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Author: DrBob2 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 59048  
Subject: Australian election Date: 9/7/2013 9:30 AM
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Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd concedes defeat in general election with British-born politician Tony Abbott set to become new leader
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2414825/British-born-politi...
Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd has conceded defeat in the general election with the British-born conservative politician Tony Abbott set to become the country's new leader. Mr Abbott's Liberal Party-led coalition has swept to power in a national election and ended six years of Labor Party rule....

A win for the coalition comes despite the relative unpopularity of party leader Tony Abbott. Abbott who promised to end a hated tax on carbon emissions, boost the nation's flagging economy and bring about political stability after years of Labor Party infighting.

The carbon tax has long been a thorn in the side of the Labor Party. The previous prime minister, Julia Gillard, broke an election promise and agreed to impose the tax in a bid to form a coalition Labor needed to stay in power.

DB2
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Author: AjaxofTelamon Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 44852 of 59048
Subject: Re: Australian election Date: 9/7/2013 12:41 PM
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Abbott who promised to end a hated tax on carbon emissions, boost the nation's flagging economy and bring about political stability after years of Labor Party infighting.

It looks like the Carbon Tax was the number one issue:

In a statement before the election, ...Tony Abbott renewed his pledge that this election is about “the carbon tax”. If he wins, and the Senate won’t pass his climate change legislation, he says he’s determined to pull the ultimate political trigger and call a double dissolution election.

http://joannenova.com.au/2013/09/climate-change-is-still-tea...

And today according to JoNova,

UPDATE: 10:20 Abbotts Win...

Australian Election Today (Finally!) Rudd-Gillard government to go...


http://joannenova.com.au/2013/09/australian-election-today/

The crackpots are out - this is a major alarmist defeat.


-=Ajax=-

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 44853 of 59048
Subject: Re: Australian election Date: 9/7/2013 2:13 PM
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politicians should take heed.

Vote for 'carbon taxes' and you'll be voted out of office and power.

It won't be long before Germans start to revolt over their 'energy poverty'.....



t.

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Author: AjaxofTelamon Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 44854 of 59048
Subject: Re: Australian election Date: 9/7/2013 2:21 PM
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It looks like the Carbon Tax was the number one issue

Indeed - This, from Anthony Watts in Watts Up With That:

Tony Abbot has won the Australian election in a landslide, and vows to abolish the carbon tax as a first order of business. Abbott has declared Australia is “once more open for business” in claiming victory in Saturday’s election....

Abbot says he will abolish the carbon tax. In an August 5th Herald Sun article: " If elected, the coalition on day one would suspend the CEFC (Clean Energy Finance Corporation) and prepare legislation to shut it down permanently...."


And in an update note from Australia: Tony Abbott, the man who once described climate change as crap http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Abbott#Climate_change , has won a landslide victory in the Australian election, an election which has seen substantial swings against Labor and the Greens.

More from: http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/09/07/australia-liberated-fr...


-=Ajax=-

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Author: bjchip Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 44855 of 59048
Subject: Re: Australian election Date: 9/7/2013 2:25 PM
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This has been expected ever since she broke that promise.

Queensland was the precursor. There was never any doubt, and Australians are in for a rough ride because much of their economy is dependent on the export of raw materials to China, and China may not need so much.

Australia is the second home of climate denial too, with incompetents like Plimer and Joanne Nova braying their brains out. Its economic incentives are to dig it up and burn it down and while it has protected some of its manufacturing its principle exports are commodities, not much different from here.

So with Abbott going in, the likely result will be less protection and a deterioration of their actual position with an increasing GINI and more money for the wealthy... and no Carbon tax or price of any sort for the next few years. He's going to hurt them a lot in the long term though I do not know what their Senate will look like yet and whether he'll be able to make things as bad as he'd like to.

The Carbon Tax was one of those places where the only real choice the PM really had was a credible threat of a fresh election. She'd have done better to risk it then rather than break a promise. She should never have rolled Kevin Rudd in the first place though. The Aussies don't take that sort of thing (the broken promise) well. Greens there overreached. I keep reminding my own party here that we are a political party NOT a "movement".

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Author: jck101 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 44857 of 59048
Subject: Re: Australian election Date: 9/7/2013 2:53 PM
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politicians should take heed.

Vote for 'carbon taxes' and you'll be voted out of office and power.


Yeah, if I was a politician with a green bent, I'd still stay away from it after Australia.

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Author: bjchip Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 44859 of 59048
Subject: Re: Australian election Date: 9/7/2013 3:28 PM
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I don't think it was the Tax itself Jack.

It was the broken promise after rolling Rudd in the first place.

For her to deal with the Greens her only valid choice was to agree to put it to a referendum and if the Greens didn't take that she'd have to have held a new election.

If the Greens agreed the referendum would have been decent but not perfect protection against the "broken promise" issue.

With a snap election she'd probably have been out then, likely as rolling Rudd was not a popular thing with the people of Australia, or the Greens would have lost a seat or two and she'd be in without them and the need to break the promise.

Basically the Labour party succumbed to the basic tendency on the part of the most political parties, to depose leaders like this

http://conservativehome.blogs.com/.a/6a00d83451b31c69e2017c3...

It will be in disarray until it isn't. Rudd may still be viable, but his party is disorganized.

Abbott will damage Australia until he is stopped.

The CO2 tax will be gone until it the public is educated by Nature or by actually learning to think.

The Green Party of Australia gets an opportunity to learn an important lesson about "the art of the possible".

Greens will lose what little influence they had, where if they had moderated their demands they might still be in government. Idealism vs pragmatism is a big issue for Greens.


...but this wasn't primarily about the CO2 tax. It was at least as much about it being done as a broken promise, as about the tax itself. The failure puts realistic action on CO2 by Australia further away because Australians will remember this and avoid it. Just like you want them to do.


I predicted this... I disliked the manner of it (the imposition of the tax through a broken promise) when it went in and expected it spelled the end for Labour. I knew for a certainty after the Queensland debacle.

I am surrounded by stupid.

http://www.spannerfilms.net/films/ageofstupid

..and this election doesn't make you or Ajax or JoNova right, just makes the result of YOUR decisions more likely than any of mine. Robbing all our children of their rights to a planet that is not altered beyond recognition and doing so mostly for the short term benefit of the wealthiest among us.

"We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children"

We're in default.

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Author: waterfell Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 44864 of 59048
Subject: Re: Australian election Date: 9/7/2013 5:15 PM
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BJ says:
Abbott will damage Australia until he is stopped.

From 2010:
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/archive/news/tony-abbott-advocat...

OPPOSITION Leader Tony Abbott says nuclear power is the "only realistic way" for Australia to cut its carbon emissions but he will not take the policy to the next election.

Speaking at the Menzies Research Centre in Canberra, the opposition leader said nuclear power was the only proven way of generating the base load power Australia needed without producing carbon pollution.

The opposition leader was responding to comments by former defence force chief Peter Cosgrove, who said nuclear power was the only practical alternative to carbon-based energy resources such as coal.

Mr Abbott said that if "the most urgent task confronting humanity is to reduce our carbon dioxide emissions" the "only realistic way to do that in ways which maintain living standards" was to move to nuclear energy.

---------------------------------------------------

Greens leader Milne opposes new nuclear power development, and wants to go 100% renewables.

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2...

Senator Milne was criticised during the Hangout for demanding Australia cut its greenhouse gas emissions to zero, yet ruling out nuclear power, one of the few credible methods of reaching this target.

"We don't need nuclear," Senator Milne said. "It's too slow, too expensive, too dangerous". "We can go to 100 per cent renewable … I am persuaded we can do this in Australia without nuclear".

----------------------------------------------------

The only possible way they could go 100% renewables is if the majority of the power is generated from hydroelectric dams. I don't think Australia has the water resources to enable such a endeavor. The Outback certainly has a lot of sun during the day, but there is that nagging problem of people wanting to use electricity at night. Despite many ideas and proposals, this problem has not been solved in any cost-effective manner.

- Pete

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Author: bjchip Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 44867 of 59048
Subject: Re: Australian election Date: 9/7/2013 6:45 PM
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IF Abbott plays the nuclear card that's fine with me and he can do something about Aussie CO2 emissions in the process, but I wasn't actually referring to climate change in that sentence. Abbott is AFAIK a born again free-market fundamentalist. Has no time for trade unions, no sense of the systemic failure of neo-liberalism and not a shred of understanding of how bad those things can ultimately make things.

OTOH, I have to believe that UNLIKE my own esteemed PM here, he is in fact in it for the good of Australia and is almost certainly more honest (admittedly a low bar). So it is unlikely that he'll actually go to the sort of extremes that John Key is pleased to entertain.

He has also expressed views that Ajax and Tele might understand, so if he does anything sensible it won't be because of CC. Still I'd actually welcome the notion of them going to nukes for their power as it is the only progress I'm likely to see from them for the next few years.

I don't think Australia has the water resources to enable such a endeavor. Dead right. The Sun there is something though. They'd have to do molten salt storage or something like. Flow batteries perhaps... and they'd have to work on the demand side. Even so, if they could knock down their coal use during the day they'd be doing quite a bit. Damned inefficient power cycles. Nice if we could start and stop a coal plant in less than half a day.

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Author: jaagu Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 44873 of 59048
Subject: Re: Australian election Date: 9/7/2013 8:28 PM
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The Outback certainly has a lot of sun during the day, but there is that nagging problem of people wanting to use electricity at night.

=====================

The night time consumption of electricity is about 50% of daily peak consumption. Energy storage systems are being developed to cover 8 - 12 hours of no sun, and they can use combined cycle gas turbines as a backup. But winds tend to blow strong at night which can supplement the loss of sun energy. Australia has some of the world’s best wind resources. These conditions are well known in all areas of Australia.

A typical electrical demand pattern is shown in following:

http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.cfm?id=12711

http://www.cleanenergycouncil.org.au/technologies/wind.html

jaagu

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Author: BenSolar Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 44877 of 59048
Subject: Re: Australian election Date: 9/8/2013 8:35 AM
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Australia may be ditching their carbon tax, but they are opening a carbon cap and trade system, and they are in discussions with California on cooperation and possible future linkage of their markets.

http://www.businessgreen.com/bg/news/2285943/california-and-...

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Author: TheCrusader Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 45048 of 59048
Subject: Re: Australian election Date: 9/13/2013 9:12 PM
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Hi all

Thought I might give our American friends some background on how many party leaders have impaled themselves on the sword of climate change and by the looks of it will continue to do so.

Firstly after Rudd won the 2007 election Brendan Nelson was the opposition leader, cant remember how long he lasted but one of the reasons he was deposed was that he did not have a climate change policy. 2007 was the height of this warming hysteria, and the media kept hounding him on it and his poll numbers were not looking good.

He was succeeded by Malcom Turnball who supported the governments Emission Trading Scheme Plan. Turnball was too left to lead the conservative party and he was challenged primarily due to his position on climate change. Tony Abbot succeeded him.

So far we have two leaders of the oppostion who lost the leadership due to their positions on climate change. One for not having a policy and one for having one....lol

Prime Minister Rudd after having stated on numerous occasions that "Climate Change was the Greatest Moral Challenge" adandoned the whole thing on the basis that it was too hard. From that moment on he never recovered in the opinion polls which led to a successful challenge and election win to Julia Gillard.

During the campaign Gillard said "There will be no carbon tax under a government I led". Sure enough a few weeks after the win, what do we get a labor/greens alliance and a carbon tax. From that moment on Gillard never recovered in the polls. Three years of dysfunctional government later Rudd takes over from Gillard. But make no mistake whilst the government was incompetent Gillard never recovered from the breach of trust of breaking the carbon tax promise.

So now we have two Prime Minsters deposed due to climate change positions, so thats four leaders.

Now here is where it gets interesting. At the election a week ago which Tony Abbot won with a No Carbon Tax policy, 6 centre right representatives got elected to the Senate on Green preferences, and at least 4 if not all of them agree that the carbon tax should go and climate change is crap. The Greens through their preferences have lost control of the Senate and given it to micro parties diametrically opposed to their views!!.... how funny is that......

Worse the labor party now in opposition is going to continue to support a carbon tax even after it is repealed. So they plan to take it to the next election. They feel that if they abandon this position they will lose votes to the greens and look unprincipled.

But the reality as I see it is as long as they labor party supports a carbon tax they will never win government and further they will lose their working class base to the liberals, and the radical left were voting greens anyway. In a word because of climate change they are stuffed.

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Author: bjchip Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 45049 of 59048
Subject: Re: Australian election Date: 9/14/2013 1:49 AM
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Yep, Aussies are digging their own graves now... they just LOOK like coal mines.

I don't think you're right though.

The sense that people SHOULD NOT BREAK PROMISES seems much more important in terms of what has happened there. YOUR vote may be based on some misperception of how the climate works and what the science is saying, but I lived in Oz for a few years and my bet is that the broken promises and leadership lunacy was WAY worse for Labour, than the tax or not tax issue around Carbon.

As for Abbot, he'll do a number on working class Aussies that'll fairly quickly make them forget all about how much they disliked Labour... but with Labour so disorganized, there won't be a lot of alternatives for them for a while

http://www.monbiot.com/2013/09/05/abbottalypse-now/

It isn't all about climate change and carbon taxes in Oz. Honesty in government is also necessary, and I don't think Labour provided any real assurance of that... and Abbot likely won't do much better.

BJ

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Author: AjaxofTelamon Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 45099 of 59048
Subject: Re: Australian election Date: 9/15/2013 5:04 PM
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Tony Abbot has won the Australian election in a landslide, and vows to abolish the carbon tax as a first order of business. Abbott has declared Australia is “once more open for business” in claiming victory in Saturday’s election....

It is not just Australia. Two years ago Susana Martinez was elected governor of New Mexico and ran on a similar platform:

Newly elected New Mexico Governor Susana Martinez is making good on pre-election promises to eliminate job-killing environmental regulations whose costs outweigh their benefits.

Martinez announced on January 5 that she will block carbon dioxide restrictions imposed by the state Environmental Improvement Board (EIB), is replacing all EIB members, and will keep New Mexico from joining a regional cap-and-trade program.
See http://heartland.org/policy-documents/new-mexico-governor-ma...

And in South Carolina, Lindsey Graham is well below the 50 percent threshold in a recent poll of likely Republican primary voters in South Carolina.... Only 42 percent of likely Republican primary voters said they support the incumbent... Graham’s primary opponents are hammering the incumbent... particularly hard for his longstanding support for global warming restrictions. http://boards.fool.com/global-warming-in-the-sc-primary-3086...

Ironically, up until about two years ago, both parties supported the fraud of global warming.


-=Ajax=-

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