Message Font: Serif | Sans-Serif
 
UnThreaded | Threaded | Whole Thread (13) | Ignore Thread Prev Thread | Next Thread
Author: PSUEngineer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 71048  
Subject: Age of fluids Date: 11/28/2012 12:07 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
I recently acquired a 2004 Lexus ES330. For its age, it doesn't have many miles on it at 73K. Looking through the maintenance records, I didn't see any fluid changes except for oil. It was a well-maintained car - going in for maintenance every 5K miles at the Lexus dealer. Apparently, the dealer didn't think there was anything wrong with the age of the fluids in it. I'm wondering if I should think about having some of the fluids changed. For example, the coolant is a 100K coolant. The ethylene glycol in the coolant doesn't wear out but the anti-corrosion additives do. At 9 years, it may be time for a change. What do you think?

PSU
Print the post Back To Top
Author: eudaimon6 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 69618 of 71048
Subject: Re: Age of fluids Date: 11/28/2012 12:24 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 4
I assume you plan to keep the car for five or six years at least, right?

Areas of concern for me would include all the fluids, especially brake, engine coolant, and transmission fluid.

I would take a good look at the belts and hoses.

I would want to know how old the tires were. Given the age and miles, it would not surprise me to find out the tires were five+ years old, unless of course they're brand new.

I have no scientific or technical reason for my thinking, but I can't get past my father's teaching that fluids are cheap and engines are expensive.

Can the fluids be inspected? Some transmissions I guess are sealed and you can't even look at the fluid without opening the case.

Absent any evidence they have been replaced, I'd want new coolant, brake fluid and transmission fluid.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: PSUEngineer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 69619 of 71048
Subject: Re: Age of fluids Date: 11/28/2012 12:33 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
I would want to know how old the tires were. Given the age and miles, it would not surprise me to find out the tires were five+ years old, unless of course they're brand new.

The tires are only one year old. As for brakes, they were also changed a year ago. I don't have the records in front of me so I would need to check to see if the brake fluid was flushed when the brake pads were changed.

As for the belts and hoses, I assume the Lexus dealer would have changed them 3000 miles ago if needed when the car was in for service at 70K miles.

Since it won't be going back to that Lexus dealer, it doesn't hurt to have new eyes check it out.

PSU

Print the post Back To Top
Author: ww4321 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 69620 of 71048
Subject: Re: Age of fluids Date: 11/28/2012 2:56 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
I am not sure if this is right--but a recent auto article I read said that mechanics can tell if fluids have to be replaced by touching them and seeing how they look and feel----no matter how long since changed.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: pauleckler Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 69621 of 71048
Subject: Re: Age of fluids Date: 11/28/2012 4:24 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
You can probably buy a can of corrosion inhibitor to extend the life of your antifreeze if funds are limited. But if you plan to keep the car a while, flush and fill is probably the right move.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: PSUEngineer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 69622 of 71048
Subject: Re: Age of fluids Date: 11/28/2012 4:27 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
You can probably buy a can of corrosion inhibitor to extend the life of your antifreeze if funds are limited. But if you plan to keep the car a while, flush and fill is probably the right move.

Funds are not limited. Being the frugal person that I am, I also don't like spending money if the expense is not needed.

PSU
spent a bunch already on two other vehicles this past week

Print the post Back To Top
Author: TMFTwitty Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 69625 of 71048
Subject: Re: Age of fluids Date: 11/29/2012 10:48 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
Anecdotaly, I've had the original fluids in a Mustang GT for 12 years. No observable issues regarding performance, appearance, or smell, but it is low mileage (~39K). Ford dealer isn't trying to sell fluid service when it's in for routine maintenance, and they usually don't miss a trick on that.

Richard

Print the post Back To Top
Author: Milligram46 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 69626 of 71048
Subject: Re: Age of fluids Date: 11/29/2012 11:35 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
but a recent auto article I read said that mechanics can tell if fluids have to be replaced by touching them and seeing how they look and feel

And smell. Yup, it is true. Old fluid doesn't feel as "slippery" as it has tiny bits in it, it will smell "old" or burned (it won't smell clean/sweet/oily depending on the fluid) and the color will immediately show its age.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: devoish Big red star, 1000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 69627 of 71048
Subject: Re: Age of fluids Date: 11/29/2012 7:02 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 4
I am not sure if this is right--but a recent auto article I read said that mechanics can tell if fluids have to be replaced by touching them and seeing how they look and feel----no matter how long since changed.

Nope. I cannot tell by feel when they should be changed, but sometimes I can tell that they should have been changed a long time ago.

Semantics aside, I'd just change them. That is an awfully expensive car to be corroding the cooling system, wearing the bearings or moisturizing the inside of the brake lines.

Hope that helps,
Steven

Print the post Back To Top
Author: AfoolwondersNot Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 69682 of 71048
Subject: Re: Age of fluids Date: 12/18/2012 10:28 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
and the color will immediately show its age.

In the case of diesel engine oil don't be alarmed if it is black. It turns black very quickly. That does not mean it needs to be changed.
In addition the change motor oil every 3K miles is a myth created by corporations with the intention of parting you from your money unnecessarily. "The California Integrated Waste Management Board ran public service announcements for several years about “the 3,000-mile myth,” urging drivers to wait longer between oil changes. Although the information is a few years old, the board has a list of cars on its Web site and how often they need oil changes."

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/11/your-money/11shortcuts.htm...

There are plenty of other places/sites to get accurate info concerning this fallacy.

I will post this on the LBYM's board in addition to this one.

AfwN ==> Brought to you by concerned consumers against AfoolandhismoneyaresoonParted.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: eudaimon6 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 69683 of 71048
Subject: Re: Age of fluids Date: 12/18/2012 11:38 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Oil darkens pretty quickly when put into an older engine.

Both my vehicles have considerably more than 100,000 miles. They've both been serviced pretty regularly. The oil is dark a few weeks after a change.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: havefunsaving Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Ticker Guide Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 69909 of 71048
Subject: Re: Age of fluids Date: 3/16/2013 3:04 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
In addition the change motor oil every 3K miles is a myth created by corporations with the intention of parting you from your money unnecessarily. - AfwN

I came here seeking info on just this topic. I was considering doing 3-5K oil changes, but wanted to see if the consensus was that that was really more frequent than needed on newer cars, which generally state that oil changes should be done at 5-10K intervals. So I have a follow-up question.

I just bought a 2013 Ford Fusion Hybrid (which I absolutely love, btw!), and the manual suggests changing the oil every 10K miles, for my driving, anyway. I drive 25 miles one way to work, most of it highway, at speeds generally between 40-70mph. A little stop-and-go along the way, but not too much, as I try to time my drive to avoid the heaviest traffic. I am also driving to maximize the use of the electric engine for better gas mileage, driving 60% of the way in EV mode. For those unfamiliar with the 2013 FFH, it can go up to 62mph in EV mode. I have frequently been able to go as fast as 63-64mph in EV for short periods of time, so it definitely lives up to that promise. I live in the L.A. basin of SoCal, so no severe weather, no road salts, etc. I will drive a few times a year out to the desert to visit my mom, but that's still going to be on a fairly well-maintained interstate, with rare wind-generated dust storms. I would likely change the oil much sooner after one of those.

Note that on the 2013 Fusion Hybrid, the electric and gas engines can sometimes both be running to maximize engine efficiency. As I understand it, most hybrids, especially prior to 2013 models, run in one or the other, but not both at the same time.

So my question: with a brand-new car, one that I intend to keep for 10 years or so, one that I intend to maintain religiously to get the most out of the car for the longest period of time possible: Is there any advantage whatsoever to changing the oil more frequently than 10K miles?

Also, on another board some time ago, mention was made that in that poster's car, using Mobil 1 oil had appeared to have a very beneficial effect on his engine (he's a car guy). Should I consider insisting on Mobil 1 oil for my oil changes?

Thoughts?

Thanks and Best Regards,
Kathie

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: havefunsaving Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Ticker Guide Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 69911 of 71048
Subject: Re: Age of fluids Date: 3/16/2013 3:42 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 2
So my question: with a brand-new car, one that I intend to keep for 10 years or so, one that I intend to maintain religiously to get the most out of the car for the longest period of time possible: Is there any advantage whatsoever to changing the oil more frequently than 10K miles? - Me

In looking for more info (and trying to answer my own question to some extent), I found this from a link in Post #69814 by dbruce100 (emphasis mine):

While the wear rate is not greatly escalated at the front end of the OCI, it certainly is not relieved (lessened) by the frequent OCI, either. In short, changing your oil early does not reduce the wear rates, presuming you did not allow the sump load to become compromised in the previous load. It’s a subtle but very important distinction. When you have reasonably healthy oil, the wear rate slope is generally negatively flat (muted is a better term, as there is always some variance). Only after the oil becomes compromised (overwhelmed) in some manner would you see a statistical shift in wear rates. Hence, higher wear at the front of an OCI is plausible, but the claim of lesser wear with fresh oil is most certainly false. The wear rate for Fe is reasonably constant, if all other things are in decent operational shape. Those who change oil frequently at 3k miles are not helping their engine. Those who leave it in for longer periods are not hurting the engine. At this point, I will note an acknowledgment to the concerns outside of wear metals. Oxidation, soot, coolant, fuel, etc can cause a need to OCI. But, those things are also reasonably tracked in a UOA. So, if your fluid health is good, and your wear metals are on track, there is no reason to OCI until something changes in a statistically significant manner.

Now if you click on the linked article, you will see that that section is talking about a specific engine (the Ford 4.6L, "modular" gasoline V-8 engine), but I'm guessing it goes to the heart of oil changes in general:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/used-oil-analysis-how-to-decid...

In addressing the UL listing for that engine,and utilizing various oil types, etc., within the sample, he said:

Hence, the conclusion to come to is that lube brand and grade, filtration selection, as well as various service factors and OCI [oil change interval] durations, really don’t matter greatly in this example; the 4.6L engine really does not care what you use or how you drive it.

If you read the section on the Toyota engine, it's short and to the point. It suggests that that particular engine wears really well at longer OCIs.

So, to get back to my question, I suppose it matters which engine I'm talking about, as much as which car. Nevertheless, the above suggests that I should consider following the car manual's suggested OCIs, as they were presumably arrived at after much testing -- and on the theory that the car manufacturer would not intentionally mislead the car owner on maintenance intervals.

Best regards,
Kathie

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
UnThreaded | Threaded | Whole Thread (13) | Ignore Thread Prev Thread | Next Thread
Advertisement