PsychDoc did was funny? Come on - you shun him as you righteously (or self righteously) think is acceptable but honestly, how many of you would do it, if you could get away with it?????

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Author: maureenkaplan Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 128988 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/4/2002 7:50 PM
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::sigh:: You got hit by the rabids. They didn't pay attention to your arguments, failed to see the distinctions you were making, etc. I'm on the fence about what you did - because you paid off the debts, I'm not entirely sure how very different your methods are from those who "settle" and get tradelines removed - which has gotten *applause* on this board. On one hand, you may have "lied" to the Credit Reporting Agencies, on the other, you didn't actually do much "damage", because you paid the debts plus the interest. The "worst" thing you probably did (and the thing that probably set people off!) was praise LizardKing... ::grin:: I think that some people *did* think you were advocating ditching your debts. (We get a lot of that from new people, and so we're oversensitive about it.)

Anyway, no, the "bad feelings" aren't universal.

No, we're not usually into name-calling on this board - it's been a bad week from what I can tell! Almost everyone's been hit (even Wild!). However, it's gotten more frequent since the pay-to-play hit... probably because we got a LOT smaller.

Anyway, I hope you stick around.

Maureen

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Author: wildgirl Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 128990 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/4/2002 7:53 PM
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Hey we are a nice board!

I hope you don't go and post on Living Below! They dress in NOMEX suits.

I think what the fundamental problem is.. leaving the capital letters behind, is that you protest a little too much.

Why are you so quick to rise to your defense that this indeed did happen to your credit score?

At the very real risk of being flippant, you could have worked more and brought enough money to pay your debts other than posting and posting about what you did, who you saw, how they responded, named all the names, and just well I don't know..

What exactly did you do? Did you pay the bills off? I have one small collection a 5 year old note for under<200 dollars. I have a perfect rating with 10+ accounts. All are current. None have nor will ever be paid late. Some are close to the ceiling. That hurts me according to FICO. I have to bring the ratio down. I understand this.

I have recently had two collection accounts drop off my score. I saw no big difference.

What are you in plain English, trying to sell us here? This very well may have happened to you. I don't believe a word of it, but that is my personal opinion. I know the CRA's are slow to move.

Oh, I nearly forgot.. some of us have FOOL scholarships in lieu of membership fees this year. Now the park kids are yelling.. I'm off to get some fresh air.

Don't show your @ss and you will be fine.

wild :)

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Author: fredinseoul Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 128992 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/4/2002 7:57 PM
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FWIW, IMNSHO

1. I think you are being sensitive. But, I've been posting on TMF for about 2 years. While this board did challenge you and, may have gone overboard, it is actually quite nice here, compared to some of the other boards. That may not make you feel better, but go post on the Political Assylum board for a while and then look at your replies here. You'll wonder what is the fuss.

2. No, I don't have bad feelings about your post. I don't agree with the ethics of them, but this is a place to share ideas. This board, among all the others that I read(aboout 12), is most focused on the right and wrong of debt repayment. As a general rule, the board feels that if you incurred the debt, you should pay it off. The board also feels, generally, that the companies will stick it to you and that you should protect yourself. This line of thought is one of the reasons that I don't reccomend using credit counseling serives. You ran up the debt, you should pay it off. You can pay off debt yourself. Some people on the board have experiences with credit agencies making illegal calls and demands and statements. Perhaps it is hard to accuse them of illegal actiosn when what you are doing is similarily questionable. Most here would draw the line at taking off incorrect listings on your credit report. Most.

3. You are not scummy. You just hit a nerve and you just have a minority opinion. You are not so hated. There is a penalty box here on the Fool. I haven't read about anyone throwing you in the p-box. There was a poser named Lizardking or somesuch, now, this poster was truly reviled. People bragged about how fast they p-boxed this poster. I didn't like LK's style, but he/she did offer some solid advice, if you could get through the nasty style he/she had.

4. Stick around. You make it interesting and that is why we are here. Down with group think.


fredinseoul
who would leave well enough alone on correct information, but would challenge incorrect entries

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Author: Windowseat Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 128994 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/4/2002 7:59 PM
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. I haven't read about anyone throwing you in the p-box

I don't always announce everything I do.

Psychdoc keeps emailing me. He can't get through any more.

Nancy

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Author: PsycDoc One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 128996 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/4/2002 8:12 PM
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Windowseat wrote:
>>> Psychdoc keeps emailing me.

Nancy, please clarify that for everyone. I responded to you twice on the board and made the mistake (I guess) of clicking the "E-Mail this Reply to the Author" box both times. You made it sound as if I have sent you a handful of emails.

When you said "I don't always announce everything I do," are you suggesting that you put me in the pbox (whatever that is)? Do you actually have the power to blackball me here? This is wild. For what it's worth, I did *not* click the reply-author box on this posting.

Doc

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Author: fredinseoul Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 128997 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/4/2002 8:19 PM
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you put me in the pbox (whatever that is)? Do you actually have the power to blackball me here

You see the smiley and unhappy face next to the poster's name? If you click the unhappy face, you p-box the person. You won't be able to read any post by that person, it is grayed out on the list. Some people like it.

fredinseoul
no p-boxed people

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Author: PsycDoc One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 128998 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/4/2002 8:21 PM
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Wildgirl, thanks for the friendly tone on your last post. As for protesting too much, LOL, well, I suppose that's my downfall. (You're a good student of psychodynamic theory, I see! Note that I prefer Anna Freud to her father, so "protesting too much" isn't something that I believe necessarily proves anything except the need to be accepted -- which of course may well indicate a problem as well, lol.)

Ok, since I've already protested too much, I may as well do it some more, LOL. Whenever I bought a FICO score at myfico.com or equifax.com, I captured the HTML so that I could review it later. Just now I uploaded that for you to review. (FICO doesn't include Social Security Numbers in their consumer reports, so I don't believe I am compromising my privacy to any great degree by making this public.) Anyway, here are those reports:

March 21, 2001: http://216.58.174.213/fico/2001-03-21.html
October 28, 2001: http://216.58.174.213/fico/2001-10-28.html
December 20, 2001: http://216.58.174.213/fico/2001-12-20.html
January 3, 2002: http://216.58.174.213/fico/2002-01-03.html
May 20, 2002: http://216.58.174.213/fico/2002-05-20.html

The latter data (post lawsuit) increase was due to some old unchallenged 7-year-old information that finally dropped off on its own.

I promise I didn't invent all of this just now in order to convince a stranger on a message board of its veracity. In short, I'm not selling anything. :)

Doc

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Author: wrnglrjan Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 128999 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/4/2002 8:23 PM
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When you said "I don't always announce everything I do," are you suggesting that you put me in the pbox (whatever that is)?

She probably did put you in her pbox. That means when you post a message on the boards, she doesn't see it. Everybody else still does. Nobody can "blackball" you. In fact, every single person that reads this board could p-box you and you would still be able to post. Nobody would read it, but you would be blissfully unaware. :)

For what it's worth, I did *not* click the reply-author box on this posting.

Well, then, she probably didn't see the message. Which is probably just as well.

A piece of advice? If it gets nasty, be "the bigger person" and just bow out. If somebody's really ticked off at what you said, defending yourself is only going to make it work. Letting it go is the only solution. Trust me on this one.

This is actually a pretty nice board. I'm surprised it got so out of hand, but I'm too new to know about "LizardKing". Everybody's got their "hot buttons" and it appears that you just got lucky on your first "try". :)

So. My advice is, sit quietly in the corner for a bit and follow the conversations. If you think you've got something useful to contribute (like to Wildgirl's school post - that was great!), do so, but be especially careful about stepping on people's feelings and morals for a bit. You know, behave for a while as if you got off on the wrong foot, which you did. You'll be fine.

Jan

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Author: PsycDoc One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129001 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/4/2002 8:25 PM
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Ok, I totally screwed up those links. So much for documentation. Here are the corrected ones:

March 21, 2001: http://209.26.140.39/fico/2001-03-21.html
October 28, 2001: http://209.26.140.39/fico/2001-10-28.html
December 20, 2001: http://209.26.140.39/fico/2001-12-20.html
January 3, 2002: http://209.26.140.39/fico/2002-01-03.html
May 20, 2002: http://209.26.140.39/fico/2002-05-20.html

Doc

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Author: PsycDoc One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129002 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/4/2002 8:28 PM
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wrnglrjan, exeter17, maureenkaplan, fredinseoul, wildgirl... I appreciated the kind words. I obviously would like to stick around (and as wildgirl pointed out, am working too hard to do so), so thanks again. wrnglrjan, I'll take your good advice.

Doc

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Author: OnlyARebel Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129006 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/4/2002 8:38 PM
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Anyway, I hope you stick around.

Maureen



I double concur




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Author: mlk58 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129007 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/4/2002 8:41 PM
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1. Yes, you are being over-sensitive. You plunged into this board (apparently) hoping to make a big splash, and things didn't go the way you thought they would. Just chill out for a while. Not EVERY post needs to be responded to.

2. I don't care about you enough to have bad feelings. At this point, I just think you're taking it all (and taking yourself) a tad too seriously. You would have been much better off if you hadn't tried to make quite such a big splash with your first post. Yeah, I know you didn't ask for praise, but you seem to have expected it.

3. Not really. The folks on LBYM can be real stinkers and I like to think of this board as kinder and gentler.

4. See #2, above. I don't think most of us care about you enough to make you "seriously unwelcome."

mlk58
repeat after me: "It's only the internet... it's only the internet..."

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Author: OnlyARebel Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129009 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/4/2002 8:42 PM
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fredinseoul
who would leave well enough alone on correct information, but would challenge incorrect entries


Very well done!


Reb
all out of rec's today but will give tomorrow!





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Author: OnlyARebel Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129011 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/4/2002 8:46 PM
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. I haven't read about anyone throwing you in the p-box

I don't always announce everything I do.

Psychdoc keeps emailing me. He can't get through any more.

Nancy



The p-box sure beats name calling






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Author: Windowseat Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129013 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/4/2002 8:52 PM
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who would leave well enough alone on correct information, but would challenge incorrect entries

Oh, I always challenge incorrect information.

Nancy

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Author: utahtea Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129015 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/4/2002 8:57 PM
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1) Am I being overly sensitive about this? My wife just told me not to let a bunch of strangers on a computer bulletin board ruin my day, lol. On the other hand, if I would like to participate in this community, shouldn't I accord some import to the judgments of my peers here?

I'm sorry I was hard on you. Maybe if what we said bothers you so much then maybe you really aren't so proud of how you went about fixing your credit score.

2) Are the bad feelings I have inspired fairly universal among this group? (If yes, I suppose the answers to question 1 are inconsequential because I clearly should just leave now, lol.)

Nah, there's always going to be a dead beat that will recommend your post <evil grin>

3) Is it typical for participants here to engage in name-calling when they disagree like that? Surely, I'm not a special case. (I just read this to my wife, lol, and she said, "Yes you are sweetie. You're a special case of narcissism. It's all about you.") Seriously, doesn't anyone here see the scumminess associated with name-calling and attacking others? Or do I -- as someone who acknowledged challenging negative but correct credit report items -- have a lock on scumminess?

Sometimes (not that often on the Credit Card Board) we do get a bit carried away with out really knowing the person. As someone mentioned don't go to the LBYM's board without your flame-retartant suit on!


4) We are all paid participants here. I bought a two-year membership earlier this year when the Gardner brothers offered that special. As a long fan of The Motley Fool, and as a paying customer as well, am I seriously unwelcome here?

I also got one year free but paid for two more so I'm going to be around for three years. If you do decide to cancel I think you can get a prorated amount back. I would give us another chance.

I think we got off on the wrong foot. I would like to introduce myself. I'm Utahtea, I'm usually a nice person.

Utahtea








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Author: CassWoman Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129017 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/4/2002 9:00 PM
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Before I simply go away, I would like to ask a few questions of anyone who is willing to take the time to reply.

Don't go away! Just because a few posters have disagreed with your actions does NOT mean that you should go away. It only means that a few posters have disagreed with you. The vast majority of people probably don't feel strongly about it one way or the other, and so they remain silent, as I did, until now.

1) Am I being overly sensitive about this? My wife just told me not to let a bunch of strangers on a computer bulletin board ruin my day, lol. On the other hand, if I would like to participate in this community, shouldn't I accord some import to the judgments of my peers here?

Again, they are disagreeing with you -- don't take it personally. There are some posters here who were absolutely vilified when they first started posting who are now board favorites and are highly respected for their advice.

2) Are the bad feelings I have inspired fairly universal among this group? (If yes, I suppose the answers to question 1 are inconsequential because I clearly should just leave now, lol.)

No, the bad feelings are not universal. Do I agree with what you did? I'm not sure. Would I do the same thing? Again, not sure. What is more important to me is that you PAID your debt, not what your credit score says or how you repaired it. Others on this board have recommended the same tactics as you and have not been reamed. It is legal, certainly. The ethics of it seem to be what is debatable, and it definitely isn't up to me to judge another's actions. We're all human, and I'm sure that those who are throwing stones have not always behaved impeccably. (That's not a judgment call, just acknowledging that we are all imperfectly human!)


3) Is it typical for participants here to engage in name-calling when they disagree like that? Surely, I'm not a special case. (I just read this to my wife, lol, and she said, "Yes you are sweetie. You're a special case of narcissism. It's all about you.") Seriously, doesn't anyone here see the scumminess associated with name-calling and attacking others? Or do I -- as someone who acknowledged challenging negative but correct credit report items -- have a lock on scumminess?

Sometimes, unfortunately, yes. I think it is a fact of internet life that people say things and make judgment calls about others that they would never DARE say to someone's face. It's easy to extrapolate about what else a person might be like based on a few pages of black text on a screen, and to make numerous, often innacurate assumptions that may or may not have a basis in reality. I believe that the rules of the Fool do call for civility, and calling someone names based on one action, or even a series of actions, of one's life tells ME more about the name caller than about the name callee. But that's my opinion.

4) We are all paid participants here. I bought a two-year membership earlier this year when the Gardner brothers offered that special. As a long fan of The Motley Fool, and as a paying customer as well, am I seriously unwelcome here?

Perhaps by a couple of posters, but I seriously doubt that they are the majority of the boards. If you were seriously unwelcome here, TMF would ban you. Unless that happens, or you FEEL unwelcome, then DO stick around, and DO participate.

I guess that's it. I certainly did not ask for praise. Indeed, I knew that my posting would inspire debate, but I hoped that it would help someone regardless. What I did not expect were the personal insults and wild speculations about other areas of my life.

I think that personal insults and wild speculations are best left unsaid altogether, by anyone.

My opinions about what you did to repair your credit are not fully formed, but I DO think that you have responded to the insults and speculations with quite a bit of aplomb and THAT, more than whatever ethical considerations there may be regarding your credit, shows your true colors to me more than anything.

Stick around. We can all use help in getting out of debt.

Cassandra
Fool since April 1998

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Author: OnlyARebel Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129018 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/4/2002 9:01 PM
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I think we got off on the wrong foot. I would like to introduce myself. I'm Utahtea, I'm usually a nice person.

Utahtea



Yes you are!
And our board is finally getting back on track.


Reb
outta rec's but marked for later

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Author: Fallout2Queen Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129019 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/4/2002 9:02 PM
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I'm on the fence about what you did - because you paid off the debts, I'm not entirely sure how very different your methods are from those who "settle" and get tradelines removed - which has gotten *applause* on this board. On one hand, you may have "lied" to the Credit Reporting Agencies, on the other, you didn't actually do much "damage", because you paid the debts plus the interest. The "worst" thing you probably did (and the thing that probably set people off!) was praise LizardKing... ::grin:: I think that some people *did* think you were advocating ditching your debts. (We get a lot of that from new people, and so we're oversensitive about it.)


Good summary.

FWIW, I still think it's wrong to use those methods to try and get CORRECT information removed from a credit report.



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Author: TMF2Aruba Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129021 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/4/2002 9:04 PM
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Hi Doc!

First of all, please don't go away. You write so articulately, and I have enjoyed your posts.

Now, what you need to know is that the folks here take this board very seriously, and I believe that some of the ideas throughout this thread may have been a bit misunderstood. :-)

As you read through the various threads and posts here, one common theme that you'll see encouraged is the need to get out from under, avoid debt, but most of all, to take responsibility for the situations that got you there in the first place, and especially the idea that what we do, we do honestly.

I "think" that somewhere along the lines of your original thoughts, it's likely that some folks construed something less than honest somewhere. While I haven't read that closely, I think it's entirely possible that your words may have been misinterpreted--at least that certainly appears to be how you see it, right?

You're wife is correct in that you surely don't want to get upset by posts made from "strangers". That's very correct. However, I'd toss out the idea that if you stick around, these fine Fools are going to soon become anything but strangers to you, and while some may seem to have tough exteriors, you'll discover that they are among the finest of individuals--and the sharpest--that you'll ever meet in cyberspace.

Here we often must agree to disagree, bear with a few flames here and there, and then move on. I'd ask that you give this a try and become a part of this community. Get to know us, and I'm sure you'll get to like us. :-)

I may not agree with every word you've written, but I certainly don't think you're scum, and I don't think too many others do either.

Whaddya say, Doc? :-)

Tony
...but I still am...

Off2Aruba

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Author: OnlyARebel Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129024 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/4/2002 9:09 PM
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I may not agree with every word you've written, but I certainly don't think you're scum, and I don't think too many others do either.

Whaddya say, Doc? :-)

Tony
...but I still am...

Off2Aruba



Hey Tony this deserves a rec but I'm all out and had to mark for reply later.


Fix this fisco will ya?


Reb:)

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Author: madmikeyd Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129025 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/4/2002 9:11 PM
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>Before I simply go away

No need to go away. Just do not ask me to respect what you did.

Cheers,
madmikeyd

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Author: MadamSnarkyPants Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129027 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/4/2002 9:24 PM
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I guess that's it. I certainly did not ask for praise. Indeed, I knew that my posting would inspire debate, but I hoped that it would help someone regardless. What I did not expect were the personal insults and wild speculations about other areas of my life.

Okay Doc, but you did say originally, "There will be many on this board who would level very fair criticisms against me for having no scruples and for suffering an ethical and moral lapse. Certainly, almost all of the tradelines that were cleared were CORRECT, and in all fairness I did not deserve for them to be removed. Regardless, I have not suffered a single moment of guilt. Perhaps I am a sociopath, I don't know. (And as a clinical psychologist, I hope that's not true, but I suppose all of us have an antisocial streak.) I certainly will agree with anyone who follows this post with an indictment of the lack of fairness, ethics, and moral character required to clean my credit files the way I have.

Truthfully, you kind of asked for it. This community is comprised of people who are here to pay their debt. In many cases, the folks here have forgone all luxuries in an effort to make good on said debt. There are also many people who actually have incorrect information on their credit reports, which has required much fighting for actual justice which, at times, has been painfully elusive. There is a lot of passion here, with good reason.

So, if you're going to start out by acknowledging that your behavior lacks ethics and morals, I would recommend donning your flame retardent suit first. Thicken thy skin.

Regards-
MSP






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Author: Barak0 Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129045 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/4/2002 11:24 PM
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FWIW, I still think it's wrong to use those methods to try and get CORRECT information removed from a credit report.

How is doing what he did (crazy letter) different from "I'll pay you if you remove the negative info"? They're both, essentially, a form of blackmail.

You (board generic you there) have lates and overdues and collections, and they're accurate, yet you want them to remove that information in exchange for being paid, and that's somehow better than threatening to sue them if they don't remove the info?

I just can't wrap my head around how some people here seem to think the one is ok and the other isn't.

Can anyone who thinks this way perhaps point out what I missed that makes it ok the one way but not the other?

B
Curious

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Author: Bweaver Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129046 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/4/2002 11:41 PM
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Truthfully, you kind of asked for it.

I respectfully disagree. While any individual poster's ideas may be attacked, personal attack just isn't called for. It's unecessary, inflamatory, and allows the best name-caller (as opposed to the best idea) an opportunity to carry the day.

Addressing defects in ideas, fallacious reasoning, alternatives, unethical or illegal behavior, lack of personal responsibility, failure to suffer or engage in appropriate penace, stubborness, denial, willful neglect, incompetence, poor grammar and spelling, shouting, misunderstanding, verbosity, or lack of clarity can all be done in terms of the IDEAS instead of the person.

The original poster offerred a strategy to increase credit scores that was resprented as effective. We can discuss the idea's merits (and lack thereof) easily without name-calling or attack.

For my money, clearing up accurate blemishes on one's credit record as described by the original poster is dishonest and would cost me much more in self-respect than I could possibly gain financially. I'm aware that not everyone shares that ethic and regret that I have to be wary of those that don't.

Plus, they're costing me money.

Good luck,

Bruce

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Author: WadaPhooliam Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129047 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/5/2002 12:01 AM
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2) Are the bad feelings I have inspired fairly universal among this group? (If yes, I suppose the answers to question 1 are inconsequential because I clearly should just leave now, lol.)

I haven't followed this thread quite as rigorously as some have (althought I have read most posts), but I find myself getting mighty irritated that you got your credit rating "repaired" essentially by being a royal pain in the tukhas (sp?) rather than maintaining a good rating by being a responsible user of credit.

Quite frankly, I find your tactics reprehensible simply because you refused to take responsibility for your own actions and instead threw up a smokescreen behind which you hid. I find it even more reprehensible because you are a "PsychDoc" for whom a rigorous intellectual, emotional and moral honesty should be a sine qua non of your personal as well as your professional life.

That being said, I definitely prefer myself to you.

3) Is it typical for participants here to engage in name-calling when they disagree like that? Surely, I'm not a special case. (I just read this to my wife, lol, and she said, "Yes you are sweetie. You're a special case of narcissism. It's all about you.") Seriously, doesn't anyone here see the scumminess associated with name-calling and attacking others? Or do I -- as someone who acknowledged challenging negative but correct credit report items -- have a lock on scumminess?

Not usually, but then you've been talking to people who either never got into credit trouble or who are working diligently to overcome their credit problems and doing so in an above board manner without challenging things that are legitimately their responsibility.

Assuming you are a clinical shrink, were I one of your clients and found out about this, I'd drop you like a hot potato because I would have grave doubts about your integrity.

Wada







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Author: WadaPhooliam Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129048 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/5/2002 12:04 AM
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Am I the only one that thought what PsychDoc did was funny? Come on - you shun him as you righteously (or self righteously) think is acceptable but honestly, how many of you would do it, if you could get away with it?????

I don't want to sound self-righteous about it, but there are people in the world who don't do things simply because they think they can get away with it.

Now if PsycDoc were to become a victim of identity theft, THAT would be funny.

Wada

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Author: OnlyARebel Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129049 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/5/2002 12:09 AM
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Assuming you are a clinical shrink, were I one of your clients and found out about this, I'd drop you like a hot potato because I would have grave doubts about your integrity.

Wada



Gosh is doc a clinical shrink?

I don't know about anyone else but after today I could use one.

How about Doc?

Reb :)

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Author: OnlyARebel Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129050 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/5/2002 12:10 AM
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Now if PsycDoc were to become a victim of identity theft, THAT would be funny.

Wada


How so?


In my ethic book I would not wish that on anyone!

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Author: WadaPhooliam Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129051 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/5/2002 12:28 AM
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Now if PsycDoc were to become a victim of identity theft, THAT would be funny.

Wada

How so?


In my ethic book I would not wish that on anyone!


I said that semi tongue-in-cheek. Nonetheless, it would be a case of the chickens coming home to roost as Doc would be fighting to remove incorrect information rather than changing correct information to his own advantage.

Some years ago someone managed to get our phone card information. We only found out about it when AT&T sent us a bill for nearly $10,000 in long distance calls (Ukraine, Pakistan, Estonia, Argentina, etc.). Fortunately, it was relatively easy to get rid of since it was obvious that multiple people were using the phone card info.

Wasa



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Author: Bweaver Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129052 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/5/2002 12:38 AM
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How is doing what he did (crazy letter) different from "I'll pay you if you remove the negative info"? They're both, essentially, a form of blackmail.

You (board generic you there) have lates and overdues and collections, and they're accurate, yet you want them to remove that information in exchange for being paid, and that's somehow better than threatening to sue them if they don't remove the info?

I just can't wrap my head around how some people here seem to think the one is ok and the other isn't.

Can anyone who thinks this way perhaps point out what I missed that makes it ok the one way but not the other?


Sure. One is an offer of payment for action that may be simply denied or accepted, neither at cost to the respondent. The other is a fraudulent threat which demands one of two responses, both at cost to the respondent: either acquiescence or a significant financial and time commitments to a legal defense if action is taken.

More simply put: One is conversation that that might provoke a child to react with "that's too bad they won't do what you want." The other is a legal proceeding to which a child might reasonably react by asking "isn't that lying, Daddy?"

I'd be interested to hear any explanations that might convince the child that the "fraudulent lawsuit credit repair strategy" is not lying. I'd also be interested to know how those seeing no problem with if have convinced yourselves. I suspect the "it's OK to lie when the repercussions to me are X, Y, and Z" will be the most popular argument.

When I see the explanation that will convince that child, I'll reconsider my ethics.

The fact that an action is legal, or that it is not worth defending a lawsuit over, does not impart any moral authority to that action. It just means it's legal and not worth fighting over. There is much that can all get away with. I'm glad most of us don't choose that path.

Good luck,

Bruce

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Author: neondeion Two stars, 250 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129070 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/5/2002 9:21 AM
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1) I think you are being overly sensitive. People are going to have differing opinions especially on the subject of money. Take it with a grain of salt. Also realize that some people may be quite harsh online just to get their points across.

2) No bad feelings here, I actually appreciated your candor.

3) Sometimes there can be a lot of name calling (on another board there was a much more pointed discussion in regards to Black History Month and suffice it to say there were some disagreements). Take it for what it's worth and certainly don't let it keep you up at night. There are a few very callous people out there who aren't particularly interested in in being polite.

4) I think you're taking things a little bit too hard.

-neondeion

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Author: neondeion Two stars, 250 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129074 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/5/2002 9:27 AM
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"What are you in plain English, trying to sell us here? This very well may have happened to you. I don't believe a word of it, but that is my personal opinion. I know the CRA's are slow to move."

Wild,

If you read some of Catherine Coy's posts on the buying a home board, she is very much in disagreement here. She claims that there are very quick ways to raise your scores including having all of your cards below 35% of the maximum. If asked she could probably provide you with info on getting CRA's to move more quickly. I think she called it an instant update or somethign to that effect, but you'll have to just scroll through her posts.

-neondeion

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Author: sturne01 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129075 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/5/2002 9:39 AM
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Doc:

First, please don't leave...and yes some posters take delight in running down others. This is one of the problems/opportunities with being anonymous. Don't take detractors seriously; we all carry baggage and some like to display it.



My $.02

Now back under my rock

Spence

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Author: PsycDoc One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129076 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/5/2002 9:42 AM
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There were so many responses that it would be tough to answer each one individually. Rather than rejoin the issue of credit "repair" or the debatable ethical grounding I demonstrated, let me instead just sincerely thank everyone who responded with civil criticism both positive and negative. I especially appreciated those of both camps who suggested that I was taking this board and myself a bit too seriously -- which is of course correct. Although I've participated on several bulletin boards through the years, I never before began such an association by drawing so much attention to myself -- a rhetorical style I certainly would not repeat, LOL. Needless to say, I experienced first-hand here why it's important to establish relationships (or their internet equivalent) before spewing controversial opinions at everyone. When you're not yet a "person," you're begging for depersonalization. To say I knew better certainly requires the follow-up "Then why did you do it?" -- and of course I have no answer. I guess I didn't know "better enough" if that's possible. Again, thanks for filling out the frame of reference for me. Net result: I see there are friendly people here (and even the not-so-friendly ones have toughened me up a bit), and I look forward to continued participation.

Doc

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Author: ramsfanray Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129079 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/5/2002 9:51 AM
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I missed what you did but from reading this thread I think I get the jist of it. If you found a way to LEGALLY remove negative info from your credit report, more power to you. There is no excuse for personally attacks. You may disagree with someone but personal attacks are wrong. There is a difference between saying an idea is stupid and saying a person is stupid. Since I don't know exactly what you did I can't comment on the idea. Only if it was illegal would I consider you to be stupid. Also I am not sure what all the talk about the LBYM board is. I am new to the Fool community but my first few days have been quite nice and very informative.

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Author: rah1420 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129082 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/5/2002 10:04 AM
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The P box is like the bozo bin (killfile) on some Usenet news readers. It filters your posts so the poster doesn't see them. If I don't like what you're saying I can put you in the p-box and as far as I'm concerned, you don't exist.

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Author: ishtarastarte Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129093 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/5/2002 11:42 AM
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I didn't reply in your earlier thread, because I, too am on the fence about some of the tactics used and figured, if I didn't have anything nice to say, I'd just stay out of it.

1) Am I being overly sensitive about this? My wife just told me not to let a bunch of strangers on a computer bulletin board ruin my day, lol. On the other hand, if I would like to participate in this community, shouldn't I accord some import to the judgments of my peers here?

Well, yes. It's just a message board, it's not real life. Cable666 sticks around, even though he skipped out on paying some of his ex-wife's debts. He knows the general sentiment around here, and sticks around to provide a counterpoint. You could do the same.

2) Are the bad feelings I have inspired fairly universal among this group? (If yes, I suppose the answers to question 1 are inconsequential because I clearly should just leave now, lol.)

In general, yeah, majority opinion. BUT NOT universal. As others have said, probably the biggest thing you did "wrong" was call our old friend LizardKing (spit, patooie) an inspiration. Many people probably didn't look beyond that and equated you with him. I'd say look up his post, but I think almost all of them were pulled; sometimes whole threads he participated in were pulled because of how abusive he got to people who advocate paying their bills.


3) Is it typical for participants here to engage in name-calling when they disagree like that? Surely, I'm not a special case. (I just read this to my wife, lol, and she said, "Yes you are sweetie. You're a special case of narcissism. It's all about you.") Seriously, doesn't anyone here see the scumminess associated with name-calling and attacking others? Or do I -- as someone who acknowledged challenging negative but correct credit report items -- have a lock on scumminess?

No, it's not typical of this board in particular, but this board does tend to have a high moral standard and doesn't like lying and will call people on that. *shrug*


4) We are all paid participants here. I bought a two-year membership earlier this year when the Gardner brothers offered that special. As a long fan of The Motley Fool, and as a paying customer as well, am I seriously unwelcome here?

Many people on this board have comp'd memberships, so, I for one am not a paying member. Of course you're welcome. Did you read for a while before posting to see what the general attitude on this board was before posting? You may have been able to anticipate the reaction to your initial post if you had.

I understand that you paid your bills, that's to the good. I also understand that you lied in some cases to have some truthful negative info removed from your reports. Here, and this may be unique in credit sites on the web, this is seen, largely, as a negative. BUT, you have provided information that may help people get INACCURATE info removed.

Stick around.

Ishtar





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Author: Leviathan Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129094 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/5/2002 11:44 AM
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Wow. I go out of town for four days and the board goes nuts...

Leviathan

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Author: ishtarastarte Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129095 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/5/2002 11:47 AM
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When you said "I don't always announce everything I do," are you suggesting that you put me in the pbox (whatever that is)? Do you actually have the power to blackball me here? This is wild. For what it's worth, I did *not* click the reply-author box on this posting.

Every person has their own personal "penalty box." What Nancy did was click the frowny face next to your name on one of your posts. Now, she doesn't see your posts or get your emails. The rest of us still do.

no big deal.

Now, I know that there are people who click "email to author" everytime they post. Personally, that drives me nuts. If responding to me, I'd really prefer that if you're putting it on the boards, DON'T also email me. If you're going to email me, make it something personal that can't be displayed on the boards, too. But that's me. Maybe Nancy feels the same way?

Ishtar



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Author: twitchycat Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129102 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/5/2002 11:59 AM
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Sorry, Doc, I didn't follow the original thread (and don't have the time to do so now), but I would go with your wife on this one. Diversity of opinion is important on these boards, so I'd urge you not to go away. Although it is very hard to do, don't take comments here that personally. If someone has a legitimate point that contradicts your stated opinions, I would hope you would consider it. For the rest of it, however, you don't know them and they don't know you. I'd hope folks would be above making rash personal judgements based upon the postings to the boards of one site.

No wonder doppels and trolls have so much fun.

-Danielle

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Author: MadamSnarkyPants Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129104 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/5/2002 12:01 PM
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Addressing defects in ideas, fallacious reasoning, alternatives, unethical or illegal behavior, lack of personal responsibility, failure to suffer or engage in appropriate penace, stubborness, denial, willful neglect, incompetence, poor grammar and spelling, shouting, misunderstanding, verbosity, or lack of clarity can all be done in terms of the IDEAS instead of the person.

Granted. I'll re-state. Whether or not OP asked for it, perhaps OP should have expected it. Consider the audience. I am not condoning personal attacks, nor to I generally choose to engage in them, but they do happen and I find them to be an understandable, if not optimal, human reaction. I would submit that since said attacks are coming from strangers, they should carry little weight with OP.

Regards,
MSP

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Author: ishtarastarte Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129110 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/5/2002 12:13 PM
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Wow. I go out of town for four days and the board goes nuts...

That'll teach you to leave! Where'd ya go? What did you do?

Ishtar
(living vicariously through others!)



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Author: Leviathan Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129116 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/5/2002 12:21 PM
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That'll teach you to leave! Where'd ya go? What did you do?

I was best man for my college roommate's wedding in Utah (yeah, there wasn't a whole lot of partying going on there). I had a blast anyway. It was cool for a boy from the low-lying areas of the US to walk out of the hotel and see mountains right outside the door. Also, I went to visit Temple Square, but mostly it was running around picking up tuxedos.

Leviathan

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Author: buckmizer Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129127 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/5/2002 1:02 PM
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I would not consider you "scum." There was considerable risk and time in everything you did. How about the label "predatory borrower"?

You didn't skip out on any debt (none that I saw--I admit I only skimmed the threads), and simply manuveured out to the "gotcha" charges.

You had the knowledge and background to fine tune your methods. You should put everything together in a book or article. I'll bet someone would buy it. As Obi-Wan Kenobi says, "the force works strong against weak minds."

Fred
"These aren't the droids you're looking for."

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Author: Wolfen42 Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129135 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/5/2002 1:50 PM
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Good summary.

FWIW, I still think it's wrong to use those methods to try and get CORRECT information removed from a credit report.


Why? One of those methods was to simply write a friendly letter asking them nicely. Sometimes that works.
Are you saying there is something questionable about paying off a debt
and asking them to remove the negative information?

Ed



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Author: joycets Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129140 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/5/2002 2:07 PM
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1) Am I being overly sensitive about this?
yes
2) Are the bad feelings I have inspired fairly universal among this group? I wouldn't say universal, but more than half, maybe 2/3 or 3./4
3) Is it typical for participants here to engage in name-calling when they disagree like that? Surely, I'm not a special case..
we are all special cases. Some are more nut cases & others are other cases. This list is a little less silly than some of the others. (try aruba's isle...)
4)well, am I seriously unwelcome here?
I don't think so

People have fun expressing opinions, let it roll off.
joycets

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Author: mugsy100 Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129158 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/5/2002 4:07 PM
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PsycDoc,
I appreciate your having taken the time to post; it's valuable to have a broad spectrum of experience on the board. Anybody is free to disagree with your approach, but the name-calling is really disturbing. Describing someone as "scum" is really vile. There is nothing like intolerance to choke off a free exchange of ideas.
Mugsy

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Author: TMF2Aruba Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129171 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/5/2002 4:50 PM
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Wow. I go out of town for four days and the board goes nuts...

Leviathan,

That'll teach you to stop leaving town!

Tony
...but I still am...

Off2Aruba

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Author: Crosenfield Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129180 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/5/2002 5:06 PM
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When you mentioned LizardKing in a favorable light, you were bound to generate a lot of heat and flames. I don't find much left of his threads, but to deliberately not pay one's just debts incurs a lot of disapproval here.
A CRA is supposed to provide a potential creditor of yours--a bank that might loan you money for a mortgage, for example--with a history of your previous use of credit. If anything negative on your credit report has been removed, when in fact it is accurate, and assuming that your credit history gives a legitimate basis for predicting how you will behave in the future, then this is dishonest. I've often wondered whether when a credit report in fact has been "laundered", on a basis of it a bank decides to grant a mortgage, give a car loan at a favorable rate, etc, and then the person does in fact default--again--whether, if all of this could be proved, does the bank that relied on that report have a case for fraud against the CRA?
It seems to me much better to fight to have anything removed that it not accurate; to write the allowed explanatory 100 words to be attached to any remaining derogatory information. "Yes I was late with a payment in 1998 but I had just moved, didn't get the bill, and was too carried away with all the excitement of the move to notice that it didn't come to my new address. When the bill arrived, I paid it immediately." That should dilute the accusation of the late payment.
Identity theft is worse. The bill wasn't yours. The non-payment wasn't your responsibility. The CRA should remove the inaccurate information. Or the one where father and son have the same name except for "Jr.". One's information is on the other's report. Correct the inaccurate information.
Where the person never heard of the collector and assumes maybe it might be right because during that period had been in a state of flux and could have missed most anything--dispute, challenge, and if the agency can come up with what the charge was for, then pay it.
LizardKing generated tremendous venom. You got some of it. But welcome to the board! Best wishes, Chris

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Author: LuluB Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129196 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/5/2002 6:39 PM
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You plunged into this board (apparently) hoping to make a big splash

Big splash? I disagree. He simply told his tale and people got in a snit because of it.

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Author: LuluB Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129198 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/5/2002 6:46 PM
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Oversensitve? Perhaps. But your wife is right. Who care what we think?

As far as the bad feelings you inspired... I will keep my thoughts on this subject to myself. However, name calling is quite common here from time to time. What is scummy and unethical to me may not be scummy to the next person and we should have all learned that by now. However, there are usually lectures and derision for the person who dares (?) do the *unethical* in someone else's view.

It's human nature. Live with it and don't take it personally.

As far as my feelings about what you did? I have none. Was it unethical of you? That's not for me to say, as you don't answer to me. Or to anyone else on the internet.

Welcome to the board. I hope you stick around.

Louise

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Author: LuluB Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129199 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/5/2002 6:54 PM
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Truthfully, you kind of asked for it.

No. He didn't. And whether we agree with what he did does NOT give us the right to namecalling, viciousness, or other behavior I saw in that thread. It was inexcusable. I can agree to disagree with someone without the hatred I saw displayed toward this poster. In the long run, people may not remember what you said or did, but they will always remember how you made them feel.

Louise

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Author: MadamSnarkyPants Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129202 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/5/2002 7:20 PM
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"No. He didn't."

I will agree to disagree with you. I don't condone personal attacks, but I can certainly understand where the passion and anger comes from. He may not have intended to incite the particular riot that followed his post, but he acknowledged from the start that he, and I quote, "certainly will agree with anyone who follows this post with an indictment of the lack of fairness, ethics, and moral character required to clean my credit files the way I have". Moral character. His words. His invitation to indict. One could probably hope that those who choose to engage in such an indictment would do it civilly and rationally, but I don't think that's a reasonable expectation for a hodge-podge community such as this.

Whether or not the name-calling was justifiable wasn't the point of my post. My point was, and is, that a thicker skin is required if one is going to espouse the virtues of unethical behavior. If you look at these threads, you'll see that I didn't engage in the attacks. Nor do I agree with them.

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Author: SouperEgo Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129205 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/5/2002 8:15 PM
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Sorry, you can only recommend a post to the Best of once

Poop!

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Author: Topaz12 One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129236 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/6/2002 1:30 AM
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>but honestly, how many of you would do it, if you could get away
>with it?????
I have one word for you. Enron.

And now, the rest of my post....
I wouldn't. The thought wouldn't even cross my mind. I got myself into the mess, I dig myself out and not by lying my way out of it. And even if I did, I certainly wouldn't come on a message board and brag about it. That is almost a surefired way to get nailed by the credit card agencies.

I'm also a big believer in karma (what goes around, comes around). I may get away with it now but sooner or later it's going to come back and bite me in the butt and I don't need that.

Topaz12
on a streak tonight, 'cause school is over for the year!!

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Author: Topaz12 One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129237 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/6/2002 1:36 AM
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Well, I'm on a roll tonight....

I gotta tell you this...and this applies to everyone...if this board offends you then, save your money and come back later when people are more calm.

Honestly, though, being called scum would offend me but believe it or not, I wouldn't take it personally. Why would I? I don't know anyone on this board personally.

Oooh, the hate mail's gonna pour in over this post.

Topaz12



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Author: JPLenny Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129239 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/6/2002 2:24 AM
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Although I fully expected a debate on the merits, ethics, and morality of challenging negative but correct credit report tradelines, I didn't expect (and maybe I should have) the ad hominem attacks which followed. Among other things I was pronounced a likely adulterer, a thief, and scum -- three epithets which (I am grateful to report) aren't accurate

Hey Doc,

First off I've been following both of these threads and have found them quite interesting. While I don't agree with your attempts to remove correct negative information from your credit reports, I do feel that the methods you used should prove quite helpful to people who have incorrect negative information on their reports. In that respect, your original post was very informative. I look forward to hearing more from you in the future.

Now lets get to the point of why you are being called various names and being attacked. Lets face it, what you did was not 100% honest or ethical. Even you realized this in your original post: There will be many on this board who would level very fair criticisms against me for having no scruples and for suffering an ethical and moral lapse. Certainly, almost all of the tradelines that were cleared were CORRECT, and in all fairness I did not deserve for them to be removed. Regardless, I have not suffered a single moment of guilt.

When you do something that is less than 100% honest, your integrity and character will come in to question. Does that mean that just because you used this tactic your are a thief, scum, or an adulterer? Not at all, but it does mean that many people will not trust you as much now that you have proven to be dishonest. Thieves and adulterers often take advantage of another person's trust. You have done the same thing, only in a different situation. You don't have a problem with it, but for others, trust is one of the most important values we find in another person. Would you go into a business agreement, knowing that someone had been dishonest in the past? I would not, but how about you?

While you may have increased your credit scores, you personal integrity may have suffered because of the methods you have used. You've said you can live with it, but others may have less faith in trusting you in the future.

Many of us have lived through our mistakes with credit, paying for our mistakes through bad credit scores. You decided you would sacrifice some of your honesty and integrity for a quick way out. It's not something that I would be proud of and I think that is where a lot of the "bad feelings" from others come from.

Then again, that fact that you invoked the name of "LizardKing” in a credit repair messages certainly did not help your image. In my opinion, there should be a special section in the board FAQ about LizardKing and the wrath it will bring if you credit him for helping you in anyway.

A final thought I would like to mention. Don't let the boards here get to you. If you find things are getting to personal for your tastes, stop responding to the attacks and skip the thread. I have done and said things here that I have later regretted and I've also been flamed for a lot less than what you've done. It happens to a lot of people. Being virtually anonymous means we can say things about you and others that we would never say if we saw you in person. It brings out both the best and worst in all people.


In the end this is a place to learn and I've learned a few things from your original post. I look forward to future posting from you.


Lenny












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Author: neondeion Two stars, 250 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129257 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/6/2002 10:02 AM
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"I dig myself out and not by lying my way out of it."

RANT...

OK, but what about those of us who are fed up with the cc's pushing us around like so many sheep led off to slaughter? Are we supposed to just keep sucking it up and putting off all of those things we really want to be doing? And what about some of their practices...

Case 1: Providian raising my rate to 25.99%. Now I don't have any problem with this rate being applied to new purchases, but applying the rate to my existing debt is ubsurd. I bought (borrowed) X.XX dollars from them under certain terms and they can arbitrarily raise my rate on said purchase... ridiculous. If it were done anywhere else it would be called wht it is, robbery. And I'm fully aware that "terms are subject to change without notice, but as I said this is ridiculous.

Case 2: Filene's department store card that I've had for nearly a decade never once with a problem. Then suddenly I make a large purchase. Despite several attempts to change my address with them (twice via the mail and twice via phone) they fail to get my bill to me. I continue to send what I believe to be the minimum payments plus a few dollars, 6% of the outstanding balance. Three months later I receive a bill with a minimum payment of appx. $400. What!?!?!... well, unbeknownst to me (and several people I talked to at Filene's) they had some policy change where they charge $0.50 on the dollar for every dollar owed over $500, or some such thing. Unbelievevable.

Case 3: Car gets repo'd and the bank sell for approximately half market value. I'm well aware that banks aren't in the business of selling cars, but half of the market value, that's ubsurd. And the debtor is left holding the bag between what they owed and what the car was sold for.

Most people here might say you made your bed go and lie in it, or just don't do business with these co.'s (i.e. vote with your dollars), etc., etc. That said, I find it very hard to feel for the cc's. It seems that they can be quite fond of shady business practices themselves. I'd be completely against it if Doc was a scoflaw trying to ditch out on his bill, but in this case he's just trying to get info, accurate and inaccurate, removed. If his hard work paid off and he doesn't go back to his old ways of delinquencies, I say lesson learned and move on. I'd really have a problem with this if I found out he was back here years later with more stories about paying late.

Does anyone else think 7 years is excessive?

-neondeion

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Author: madmikeyd Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129260 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/6/2002 10:22 AM
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>RANT...
>
>OK, but what about those of us who are fed up with the cc's pushing us
>around like so many sheep led off to slaughter? Are we supposed to just
>keep sucking it up and putting off all of those things we really want
>to be doing? And what about some of their practices...

RANT RIPOSTE

No one here is claiming that credit companies are fuzzy and warm, but with all due respect, your rant is about playing the victim rather than taking personal responsibility.

>Case 1: Providian raising my rate to 25.99%.

Their right under the agreement, as disclosed to you. Pay off the debt, then do not deal with them in the future.

>Case 2: Filene's department store card that I've had for nearly a decade never once with a problem.

If Filene's really did change terms without notice, then you have legal recourse. Yet if you called them twice about the address change, why did you not call them to confirm the correct payment?

>Case 3: Car gets repo'd and the bank sell for approximately half market value.

And whose fault is it that the car had to get repo'd? Not the bank's.

>Does anyone else think 7 years is excessive?

Not me.

Cheers,
madmikeyd

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Author: LuluB Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129262 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/6/2002 10:40 AM
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If you look at these threads, you'll see that I didn't engage in the attacks. Nor do I agree with them

I never said you did. Nor did I imply it in any way. I also don't think it's reasonable to expect that people here will engage in civil discussion without resorting to namecalling. I've seen things said here on the boards that I would not say to my worst enemy. I agree that a thick skin is required, but I find it easiest to police myself. As my parents taught me, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all." Or, even more important to me, Treat others as you would want to be treated. Anonymity here on the boards seems to be an excuse to behave in a way we would not behave to someone's face. I am not even saying I agree with the poster's ethics. But I can agree to disagree without being vicious.

Louise

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Author: neondeion Two stars, 250 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129264 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/6/2002 10:54 AM
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"No one here is claiming that credit companies are fuzzy and warm, but with all due respect, your rant is about playing the victim rather than taking personal responsibility."

Not playing the victim... paying as a victim.

"Their right under the agreement, as disclosed to you. Pay off the debt, then do not deal with them in the future."

My point was they just extended the amount of time until my final pay off through dubious means.

"If Filene's really did change terms without notice, then you have legal recourse. Yet if you called them twice about the address change, why did you not call them to confirm the correct payment?"

They did and I am taking action. But again this wastes my time and energy. They have an automated system that I did call, but all it tells you is that they received the payment.

"And whose fault is it that the car had to get repo'd? Not the bank's."

I lost my job back in the day and that's my responsibility. I'm pointing out the fact that it is just bad business to sell it at half retail. We ended up in a litigous battle over what was actually owed, they lost years of interest on the loan and for what? Because they wouldn't allow me a week to try and sell the car or at the very least sell it back to the dealership. Silly really. If I ran my business like that I doubt we'd be successful. I would do my best to stay out of court and away from the lawyers.

With respect to what some of the cc's are doing and have done, all of it was legal, but I would certainly say they are lackign in ethics. There are many people here roasting Doc for the same legal, but unethical behavior. I say turnabout is fair play. And while many of you will attack his methods saying they all cost us more in the long run I tend to doubt it. Businesses are in business to make money, they would find some other way to bilk you out of your dollars under the auspices of "rising service costs" are someother such nonsense. Just my two cents

-neondeion







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Author: ishtarastarte Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129265 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/6/2002 11:04 AM
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OK, but what about those of us who are fed up with the cc's pushing us around like so many sheep led off to slaughter? Are we supposed to just keep sucking it up and putting off all of those things we really want to be doing? And what about some of their practices...


Here's MY rant on the topic... . .

Because someone lies to me, do I have the right to lie to them? No, it effects my personal integrity.

Because someone is rude to me, do I have the right to be rude to them? NO, it effects how I feel about myself.

Because credit card companies do things that are unethical, is it "ok" for ME to do things that are unethical? NO, it effects my personal integrity and how I feel about myself.

It has nothing to do with "feeling sorry for the credit card companies" for getting screwed over by unethical tactics and everything to do with "can I look at myself in the mirror tomorrow?"

Ishtar

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Author: neondeion Two stars, 250 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129269 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/6/2002 11:17 AM
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"It has nothing to do with "feeling sorry for the credit card companies" for getting screwed over by unethical tactics and everything to do with "can I look at myself in the mirror tomorrow?"

Can I get back the time I waste dealing with them? Really, my main problem is they waste my time, the money is also a problem, but I'm smart enough to get that back. Time and effort can't be returned to me.

I'm not saying I'd do this all the time, but every once in a while it's nice to give back what's doled out to me. So, yes, sometimes people are rude to me and I'm rude back. Just not all of the time.

-neondeion




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Author: Fallout2Queen Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129292 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/6/2002 2:57 PM
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"And whose fault is it that the car had to get repo'd? Not the bank's."

I lost my job back in the day and that's my responsibility. I'm pointing out the fact that it is just bad business to sell it at half retail. We ended up in a litigous battle over what was actually owed, they lost years of interest on the loan and for what? Because they wouldn't allow me a week to try and sell the car or at the very least sell it back to the dealership. Silly really. If I ran my business like that I doubt we'd be successful. I would do my best to stay out of court and away from the lawyers.


And this week you wanted to sell the car was after missing how many payments on it?



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Author: Fallout2Queen Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129297 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/6/2002 3:09 PM
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"I dig myself out and not by lying my way out of it."

RANT...

OK, but what about those of us who are fed up with the cc's pushing us around like so many sheep led off to slaughter? Are we supposed to just keep sucking it up and putting off all of those things we really want to be doing?


Yes, you are supposed to keep sucking it up and put off doing things until you can afford to pay cash for them. This is a concept called delayed gratification. It might be hard to grasp, but you can't always have everything you want right away.

http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/america_circa_60s/46413
http://childrentoday.com/resources/articles/finances.htm



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Author: neondeion Two stars, 250 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129316 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/6/2002 4:25 PM
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"And this week you wanted to sell the car was after missing how many payments on it?"

I was two months behind. And this makes a difference because?

-neondeion

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Author: neondeion Two stars, 250 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129318 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/6/2002 4:32 PM
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"Yes, you are supposed to keep sucking it up and put off doing things until you can afford to pay cash for them. This is a concept called delayed gratification. It might be hard to grasp, but you can't always have everything you want right away."

Can you please step down from your soapbox long enough to read some of my earlier posts? Please take a look a few more of my posts in other threads before you chastise me for not embracing the concept of delayed gratification. I'm sure you'll find that under further review I've paid off a significant amount of my debt already this year, approximately $6K since January 1. I've done without a lot and will continue to, BUT for any cc to decide to change that is just wrong.

Much appreciated.

-neondeion

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Author: wrnglrjan Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129319 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/6/2002 4:37 PM
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for any cc to decide to change that is just wrong.

See, that's the problem. We just had this discussion over on LBYM, BTW (*)

Of course it's wrong for the CC companies to jack up your rates, lower your limit and otherwise do stuff to cause you financial harm.

But.

In. My. Opinion. (and, I think, the opinion of those who seem to be disagreeing with your premise)

That doesn't make it ok for you to do wrong.

That may not be your ethical view. So be it.

Jan
whose mom taught her that two wrongs don't make a right


(*) BTW = By The Way (for Gena Cheesecake :) )

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Author: neondeion Two stars, 250 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129329 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/6/2002 4:59 PM
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"That doesn't make it ok for you to do wrong."

Please read the ENTIRE thread. I've done nothing wrong, immoral or unnethical. Simply pointed out that I wouldn't lose one second of sleep if I were in Docs' situation because he paid everyone.

To each his own.

Here's a simple rule to live by: if it keeps you up at night don't do it.

-neondeion


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Author: wrnglrjan Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129332 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/6/2002 5:13 PM
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Please read the ENTIRE thread.

I have read the entire thread, actually, although there's no guarantee that I correctly understood everything about it.

It sounded like you thought it was ok to do morally questionable things (even Doc admitted that some of what he did was morally questionable) to CC companies because they have done morally questionable things to you and others.

If that's what you meant, then I stand by my point. If not, my bad, I misunderstood.

Jan


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Author: Fallout2Queen Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129358 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/6/2002 8:52 PM
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It sounded like you thought it was ok to do morally questionable things (even Doc admitted that some of what he did was morally questionable) to CC companies because they have done morally questionable things to you and others.

If that's what you meant, then I stand by my point. If not, my bad, I misunderstood.


That was my understanding, too. If I misunderstoon neondeion, then I apologize.



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Author: utahtea Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129373 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/6/2002 10:50 PM
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Can I get back the time I waste dealing with them? Really, my main problem is they waste my time, the money is also a problem, but I'm smart enough to get that back. Time and effort can't be returned to me.

Think of the time & money (in interest) lost as one of life's learning lessons.

What have you learned?

<I'll help>

You have learned that you don't want credit card debt. Why, because if you have credit card debt it's just like being a slave. They own you. They can change the rules at anytime just to keep you a slave a little longer.

I also hope you've learned that credit cards used properly can be a tool. A money making one at that. I received $150 back last year and will again this year. In the 29 years that I've had a credit card the CC companies have not received one cent of interest from me.

Tools used properly can make life easier, if the aren't used properly they can be dangerious.


Utahtea




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Author: Topaz12 One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129381 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/7/2002 3:41 AM
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>OK, but what about those of us who are fed up with the cc's pushing us
>around like so many sheep led off to slaughter? Are we supposed to just
>keep sucking it up and putting off all of those things we really want to >be doing?

Stop me before I post again! :-)

Number One: You act like an adult and stop looking for a quick fix.

Number Two: Yeah, you suck it up until it gets paid off. I meant what I said. You dug the hole, you get out of it. No one on this planet is entiled to diddly/squat but because we live in the U.S. we (as the general U.S. population) have gotten this funky sense of entitlement. "I work hard, I deserve that <fill in the blank>" However, every time I feel like complaining about my life, I come to the Motley Fool message board and realize, yet again, that I am blessed not to be saddled with the debt so many other people are. But, here's my sob story for those interested:
You speak of putting off all of those things we really want to be doing.
What do I really want to be doing? Not having to get up at 5:45 in the morning for a job that pays $2,000 a month. (I love my job regardless)
Being able to get the house to stop leaking.
Being able to stop feeling guilty whenever I pull out the credit cards for things other 'absolutely must have' (maybe if more people felt guilt, we'd have less debt)
Being able to travel without wondering how on earth I'm going to pay for it.
Being able to help out my retired mother with her bills.
I am not complaining. I'd like to, I'd LOVE to. I just know it's not going to get me anywhere.
I'm always amazed at how people dig a nice big hole of debt saying 'I'm entitled, I need this, I want this' and then when they lose their job or their money, they started complaining. Well, dang, you (general) should have thought of that before you started charging up a storm.

As for your examples, neondion, I don't know what to tell you beyond:
I am never getting a Providian card, I don't live near a Filene's but that must have been crazy regardless and, how'd the car get repossesed? You just fell behind on payments or what? (I'm asking in all seriousness)

>That said, I find it very hard to feel for the cc's.
Nor I. I think what some people forget that the credit cards are out to make money. Mastercard ain't no charity. (forgive the bad grammar) They give you money and they want it back, shocking that.

>It seems that
>they can be quite fond of shady business practices themselves.
Absolutely, which is why you've got to figure out which ones those are and leave them be.

>but in this case he's just trying to get info, accurate and
>inaccurate, removed.
The key words here are accurate and removed. If the info is accurate then it needs to stay, having it removed ammounts to fraud. And I think it's nice that he got around to paying the bills off but at what cost to himself?
He basically (if I got it right) thumbs his nose at the credit card agencies, posts his 'wonderful idea' on this board and is surprised when people get offended.

>I'd really have a problem with this if I found out he was back
>here years later with more stories about paying late.
You have more faith in him than I do but I hope you're right. My personal opinion is he'll keep doing what he's been doing until he gets caught. Why? It works. Why do it the other way, when his way works. Simple human nature.

Well, neondion, I wish you good luck, you are blessed simply by having found this board with these wonderful people on it. It may sound corny but it's true.

Topaz12

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Author: neondeion Two stars, 250 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129393 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/7/2002 9:45 AM
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"Number One: You act like an adult and stop looking for a quick fix."

Number One: Spare me. Can you read? I NEVER said I was looking for a quick fix. I said only that I had no problem whatsoever with someone that did. READ THE POSTS!!!! Seems like there are far to many people out there trying to get rec'd by flaming people without reading and comprehending everything that has been written.

Number Two: I'm entitled to complain, that is my right as an American. As long as I am PAYING, I see no problem with that.


"I am never getting a Providian card, I don't live near a Filene's but that must have been crazy regardless and, how'd the car get repossesed? You just fell behind on payments or what? (I'm asking in all seriousness)"

That's great that you'll never get a Providian card, at least one of my messages came across clearly. On the issue of the car... I had two jobs that I started working as a junior in college. One in real estate and one was bartending. Thought I had more than enough cushion to get by. I was making a ton at the bar, so I decided to try and use that money to get my real estate license. Got the license and was told I would need a car to show apartments and houses. Well over the coarse of the next year the bar money started to become less and less and it was harder to get extra shifts. At the same time the real estate company that I was working for went through the worst 9 months in the decade primarily because the office manager was going through chemo and could not adequately do her job (don't mean to sound callous because it is a horrible thing to have to go through, but they should have hired some extra help). So, the RE season ended that September so I was basically out of a job and during that time I fell two months behind. I was paying whatever I could whenever I could (literally dropping off my tip money the day after I made it), but that wasn't enough and they took the car. 'Nuff said.

-neondeion









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Author: Fallout2Queen Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129407 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/7/2002 10:33 AM
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I was paying whatever I could whenever I could (literally dropping off my tip money the day after I made it), but that wasn't enough and they took the car. 'Nuff said.


Sorry for overreacting in my previous post(s); it sounded like you weren't paying anything on the car.



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Author: neondeion Two stars, 250 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129418 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/7/2002 10:57 AM
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"Sorry for overreacting in my previous post(s); it sounded like you weren't paying anything on the car."

Now just not paying would be foolish (small f).

-neondeion



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Author: satyrngrl Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129486 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/7/2002 5:46 PM
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Seems like there are far to many people out there trying to get rec'd by flaming people without reading and comprehending everything that has been written.

Why is it you think that because people are disagreeing with you, they must not be "reading and comprehending" what you have written? Or because they are posting in disagreement with you they must be "trying to get recs"?


Nickie

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Author: neondeion Two stars, 250 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 129647 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/10/2002 9:26 AM
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"Why is it you think that because people are disagreeing with you, they must not be "reading and comprehending" what you have written?"

I have no problem with people disagreeing with me. Life would be quite boring. What bothered me is that some people seemed to be of the opinion that I had actually done something wrong or that I was looking to do something wrong. That's why I said it might behoove some people to take a little more time reading.

-neondeion

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Author: jjoniec Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 130010 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/12/2002 12:16 AM
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I thought your post was kinda cool and it did not inspire negative feelings in me. In my opinion as long as you didn't skip on you're debt that's fine, more power to you. What ever you do don't mention you want an SUV or consider a major purchase on credit that you have the slightest doubts about.

Joanna

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Author: Wolfshead56 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 130297 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 6/13/2002 3:02 PM
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Glad I was on vacation last week and missed the mudslinging. Hope things are back to normal by the time I catch up.

BTW, what's wrong with scum? Last time I looked scum was always on the top of things. It's the dregs at the bottom that i wouldn't want to be <G>

herb

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Author: EricaS Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 134172 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 7/22/2002 4:24 PM
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I agree with the idea that 7 years is too long, and so does New York State. NY laws state that a fully paid creditor is to be removed from a credit report after 5 years. I think that 5 years is still too long, but what the heck, I'll take what I can get.

I personally don't have any issues with what PsycDoc posted or his manners of "repairing" his credit report. I congratulate him, as a matter of fact. I have been fighting with creditors and CRA's for almost 2 years now, and they still haven't even made an attempt to correct the information.

I admit, some of it is what's supposed to be there, but if a former creditor doesn't have any records of what actually happened, why should I fight that? Isn't it good business practice to keep your records? I'm not going to argue with them and tell them that I WANT them to report it.... And what about the creditors who don't report ALL information? For example, Citibank will only report your high balance and not your credit limit. Isn't that incomplete information? I don't see anything wrong with me disputing otherwise correct information to get the credit limit reported.

I'm not going to condone or comdemn anyone for their methods simply because they worked. I have been trying for a long time, and I'm still not where Randy is today.

There are some on this board that think that one should pay all of their debts all the time. I have a creditor who can't prove to me that I owe them almost $3000....why should I pay them if they can't supply me with charge slips or any kind of records to show that I DO owe it? I could print something off my computer and say the same thing. If I'm going to pay it, I want proof.

I do agree with the notion that paying one's debts all of the time is the "moral" thing to do, but not all the time.

With that said....I'm going to bow out of this conversation gracefully....

Erica

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Author: ramsfanray Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 134174 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 7/22/2002 4:34 PM
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I think any debts that have been paid should be marked PAID IN FULL in great big giant letters. Perhaps with a notation that reads, "Although he was stupid, he did take responsibilty for his debts and paid them off."

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Author: PsycDoc One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 134521 of 308542
Subject: Re: About being "scum" Date: 7/25/2002 1:09 PM
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Thanks for the kind word, Erica. I think it's interesting that New York has designated that negative tradelines fall off CRA reports at the 5 year mark (as opposed to the usual 7 year mark). It would be interesting to find out which NY state legislator(s) advocated this as well as the motives that drove such forward-thinking reforms.

Doc

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