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Author: clearbranch Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 9947  
Subject: Arming the teachers? Date: 12/19/2012 10:33 AM
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Is it finally time for teachers to take up firearms training in addition to all of our other duties?

I am "highly qualified" to carry a firearm in that environment and would welcome the opportunity to be able to actually protect my students from a threat such as Connecticut just experienced.

I really think that if teachers are allowed to do this they should be trained by the same people that train their police officers with an emphasis on marksmanship, safety, and legal repercussions/issues.

If properly done, with the use of frangible ammunition and extensive training, this could put an end to the senseless slaughter of our children.

The day is long over for our malls, schools and public spaces to be unprotected. We will continue to pay the price if we don't step up and take this responsibility seriously.

CB
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Author: PuddinHead42 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9817 of 9947
Subject: Re: Arming the teachers? Date: 12/19/2012 11:01 PM
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Tough call, the world is getting ugly.

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Author: rbednarski Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9818 of 9947
Subject: Re: Arming the teachers? Date: 12/20/2012 12:01 PM
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Actually not. Mass shooting are down since the 90s. Media saturation is up.

That said, there are a lot of solutions being proposed and the test to apply is would they have prevented this or similar incidents. with 280 million guns out there more gun control sure won't. Prevention through better mental health care won't, because there are thousands of people with similar profiles to the shooter who don't shoot people. In fact there is no way to keep these kinds of incidents from happening. Clearbranch's idea, however, while not preventing incidents, has the benefit of potentially limiting the damage.

The unnoticed story this week is about the guy at a showing of the Hobbit who pulled out a gun and before he could kill people was drilled by a an off-duty sheriff's deputy who was there. And you can hardly find a mention of it in the mass media.

Obama fulminates against gus yet under his administration federal gun prosecutions are down 40% from the Bush Administration.

We are being played, folks.

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Author: PuddinHead42 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9819 of 9947
Subject: Re: Arming the teachers? Date: 12/25/2012 12:49 PM
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I think this should be a local decision, not a federal one. If a local school system wants to hire a guard or train a principal they are already paying for, then let them. The Federal government should not redirect tax dollars to local schools for this purpose.

So, by some estimates I have heard, it would cost about $80k in salary and benefits for a single armed guard. Another (or same) estimate said 1 guard per school would cost about $4 billion a year.

Ok, so assuming money does not grow on debt trees, we have to decide where to best spend our money. In this trade off, let's only consider money to save lives, specifically American lives. (We'll leave the truly vulnerable of the world on their own for this discussion). It is hard to find stats, but even considering the 27 killed recently and the 32 killed in VT in 2007, there are not really many people killed by guns in schools. Let's say 10 per year on average (which is probably high). That is not many lives that need saving. Sure, it is super tragic and we see it all at once on tv, but I bet you $100 far more kids are killed on inner city streets each year, probably more just on the way to or from school. So it would be immoral to spend $4 billion to save 10 lives, when you could spend $4b to save many more in urban areas, or provide $4b of pre-natal care and vaccines that is proven to save many more lives. So which life is worth more, 1 cute white kid in a nice school, or 10 poor black, white and hispanic children living in poverty and high crime zones.

You decide.

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Author: rbednarski Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9820 of 9947
Subject: Re: Arming the teachers? Date: 12/25/2012 2:04 PM
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"I think this should be a local decision, not a federal one. If a local school system wants to hire a guard or train a principal they are already paying for, then let them. The Federal government should not redirect tax dollars to local schools for this purpose. "

I agree. I just want the Feds to not put barriers in place that make it harder or impossible for states, districts, and schools that want to implement a variety of potential amelioratives. I use that word advisedly because I believe there is no "solution". Evil will always exist and cannot be prevented, only limited in its ability to harm us.

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Author: clearbranch Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9821 of 9947
Subject: Re: Arming the teachers? Date: 12/30/2012 6:47 PM
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When I was in law enforcement (8years) I used to work off duty at the local school basketball games. I remember how unnerving it was for me to look up into a crowd of hundreds of students/parents in the stands and wonder what I would do if someone stood up and started shooting from the stands. I'm glad I never had to make that choice.

In a school campus setting, I would prefer a shotgun with slugs only. It was always my go to weapon of choice when I had a few seconds to grab it first.

It is far more accurate (100 yards plus) and deadly than the Glock 10mm pistol I carried. I would trust it to pick someone out of a crowd if no one was behind the person targeted.

A shotgun would be safer in a classroom setting also. It could be locked in a rack on the wall that only I could access by combination (like the rack in my patrol car) A lot safer than a pistol that could be taken away or dropped in class.

I don't know law enforcement officers than have been at it awhile that haven't left their gun belt in a bathroom stall, at home, at the station or other embarrassing place. This would not be too amusing if it happened at school where a child could find it.

In the USMC I was at a Marine Barracks duty station where guns were with us always. There were numerous accidents... holes blown in guard shack roofs, a .45 slug landing in the center of the commanding officer's desk, guards accidentally shooting people when challenging visitors..... it happens.

Anyway, there are a lot of factors that should be thought out before guns are allowed in schools. I don't the it lightly but would welcome the responsibility and opportunity to take better care of my students if need be. That is not to say I haven't made other plans using more mundane resources/tools that could be deadly if needed. I would rather be trusted with a shotgun than a hammer or rock if the time ever comes to face the ever more likely possibility of an angry students or parent armed to the teeth entering my building. I would fight to the death either way for my students to have a chance at life.

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