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Author: btresist Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 25071  
Subject: Re: Ashes to ashes, ... Date: 7/15/2014 1:14 PM
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An intelligent origin is something outside of creation that brings everything into existence. A non-intelligent origin (I take this to mean that some physical law started it) is part of nature but the origin of the universe marks the beginning of time and space.

You seem to be simply defining intelligent origin as being supernatural. I don't see why that has to be the case. We both agree that physical laws and intelligence exist within the universe. You assert that physical laws can also cause the physical universe to come into existence and still be considered natural. Why can't intelligence have the same property?

I suppose I could phrase my point as this. If the natural universe had an origin, then any thing existing "prior" to that origin lies beyond our ability to examine by the scientific process. It is therefore all equally speculative with respect to science, whether multiverse, string theory, god, or eternal laws existing in some sort of Platonic realm. At that point, it is all a leap of faith.
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