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Author: TheCrusader Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 203693  
Subject: Apple to Dominate Payments Date: 4/15/2010 9:16 PM
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Hi all

I have scanned the board briefly but have not found reference to these recent Apple patents.

Please consider the following link

http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2010/04/apple-ge...

Apple introduces us to an NFC-iPhone that will include a built-in scanner, biometric sensor, added camera functionality and a secondary fingerprint scanner for verifying a user's identity to retailers

There is a lot in this patent and it can also be read in conjunction with this one.

http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2010/04/apple-in...

There is also another patent that uses the same NFC technology to enable person to person transfers of funds but I cannot find the link

Mobile purchases, p2p payments using phones is a utopia that many telcos, banks, and scheme operatiors have been looking at for years. There have been numerous NFC pilots around the world and there are some isloated examples of it being used especially for transport ticketing.

Nevertheless full commercial scale rollout has not really happened for a large number of reasons, but what it really gets down to is that every stakeholder wants a piece of the action and wishes to have as much control as possible.

In order for NFC to work it is neccessasry that there are both NFC transmitters and NFC readers. There are not many NFC capable handsets in the market and the ones that are, are well phones that no one would really want to use like cheap chinese models. There is not that I am aware of NFC capability on the roadmaps of Nokia, Samsung etc. Anyway I would discount those manufacturers. In my mind the only ones that count are Apple, Andriod and the new Windows 7 Phone.

Apple is in a position of strength because they manufacturer the hardware and are in a position to control the eco system

As for NFC readers at the POS, it depends on what market you are talking about but there is already widespread deployment, and it is definetly on the roadmaps of major financial transaction acquirers. This is being driven by a number of factors including EMV standards, and Visa/Mastercard pay wave initiatives.

As for the mobile network operatiors they are pushing a standard known as Single Wire Protocal (SWP) to faciliate NFC and payment transactions in general on handsets. Again this is a complex area but what is important to know is that telcos want the crucial credit card infomation and applications to be kept on the SIM card (even this presents problems as std issue SIM cards do not have the capacity) Telcos rationale for this is security but the real driver is control.

Apple patents are not relying on SWP, looks like they will be storing this data in the phone which is want all the other players want except for the telcos.

It is apparent to me by looking at these patents that Apple are across all the issues and the strategic landscape in general. These patents are putting together the techonlogy to address all the uses in NFC Mobile transactions that have been espoused by everyone for years.

It is likely that they will be looking at a variety of commercial models including a "clip of the ticket". Needless to say that the revenue that can be earned here is more than material

The thing is that in my view Apple is in a position to implement this for the prime reason that they will control much of the eco-system whereas other players only control part of it and they will have no diffculty getting enough of the other stakeholders on board (banks) to make this work.

Anyway these are only patents and if any fool does there own research they will see how complex this area is. This could make serious money for Apple and any prudent investor should keep there eye on this. Dont get caught up in the technology, NFC works, it's the implementation and the commerical model that is important.
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Author: KodiakBear Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 164376 of 203693
Subject: Re: Apple to Dominate Payments Date: 4/15/2010 9:23 PM
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What's this? Microsoft fanboy, TheCrusader, turns Apple fanboy?

KB

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Author: Philipo Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 164381 of 203693
Subject: Re: Apple to Dominate Payments Date: 4/15/2010 10:50 PM
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KB why try to stir the pot when all he was doing was making an inquiry/showing interest in the topic he raised? He was hardly turning into an Apple "fanboy" with recognizing it. How about not trolling for a fight/negative attention for a change.

Rec to Crusader - yes, it IS interesting...but a bit different from Apple's recent direction that has been a bit more mainstream/consumerish than POS terminals would be (even if a natural extension of their handheld platforms). But perhaps they will pursue this - or perhaps the patents are cheap insurance or a placeholder for options that they may not chase anytime soon. Hard to know.
Cheers,
B

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Author: riwaterman One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 164382 of 203693
Subject: Re: Apple to Dominate Payments Date: 4/15/2010 10:57 PM
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Whoa Apple is going to take over the world.

Are there any patents relating to the creation of Skynet?

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Author: Philipo Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 164383 of 203693
Subject: Re: Apple to Dominate Payments Date: 4/15/2010 11:11 PM
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And patents on phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range
no...(just what you see pal)
;-)
B

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Author: KodiakBear Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 164384 of 203693
Subject: Re: Apple to Dominate Payments Date: 4/15/2010 11:18 PM
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>> KB why try to stir the pot when all he was doing was making an inquiry/showing interest in the topic he raised? <<

Fine, let's discuss the topic.
If memory serves me, they said pretty much the same thing about Microsoft in 1998.
Everything from data centers to smart phones would run a Microsoft OS.
And Microsoft would make a killing on electronic financial transaction fees.

KB

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Author: ChicagoBob Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 164385 of 203693
Subject: Re: Apple to Dominate Payments Date: 4/15/2010 11:25 PM
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while I have no doubt that Apple could integrate any solution it wanted and might have more applications than just POS, there are several popular POS solutions right now that take advantage of iPhone / iPod Touches.

For example: http://www.ipclineapro.com/

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Author: Philipo Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 164387 of 203693
Subject: Re: Apple to Dominate Payments Date: 4/16/2010 8:22 AM
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"Fine, let's discuss the topic."

Beats just being a *****.

"If memory serves me, they said pretty much the same thing about Microsoft in 1998."

Who's "they"?
What's that got to do with these specific patents and the tie in with Apple's specific platform to deliver it should they try to?
It's not exactly over reaching or playing fan boy to ask about it or Apple interest in pursuing such things.
B

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Author: maracle Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 164409 of 203693
Subject: Re: Apple to Dominate Payments Date: 4/17/2010 6:32 PM
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Apple patents are not relying on SWP, looks like they will be storing this data in the phone which is want all the other players want except for the telcos.

Hmm, I really doubt this. Using a smart card for secure transactions is already a standard practice in many parts of the world (certainly most of Europe and Asia), both as a fraud prevention mechanism by banks and due to regulatory requirements. I don't think this is an area Apple really has any say in...if the banks, governments, and VISA/Mastercard/AmEx say use a chip, then a chip needs to be used.

Also, having some experience in the smart card industry I can say a few other things. First, NFC is still going to be slow to come due to standards body development and adoption. There are a lot of players involved and unfortunately it makes this kind of thing go slow as molasses. Second, SIM cards only are limited on data storage because telcos buy the cheapest possible card. If they're willing to pay more they can have plenty of space for loading the SIM with credit card and transit card info. Right now, however, SIM cards are bought as a spot market product -- as a commodity with whoever has today's lowest price getting the order. So telcos are used to paying a very low price for their cards.

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Author: TheCrusader Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 169114 of 203693
Subject: Re: Apple to Dominate Payments Date: 11/1/2010 7:44 PM
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Hi guys

The card is believed to be manufactured by Gemalto, with a European launch being initially touted (a US launch is less likely given the presence of numerous CDMA operators in the country, a technology that does not support SIM cards). The move could allow users to more easily switch and roam between operators.

Any of you guys heard of this. Gemalto is big in the NFC space.

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