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Americans spend twice as much as residents of other developed countries on healthcare, but get lower quality, less efficiency and have the least equitable system.

Just more proof that America is exceptional and the free market always provides the most effective solution, or not.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/06/23/us-usa-healthcare-...

I like the dead last pun.
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America is exceptional and the free market always provides the most effective solution

I'm living temporarily in NYC and dread needing medical care. My SC doctor doesn't want to treat me long-distance any more (refused to prescribe muscle relaxant when I had a back spasm without my comping into the office--no can do, I babysit during the week and DD has no backup). I doubt I could find any doctor who'd take my insurance in NYC (BCBS of South Carolina)--I've already looked up a couple who were recommended to me. I'd probably have to offer cash on the barrelhead to see anyone, depsite monthly insurance premiums. :-(
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When I was insured through BC/BS of SC, I had no problems being treated in other states.

Donna
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When I was insured through BC/BS of SC, I had no problems being treated in other states.



when i had COBRA through BC/BS of Calif... i had trouble with every claim.



.. it's a crap-shoot (IMO)
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when i had COBRA through BC/BS of Calif... i had trouble with every claim.

Methinks BC abd BS are separate companies in Calif. No?

IB
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<<Americans spend twice as much as residents of other developed countries on healthcare, but get lower quality, less efficiency and have the least equitable system.>>



I don't know why my liberals friends are unhappy with the current health care system.


A poor person can walk into any emergency room and get critical health care treatment, and never pay a bill.

The bills are paid by "the rich" who have insurance.


Seattle Pioneer
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A poor person can walk into any emergency room and get critical health care treatment,

True. Mostly.

and never pay a bill.

False. They'll come after you later on....granted, if you're poor ENOUGH they may never GET anything out of you, but they'll take every last dime until you are that poor.

If this were true, none of us would really NEED health insurance at all, would we. "Just don't pay!". Right.

Even among working, middle class people who HAD insurance at the time of a major illness or injury - the #1 cause of bankrupcy? Health care bills. Explian that one.

And if your condition is chronic but not fatal in the next 24 hours? If you need meds? One has to wonder why such a good, "Christian" country like America makes medical need a for-profit business....we're not exactly "What Would Jesus Do" in that respect, are we? "Hey, I just HEALED your blind x@ss, that'll be 5 Denari!".

Of course, the Republicans think that poor people would just clog up emergency rooms for fun if health care were cheap. Cause, man, that's what I do for fun on a Saturday night! Take my BC/BS card and have a good old time! Whooooooo-doggies!
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<<A poor person can walk into any emergency room and get critical health care treatment,

True. Mostly.

and never pay a bill.

False. They'll come after you later on....granted, if you're poor ENOUGH they may never GET anything out of you, but they'll take every last dime until you are that poor.

If this were true, none of us would really NEED health insurance at all, would we. "Just don't pay!". Right.

Even among working, middle class people who HAD insurance at the time of a major illness or injury - the #1 cause of bankrupcy? Health care bills. Explian that one.>>


Just as I said, the poor need never pay a bill.


Seattle Pioneer
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.. it's a crap-shoot (IMO)

Yep. As long as the US continues to support a fractured health insurance system instead of a single health care system, it will remain a crap shoot.
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I don't know why my liberals friends are unhappy with the current health care system.

A poor person can walk into any emergency room and get critical health care treatment, and never pay a bill.


There are only about a hundred serious problems with this situation--which is why it is often quoted by conservatives as an example of how well our system functions. I'll take a crack of a few of the most obvious reasons:

First, emergency room treatment is expensive. So if your going to treat non-emergencies on the public's dime, the ER is a poor place to do it. From a strict cost basis, it would make much more send to fund walk-in clinics and leave the ERs for emergencies. Good luck selling that one to Republicans.

Next, not paying a bill isn't the same as not getting a bill.

Next, ERs are great for emergencies, not so great for other things. If you have asthma, as I do, in the event of a serious attack the ER will give you an injection terbutaline or epinephrine but they won't provide inhalers for daily control.

If a diabetic goes into hypoglycemic shock, he'll get treatment at the ER, and they will amputate a diabetic's gangrenous foot. But they won't give him a check up, supply insulin, or provide dietary advice that would have prevented the ER visit in the first place.

If you break an arm, the ER will put a cast on it, but you don't get physical therapy so you retain full use of the limb when the cast comes off.

And your last comment:

The bills are paid by "the rich" who have insurance.

And you don't see a problem with that?
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when i had COBRA through BC/BS of Calif... i had trouble with every claim.

Methinks BC abd BS are separate companies in Calif. No?



been so long i'm not sure.....

how separate, which i had

think i remember 'bills'/notices labeled both


?
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"The bills are paid by "the rich" who have insurance."

Actually, the bills are mostly paid by the people who can't quite afford insurance. They pay full price if they need care. The insurance companies get huge discounts.

Vickifool
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By SP's logic, we should treat malnutrition in the country by having hungry people walk in to Ruth's Chris Steak House, ordering a porterhouse (medium rare, please) with loaded baked potato, and then walking out without paying. Why would that matter? They can just raise the prices for all the "rich people", can't they?

The idea that Emergency Rooms are set up to do regular or even casual "walk in clinic" type medicine is ridiculous; the expenses are 10 times higher for the same treatments, and you drive those prices even higher because of the staffing requirements necessary to handle such routine matters.

But by all means, let's encourage people to wait until a small medical problem develops into a life-threatening emergency, and then have them come to a hospital Emergency Room for care, and then not pay anything "because rich people have insurance."

Never mind that most people aren't rich, that workers pay for their insurance one way or another, and that those costs are being offloaded onto the middle class in the form of higher benefit costs without better actual benefits for them.

It's a mindset, and you can't break through. Jethro Tull said it best: "Thick as a brick."
 
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The poor get free medical care when they need it. The "rich" with insurance pay the bills.


You don't think they get enough free medical care? Tough.




Seattle Pioneer
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The ER isn't free medical care. period.
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<One has to wonder why such a good, "Christian" country like America makes medical need a for-profit business....we're not exactly "What Would Jesus Do" in that respect, are we? "Hey, I just HEALED your blind x@ss, that'll be 5 Denari!".>

This las comment had me laughing out loud (LOL, for those not in the know) ;) quite literally. Thanks for the chuckles....
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**** doesn't believe his own posts. He says crazy stuff because he is lonely and craves attention.



NTTAWWT!
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"<One has to wonder why such a good, "Christian" country like America makes medical need a for-profit business....we're not exactly "What Would Jesus Do" in that respect, are we? "Hey, I just HEALED your blind x@ss, that'll be 5 Denari!".>"


YOu'll note he never trained anyone, or set up any medical schools, to make sure others had the opportunity to be 'healed'. He just did a few magic trips, then bugged out early.

So he healed ONE blind man?

Big deal.


And , no, we are not a 'christian' country. You are free to do all the charity you want, but I never recall that your buddy Jeezus advocated dipping into your neighbors pockets for your needs.

In fact, I remember him promoting something like 'do not covet thy neighbors assets'.......

Most libs obviously don't subscribe to that.


t.
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<<In fact, I remember him promoting something like 'do not covet thy neighbors assets'.......

Most libs obviously don't subscribe to that.


t. >>



You mean that "soak the rich" isn't part of a Christian catechism?



Seattle Pioneer
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You mean that "soak the rich" isn't part of a Christian catechism?


When Jesus heard this, he said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

Luke 18:22
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Wingnuts are changing the rules on TMF:

I commented on this 0x6 post today:
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**** doesn't believe his own posts. He says crazy stuff because he is lonely and craves attention.

NTTAWWT!

-------------------------------------

Here's what I said:

Hmmmm. . . I doubt that most professionals would consider his behavior healthy. It is difficult to say that there is nothing wrong with unhealthy behavior. But, on the other hand, most people engage in some sorts of unhealthy behavior at least occasionally. So SP is as entitled as the next person to feed his fear an anger by making silly comments on this board.

--------------------------------------

And TMF pulled the post. That is completely absurd and inappropriate. We have several perennial right wing trolls who come regularly to a board labeled, "Retire Early Liberal Edition", and insult the actual liberals who post here. Then, one of their rank has this post pulled?

Now if anyone has been following PA lately they are aware that some new wingnut troll has figured out how to amass dozens of recs within minutes of posting any new post. There are a couple of posters that are often posting 90% of the posts for significant periods of time. And they are bragging about having posts pulled.

I have no problem using the little frowny face to avoid vapid, ill-informed wingnut postings from people who offer no redeeming content whatsoever in their posts. Also, I have never paid much attention to recs, so the new assault on PA posting is a fairly minor annoyance that will go away as soon as enough legitimate posters over there learn to ignore the new troll. But if TMF is going to allow trolls to take over this board with completely unjustified use of the post reporting tool, then it really is unfortunate.
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Again, here's what I said:

<>Hmmmm. . . I doubt that most professionals would consider his behavior healthy. It is difficult to say that there is nothing wrong with unhealthy behavior. But, on the other hand, most people engage in some sorts of unhealthy behavior at least occasionally. So SP is as entitled as the next person to feed his fear an anger by making silly comments on this board.


I'm thinking that if this kind of comment can be pulled, then I will begin reporting every single post that says anything disparaging about political or social views that I hold.
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And TMF pulled the post. That is completely absurd and inappropriate. We have several perennial right wing trolls who come regularly to a board labeled, "Retire Early Liberal Edition", and insult the actual liberals who post here. Then, one of their rank has this post pulled?


wow.

and the post i was responding to .. but not MY post.


beeee-zar.




( suspect the *** can come here and insult all liberals and not get yanked is that liberals aren't FA'g their posts )
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I'm thinking that if this kind of comment can be pulled, then I will begin reporting every single post that says anything disparaging about political or social views that I hold.



just noticed another difference ...

stupid and childish perhaps.... but seems to be the Rule that if you mentions another poster by name in even a barely perceptibly disparaging way --Yanksville

whereas denigrating whole large classes of posters --OKee Dokees
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And TMF pulled the post. That is completely absurd and inappropriate. We have several perennial right wing trolls who come regularly to a board labeled, "Retire Early Liberal Edition", and insult the actual liberals who post here. Then, one of their rank has this post pulled?

TMF has some "pet horses". The poster to whom you refer is one of those. His posts are effectively FA proof, but anything he FA's will go away.

IB
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TMF has some "pet horses". The poster to whom you refer is one of those. His posts are effectively FA proof, but anything he FA's will go away.



possibly a 'pet' ..IMO, more likely he's just better at playing the Rules.


NTTAWWT!



( 'we' (libs) tend to sputter and get personal and name names ... 'he' tends to spew filth, but in a generalized way --which is 'legal' )
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It is certainly amusing to see my liberal friends coaching each other on how to be as obnoxious and insulting as can be to those with whom they disagree.

I suppose these are examples of the famous liberal tolerance for diversity?




Seattle Pioneer
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I have no problem using the little frowny face to avoid vapid, ill-informed wingnut postings from people who offer no redeeming content whatsoever in their posts. Also, I have never paid much attention to recs, so the new assault on PA posting is a fairly minor annoyance that will go away as soon as enough legitimate posters over there learn to ignore the new troll. But if TMF is going to allow trolls to take over this board with completely unjustified use of the post reporting tool, then it really is unfortunate.
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I agree.

The message boards are getting ridiculous. Who pulls the posts on these boards? Does one just have to ask a message to be pulled and it is pulled without any actual thought? In that case I will start asking for some mean spirited, insulting posts to be pulled.
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I suppose these are examples of the famous liberal tolerance for diversity?

Nothing condescending or insulting to a group of people who come to the "Retire Early Liberal Edition" in that statement is there?

People who say reprehensible things about others by misrepresenting their views might think they are clever or superior, but they are not. They are simply reprehensible.

Some come here and try to cloak their ignorance, fear and anger in attacks on those with more knowledge and experience. It is a sad and pathetic practice that only lonely losers would find enjoyable. Yet, we know they exist.
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Some come here and try to cloak their ignorance, fear and anger in attacks on those with more knowledge and experience. It is a sad and pathetic practice that only lonely losers would find enjoyable. Yet, we know they exist.




NTTAWWT!



(i think you've got it .... name no names and there's no violation
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The message boards are getting ridiculous. Who pulls the posts on these boards?

one or two TMFers are in charge


Does one just have to ask a message to be pulled and it is pulled without any actual thought? In that case I will start asking for some mean spirited, insulting posts to be pulled.

they claim every FA is considered individually ..

that even if you FA your own post, it's not pulled without good reason.
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