UnThreaded | Threaded | Whole Thread (19) | Ignore Thread Prev Thread | Next Thread
Author: FoolishVintner Two stars, 250 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 1947758  
Subject: An Idea for Secessionist Traitors/Babies Date: 11/14/2012 9:11 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 65
Whenever observations are made about how marginal tax rates have been set too low, and that thirty years of supply side policies haven't exactly served this country well, inevitably we hear some whiner suggesting that we don't have any right to make these observations. That we should just elect to send more of our own tax money instead to help pay down the debt, and shut up. It's a smarmy, smart-a$$ answer to a serious policy question, but it inevitably gets made.

So in kind, I will offer a similar suggestion to those mad crybabies who are posturing about wanting to secede from the US: nothing is stopping you from self-deportation. We don't want you, we don't need you, we'd be better off without you.
Print the post Back To Top
Author: markand4504 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1836783 of 1947758
Subject: Re: An Idea for Secessionist Traitors/Babies Date: 11/14/2012 9:29 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
that thirty years of supply side policies haven't exactly served this country
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Suppyly side policies? Pray tell? Let's list some of these 'supply side' policies:

-Medicare
-Medicaid
-Social Security
-Welfare
-Unemployment for 2 years
-Food Stamps
-Heating assistance
-Housing assistance
-Confiscating over 1/3rd of corporate income
-Confiscating over 1/3rd of top earners income
-Public sector unions
-The New Deal
-The Great Society
-The War on Poverty

Yeah we have really been hammering away with the 'supply side' policies huh? It's getting way too supply sidey up in hurrr. (forehead slammed into desk)

Mark

Print the post Back To Top
Author: FoolishWaldo Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1836790 of 1947758
Subject: Re: An Idea for Secessionist Traitors/Babies Date: 11/14/2012 9:48 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 6
(forehead slammed into desk)

Well, that explains a lot. If you slam your forehead into the desk often, you should probably seek professional help.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: jerryab Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1836793 of 1947758
Subject: Re: An Idea for Secessionist Traitors/Babies Date: 11/14/2012 9:59 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 22
that thirty years of supply side policies haven't exactly served this country
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Suppyly side policies? Pray tell? Let's list some of these 'supply side' policies:


As all of the listed programs are 45-80 years old, they are not supply-side economics.

Horse and sparrow economics was supply-side (1890s). It failed.

Reaganomics was supply-side (1980s). It failed.

Bushonomics was supply-side (2000s). It failed.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: markand4504 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1836799 of 1947758
Subject: Re: An Idea for Secessionist Traitors/Babies Date: 11/14/2012 10:13 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
As all of the listed programs are 45-80 years old, they are not supply-side economics.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly. They have all been in place, and growing, for the last 45-80 years. Liberal entitlement Keynesian economic policies have been in place for the last 45-80 years.

Oh but Bush cut taxes. Yeah, 39.6% to 35% (the rest Obama is keeping in place). Boy oh boy. Allowing top earners and corporations to keep 65% of their income is soooo supply side. How did we survive.

Mark

PS The Bush tax cuts caused the housing crisis

Print the post Back To Top
Author: jerryab Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1836827 of 1947758
Subject: Re: An Idea for Secessionist Traitors/Babies Date: 11/14/2012 11:58 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 14
They have all been in place, and growing, for the last 45-80 years. Liberal entitlement Keynesian economic policies have been in place for the last 45-80 years.

Funny how there were no problems under Clinton--with the US National Debt expected to be paid off by 2010.

PS The Bush tax cuts caused the housing crisis

No, they were the primary cause of the massive growth of the US debt.

Incompetence of the GWB administration and negligence of the financial sector oversight/regulation, under the belief it was "self regulating" and would businesses "never allow markets to get out of control", was the true cause of the housing crisis.

This alone should be sufficient to relegate conservatives to being an extremely tiny party of documented idiots--because their total failure to understand the relationship business and the economy was supposedly their strong point. Getting THAT wrong merely caused their base to shrug it off. Yet, a rational person would be asking "How could they NOT know that stuff--and let it happen on their watch?". Which is irrefutable proof conservative voters are NOT rational in their thinking--and that is proven by the types of campaigns run by conservatives. All emotion, no facts (fake facts or outright lies are the norm, not the exception).

Print the post Back To Top
Author: markand4504 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1836830 of 1947758
Subject: Re: An Idea for Secessionist Traitors/Babies Date: 11/15/2012 12:05 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
PS The Bush tax cuts caused the housing crisis

No, they were the primary cause of the massive growth of the US debt.
----------------------------------------------------------------
The portion of the Bush tax cuts that Obama wants to expire (top rate 39.6%) 'costs' $70bil per year. What do you think the US debt is right now? The deficit? Hint: It is more than $70bil....by a lot.

Mark

Print the post Back To Top
Author: markand4504 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1836833 of 1947758
Subject: Re: An Idea for Secessionist Traitors/Babies Date: 11/15/2012 12:18 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Funny how there were no problems under Clinton
---------------------------------------------------------
You know what else is funny? Why don't you look up when the baby boomers started retiring. That's when the two most unsustainable entitlement programs began to spin out of control.

Mark

PS Who ran congress under Clinton? I only ask because that's where the final budget resolutions come from.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: 0x6a74 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1836843 of 1947758
Subject: Re: An Idea for Secessionist Traitors/Babies Date: 11/15/2012 1:11 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0

nothing is stopping you from self-deportation. We don't want you, we don't need you, we'd be better off without you.


but where is the Randian Theocracy that will take them?

Print the post Back To Top
Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1836879 of 1947758
Subject: Re: An Idea for Secessionist Traitors/Babies Date: 11/15/2012 9:19 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
"So in kind, I will offer a similar suggestion to those mad crybabies who are posturing about wanting to secede from the US: nothing is stopping you from self-deportation. We don't want you, we don't need you, we'd be better off without you. "


That's exactly what 1 million or so 'rich' folks have told California as they flee to other states that aren't trying to confiscate their hard earned money.

Texas thanks them.

As to succession, remember it was the AMERICANS who succeeded from the British empire over taxation! Kicked the Brits out of their 'own land'.



t.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: wzambon Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1836882 of 1947758
Subject: Re: An Idea for Secessionist Traitors/Babies Date: 11/15/2012 9:24 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
On the other hand, I think the Republican strategy of holding America hostage to make sure that billionaires continue to get free s&it is a winning hand.

secession... geesh!

And the Civil War determined that secession is no longer an option.

Unless, of course, you want to fight another civil war.

I'd prefer not.

Regardless, all secessionists can now drop the pretense of loving the United States.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: wzambon Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1836883 of 1947758
Subject: Re: An Idea for Secessionist Traitors/Babies Date: 11/15/2012 9:25 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
oops... pasted the wrong thing!

Shoulda been:

As to succession, remember it was the AMERICANS who succeeded from the British empire over taxation! Kicked the Brits out of their 'own land'.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: kenora Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1836937 of 1947758
Subject: Re: An Idea for Secessionist Traitors/Babies Date: 11/15/2012 11:09 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
What country would want them? Canada, Australia, UK are all more moderate than the US.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: SpeedBump13 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1836945 of 1947758
Subject: Re: An Idea for Secessionist Traitors/Babies Date: 11/15/2012 11:20 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Re: "Confiscating over one third"

"American corporations use aggressive strategies to pay less — often far less — than their competitors abroad and at home. A Government Accountability Office study released in 2008 found that 55 percent of United States companies paid no federal income taxes during at least one year in a seven-year period it studied."
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/03/business/economy/03rates.h...

2007 Household Income Before Taxes Effective Tax Rate
Top 10% $394,500 20.7%
Top 5% $611,200 20.9%
Top 1% $1,873,000 20.6%
Top 400 $344,831,528 16.6%
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_States...

What other false things do you believe as articles of faith?

Print the post Back To Top
Author: jerryab Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1837010 of 1947758
Subject: Re: An Idea for Secessionist Traitors/Babies Date: 11/15/2012 1:28 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
Funny how there were no problems under Clinton
---------------------------------------------------------
You know what else is funny? Why don't you look up when the baby boomers started retiring. That's when the two most unsustainable entitlement programs began to spin out of control.

PS Who ran congress under Clinton? I only ask because that's where the final budget resolutions come from.


Looks like you have a passion for ignoring what was told to that same conservative-controlled Congress under GWB--in Jan 2001. What they were told was very simple. Given the current conditions and projections, the US debt was expected be paid off by 2010. Plus, there was no expected problem with the retirement of the boomer generation and its impact on the Social Security system.

Just tell us what part of that you do not understand.

And, just to prove I do know of what I write, here it is:

http://www.federalreserve.gov/BOARDDOCS/TESTIMONY/2001/20010...

"These most recent indications have added to the accumulating evidence that the apparent increases in the growth of output per hour are more than transitory."

"Reflecting the uncertainties of forecasting well into the future, neither the OMB nor the CBO projects productivity to continue to improve at the stepped-up pace of the past few years. Both expect productivity growth rates through the next decade to average roughly 2-1/4 to 2-1/2 percent per year--far above the average pace from the early 1970s to the mid-1990s, but still below that of the past five years."

"The most recent projections from the OMB indicate that, if current policies remain in place, the total unified surplus will reach $800 billion in fiscal year 2011, including an on-budget surplus of $500 billion. The CBO reportedly will be showing even larger surpluses. Moreover, the admittedly quite uncertain long-term budget exercises released by the CBO last October maintain an implicit on-budget surplus under baseline assumptions well past 2030 despite the budgetary pressures from the aging of the baby-boom generation, especially on the major health programs.

The most recent projections, granted their tentativeness, nonetheless make clear that the highly desirable goal of paying off the federal debt is in reach before the end of the decade. This is in marked contrast to the perspective of a year ago when the elimination of the debt did not appear likely until the next decade."

Short of an extraordinarily rapid and highly undesirable short-term dissipation of unified surpluses or a transferring of assets to individual privatized accounts, it appears difficult to avoid at least some accumulation of private assets by the government.

"For example, transferring government saving to individual private accounts as a means of avoiding the accumulation of private assets in the government accounts could significantly affect how social security will be funded in the future.

Short of some privatization, it would be preferable in my judgment to allocate the required private assets to the social security trust funds, rather than to on-budget accounts. To be sure, such trust fund investments are subject to the same concerns about political pressures as on-budget investments would be. The expectation that the retirement of the baby-boom generation will eventually require a drawdown of these fund balances does, however, provide some mitigation of these concerns.

Returning to the broader picture, I continue to believe, as I have testified previously, that all else being equal, a declining level of federal debt is desirable because it holds down long-term real interest rates, thereby lowering the cost of capital and elevating private investment. ... Indeed, in almost any credible baseline scenario, short of a major and prolonged economic contraction, the full benefits of debt reduction are now achieved before the end of this decade--a prospect that did not seem likely only a year or even six months ago. "

"Special care must be taken not to conclude that wraps on fiscal discipline are no longer necessary. At the same time, we must avoid a situation in which we come upon the level of irreducible debt so abruptly that the only alternative to the accumulation of private assets would be a sharp reduction in taxes and/or an increase in expenditures, because these actions might occur at a time when sizable economic stimulus would be inappropriate. In other words, budget policy should strive to limit potential disruptions by making the on-budget surplus economically inconsequential when the debt is effectively paid off."

"In contrast to most spending programs, tax reductions have downside limits. They cannot be open-ended.

Lately there has been much discussion of cutting taxes to confront the evident pronounced weakening in recent economic performance. Such tax initiatives, however, historically have proved difficult to implement in the time frame in which recessions have developed and ended."

"The reason for caution, of course, rests on the tentativeness of our projections. What if, for example, the forces driving the surge in tax revenues in recent years begin to dissipate or reverse in ways that we do not now foresee?"

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: jgc123 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1837201 of 1947758
Subject: Re: An Idea for Secessionist Traitors/Babies Date: 11/15/2012 6:55 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
"but where is the Randian Theocracy that will take them?"

In all fairness, we could give them two choices: 1)Somalia for the Randians and 2)Saudi Arabia for a theocratic regime.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: NoSeeUm Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1837202 of 1947758
Subject: Re: An Idea for Secessionist Traitors/Babies Date: 11/15/2012 6:56 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1

Yeah we have really been hammering away with the 'supply side' policies huh? It's getting way too supply sidey up in hurrr. (forehead slammed into desk)


You really need to stop doing that, Marky.
The brain damage is beginning to show.

At least wear a helmet.
It'll delay the inevitable.


Jimbo

Print the post Back To Top
Author: markand4504 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1837252 of 1947758
Subject: Re: An Idea for Secessionist Traitors/Babies Date: 11/15/2012 9:45 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
You really need to stop doing that, Marky.
The brain damage is beginning to show.

At least wear a helmet.
It'll delay the inevitable.


Jimbo
------------------------------------------------------------------
The above posting received a rec. You know who you are. Do you give your dog a treat when he takes a dump on the couch? Just curious.

Mark

Print the post Back To Top
Author: markand4504 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1837253 of 1947758
Subject: Re: An Idea for Secessionist Traitors/Babies Date: 11/15/2012 9:52 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
The above posting received a rec. You know who you are. Do you give your dog a treat when he takes a dump on the couch? Just curious.

Mark
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Okay I will pre-emptively apologize to Jimbo for the last posting. I like Jimbo. I did not mean to compare him to a dog taking a poo. Very bad analogy. My fault. Apologies to Jimbo...........but still why would you rec.......nevermind.

Mark

Print the post Back To Top
UnThreaded | Threaded | Whole Thread (19) | Ignore Thread Prev Thread | Next Thread
Advertisement