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Author: ishtarastarte Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 5056  
Subject: Age is just a number? Date: 9/27/2012 1:30 PM
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17 year old
28 year old

dating, no sex

Discuss. . .
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Author: Rael137 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4671 of 5056
Subject: Re: Age is just a number? Date: 9/27/2012 1:39 PM
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What is the age of consent in the state?

If the 17 year old is still a dependent what do the parents think?

Answers to these will affect the direction of the discussion.

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Author: ishtarastarte Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4672 of 5056
Subject: Re: Age is just a number? Date: 9/27/2012 1:52 PM
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Age of consent is 18.

Parent is. . . reluctantly supportive.

Parent knows the adult and thinks the adult is generally, overall a good person. If the relationship was happening 5 years from now, parent would be all for it.

The age difference at this point is worrying because of all the pitfalls coming up that neither one of them see.

Right now, they think they are in love.

Parent is reluctant to interfere because of possible consequences. Teen may lose interest in school and college if forced to break it off, and likely will also increase lying/sneaking to see adult.

Parent is spending time with both of them when they are together to limit opportunities for sexual activity.

Ishtar

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Author: legalwordwarrior Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4673 of 5056
Subject: Re: Age is just a number? Date: 9/27/2012 3:43 PM
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T&P to the parent!

We were in a similar situation, although the age difference wasn't quite as great. DD#2 has been dating her BF for just over a year. When they got together, she was just shy of 19 and he was 24. She's now 20 and he's about to be 26. Things are going well for them. He is very supportive of her continuing in college, so that's a plus.

My oldest step-sis was 17 when she met her husband. At the time, he was 32. They married when she was 19. They've now been together for about 35 years.

When it works, it works.

That said, if the younger of the couple is under the age of consent, disasters can happen. Including the law getting involved and the older member of the couple getting labeled as a child molestor.

A friend's son was dating a young lady who was 15 and he was 19. Her mother had no problem with it. His mother was concerned, but figured that if her mother was okay, then it was all good. Nope. Young Miss has an older brother who was definitely not okay with it. He called in Child Protective Services and our friend's son went to jail for 18 mths.

LWW

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Author: ishtarastarte Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4674 of 5056
Subject: Re: Age is just a number? Date: 9/27/2012 4:21 PM
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A friend's son was dating a young lady who was 15 and he was 19. Her mother had no problem with it. His mother was concerned, but figured that if her mother was okay, then it was all good. Nope. Young Miss has an older brother who was definitely not okay with it. He called in Child Protective Services and our friend's son went to jail for 18 mths.

T&P?

That's the biggest concern now. Parent won't report, but someone else might.

Parent isn't happy, but doesn't want to create a Romeo & Juliet scenario where the couple feels they need to do something stupid.

Older person is supportive of school and college plans. Parent is pushing for teen to go to a not-so-local college.

If it's meant to be, they'll make it through that, and if it isn't, it'll help the transition.


Ishtar

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Author: ishtarastarte Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4675 of 5056
Subject: Re: Age is just a number? Date: 9/27/2012 5:14 PM
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I guess here's the question. . .

I know my sense of sexual ethics can sometimes be outside the norm. I've had some. . . non-traditional relationships myself.

I'm thinking that unless this blows up (with someone else informing authorities) in the end, maybe it won't be terrible.

I can see some things that could turn bad, but not dangerous.

I think parent is treading a fine line and doing the best parent can.

But others are urging parent to take more . . . direct action or not approving of the path parent has chosen.

Ishtar

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Author: legalwordwarrior Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4676 of 5056
Subject: Re: Age is just a number? Date: 9/27/2012 5:45 PM
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That's the biggest concern now. Parent won't report, but someone else might.

Parent isn't happy, but doesn't want to create a Romeo & Juliet scenario where the couple feels they need to do something stupid.


I totally understand the feelings of the parent. It can be hard knowing where to draw the appropriate line without the whole thing getting out of hand and someone returning from Vegas with a wedding ring! Or worse, an unplanned grandchild!

LWW

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Author: ishtarastarte Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4677 of 5056
Subject: Re: Age is just a number? Date: 9/27/2012 5:49 PM
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I totally understand the feelings of the parent. It can be hard knowing where to draw the appropriate line without the whole thing getting out of hand and someone returning from Vegas with a wedding ring! Or worse, an unplanned grandchild!

Yeah, that.

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Author: legalwordwarrior Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4678 of 5056
Subject: Re: Age is just a number? Date: 9/27/2012 5:53 PM
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But others are urging parent to take more . . . direct action or not approving of the path parent has chosen.

Well, only the parent knows their kid well enough to know what might or might not happen if a foot is put down.

When DD#1 was 17, she discovered that our local police force did not search for 17 yr old runaways. One evening, when she was ticked off because we wouldn't let her go out on a school night, she called a friend and "moved out"

DH packed up all her stuff and left the boxes in the middle of the room. She called a month later to ask to come home, but with "conditions" one of which was that we allow her to quit school and take the GED. I told her I don't negotiate with spoiled brats and that if she wanted to come home, we would allow her to do so only if she returned to school.

Hardest conversation ever. When we hung up I honestly didn't know if I'd ever see her again. The following week she came home while we were out of town. When we got back, she was just sitting in the middle of her bed in an empty room. She returned to school on the following Monday.

Today we have an awesome relationship. She had to make her own mistakes, which included marriage at 18, divorce at 19 and 4 kids before she was 27. But she's married to a decent guy who loves her and takes care of her. So it's all turned out okay, even if not in the way I probably would have liked 10 years ago.

LWW

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Author: Frydaze1 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4679 of 5056
Subject: Re: Age is just a number? Date: 9/27/2012 6:00 PM
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I've got a few conflicting opinions about this. I say this from the perspective of someone who also had many non-traditional relationships at various ages.

Pros:
When xDH and I started dating, I was 17 and he was almost 25. Our marriage problems weren't because of the age difference. In many ways I was and always will be older than him.
Age differences become less and less meaningful the older we get. (Usually)
If they're avoiding the legal issues of a sexual relationship, there's a strong possibility that they're actually talking and getting to know one another. That's usually a good way to find out if the relationship is real. And if it isn't, it will probably die a natural death.
Forbidding such relationships is a losing battle, as you obviously already realize.

Cons:
Sexual tension can cause one to feel bonded. Sometimes just having sex a few times was enough to get me past that. They were my ideal, until we'd done that. Then I realized they were human and annoying just like everyone else. And, no, not because of bad sex. Just because the lure of that no longer blocked my view of everything else.
On the other hand, sex for the first time can be pretty overwhelming when you don't have anything else to compare it to. It could cause bonding that wouldn't otherwise have happened.
Too many times I've seen relationships where one person had sexual relationships prior to meeting their spouse who hadn't ever slept with anyone else, and that non-sexually-active one came to resent not having had a chance to experiment and flirt and such before making a lifetime commitment. Curiosity and jealousy can suck.
I always wonder about someone who is nearly 30 who can find much in common with someone who is under 20. She (in this case) just doesn't have the life experience yet. That doesn't mean she isn't a wonderful person, but she hasn't lived any part of an adult life yet. And "what's your favorite song" only goes so far.

At the end of the day, your only choices are to monitor it or drive it into hiding. It sounds like you've made the wiser choice. And if it all develops into a permanent, healthy relationship, that'll be wonderful. And if it doesn't, it won't be because of your interference.


Frydaze1

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Author: Frydaze1 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4680 of 5056
Subject: Re: Age is just a number? Date: 9/27/2012 6:14 PM
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She had to make her own mistakes

That. Some of us (meaning ME) are stubborn past any point of reason. I ran away from home and stayed out for *years* because I wouldn't admit defeat. I stayed in a bad marriage for *years* because I wouldn't admit defeat. When I recovered my senses each time, the parent I went to for help/sympathy/advice wasn't the one who'd driven all my activities into hiding. It was the one who would always tell me why they felt I was making a bad choice, but without making our relationship hing on doing it their way. Not more lenient, just more... I don't know how to describe it. They picked their battles, while the other one made everything so earth shattering that we both lost our sense of proportion, and I lost any respect for their judgement. If they made such a big deal over something like coming home 5 minutes late from school, there was no place to elevate their outrage over me sneaking out at night. It was all just noise to me.

I made some crappy choices. They both knew it at the time and both told me so. But one was always there for ME regardless of whether or not they'd tolerate certain behavior from me. It was a fine line to walk. The older I get, the more impressed I am with it. And the more I respect them for it.


Frydaze1

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Author: ishtarastarte Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4681 of 5056
Subject: Re: Age is just a number? Date: 9/27/2012 6:30 PM
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Pros:
When xDH and I started dating, I was 17 and he was almost 25. Our marriage problems weren't because of the age difference. In many ways I was and always will be older than him.
Age differences become less and less meaningful the older we get. (Usually)
If they're avoiding the legal issues of a sexual relationship, there's a strong possibility that they're actually talking and getting to know one another. That's usually a good way to find out if the relationship is real. And if it isn't, it will probably die a natural death.
Forbidding such relationships is a losing battle, as you obviously already realize.



Yeah, 23 & 34 not as big a deal as 17/28.


Cons:
Sexual tension can cause one to feel bonded. Sometimes just having sex a few times was enough to get me past that. They were my ideal, until we'd done that. Then I realized they were human and annoying just like everyone else. And, no, not because of bad sex. Just because the lure of that no longer blocked my view of everything else.



I know exactly what you mean.


On the other hand, sex for the first time can be pretty overwhelming when you don't have anything else to compare it to. It could cause bonding that wouldn't otherwise have happened.
Too many times I've seen relationships where one person had sexual relationships prior to meeting their spouse who hadn't ever slept with anyone else, and that non-sexually-active one came to resent not having had a chance to experiment and flirt and such before making a lifetime commitment. Curiosity and jealousy can suck.


Yeah, I can see that, too.


I always wonder about someone who is nearly 30 who can find much in common with someone who is under 20. She (in this case) just doesn't have the life experience yet. That doesn't mean she isn't a wonderful person, but she hasn't lived any part of an adult life yet. And "what's your favorite song" only goes so far.


YES!

There's so much that the adult has done that the teen has not. I don't mean just the usually crazy sh!t, but the GROWING UP. Figuring out how to take care of yourself, finding balance and all that.

I did a HELL of a lot of living in those years.


At the end of the day, your only choices are to monitor it or drive it into hiding. It sounds like you've made the wiser choice. And if it all develops into a permanent, healthy relationship, that'll be wonderful. And if it doesn't, it won't be because of your interference.


The parent in this case would rather be someone that the teen can rely on than becoming judgmental and controlling. The parent has had open and very frank discussions with both parties and wants lines of communication to remain open.

Ishtar

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Author: legalwordwarrior Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4682 of 5056
Subject: Re: Age is just a number? Date: 9/28/2012 9:25 AM
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I always wonder about someone who is nearly 30 who can find much in common with someone who is under 20. She (in this case) just doesn't have the life experience yet. That doesn't mean she isn't a wonderful person, but she hasn't lived any part of an adult life yet. And "what's your favorite song" only goes so far.

I had to chuckle about this. Earlier this year, my dear step-bro who is nearing 60, started dating a woman who was in her early 30's. His argument for not dating women closer to his age was that they always "came with baggage" and that this woman was completely free of baggage.

I raised an eyebrow at him and said "Right. She doesn't have baggage because hasn't lived enough to pack more than an overnight bag yet!"

The romantic relationship didn't work out, apparently, he had more than enough baggage for them both. But to be fair, they have managed to remain friends.

LWW

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Author: tconi Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4683 of 5056
Subject: Re: Age is just a number? Date: 10/9/2012 6:48 AM
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my dear step-bro who is nearing 60, started dating a woman who was in her early 30's.
CrestlineKathy (remember her?) used to say she wouldn't date a man below a certain age, because when someone asked Do you remember where you were when JFK was shot?
She didnt want her BF to say Didnt he die in a plane crash?

To the OP - I have no room to criticize an age difference.
BUT, Yes, as soon as the relationship is *forbidden* it will be so much more appealing.
However, I look back on my high school relationships and realize that what seemed like ForEvah!! was just a few months.
Those all night long phone calls...what DID any of us talk about?

The more "public" and aboveboard the relationship, the more likely it has a chance to run it's course.
Also, even if the young woman is not sexually active (yet) - Birth Control needs to be in place.
My personal favorite was always the Norplant.
Five years!


peace & frames of reference
t

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Author: legalwordwarrior Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4685 of 5056
Subject: Re: Age is just a number? Date: 10/9/2012 9:10 AM
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CrestlineKathy (remember her?) used to say she wouldn't date a man below a certain age, because when someone asked Do you remember where you were when JFK was shot?
She didnt want her BF to say Didnt he die in a plane crash?


I like that! Last night I took DD#2 out to Iola to show me what's left of her car. They had hauled it to the land of the people her BF rents from and I needed to know how to get there for the adjuster, and she wanted me to meet the landlord. He's a guy not alot older than I am and when we hopped out of the car and DD#2 said "D, this is my mom" He grinned and said "I could have sworn that was your sister" I will say one thing for older guys, they know how to use flattery to good advantage ;0)


My personal favorite was always the Norplant.
Five years!


THe mother of our oldest daughter's bestie in high school put the bestie on Norplant her junior year. Poor kid gained 30lbs! I always felt bad for her, at the most socially awkward time of her life, she was also battling her weight in a school full of stick figures.

She went on to marry really early (18) and divorced before she was 22. But, on the bright side, she hasn't gotten pregnant yet.

LWW

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Author: ishtarastarte Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4687 of 5056
Subject: Re: Age is just a number? Date: 10/9/2012 2:21 PM
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Norplant is only 3 years now, but I believe such options are being looked into.

Ishtar

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Author: Rael137 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4688 of 5056
Subject: Re: Age is just a number? Date: 10/9/2012 2:29 PM
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Norplant is only 3 years now,…

It is a lot older than that - I knew a friend on it in 1992. I'm not sure it is still on the market.

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Author: tconi Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4689 of 5056
Subject: Re: Age is just a number? Date: 10/9/2012 3:06 PM
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I think she meant It only lasts 3 years, instead of 5 years, now.
I got it in 1991, and it was pulled off th emarket at some point - ah, the Google tells me

Neither Norplant nor any other hormonal implant is currently available to women in the United States. The manufacturer of Norplant stopped distributing the Norplant System in July of 2002.

which is a shame, because that was a good plan
but one can get it in Bangladesh and New Zealand...


peace & options
t

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Author: ishtarastarte Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4690 of 5056
Subject: Re: Age is just a number? Date: 10/9/2012 3:37 PM
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I mean it only lasts 3 years instead of 5. They discontinued the 5 year several years ago and a couple years later reintroduced the 3 year one under a new name.

My BFF was on the original for ten years (implanted twice) but when she went to get the third one, it was no longer manufactured.

Norplant distribution in the United States ended in 2002; limited supplies still remained in the U.S. until 2004. Norplant was withdrawn from the UK market in 1999.[4]

Norplant II (Norplant-2, Jadelle), also developed by the Population Council and manufactured by Schering Oy, consists of two small (2.5 mm × 43 mm) silicone rods each containing 75 mg of levonorgestrel in a polymer matrix, instead of six capsules. It was approved May 31, 1996 by the FDA as being effective for three years; it was subsequently approved November 22, 2002 by the FDA as being effective for five years. Jadelle has not been marketed in the United States;[5] Jadelle is the successor to the original Norplant in USAID's contract beginning January 2007.[6]


Though it looks like maybe it is 5 years after all with the new formulation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norplant

Ishtar

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Author: MazieNH Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4691 of 5056
Subject: Re: Age is just a number? Date: 10/9/2012 10:17 PM
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Well, I was 17 dating a man who was forty....something, so there's that. But I sure as heck didn't tell my parents.

I think to me it depends a lot on the individuals involved. I was a very mature 17. I was responsible about BC and it was a fling before college.

I'd be most wary of the power dynamic in the relationship. If he's a "young" 28 and she takes the lead in an equal amount of the give and take, I'd be ok with it.

If he's controlling, trying to isolate her from her friends or family or pushing her into anything before she is ready, making her feel young and stupid or firmly keeping an upper hand in the relationship, I'd be not ok with it. But that would not be because of the age difference, but because that dynamic is more likely with an age difference, if that makes sense?

Sounds based on your description so far that isn't the case, so I think the wait and see approach and keeping communication open is very wise. But I'd be looking into an IUD also.

Marianne

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Author: alstroemeria Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4692 of 5056
Subject: Re: Age is just a number? Date: 10/12/2012 8:29 AM
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17 year old
28 year old
dating, no sex
Discuss. . .


Very late to this discussion (this is one of many boards I check in on sporadically), but thought I'd weigh in from another angle.

My parents were 12 years apart in age, began dating when Mom was 19 and Daddy 31, and had the happiest marriage I've ever observed. Yeah, the 40s were different--marrying an older, established man was more of a goal for young women then.

My parents were from different socio-economic and intelligence levels, had different interests & hobbies, somewhat different ethnic backgrounds. When they started out, it was pretty girl and mentor, kind of like Marilyn Monroe and Arthur Miller (without the sleaze-). My mother told me recently that the first time she had sex was during their engagement, when she was 21 and he was 33. They must've been very careful as their first child was born more than 9 months after the wedding ;-)

Anyway, things change. Daddy's business died and Mom went back to work (as a part-time assistant bookkeeper, a word I learned to spell at a very early age (!) along with independent manufacturer's sales representative, which is what my father became after closing his business). Mom became the main breadwinner by the late 60s, which must've changed their relationship dynamic, but Daddy was still smarter and better educated (neither went to college but Daddy was a voracious reader with a retentive memory and came across as better educated than their friends with professional degrees). Thinking more about them, their dynamic was interesting...a neatnik and a slob, but both healthy and physically energetic, both practical rather than theoretical or idealistic, both valued nice clothes and nice things (good appearances), both people-people, social and popular, both loved their roles as parent and grandparent (for Myers-Briggs afficionados, an ESFJ married to an ESFP).

The sad part came when Daddy became ill in his 80s while Mom was a vibrant 60-70something. She found it humiliating and just too difficult to take her husband out in a wheelchair, and just stopped taking him out of the house although she was a devoted caregiver inside it. I'm reminded of another couple of my acquaintance, married when she was early 40s and he approaching 60. His health and career success went downhill a few years after their marriage, a very stressful situation as he was the masterful manly bon vivant and she the adoring lover. Is that often the result in these cases? Anotehr example from my real life of a younger woman marrying an older man with prior family...his deteriorating mental and physical health and career downslide were opposite to her coming into her own in middle age. They divorced. A Star Is Born syndrome? When my mother whines about the loss of her husband, I can't help but think, Did you not foresee this day? Yes, I know one is entitled to complain about even a predictable fate, not to mention "in sickness and in health" and that disability can strike at any age--my husband had strokes at 60 (luckily micro-strokes, but he has difficulty speaking now).

To be honest, I'm personally skeeved by very early marriage and by big age difference in couples, despite my parents' mostly successful model. I would've been stressed out if my daughter had been interested in a man even 5 years older, especially at 17, even though she was one of those early maturing girls (I don't mean so much physical maturity as emotional/mental maturity). But that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it. I guess I'm just suspicious of the motives of a man interested in a much younger woman.

I don't think there's much of a point in all this rambling. Maybe that some differences work against a couple, and some for it. Age and life stage may work against, but common goals, personalities, religion (both of my parents were atheists) are in their favor.

All that aside, I think it would be too bad if the 17-year-old doesn't have the freedom to date in college.

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Author: lovingrose Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4706 of 5056
Subject: Re: Age is just a number? Date: 10/19/2012 10:14 PM
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I'm assuming the adult is male? There is no way in hades I would want an adult male around my teenaged daughter. And there's no way I'm buying that they're celibate.

If u question is whether u should rat them out to authorities I'd leave it alone. She is almost at the age of consent. I'd leave it alone.

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Author: tconi Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4709 of 5056
Subject: Re: Age is just a number? Date: 10/21/2012 3:09 PM
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(age difference related anecdote)

I was talking to GoMC about my current work project.
I said OMG, this project/town-where-I-am-working, feels like Hotel California...

he said "what does that mean?"


peace & sigh
t

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Author: ishtarastarte Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4710 of 5056
Subject: Re: Age is just a number? Date: 10/21/2012 3:44 PM
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too funny - But C understood the reference.

Ishtar

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Author: legalwordwarrior Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4711 of 5056
Subject: Re: Age is just a number? Date: 10/21/2012 10:50 PM
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I have a new coworker who is in her mid-30s. I'm about 18 years older than she is. I love how she keeps trying to reference things that happened more than a decade before she was born as if she experienced them personally. I'm seeing McCartney in November. Can't wait to hear if she was at Lennon's last concert ;0)

LWW

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