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Author: k1ngmOb Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 39754  
Subject: ANGRY European League Players Date: 10/30/2004 5:13 PM
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A question I posed in this post...

http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=21512777

...is now coming out in the open, as former NHLer and current Euopean league player Corey Hirsch blasts against the recent influx of locked out NHL players playing in the various European leagues.

http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=103166

I think some of these players should have a talk with my pregnant wife and my kids that moved their lives to Europe, only to watch me sit in the stands game after game because I have been bumped by an NHL player... They are scabs over here.

Harsh words. But I'm really not surprised. Another black eye against the NHLPA.

Keith...
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Author: dcardno Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 8068 of 39754
Subject: Re: ANGRY European League Players Date: 10/30/2004 5:21 PM
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"Another black eye against the NHLPA."

Oh, c'mon, Keith. Hirsch "took a job away" from some Swedish or Czech goaltender, and someday his job will be taken away by another Canadian, Russian, or Slovak goalie. When did professional athletes arrange for job security, rather than competing on the basis of talent and effort?

Dean

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Author: coyote97 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 8069 of 39754
Subject: Re: ANGRY European League Players Date: 10/30/2004 5:49 PM
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I think some of these players should have a talk with my pregnant wife and my kids that moved their lives to Europe, only to watch me sit in the stands game after game because I have been bumped by an NHL player... They are scabs over here.

The real scabs are the European team owners. They should have told the NHL players to stick it in their posterior orifices. It is despicable, these over paid babies with a comfortable living sitting in savings, going over there and displacing blue collar players while they are haggling over millions. It is pathetic that the owners over there allowed them to do it taking them in to be left high and dry again when the NHL dispute gets settled someday. I am seriously considering having a strike of my own when this all gets settled someday. The fans should let the lowlifes come back to empty stands and no TV ratings for a season or two after this gets settled. We seem to be at a great place to adjust some perspectives if we could get a high profile sports media outlet to carry the torch in organizing fans to send our own message.

We could send ripples felt in every major sports league.....if fans sent the right message. My suggested motto for the effort:

Love for the game does not dictate kissing your butts.

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Author: k1ngmOb Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 8070 of 39754
Subject: Re: ANGRY European League Players Date: 10/30/2004 6:15 PM
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When did professional athletes arrange for job security, rather than competing on the basis of talent and effort?

Is that really the point here? I thought there was a lockout going on.

I don't know about you, Dean, but every employer lockout I've been a part of usually involved me having to stand out in the cold and rain holding a picket sign of some sort representing a show of unity within the locked out union members. People from other unions would occasionally drive by and honk their horns in support while others would yell out "Get back to work" mistaking us for Strikers.

Has anyone seen a single hockey player picketing in front of their local arena? I guess you can't when nearly 40% of their members aren't even on the Continent. You listen to some of these locked out players on the radio doing interviews and you'd think they were on some kind of extended vacation.

If these players were all on the same page, they would all be unified and fighting together for a common goal (kind of like a Union or something, Bobby). Instead we have union player members in all corners of the world doing "their own thing" (Some playing hockey and some getting on the radio speaking against the very union that they should be supporting) while Bob and Gary just stare at each other seeing which one will blink first, as worldwide hockey begins to crumble.

It also looks like the ultimate contradiction as these "scabs" are more than willing to sign a contract for $80,000 to play in Europe, but not for $1,800,000 to play in YOUR city. I still can't figure that one out. If the NHLPA members were really serious about their stance, they shouldn't be playing ANYWHERE. At least for salary, as I really can't complain about Brad May's charity game that's taking place soon here in Vancouver for Canuck Place.

Maybe it's time for me to make my stance and cancel my Centre Ice plan.

Keith...

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Author: Fuskie Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Ticker Guide SC1 Red Winner of the 2010 Rule Breakers Challenge Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 8071 of 39754
Subject: Re: ANGRY European League Players Date: 10/30/2004 7:29 PM
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The European players weren't complaining so loud when they were dumping their regional teams for a chance to make it big in the NHL.

Fuskie
Who spent 10 1/2 months out of work and would not wish it on anyone but has little sympathy for European players who complain now but will willingly be standing at the trough once NHL hockey starts up again...

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Author: TMFAdmiral Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 8072 of 39754
Subject: Re: ANGRY European League Players Date: 10/30/2004 8:10 PM
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Hi Fuskie,

You'd be surprised just how many Canadian boys are regulars in the UK & other Euro leagues - these are the ones being displaced as most teams just have a few slots for non-nationals

Regards
Philip

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Author: Fuskie Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Ticker Guide SC1 Red Winner of the 2010 Rule Breakers Challenge Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 8073 of 39754
Subject: Re: ANGRY European League Players Date: 10/30/2004 8:27 PM
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You'd be surprised just how many Canadian boys are regulars in the UK & other Euro leagues - these are the ones being displaced as most teams just have a few slots for non-nationals

Does not matter. They would still be there slupin' at the trough if the opportunity arrived...

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Author: k1ngmOb Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 8074 of 39754
Subject: Re: ANGRY European League Players Date: 10/30/2004 8:52 PM
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You'd be surprised just how many Canadian boys are regulars in the UK & other Euro leagues - these are the ones being displaced as most teams just have a few slots for non-nationals

And the irony of it all is that a lot of these Canadian (and American) players are playing in Europe because of all the European players who came to play in the NHL and took away their opportunity at an NHL job. And now they have to worry about NHL'ers taking away their European jobs.

If it comes to these players having to take a contract as an NHL scab player, it'll only be because they were forced to. Where else do they have to go at this point?

Keith...

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Author: canamrugby Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 8075 of 39754
Subject: Re: ANGRY European League Players Date: 10/31/2004 12:27 PM
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The bottom line here for me is whether they like it or not the NHL players are SUPPOSED to be part of a union here in North America called the NHLPA. By accepting involvement in this said union they should be giving up their eligibility to play elsewhere should their damn UNION decide to play hardball with the NHL.

In my mind the only players that have the right to go to Europe are those that are free-agents (restricted or otherwise). If you have a valid NHL contract, then get your pathetic butt to NY or Toronto and picket the NHL like union members are expected to. It isn't as though they can't afford the hotel rooms...

-canam
In most cases not a union supporter anyways.

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Author: dcardno Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 8076 of 39754
Subject: Re: ANGRY European League Players Date: 10/31/2004 1:38 PM
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"By accepting involvement in this said union they should be giving up their eligibility to play elsewhere should their damn UNION decide to play hardball with the NHL."

Well, I guess that's really between the players and their damn UNION, isn't it? The owners certainly aren't giving up much, since for most of them the NHL team is just part of their business activities, and normally not a central part. Most unions I have been aware of do not demand that members walk a picket line when on strike or locked out - if a member of -say- the IWA needs to get a job at Walmart to make his mortgage payments during a dispute he does so, and the only cost with respect to the IWA is loss of strike pay.

Picket lines are intended to put pressure on an employer by preventing him from operating in spite of his reduced staffing levels - hiring replacements for the particular union members affected while members of other unions continue to work. That is not the case here, and no doubt to the extent the lockout is economically affecting the owners the simple fact that the teams aren't playing is the aspect doing the damage. A union picket line won't change that one iota. Seeing players walking the line may make you feel better, since it then seems that they are equally as unhappy as you are (misery loving company, and all), but it brings no benefit to the players or the NHLPA, and visits no further hardship on the owners, so there is just no reason to expect it.

The owners are trying to exert pressure in two ways - the first is the obvious lack of player income during the lockout, while the second is the possibility of loss of conditioning, deterioration of skills, and so on. They are hoping that at least some of the players will be desperate to play before their ability to compete at the NHL level disappears; the owners believe that time is on their side. Playing in Europe obviously affords some income - not as much as playing in the NHL, but more than I earn - so it reduces the economic pressure on the players. At the same time, it allows them to maintain their fitness and skills - for some of them, it may even force an improvemnt in their skills, or at least make them more adaptable and better-rounded players when they return. More importantly, it signals to the owners that they players are not absolutely beholden to them, and that time may not be on the owners side to the extent they assume.

As always, I find the NHL management to be laughably incompetent - they still seem to believe that they own and control the game, and that players should simply doo as they are told. In truth, while there may be economic value in the league, the owners can only realize that value by reaching some sort of agreement with the players - a long lockout will diminish the fan base and hurt both sides. By investigating other venues and other playing arrangements, the players are attempting to demonstrate that the damage will be at least as severe on the owners side as it is on the players. When I look at the owners, I am confident that there is no group I would more like to see suffer economically.

Cheers,

Dean


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Author: TDIer Two stars, 250 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 8180 of 39754
Subject: Re: ANGRY European League Players Date: 12/7/2004 6:26 PM
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I logged on to TSN.ca and looked at the list of players who are in Europe. You'll never guess which group of players make up the majority who left North America to go play overseas....

The Europeans!! I would say well over 60% of the names are European - maybe more - I may go count them and get an accurate %.

Paul

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Author: TMFAdmiral Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 8181 of 39754
Subject: Re: ANGRY European League Players Date: 12/7/2004 7:41 PM
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Hey Paul what a novel idea - European leagues wanting European players back now that there is no NHL to entice them over this side of the pond :-)

Plus an opportunity for the Euros to play closer to home

BestRegards
Philip

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