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Author: legalwordwarrior Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 44677  
Subject: An Open Letter Date: 4/23/2013 12:50 PM
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To the motorcycle cop who pulled in behind me with your lights flashing:

I have nothing to excuse my driving. I came upon the spot where you were hidden in plain sight, I looked at the speedometer and gulped. I was in a convertible sports car obviously going faster than the posted speed limit. I knew I was not only going to be late to my appointment but I was going to get a ticket...except I didn't.

You pulled in behind me, apparently read my PGR bumper sticker and then switched lanes. You then sped up and pulled over the red Kia Soul that was ahead of me.

To the Kia Soul owner:

When you cut me off pulling up to the intersection it was a little annoying. When you sped up thinking that I was about to be pulled over? Now that was a little instant Karma, wasn't it?

LWW
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Author: mbarr Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41697 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/23/2013 12:55 PM
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PGR bumper sticker

Pabst Green Ribbon?

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Author: Windowseat Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41698 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/23/2013 1:13 PM
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PGR = Patriot Guard Riders

http://www.patriotguard.org/

Nancy

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Author: RaplhCramden Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41700 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/24/2013 10:00 AM
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You pulled in behind me, apparently read my PGR bumper sticker and then switched lanes. You then sped up and pulled over the red Kia Soul that was ahead of me.

PGR Patriot Guard Riders, right?

Is American patriotism really behind justice as a team sport?

When did it become a good thing to applaud using the sworn power of force of the state to give a pass to those who wear the team colors differentially against those who don't? When did due process start meaning look for the Patrolmen's Benevolent Association card or an indication that a relative is "on the job" because THAT is what should make the difference in how the law is enforced?

This is part of the filthy side of government, the corruption which seems to always show up at some level or another. Not something I'm applauding.

On the other hand, maybe the cop pulled over the Kia because it was going faster than you, or the way he cut in front of you looked more deserving of a ticket. In that case, bully on a nice ride not tickedted!

R:

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Author: legalwordwarrior Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41701 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/24/2013 10:39 AM
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This is part of the filthy side of government, the corruption which seems to always show up at some level or another. Not something I'm applauding.

On the other hand, maybe the cop pulled over the Kia because it was going faster than you, or the way he cut in front of you looked more deserving of a ticket. In that case, bully on a nice ride not tickedted!


The Kia was ahead of me, so maybe the officer just figured he could make more money off the Kia. DH asked me if it was possibly Blair, an officer who is also a fellow member, but I have no idea, I just know that I was definitely deserving, since I was about 5mph over the posted limit. But the Kia sped up as soon as he saw the officer behind me, so maybe it was just the bigger fish?

Tomorrow starts a week long series of funerals for those first responders lost in the explosion. Maybe he figured I'll need the extra money for gas?

LWW

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Author: LOTROQueen Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41702 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/24/2013 11:34 AM
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I was about 5mph over the posted limit.

They actually give tickets for that?

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Author: BigKahoona Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41703 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/24/2013 12:08 PM
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When did it become a good thing to applaud using the sworn power of force of the state to give a pass to those who wear the team colors differentially against those who don't?


It has been a thing since the New Testament, at the very least.

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Author: BigKahoona Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41704 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/24/2013 12:31 PM
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The Kia was ahead of me, so maybe the officer just figured he could make more money off the Kia.


The Kia had more drug forfeiture potential.

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Author: legalwordwarrior Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41705 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/24/2013 12:32 PM
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They actually give tickets for that?

In town? Absolutely. On the highway, not so much. I once got a warning for doing 28 in a 25. To be fair on that one I was going downhill :0)

LWW

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Author: qazulight Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41706 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/24/2013 12:38 PM
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I was about 5mph over the posted limit.

They actually give tickets for that?


With the speed limits on rural roads at 75, I wouldn't give tickets for 5 over. I would take the offenders the jail.

The speed limits set by the state (Not the cities, and counties) are very liberal to the point of being dangerous.

Yes 1 over can and should get you a ticket.

Cheers
Qazulight

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Author: sofaking6 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41707 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/24/2013 4:37 PM
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The speed limits set by the state (Not the cities, and counties) are very liberal to the point of being dangerous.

Driving fast is only dangerous if you're a bad driver.

6

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Author: PSUEngineer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41708 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/24/2013 4:51 PM
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Driving fast is only dangerous if you're a bad driver.

All drivers are above average.

PSU

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Author: Myownigloo Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41709 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/24/2013 4:55 PM
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Driving fast is only dangerous if you're a bad driver.

Or if you encounter one.

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Author: joycets Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41710 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/24/2013 5:31 PM
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I was about 5mph over the posted limit.

They actually give tickets for that?


---------Heck, when DH was in the Fiat X 1/9 ( green )they would try to give him tickets for standing still. He still shares the story of the cop who asked what year his Triumph was, to which he spouted I would never OWN a British Car. so it depends what you drive.

jts

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Author: joycets Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41711 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/24/2013 5:33 PM
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I got a ticket for going downhill over 60 on a very hilly 1431 in a 72 vw, but that is the only way to make it up the next hill over about 28 mph in some cars.

(I believe it had just switched to 45 around there).


(this was some years and many cars ago)

jts

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Author: sofaking6 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41712 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/24/2013 7:16 PM
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All drivers are above average.

But I...I am excellent.

6

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Author: sofaking6 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41713 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/24/2013 7:17 PM
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Or if you encounter one.

Everyone else on the road is a horrible driver; become aware of that fact and you drastically reduce the risk to yourself.

6

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Author: BigKahoona Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41714 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/24/2013 8:36 PM
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Everyone else on the road is a horrible driver; become aware of that fact and you drastically reduce the risk to yourself.

6



I'm an excellent driver.

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Author: wzambon Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41715 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/24/2013 9:21 PM
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90% of drivers identify themselves as "excellent drivers"

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Author: wzambon Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41716 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/24/2013 9:22 PM
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actually, I think it was... "90% of drivers identify themselves as better than average drivers."

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Author: discurro Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41717 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/24/2013 9:31 PM
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But I...I am excellent.

Well, that is obvious. But how do you drive?

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Author: qazulight Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41718 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/24/2013 9:36 PM
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Driving fast is only dangerous if you're a bad driver.

6

Driving fast is dangerous period. It is more dangerous when in the company of bad drivers.

In Texas the speed limit on state highways, highways with no shoulders, with people walking across the road to get the mail, is 75 mph. This includes areas with limited site distance like hills and curves.

This speed limit applies at night, in the fog, while raining, it applies in the morning when the deer decide to cross the road and at dusk when the wild boars are moving around.

75 is fast enough, 80 is too fast.

Cheers
Qazulight

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Author: legalwordwarrior Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41720 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/24/2013 11:12 PM
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In Texas the speed limit on state highways, highways with no shoulders, with people walking across the road to get the mail, is 75 mph. This includes areas with limited site distance like hills and curves.

Where have you seen 75 in those conditions? I know 6 between here and Grimes Co. line is 75, but then it drops to 65 and even 55 right around Waller. 105 is only 65-70 between Navasota and Conroe.

Last week, I didn't hit a single stretch of road between here and Longview that was above 70. Which of course, doesn't mean I wasn't going 75...

LWW

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Author: qazulight Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41721 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/24/2013 11:24 PM
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Hwy 21 between Nacogdoches and San Augustine.

Cheers
Qazulight

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Author: qazulight Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41722 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/24/2013 11:50 PM
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21 to the west may be down to 70, still fast for the old and narrow road, but that would be below 75.

I suspect that from College station to Longview you would have taken 79 which is like 103 a 75 mile an hour type road.

Even though they are not as bad as 21, 75 is moving for a road that can have farm tractors on it.

So, how did you get to Longview? Did you do the biker rally last week in Nac? We had the OTT (Oldest Town in Texas) rally last week end?

From College Station to Longview I think I would ave come up through Madisonville, there is a decent BBQ place in a gas station across from Buckees. I always strech my legs under the Trinity river bridge and see how the barn swallows are doing in the spring. in the fall I stop at Rattle Snake ranch for Pecans. Then up 21 past the ancient Pepper tree, then Caddo Mounds.

I would turn at Alto and run north to 79 then catch 322 out of Henderson.

I just can't imagine it wouldn't be 75 most of the way, but maybe the counties have lowered the speed limits, I know they are allowed to petition the state to do that.

Cheers
Qazulight

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Author: Retrograde Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41723 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/24/2013 11:52 PM
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90% of drivers identify themselves as "excellent drivers"

67.4% of statistics are made up.

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Author: InconclusiveFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41724 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/25/2013 5:21 AM
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"They actually give tickets for that?"

As a side note, be careful on military installations - thry'll tend to give tickets for 5 mph over speed limit or less. In fact, when we hire new employees (which isn't happening much these days) we make note of that to them on orientation day: do not speed or you will get a ticket.

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Author: InconclusiveFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41725 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/25/2013 5:22 AM
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"Driving fast is only dangerous if you're a bad driver."

Welcome to NJ.

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Author: wzambon Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41726 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/25/2013 9:42 AM
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90% of drivers identify themselves as "excellent drivers"

67.4% of statistics are made up.

Yes, perhaps, but.....

http://money.cnn.com/2011/09/21/autos/toyota_auto_safety.for...

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Author: ChiliChild Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41727 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/25/2013 10:30 AM
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In Texas the speed limit on state highways, highways with no shoulders, with people walking across the road to get the mail, is 75 mph. This includes areas with limited site distance like hills and curves.


A bit of a blanket and inaccurate statement. This is not true throughout the state. Interstates, yes, even 80 in some areas, but not ALL state highways, the Hill Country being one example.

http://www.txdot.gov/driver/laws/speed-limits/approved.html
MOST of the highways listed are interstates.

"As of September 2011, state law allows TxDOT to create higher speed limit on any state highway if found to be reasonable and safe through an engineering study. Each new 75 or 80 mph speed limit must be approved by the Texas Transportation Commission."


Chili

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Author: legalwordwarrior Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41728 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/25/2013 12:19 PM
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So, how did you get to Longview? Did you do the biker rally last week in Nac? We had the OTT (Oldest Town in Texas) rally last week end?

Missed the rally in Nacogdoches, we were doing a MArine Corps League Poker Run in Brazos Valley. Would have loved to checked it out. Maybe next year.

From College Station to Longview I think I would have come up through Madisonville, there is a decent BBQ place in a gas station across from Buckees. I always strech my legs under the Trinity river bridge and see how the barn swallows are doing in the spring. in the fall I stop at Rattle Snake ranch for Pecans. Then up 21 past the ancient Pepper tree, then Caddo Mounds.

I don't know about the BBQ place across from it, but Buccees has some stuffed chickens and pork loins that are awesome. I always take a cooler with me and stock up on the way home. I keep meaning to stop and take a pic of that poor pepper tree! Maybe next trip. I did stop at the Coddo Mounds a few years ago and checked out the museum. It was a nice break.

We take 21 up through Madisonville, Midway, Crockett and Alto, then through Rusk to Ponta, take that really narrow and curvy 2278 to 79 in order to bypass New Summerfield and then take the loop around Henderson. It's 70 most of the way, except for where it drops to 55-65 as you go through places like Weches.

I just can't imagine it wouldn't be 75 most of the way, but maybe the counties have lowered the speed limits, I know they are allowed to petition the state to do that.

From what I understood, the limits are allowed to be raised, but won't be able to take effect until the signage is changed. As of last week the signage was still in place with the lower limits.

LWW

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Author: FordLove Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41729 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/25/2013 1:18 PM
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"Driving fast is only dangerous if you're a bad driver."

Welcome to NJ.


It is fun to cut across three lanes of traffic to take your exit at the last second.

That said, baby brother moved from Boston to Atlanta a ways back. He said he felt safer in Boston. The drivers in Boston where nuts, however everyone was paying a lot of attention to the road. The GA drivers were not crazy, and looked like they were a lot safer. However most were lost in their own head simply because the roads where not in a state of anarchy.

He just liked where there were crazy drivers paying a lot of attention instead of seeming normal drivers paying no attention at all.

But I learned to drive in NJ so I must be good, I'm still breathing after all.

Ford
Or lucky

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Author: InconclusiveFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41730 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/25/2013 2:30 PM
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"But I learned to drive in NJ so I must be good, I'm still breathing after all."

I learned to drive when NJ still had a lot of traffic circles. Those things were absolutely nuts. If you could drive one of those, you could drive anywhere. I remember my long-ago first trip to California after hearing Johnny Carson talk about how bad the California freeways were. I couldn't understand it. They were a piece of cake compared to, say, Rt 3 or Rt 46 in Northern Jersey.

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Author: legalwordwarrior Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41731 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/25/2013 2:57 PM
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Well, it's not an exhaustive list of roads, but it is representative of the roads that allow 75 now. There's a long stretch of Hwy 6, including the part that cuts right through our town, has been 75 since late 2012 and didn't make the list.

LWW

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Author: FordLove Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41732 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/25/2013 4:02 PM
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I learned to drive when NJ still had a lot of traffic circles. Those things were absolutely nuts. If you could drive one of those, you could drive anywhere

Not sure what the problem was with those. Every NJ circle did have its own particular right of way rules, but as long as you were willing to just go for it you would be ok. I never thought they were hard at all. My wife, who grew up in PA outside Philly, hated them.

She was appalled by the amount of them in the UK. But the UK roundabout is an simple thing compared to the NJ circle where someone with the right of way might never slow to under 55.

Then again she hates jug handles and I prefer them to left hand turns on busy roads.

Ford

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Author: PSUEngineer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41733 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/25/2013 4:06 PM
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I learned to drive when NJ still had a lot of traffic circles.

Had? Around here, they're adding more all the time. I hate people who stop before entering even when there is no traffic.

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Author: InconclusiveFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41734 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/25/2013 5:12 PM
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"I hate people who stop before entering even when there is no traffic."

Exactly - we learned that you sped up as you entered the circle and never looked back. That was some real driving.

My college Summer job was maintaining outdoor swimming pools at a rich kids day camp, and 2 of the 3 pools used liquid chlorine. Once or twice a month, I'd fill the old junker Chevy van with reusable 5 gallon containers and take them to a commercial pool supply place. I'd have to drive through several circles to get there. Coming back with a van full of full 5 gallon liquid chlorine containers through those crazy circles was quite the trip. I always had visions of the van tipping over and me being blown into the next dimension. Like anybody cared about OSHA regulations? Not us.

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Author: sofaking6 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41735 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/25/2013 6:12 PM
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Had? Around here, they're adding more all the time. I hate people who stop before entering even when there is no traffic.

Are you guys talking about cloverleafs?

6

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Author: PSUEngineer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41736 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/25/2013 7:47 PM
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Are you guys talking about cloverleafs?

I'm talking about roundabouts.

http://www.ct.gov/dot/lib/dot/low.jpg

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Author: InconclusiveFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41737 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/25/2013 8:25 PM
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This is the one I learned on. It has long since been replaced by a traditional intersection. I still like the old circles; much mre fun to drive:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eatontown_Circle


Good image of typical NJ traffic circle at this page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_traffic_circles_in_New_...

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Author: InconclusiveFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41738 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/25/2013 8:26 PM
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"Many traffic circles became notorious for having frequent accidents and being confusing, especially for non-locals. The confusion frequently is the result of ignorance of the elementary traffic law which governs right of way while using traffic circles, NJSA 39:4-90, "The driver of a vehicle approaching an intersection shall yield the right of way to a vehicle which has entered the intersection. When 2 vehicles enter an intersection at the same time the driver of the vehicle on the left shall yield the right of way to the driver of the vehicle on the right."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_traffic_circles_in_New_...

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Author: LOTROQueen Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41739 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/25/2013 9:18 PM
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I'm talking about roundabouts.


Roundabouts and traffic circles are different.

http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20090621/COLUMNIST/9062...

Circles are larger and traffic moves at higher speeds. Roundabouts are smaller and drivers are supposed to slow down at least a little. (Yes, in a roundabout drivers should slow way down, but I'm describing how they actually work in NJ.)

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Author: Windowseat Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41740 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/25/2013 9:50 PM
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There's a traffic circle in England that consists of five roundabout arranged around a central roundabout.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(Swindon)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sud6iEh28ZM

Nancy

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Author: joycets Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41742 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/26/2013 1:13 AM
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I'm rather surprised that 281 out of Burnet is up to 75,but most of the fast roads and all of the 80 mph are "toll roads" so they are probably somewhat lightly used, at least I'm not going there (unless I have a really really really good reason).

js

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Author: InconclusiveFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41747 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/26/2013 7:12 AM
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"Yes, in a roundabout drivers should slow way down, but I'm describing how they actually work in NJ"

Slow down in NJ? Where? What's that joke: In most of the country, yellow light means "slow down." In NJ, it means speed up.

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Author: RaplhCramden Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41748 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/26/2013 10:52 AM
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Many traffic circles became notorious for having frequent accidents and being confusing, especially for non-locals.

NJ, probably my favorite state to drive in. NJ drivers are the best! My favorite NJ driving joke was crashing in to out-of-staters ahead of you who stopped at the yellow lights (which seemed to last about a minute in NJ).

I loved the traffic circles when I was going somewhere i hadn't been before, because I could stay in the circle circling around (with the right of way the whole time) until I figured out for sure which exit from the circle I wanted. Try doing that in a traditional intersection.

Ironically, PA, right next to NJ, has the worst drivers in the country. Not Philly but east of there. PA is the only state I have ever seen people drive to the end of an entrance ramp to a fast road and STOP. And I have seen it many times. Farmers.

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Author: RaplhCramden Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41749 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/26/2013 10:56 AM
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75 is fast enough, 80 is too fast.

Sure, cite early morning fog and deer to prove that 80 is too fast on a long straight road in the middle of a clear dry day in the middle of nowhere. Very American.

I have done 85-100 mph for thousands of miles on a long-ago very fun trip to Europe. Came back stuck doing 55 mph on the New York State thruway and realized that 1) The U.S. is a third world country and 2) a lot of traffic laws are made by morons who couldn't drive their way out of a paper bag.

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Author: InconclusiveFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41750 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/26/2013 11:14 AM
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"I have done 85-100 mph for thousands of miles on a long-ago very fun trip to Europe."

I don't think my car's engine could survive an extended trip at those sustained speeds!

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Author: qazulight Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41751 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/26/2013 12:20 PM
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75 is fast enough, 80 is too fast.

Sure, cite early morning fog and deer to prove that 80 is too fast on a long straight road in the middle of a clear dry day in the middle of nowhere. Very American.

I have done 85-100 mph for thousands of miles on a long-ago very fun trip to Europe. Came back stuck doing 55 mph on the New York State thruway and realized that 1) The U.S. is a third world country and 2) a lot of traffic laws are made by morons who couldn't drive their way out of a paper bag.


Strawman!

Texas has implemented generous speed limits. 80 on the long straight interstates with limited access and 75 on the lessor roads. 70 on roads with no shoulders in rural areas.

There is no need to disrespect the law in Texas.

New York? I don't know about New York. Don't care either.

This morning I was behind some slow traffic on Highway 21. We were moving slow because road construction had a mile or so down to one lane and the pilot car was moving us through in caravans. After we cleared the construction we were picking up speed slowly. About 2 miles out, the speed limit was up to 70 but we were still stuck behind a truck and trailer doing about 55. Suddenly the tractor trailer in front of me slowed quickly and a 1 ton dually pulling a trailer swerved into the on coming traffic lane, (there was no traffic) he started to swerve back then ran off into the grass on the opposite side of the road. It was like he pulled off of the road, (mostly) and stopped. A couple of people were out and approaching the truck before I could even get into the area, so I kept going. However, as I passed it looked like the driver was shook up, or had had a seizure. If it had happened at 70 we probably would have had a pile up. At 75 maybe a fatality.

The speed limits in Texas are generous.

Cheers
Qazulight

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Author: qazulight Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41752 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/26/2013 12:35 PM
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I have done 85-100 mph for thousands of miles on a long-ago very fun trip to Europe. Came back stuck doing 55 mph on the New York State thruway and realized that 1) The U.S. is a third world country and 2) a lot of traffic laws are made by morons who couldn't drive their way out of a paper bag.

In the 80s I made the run from Munich to the Zugspitze. It is about a 100 km. We made the run in 30 minutes.

On the Autoban we came up behind an VW microbus and had to slow down a little before we could get around him. We were accelerating up to our max speed of around 220 kph when a Mercedes with Grandpa, Grandma and there friends came up behind us an flashed lights for us to move over.

Do you know how quick you can pass a VW bus doing 80 kph when you are doing a 160 kph? It don't take long. The Mercedes must have been doing 250 kph.

Later that same trip, we had to rent a van and move some equipment from Munich to Stuttgart. The road runs up into the Black Forrest. Vans like ours were limited to 80 Kph. Cars passed us continuously, until we got to the high point of the forest where there was fog and an 87 car pile up.

That trip was not so fun as the one to the Zugspitze.

Cheers
Qazulight

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Author: FiddleDeeDee Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41753 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/26/2013 1:39 PM
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With the speed limits on rural roads at 75, I wouldn't give tickets for 5 over. I would take the offenders the jail.

The speed limits set by the state (Not the cities, and counties) are very liberal to the point of being dangerous.

Yes 1 over can and should get you a ticket.

Cheers
Qazulight


And some of us drive below or at the speed limit, and get harrassed for doing so.

Will you please pull over the jerk behind me who is riding right on my bumper??

Andrea

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Author: qazulight Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41754 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/26/2013 1:56 PM
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And some of us drive below or at the speed limit, and get harrassed for doing so.

Will you please pull over the jerk behind me who is riding right on my bumper??


Andrea,

Fortunately I am not a cop, so I probably would get in trouble for that.

Cheers
Qazulight

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Author: FiddleDeeDee Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41755 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/26/2013 2:08 PM
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Fortunately I am not a cop, so I probably would get in trouble for that.

Cheers
Qazulight


LOL, Qaz

A

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Author: sofaking6 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41757 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/26/2013 3:41 PM
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The speed limits in Texas are generous.

Whatever you say, gramps.

6

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Author: sofaking6 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41758 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/26/2013 3:43 PM
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And some of us drive below or at the speed limit, and get harrassed for doing so.

Will you please pull over the jerk behind me who is riding right on my bumper??


I know this thread already happened, but seriously: if you're the slowest one on the road, then YOU are the problem. If you're the slowest one in your lane, then YOU are the problem.


6

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Author: chk999 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41759 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/26/2013 4:15 PM
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The speed limits in Texas are generous.

Whatever you say, gramps.

6


And stay off his lawn!

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Author: MacNugget Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41762 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/26/2013 6:01 PM
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Will you please pull over the jerk behind me who is riding right on my bumper??

http://macnugget.org/crud/whichlane.jpg

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Author: legalwordwarrior Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41763 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/26/2013 9:18 PM
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I'm rather surprised that 281 out of Burnet is up to 75,but most of the fast roads and all of the 80 mph are "toll roads" so they are probably somewhat lightly used, at least I'm not going there (unless I have a really really really good reason).

Oh yeah, I'd forgotten that the toll road off 290 just past Ennis going to Round Rock is also 80.

Stella likes that road ;0)

LWW

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Author: legalwordwarrior Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41764 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/26/2013 9:21 PM
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I don't think my car's engine could survive an extended trip at those sustained speeds!

Aww, that's kinda sad.

LWW

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Author: benjd25 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41765 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/26/2013 10:55 PM
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I know this thread already happened, but seriously: if you're the slowest one on the road, then YOU are the problem. If you're the slowest one in your lane, then YOU are the problem.

Bulls$%t. When a large majority of people want to drive faster than is safe, the large majority is the problem.

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Author: legalwordwarrior Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41766 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/27/2013 9:45 AM
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Bulls$%t. When a large majority of people want to drive faster than is safe, the large majority is the problem.

When the large majority of people want to drive faster than is safe, they write their state congresscritters and get the speed limits changed.

But the rule remains the same: slower traffic keep right. That doesn't mean slower than the speed limit, it means slower than the flow of traffic. If it's unsafe, that nice police officer who didn't pull me over will pull over the vehicle going faster than me :0)

LWW

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Author: yeilBagheera Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41767 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/27/2013 2:20 PM
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her in Alaska, there is a catch-all phrase that often results in a citation after a crash

10. Basic Speed Limits: Here is how fast you’re allowed to drive, regardless of whether a sign is present: (1) 15 miles per hour in an alley; (2) 20 miles per hour in a business district; (3) 25 miles per hour in a residential district; or (4) 55 miles per hour on any other roadway. You are also required to slow down when hazards, weather and other “conditions” make it “reasonable and prudent” to slow down. Basically, the law allows the police to ticket you after-the-fact, just for “driving too fast for conditions.” Good luck with your insurance, once that happens. 13 AAC 02.275.

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Author: qazulight Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41768 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/28/2013 12:02 AM
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I was surprised today, Highway 190 west of Lampasses was 70 mph. The road was clear,straight and empty.

Cheers
Qazulight (from San Angelo)

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Author: joycets Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41772 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/29/2013 12:40 AM
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But the rule remains the same: slower traffic keep right. That doesn't mean slower than the speed limit, it means slower than the flow of traffic. If it's unsafe, that nice police officer who didn't pull me over will pull over the vehicle going faster than me :0)

LWW ---------------
--------------------- of course where I live there is only one lane on each side for the 10 miles to the grocery and post office (etc.)

jts

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Author: legalwordwarrior Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41773 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/29/2013 8:27 AM
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of course where I live there is only one lane on each side for the 10 miles to the grocery and post office (etc.)

Good point, you are pretty much in the middle of nowhere!

LWW

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Author: sofaking6 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41775 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/29/2013 12:39 PM
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Bulls$%t. When a large majority of people want to drive faster than is safe, the large majority is the problem.

No, it's really not.

6

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Author: joycets Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41778 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/30/2013 1:05 AM
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of course where I live there is only one lane on each side for the 10 miles to the grocery and post office (etc.)

Good point, you are pretty much in the middle of nowhere!

LWW
was particularly interesting this morning while DH was taking the Newly Rebuilt Front End 82 Benz to get aligned and could NOT go over 40 or less due to the way the unalignment was trying to eat tires. All is well now, aligned, passed inspection, next car to work on is mine & I drive his. (it wasn't too bad and he managed to wave most of the people around him).

jts

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Author: sofaking6 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41781 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/30/2013 5:37 PM
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So, I should speed?

Sigh.


If you have to choose between speeding and being a moving hazard to everyone else on the road, then yes, please speed! If you're not going to get a ticket for it, then why drive slower than everyone else? You might as well put a big red blinking light on your car that says, "FRIGHTENED AND UNPREDICTABLE DRIVER INSIDE".

6

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Author: sofaking6 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41782 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/30/2013 5:43 PM
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Bulls$%t. When a large majority of people want to drive faster than is safe, the large majority is the problem.

I agree.


When a large majority of people agree that a certain range of speeds is safe, and you feel that a much slower speed is safe, it not only interrupts the flow of traffic (every single time someone has to slow down and then move over to get around you) but it draws all of the other drivers' attention to you and off of the road in front of them, because they correctly identify you as the biggest and most immediate risk to them. Like if you're in a raft on a river, and there's a big rock in the middle. That's what you're going to look at.

I can't tell you what to do; I can only give you what I feel is a realistic description of how your behavior affects those around you, and I'm only harping on it because I think it's important, not to shame you or make you feel badly. I don't want to do that, and if I have I apologize.

6

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Author: FiddleDeeDee Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41783 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/30/2013 5:43 PM
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If you have to choose between speeding and being a moving hazard to everyone else on the road, then yes, please speed! If you're not going to get a ticket for it, then why drive slower than everyone else? You might as well put a big red blinking light on your car that says, "FRIGHTENED AND UNPREDICTABLE DRIVER INSIDE".

You sound as if you have road rage. For heaven's sake, lighten up!

Do you normally bully people on the road? Maybe that's why you think there are "FRIGHTENED AND UNPREDICTABLE DRIVERS INSIDE" ?

Take a breath.

Andrea

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Author: FiddleDeeDee Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41784 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/30/2013 5:44 PM
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can't tell you what to do; I can only give you what I feel is a realistic description of how your behavior affects those around you, and I'm only harping on it because I think it's important, not to shame you or make you feel badly. I don't want to do that, and if I have I apologize.

Sorry, but you are making me feel badly.

Problem is we have so very little courtesy on the road or even in internet chat rooms.

Andrea

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Author: discurro Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41785 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/30/2013 5:53 PM
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You sound as if you have road rage. For heaven's sake, lighten up!

Do you normally bully people on the road? Maybe that's why you think there are "FRIGHTENED AND UNPREDICTABLE DRIVERS INSIDE" ?

Take a breath.


I think you are a little overly sensitive, and maybe a little frightened and unpredictable?

Bottom line, the differential in speed between vehicles is more of a safety issue than the absolute speed most of the time. Having said that, I also realize some folks are frightened and unpredictable at higher speeds and should not drive at those speeds. For you folks, please stay to the right. Yes, you will annoy some folks who are doing an end run around the right to get past other frightened and unpredictable folks, but for the most part, the rest of us will appreciate it that you know your limitations, but are not forcing those limitations on us.

If you are not moving with the flow of traffic, you are a traffic hazard...whether that be because you are moving significantly faster or slower than the folks around you. Since the basic rule is "pass on the left", if you are not in the right most lane and you have someone behind you and no one in front of you, move to the right. If you are already in the right most lane, try to keep relatively close to the flow of traffic.

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Author: sofaking6 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41786 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/30/2013 5:55 PM
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You sound as if you have road rage. For heaven's sake, lighten up!

I have some road rage...I wasn't shouting, just using all caps for the sign imagery. And per your next comment, I see anyway that you aren't reading what I'm writing, so no need to continue the discussion.

6

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Author: Windowseat Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41787 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/30/2013 6:37 PM
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I know this thread already happened, but seriously: if you're the slowest one on the road, then YOU are the problem. If you're the slowest one in your lane, then YOU are the problem.

I wouldn't accept that as a blanket statement. I've been on roads where I was the slowest person (or at least one of a minority of slower drivers) and the people speeding were putting others in danger (think of the first snow of the year: no one remembers how difficult it is). There are times when the speeders are actually a bunch of teens who are in a duel, and they're the ones who are the problem, not the regular drivers.

Yes, there are times when the slower driver is the problem. I once led a whole line of cars, at least twenty, past a driver going well under the limit. But I can't accept the statement that the slower driver is always the problem. Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

And sometimes the slower driver is driving slowly for a particular reason; he knows the road, and knows there's a bad corner (or a cop) up ahead.

At times when I feel it necessary to drive slow (such as having double vision one night due to a migraine) I stay to the right and try to keep out of everyone else's way; I regard that as road courtesy.

Nancy
getting older, too. No longer have the fast reflexes I used to have.

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Author: FiddleDeeDee Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41788 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/30/2013 6:44 PM
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And you aren't reading what I'm writing either and it sounds like you have made assumptions about where and how I'm driving.

Andrea

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Author: BigKahoona Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41789 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/30/2013 8:23 PM
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And you aren't reading what I'm writing either

And yet you keep writing, hoping for responses you effectively concede you aren't reading.

Nice.

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Author: legalwordwarrior Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41790 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 4/30/2013 10:38 PM
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So, I should speed?

Andrea, I have to agree with discurro. You don't have to speed, but please, please, stay as far to the right as you can. I can't tell you how many times I've been cruising along only to suddenly have to hit the brakes because there was not only slow traffic in the right lane, but also slow traffic in the left lane for no other reason than the person in the left lane had set themselves up as the citizen patrol for speeding. Another tip is please don't ride the center line on a two lane road. Around here we get people who will straddle the line in the areas where it's considered legal to pass and then move over to the right in areas with the double line. Very annoying and it incites people to whip around you in places where it might not be safe.

That being said, I watched a guy in a pickup a few days ago drive almost into the median trying to get around the person in the left hand lane on a 4 lane divided highway. He whipped over into the right lane, then whipped back into the left, only to realize that his exit had already come up (the distance between exits is short at 75mph), so he then cut across both lanes in order to make his exit.

He was dealing with some serious road rage by that point and we were all just glad to see him exit.

LWW

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Author: bighairymike Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41791 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 5/1/2013 12:42 AM
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He was dealing with some serious road rage by that point and we were all just glad to see him exit.

LWW


--------------

I was busy texting and didn't notice his erratic driving...

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Author: legalwordwarrior Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41792 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 5/1/2013 8:08 AM
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I was busy texting and didn't notice his erratic driving...

Mike! When did you move here? Did you happen to get the license plate of the girl applying her mascara?

LWW

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Author: FiddleDeeDee Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41793 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 5/1/2013 10:40 AM
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Andrea, I have to agree with discurro. You don't have to speed, but please, please, stay as far to the right as you can. I can't tell you how many times I've been cruising along only to suddenly have to hit the brakes because there was not only slow traffic in the right lane, but also slow traffic in the left lane for no other reason than the person in the left lane had set themselves up as the citizen patrol for speeding. Another tip is please don't ride the center line on a two lane road. Around here we get people who will straddle the line in the areas where it's considered legal to pass and then move over to the right in areas with the double line. Very annoying and it incites people to whip around you in places where it might not be safe.

Well, maybe I should explain where I live, which no one has asked about.

The part of Massachusetts I live in has very narrow, tree lined roads in a highly populated area. They wind around sharp corners. In many cases there is no shoulder. Some of the bushes and mail boxes are right on the street, inches from the asphalt. The cars coming in the opposite direction don't always stay on their side of the line and so when I come around a hidden corner, I have to watch for the car or gravel truck coming toward me. This being spring, I have had to dodge dead animals -- 3 have been sitting there for the past week.

Oh yes, and the potholes... that's a whole paragraph in itself.

My commute to work is 10 minutes. In that time, I will pass at least one police car. My office at the college is very close to the campus police. And to add to the mix, the town I work in has a police academy, where fresh, just-out-of-the-package police officers patrol with a very watchful eye. I see at least 3 cars pulled over every week (college students & tourists--beware!)

If someone happens to be driving behind me and notice I'm driving slower than they are, MOST of the time, they slow down and keep a couple of car lengths' distance. Once in a while, there is someone who rides my bumper. It does not happen very often; when it does, I notice it.

What you all seem to be talking about is highway driving, or driving in towns that actually have 2 lanes going in one direction, shoulders, turn lanes, etc. What an embarrasment of riches you have!

I know how to drive on a highway. I grew up in Texas and had great driving instruction. I can drive comfortably and expertly up to 85 miles per hour ("not that I ever have, officer"). I merge beautifully on and off the ramps. I drive the same speed as the surrounding cars, and get to the right when it is safe to do so if there is a faster car behind me; in short, I try to be a very courteous driver.


At all times.


Andrea

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Author: legalwordwarrior Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41794 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 5/1/2013 12:50 PM
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Okay, gotcha. Winding roads and watchful police. I can see where you're coming from.

LWW

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Author: sofaking6 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41795 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 5/1/2013 1:42 PM
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Okay, gotcha. Winding roads and watchful police. I can see where you're coming from.

LWW
6

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41796 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 5/1/2013 3:03 PM
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Bottom line, the differential in speed between vehicles is more of a safety issue than the absolute speed most of the time.

Absolutely true. My old driver's ed instructor (centuries ago) once told us "I don't care what the speed limit says...if you're doing 35 when everyone else is doing 60 you're a hazard; if you're doing 60 while everyone else is doing 35 you're a hazard".

As for "right-most" lane, that is an unwritten rule. It exists primarily, I believe, because passing on the right is illegal. So if you are going at such a speed that people are going to be passing you then you need to give them room on the left. But, from a legal standpoint, there is no "fast lane". (Got that one from a cop many years ago.)

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Author: BigKahoona Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41797 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 5/1/2013 3:17 PM
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As for "right-most" lane, that is an unwritten rule.

It's unwritten international law.

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41798 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 5/1/2013 3:22 PM
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It's unwritten international law.

I wonder how that would work in England as the "right" lane is also the inside lane (closest to the center stripe).

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Author: Windowseat Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41799 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 5/1/2013 3:28 PM
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As for "right-most" lane, that is an unwritten rule.

Around here we have signs saying "Slow Traffic Keep Right" so I'm not sure that it's unwritten. In fact, I think I remember someone telling me that she was pulled over for not driving fast enough in the passing lane. So it's possible that in some states it's a written law.

Nancy

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41800 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 5/1/2013 3:31 PM
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Some roads do have posted minimum speeds. I don't see it often, but I do see it.

(And the cop that told me about "no fast lane" was over 20 years ago...I suppose that could have changed since then.)

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Author: benjd25 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41801 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 5/1/2013 4:00 PM
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When a large majority of people agree that a certain range of speeds is safe, and you feel that a much slower speed is safe, it not only interrupts the flow of traffic (every single time someone has to slow down and then move over to get around you) but it draws all of the other drivers' attention to you and off of the road in front of them, because they correctly identify you as the biggest and most immediate risk to them. Like if you're in a raft on a river, and there's a big rock in the middle. That's what you're going to look at.

Those people who agree that a certain range of speeds is safe, with those speeds being a narrow range mostly above the speed limit, are behaving negligent with their responsibilities as drivers. Automobiles are not the only roadway users. You have bicyclists, pedestrians, slow-moving motorized vehicles, etc., that you should also be expecting to find on the road. On many roads, such road users can not safely approach the speed limit. When those road users are operating safely and legally on the roadway they will almost always be the slowest vehicle in their lane. They are not the problem. People driving too fast for conditions are the problem. If encountering slow moving traffic causes a driver to drive unsafely, they were driving too fast to begin with.

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Author: benjd25 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41802 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 5/1/2013 4:11 PM
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Absolutely true. My old driver's ed instructor (centuries ago) once told us "I don't care what the speed limit says...if you're doing 35 when everyone else is doing 60 you're a hazard; if you're doing 60 while everyone else is doing 35 you're a hazard".


Then there should be no roads with speed limits that high that don't also have minimum speed limits. Roads are not for the exlusive use of cars, and plenty of non-automotive traffic cannot achieve those speeds. All road users (and especially licensed drivers) are required to use due care to not be a hazard to other road users (especially more vulnerable ones.)


As for "right-most" lane, that is an unwritten rule.

It varies from state to state. Most states have some variety of a keep right law.

In Arizona, you are incorrect - it is a written rule.

http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/28/00721....
28-721 4.B. On all roadways, a person driving a vehicle proceeding at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall drive the vehicle in the right-hand lane then available for traffic or as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway, except when overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction or when preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.

But, from a legal standpoint, there is no "fast lane". (Got that one from a cop many years ago.)

Cops are an awful source to quote for traffic laws. They don't know them, in many cases.

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Author: benjd25 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41803 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 5/1/2013 4:34 PM
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Continuing with the Arizona example:

http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/28/00815....
28-815 A. A person riding a bicycle on a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall ride as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway, except under any of the following situations:

...

4. If the lane in which the person is operating the bicycle is too narrow for a bicycle and a vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane.


Most lanes in my state (NY) are far too narrow for a bicycle and a motor vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane. I picked a city and a road at random in Arizona and found the same thing. A person riding a bicycle in accordance with the law should be expected to be found riding pretty much near the middle of the right hand lane. They will probably be the slowest operator in that lane. And drivers should expect to encounter it and be driving such that they can safely slow down and wait until it is safe to pass.

The location I picked at random in Arizona:
http://tinyurl.com/cayd8zy

(With the roadside parking, a cyclist would definitely have to be in the middle of the right lane to be safe. Riding to the right hand side of the right lane would put them in the area where an opening door would knock them down and out further into the road.)

In my area, a road like the following is more common:

http://tinyurl.com/c33d3n6

The road has a 40 mph speed limit. And a narrow shoulder. The shoulder is far too narrow to safely travel on - as indicated by the yellow sign with the bicycle symbol that reads 'SHARED ROADWAY.' (The roadway doesn't include the shoulder.) If you are driving too fast to safely encounter a 10 or 15 mph roadway user in the middle of your lane, you are driving too fast for conditions.

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Author: PSUEngineer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41804 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 5/1/2013 4:51 PM
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It exists primarily, I believe, because passing on the right is illegal.

It's not illegal in every state.

PSU

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Author: PSUEngineer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41805 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 5/1/2013 4:54 PM
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It's unwritten international law.

I miss Jackie.

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Author: ishtarastarte Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41806 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 5/1/2013 5:16 PM
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Well, when I got pulled over in WA circa 1995, the cop told me "left lanes are passing lanes only"

Ishtar

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Author: ishtarastarte Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41807 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 5/1/2013 5:17 PM
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Has anyone heard from JCoC in awhile?

Wonder what he's up to?

Ishtar

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Author: legalwordwarrior Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41808 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 5/1/2013 5:24 PM
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Wonder what he's up to?

Still trying to explain his way out of an arrest for having weapons in a park?

LWW

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Author: bighairymike Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41809 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 5/1/2013 6:34 PM
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Wonder what he's up to?

Still trying to explain his way out of an arrest for having weapons in a park?

LWW


-----------------

I always liked reading Jackies posts. His self inflicted problems and machinations to escape the consequences were fun to read about in a bizarre sort of way.

With the way TMF truncated his handle to JackieChanofChic, for the longest time I thought he was a snappy dresser or involved in the fashion industry somehow. I finally read a post where he mentioned where he lived and only then did I realize my error.

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Author: InconclusiveFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41810 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 5/1/2013 7:29 PM
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"so he then cut across both lanes in order to make his exit."

he deserves a ticket for unsafe driving.

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Author: InconclusiveFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41811 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 5/1/2013 7:41 PM
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"When those road users are operating safely and legally on the roadway they will almost always be the slowest vehicle in their lane. They are not the problem. People driving too fast for conditions are the problem."

Yup.

On our military post, the provost marshal loves to give out tickets for even fractional mph above the speed limit; complaining to the Federal magistrate never works. Stringent enforcement is just a fact of life.

Just this morning on post, I was on a 30 mph speed limit road where speed traps are set up several times a week. I was travelling exactly 30 mph with several impatient drivers following closely behind me. Imagine their surprise when we came around the bend and saw the speed trap car in all it's glory. They all immediately slowed down, and I saved at least some of them a $70 ticket. In fact, I'm surprised the guy behind me didn't get a ticket for tailgating.

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Author: qazulight Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41812 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 5/1/2013 9:22 PM
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As for "right-most" lane, that is an unwritten rule<I/>

Where I drive I am often the only person on the road. I always stay right because te guys in the left lane can have a speed differential of 150 mph. That's too quick for my reflexes.

Also on route 166 out of Fort Davis, we stopped in the road got out took pictures. Listens for road noise, no cars came by in ten minutes or more.

So....as I was both the slowest and fastest on the road, how fast should I drive?

Cheers
Qazulight


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Author: legalwordwarrior Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41814 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 5/1/2013 10:16 PM
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I always liked reading Jackies posts. His self inflicted problems and machinations to escape the consequences were fun to read about in a bizarre sort of way.

I remember seeing a blog of his once a few years ago. He doesn't even show up in a search anymore. Kinda sad really.

LWW

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Author: legalwordwarrior Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41815 of 44677
Subject: Re: An Open Letter Date: 5/1/2013 10:18 PM
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he deserves a ticket for unsafe driving.

What he deserves and what he gets most likely won't even be in the same ballpark. Unfortunately, no handy officers around for that one.

LWW

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