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Author: QuietNorm Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 121061  
Subject: Amended return issue Date: 5/2/2013 10:06 AM
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Greetings Experts --

This year I filed an incorrect return in which I claimed a federal tax refund of $800. Within 48 hours I became aware that I had claimed an erroneous deduction and filed an amended return along with my check for $600.

This week I received an refund check for the $800!!!

I have tried to contact the IRS but no joy. I would like guidance on what to do next. Just sit quietly by until the IRS gets back to me????

Norm
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Author: Wradical Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118567 of 121061
Subject: Re: Amended return issue Date: 5/2/2013 11:19 AM
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Greetings Experts --
This year I filed an incorrect return in which I claimed a federal tax refund of $800. Within 48 hours I became aware that I had claimed an erroneous deduction and filed an amended return along with my check for $600.
This week I received an refund check for the $800!!!
I have tried to contact the IRS but no joy. I would like guidance on what to do next. Just sit quietly by until the IRS gets back to me????
Norm

=====================
I'm not sure there's a problem.
Is the difference in tax supposed to be $1400 or $200? Sounds like $200.

On your amended return, when calculating the tax paid to date (lines 11-18), is the $800 subtracted as "Overpayment if any, shown on original return or adjusted by IRS"? If so, that's the $800 you just got, and it's yours to deposit.

Bill

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Author: PSUEngineer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118568 of 121061
Subject: Re: Amended return issue Date: 5/2/2013 11:56 AM
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I'm not sure there's a problem.
Is the difference in tax supposed to be $1400 or $200? Sounds like $200.


The way I read it, it sounded like $1400 to me.

PSU

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Author: Hohum777 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118569 of 121061
Subject: Re: Amended return issue Date: 5/2/2013 1:19 PM
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Has your check to the "Dept of Treasury/IRS" cleared?

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Author: irasmilo Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118570 of 121061
Subject: Re: Amended return issue Date: 5/2/2013 2:00 PM
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As should be apparent from the various responses you've received, your original post wasn't clear. When you eliminated the deduction, did your expected refund drop from $800 to $200, or did you determine that instead of a refund of $800 you actually owed $600.

If the former, go ahead and deposit the $800 check. If the latter, call the IRS and ask them how to return a refund check you received in error.

Alternatively, you could cash the check and wait for the IRS to ask you for the money back. If you do this, you will be charged interest on the $800 for the time you had it. If you send the check back uncashed, there is no interest charge.

Ira

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Author: irasmilo Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118571 of 121061
Subject: Re: Amended return issue Date: 5/2/2013 2:04 PM
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Has your check to the "Dept of Treasury/IRS" cleared?

That's irrelevant. The IRS will deposit all checks when received, whether "entitled" to the money or not. The amended return will work its way through the system in 2-3 months (or more) and then the tax liability will be compared to the payment record and a bill or refund issued.

Ira

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Author: QuietNorm Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118572 of 121061
Subject: Re: Amended return issue Date: 5/2/2013 9:42 PM
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Sorry for the confusion in my original post!!

What originally appeared to be a $800 refund transitioned into a tax due payment of $600 on the amended return -- a difference of $1400!!!!! Ouch!

The error came about from a medical deduction of approximately $6000 that was later seen to be only $2500. If anyone can tell me how to contact the IRS (a human) by phone I would appreciate it. I would prefer not to have to pay interest on the $800 check I received from the government.

Npr,

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Author: CABob Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118573 of 121061
Subject: Re: Amended return issue Date: 5/2/2013 10:39 PM
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If anyone can tell me how to contact the IRS (a human) by phone I would appreciate it.
http://www.irs.gov/uac/Telephone-Assistance
No guarantee as to how long you will spend in voice mail hell or waiting for someone to answer, but, it shouldn't be too bad since the "busy" season is over. Of course, there is also the sequestration issue.
;-)

Bob

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Author: TMFPMarti Big funky green star, 20000 posts Home Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118574 of 121061
Subject: Re: Amended return issue Date: 5/2/2013 10:45 PM
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What originally appeared to be a $800 refund transitioned into a tax due payment of $600 on the amended return -- a difference of $1400!!!!! Ouch!

You're still ambiguous. Let's try it this way. From Column C of your 1040X the following numbers, please:

line 10
line 16

A note about line 16. It should not include the $600 you sent with the amended return. Let us know if you did include it.

In the meantime, do not cash the $800 check.

Phil
Rule Your Retirement Home Fool

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Author: TMFPMarti Big funky green star, 20000 posts Home Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118575 of 121061
Subject: Re: Amended return issue Date: 5/2/2013 10:46 PM
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P.S. Do NOT call the IRS.

Phil
Rule Your Retirement Home Fool

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Author: QuietNorm Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118576 of 121061
Subject: Re: Amended return issue Date: 5/2/2013 11:34 PM
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Now I am getting confused!!

The actual check I sent the IRS, with the amended return, was $540. (In my original post I rounded this off to $600 just thinking it would keep things simple).


From the 1040X

Column C Line 10 --- 5,479
(Includes the $540 I sent in with the amended return)

Column C Line 16 --- 5,748

Hope this helps. Also, why should I not call the IRS??

Norm

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Author: TMFPMarti Big funky green star, 20000 posts Home Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118577 of 121061
Subject: Re: Amended return issue Date: 5/3/2013 12:51 AM
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From the 1040X

Column C Line 10 --- 5,479
(Includes the $540 I sent in with the amended return)

Column C Line 16 --- 5,748


Am I safe in assuming that it's Line 16, not Line 10, that includes the $540? Line 10 has nothing to do with payments.

Is the $800 refund also an approximation?

What I can glean at the moment is that your original return should have shown tax of $5,479, total payments of $5,208, and a resulting balance due of 271. Instead it showed a refund of $800. (If that's also an approximate number, the precise one would be helpful.) That means your tax was originally understated by $1,071, which should be Line 10, Column B. That would also be the bottom line balance due of a properly prepared 1040X.

I can't for the life of me figure out how you got to $540 due with the amended return. Unless the $800 is not quite the amount and you somehow managed to count that $271 twice....

Let's try this. Starting with line 10 of the amended return, all numbers through the end. We already know why line 10 is different A vs C. For any other line where A is different from C, please explain the difference. Also, while you're there, please make sure that the Column A numbers are what was shown on your original return, and provide the exact amount of the original refund you claimed, which I assume is the same amount as the check they sent you.

Don't call the IRS because even if the person you talked to could find your amended return, which (s)he can't, you'd only confuse them at this point.

Phil
Rule Your Retirement Home Fool

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Author: QuietNorm Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118578 of 121061
Subject: Re: Amended return issue Date: 5/3/2013 1:29 AM
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Is the $800 refund also an approximation?

Yes -- the actual refund was $806!!

I am having trouble understanding why what I have presented seems to be so confusing!! Would it help if I sent you copies of both my original 1040 and the 1040X????

Column A Column B Column C
Orig. Amt Net Change Correct Amt
Line 10 4939 540 5479
Line 11 5748 0 5748 (Fed Tax Withheld)
Line 16 5748

Sorry the columns don't show up the way I typed them due to spacing. The numbers are correct and directly off the 1040X. I don't know how else to present the information.
Originally I calculated a tax due of $4,939 and tax withheld of $5,748 -- resulting in a refund due of $806.

If you give me an email address I can forward a "snapshot" of the 1040X.

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Author: ptheland Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118579 of 121061
Subject: Re: Amended return issue Date: 5/3/2013 3:10 AM
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Originally I calculated a tax due of $4,939 and tax withheld of $5,748 -- resulting in a refund due of $806.

<grinning>
First off, you need a new calculator. Tax of 4,939 less withholding of 5,748 gives me a refund of 809. But that's immaterial at the moment.
</grinning>


Column A Column B Column C
Orig. Amt Net Change Correct Amt
Line 10 4939 540 5479
Line 11 5748 0 5748 (Fed Tax Withheld)
Line 16 5748


(It takes double-secret magic to get columns to line up here at TMF. I could tell you how to do it using the < pre> and < /pre> HTML tags, but then I'd get expelled from the secret society.) ;-)

The rest of your 1040X should look like this:

Line 17 $809
Line 18 $4939
Line 19 $540

Following through the logic, Line 18 subtracts off the refund from your original return, getting you to the correct amount of payments for the year, net of the refund on the original return.

Then you calculate the difference between the corrected tax and the corrected payments to get the new balance due or refund. So your original refund was already accounted for on the 1040X.

As a double check of your logic, the column B amount on line 10 (the change in your tax) matches up nicely with the check you wrote to go with the amended return.

Which all means that the refund check you received is yours to cash.

--Peter

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Author: QuietNorm Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118580 of 121061
Subject: Re: Amended return issue Date: 5/3/2013 9:10 AM
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Thanks Peter --

At 1 AM it is not surprising that this 75-yr old was having trouble adding and subtracting.

You are correct about lines 17, 18 and 19!!!!

I am still a little confused as to why the $809 refund check is mine to cash. This tyro uses TurboTax and the original 1040 showed a $809 refund. The 1040X showed $540 due the IRS. Clearly a swing of $1349.

Yet, if the $809 refund is mine to keep (and spend) then the "swing" is only $540. Must be some fuzzy logic going on in my head -- but I will be more than happy to accept the government's check!!!

Norm (who may start using a Tax Expert in the future).

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Author: TMFPMarti Big funky green star, 20000 posts Home Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118581 of 121061
Subject: Re: Amended return issue Date: 5/3/2013 9:33 AM
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I am still a little confused as to why the $809 refund check is mine to cash. This tyro uses TurboTax and the original 1040 showed a $809 refund. The 1040X showed $540 due the IRS. Clearly a swing of $1349.

Yet, if the $809 refund is mine to keep (and spend) then the "swing" is only $540.


You're confusing yourself through your insistence on looking at checks rather than tax. Your original return understated your tax by $540 (line 10 of the 1040X). Thus you owe $540. Everything else is just reconciling payments.

Spend the money.

Phil
Rule Your Retirement Home Fool

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Author: FlyingDiver Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118582 of 121061
Subject: Re: Amended return issue Date: 5/3/2013 9:44 AM
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Or, to look at it another way, TurboTax knows you already filed, and already got a refund, and assumes you've already cashed the check. It doesn't know whether you filed the original return three weeks ago or three months ago, so it has to assume that.

So now it's telling you what you need to do NOW. Not NOW plus go back in time and not do something you should have already done.

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