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Author: holly910 Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 17951  
Subject: Auto Insurance Question Date: 8/23/2001 11:16 AM
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I have a problem I hope someone can help me with. In a nutshell, my 21 year-old son isn't the best driver in the world. He has a 2000 Mustang that requires collsion insurance. He has a wreckless driving conviction, was involved in an at-fault accident last June that involved a lot of damage, and also had a theft claim on one car (just the CD player and damage) These have added up to a lot of insurance points and one ticket (wreckless driving) He hit a parked 1989 Ford Festiva that had some damage to both vehicles (more to his) He wanted to take care of the damages himself and prevent his insurance from increasing yet again. Problem is, the estimate on the 1989 car was $1849!!!!!!! I think it's ridiculous to borrow this amount to repair a car that old and am considering letting his insurance company handle it. Has anyone been in a similiar situation? Thnaks!
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Author: cdr46 Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 7720 of 17951
Subject: Re: Auto Insurance Question Date: 8/23/2001 12:00 PM
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holly910 writes:

"I have a problem I hope someone can help me with. In a nutshell, my 21 year-old son isn't the best driver in the world. He has a 2000 Mustang that requires collsion insurance"

You have hit a nerve here.

Not to sound rude or condescending, but it's your adult son that has the problem - and you are only exacerbating the problem by enabling him. You might do your son and yourself a big help in picking up a copy of Dr. Laura's new book "Stupid Things Parents Do To Mess Up Their Kids". - or visit her web site @ http://www.drlaura.com/main/

..."He hit a parked 1989 Ford Festiva...I think it's ridiculous to borrow this amount to repair a car that old"

Have you considered that the owner of this "old car" just might have to rely on that car for getting to and from work?

How did it just happen that your son hit a parked car? Was your son speeding? Was he under the influence or was he just not paying attention? Does your son have a job? Does he pay for his own insurance? Does he pay his own car payments?

You should also be most thankful that your son only hit a parked car and not a group of pedestrians.

I'm LOL here, in all due respect, if I am wrong - I apologize in advance, but you come across as just another - "I" and my "progeny" don't have to or don't want to assume self responsibility.

If your son is a reckless driver maybe he needs to be taught a lesson.

In my opinion, reckless drivers need to be dealt with more harshly by our judicial system. At a minimum - if convicted - reckless drivers should lose their drivers license for a period of at least 6 months. If they had to use public transportation or use a bicycle or walk to get where they need to go maybe when they got their driving privilege back they would be a more careful and responsible driver.

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Author: nuretiree Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 7721 of 17951
Subject: Re: Auto Insurance Question Date: 8/23/2001 12:00 PM
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I have a friend whose 19 year daughter put him in a similar situation. (3 speeding tickets and hit 2 parked cars in less than a year) He filed the claim with the insurance company, then sold her car and cancelled the insurance. After riding the bus and relying on friends for transportation for 2 years she turned into a much more responsible driver. His daughter was a student and he had purchased the car for her and was paying for the insurance.
If your son is on his own and paying his own way, I would advise him to pay the damages, the increase in insurance costs will most likely be far more than $1849 over the period of time the increase would be in effect.

Good luck

Nu







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Author: holly910 Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 7725 of 17951
Subject: Re: Auto Insurance Question Date: 8/23/2001 3:26 PM
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Let me clear a few things up for you: When my son was 19 years old, he was named "The Youngest Store Manager" in Neighbors' Store's history. I guess that qualifies as being a little responsible since he started working there part-time while in high school and is still there. Also, he bought the car ALL by himself and also pays his own insurance. We have never paid one cent toward any vehicle he's bought nor any toward his insurance premiums. The couple who own the 1989 Festiva DO NOT work; they are retired and looking to make a fast buck. Their "other" vehicle is a 2000 Ford Explorer so spare me the sympathy. The circumstances are none of your business, but since you ask, my son does not drink, was not speeding, and WAS paying attention; he was dodging an animal that ran out in the road (dog) and the Festiva was parked on the side of the street (their "good" car was in their driveway). I don't feel helping my son make a good decision qualifies as being an enabler; I consider it good parenting since neither of us knows the best thing to do in this situation. I really, really do appreciate your sound advice. By the way, are you supportive of your children or are they perfect?????

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Author: BeerBoy666 Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 7729 of 17951
Subject: Re: Auto Insurance Question Date: 8/23/2001 4:34 PM
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Depending on how the car was hit, $1849 does not sound ridiculous at all. Why should the people have to bear the cost because your son hit their car? They had an operational car that your son damaged, therefore they have the right to be made whole. Replace a panel and straighten a frame and total the cost. The way you describe the accident, it is your son's fault, the people who were hit bear no responsiblity. The responsibility for the repair is your sons, whether he wants to handle it himself or turn it in to the insurance company.

You say that the people are just out to make money. Well then, turn it into the insurance company. Then the people will be forced to use all the money on the repair. Of course, in many states the second at fault accident in three years on a policy is grounds for cancellation, but you show those people. Just because they don't work they have no reason not to expect your son to rectify the damages he caused.

You say that your son is responsible and was just sweving to avoid an animal. Was he doing the same when he was convicted of reckless driving? What was he trying to avoid when he had his previous at fault accident?

If reporting it raises insurance rates or leads to a cancelled policy that is the system working. Your son causes a lot of damage and he, not the rest of the policyholders, should be the one paying for it.

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Author: cdr46 Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 7732 of 17951
Subject: Re: Auto Insurance Question Date: 8/23/2001 5:58 PM
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My, my a bit touchy aren't we? Methinks thou protest too much!

Why didn't you say all of that in the first place.

Read my post I also said:

"...in all due respect, if I am wrong - I apologize in advance, but you come across as just another - "I" and my "progeny" don't have to or don't want to assume self responsibility"

Now reread your post.

Did you also blast nuretiree for his reply at:
http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=15619440

I still think the points I made in my post have something to say about reckless drivers in our society.

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Author: IndecisiveFool Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 7736 of 17951
Subject: Re: Auto Insurance Question Date: 8/23/2001 7:27 PM
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he was dodging an animal that ran out in the road (dog) and the Festiva was parked on the side of the street

Your son needs to learn to not swear for animals. He should have hit the dog instead of the car. What if next time it's not a Festiva but a kid or a mother pushing a stroller.

IF

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Author: greygreen Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 7738 of 17951
Subject: Re: Auto Insurance Question Date: 8/23/2001 10:26 PM
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holly910:

There are several things you and your son will want to consider in this situation:

1) Depending on the timing of the ticket for reckless driving and the previous accident, there may be a risk of being cancelled if you file a claim. Insurance companies differ in their tolerance levels for poor driving performance in short periods of time. Two at-fault accidents or three "events" (tickets, accidents, or other claims) in a three-year period are common criteria for determining when to cancel or non-renew a policy. The consequences for a cancellation or non-renewal can be pretty dire -- it frequently makes it very difficult to obtain coverage from another company. Often, the only available coverage following a cacellation or non-renewal is very expensive and at minimum limits of liability (if he thinks he's paying a lot now, he ain't seen nothing yet).

2) If you file the claim, that fact will be available through industry databases to all other companies in the event that you try to shop around for cheaper rates. You can't hide it once you file it.

3) You did not mention whether or not your son purchases his own policy or whether he pays his share of the premium on your policy. In the latter case, his cancellation potentially becomes your problem as well.

4) His choice of vehicle will compound the issue. I'm assuming that his Mustang is not the four-cylinder, economy variety. Fast car, young driver, bad driving record -- that can add up to annual premiums in the $2,000 - $4,000/year range in a real hurry.

On the other hand, chances are pretty good that the insurance company would probably negotiate a settlement on the 1989 Ford for less than $1849 (not that this saves you any money personally). It's less hassle for you to deal with it if you file the claim, and all of the legal documents would be in place to protect you from any issues that might develop down the line (i.e. actual repair costs exceed the estimate). And, that way you file the physical damage claim on the Mustang as well (it makes no sense to file the phys dam claim without the liability).

Your first step really needs to be a discussion with the insurance agent on the policy. Find out from him/her what will potentially happen if you file a claim. He/she should be able to tell you if a cancellation/non-renewal is likely and what the potential increase in premiums is likely to be. Companies differ in this regard, both among companies and for the same company operating in different states. You really can't make a good decision without this information, and this board will probably be unable to provide it unless one of the agents here deals with the same company in your state of residence.

That said, and I'm saying this out of genuine concern, if it were my son, I would definitely have a heart-to-heart talk. So far, he's been lucky in that he's hurt nobody and he's remained unscathed himself. It is statistically proven that young drivers in sports cars are dangerous. They have a higher incidence of death and injury than their counterparts driving more sedate cars. Talking him into selling the Mustang to save money might just be the talk that saves his life, especially if his driving skills leave something to be desired.

greygreen

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Author: holly910 Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 7745 of 17951
Subject: Re: Auto Insurance Question Date: 8/24/2001 10:54 AM
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Thanks so very much for all the information; certainly a lot to consider! You offer some very sound advice and I really appreciate it. My son pays his own insurance, own car payments....A new Mustang wasn't the car I would have recommended, but as long as it's his money, it was his choice. I'm going to pass all this info. along to him and he'll make his own decision. Thanks again for your help!

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Author: holly910 Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 7746 of 17951
Subject: Re: Auto Insurance Question Date: 8/24/2001 1:50 PM
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My son doesn't swear at animals or anyone else. It was a split-second decision to miss the animal. Guess you've never made a mistake. Thanks for the really helpful advice.








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Author: IndecisiveFool Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 7747 of 17951
Subject: Re: Auto Insurance Question Date: 8/24/2001 2:09 PM
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My son doesn't swear at animals or anyone else. It was a split-second decision to miss the animal. Guess you've never made a mistake. Thanks for the really helpful advice.

I've made plenty of mistakes. It is a natural instinct to swerve to miss hitting an animal. Therefore, you need to be trained that hitting an animal often leads to less serious consequences than swerving to miss.

IF


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Author: holly910 Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 7748 of 17951
Subject: Re: Auto Insurance Question Date: 8/24/2001 2:18 PM
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Thanks a million for all the helpful information. It gives a lot of options and good suggestions-----precisely what I was looking for when I posted the question. We have discussed selling the automobile, but that decision is ultimately his. (This is his 3rd vehicle and he's worked and gradually traded up and paid for all three). He pays his own insurance policy too. I just wanted to offer him a little guidance and needed some constructive suggestions. Thanks again; I really appreciate it.

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Author: cdr46 Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 7750 of 17951
Subject: Re: Auto Insurance Question Date: 8/24/2001 6:05 PM
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greygreen writes:
..."If you file the claim"

Please I am not being critical here, only inquiring. You make many good points as did nuretiree, BeerBoy666, and if I say so, myself regarding this post. But, I thought most insurance companies required that you notify them if you are involved in any incident where there may be or is a claim over a certain threshold - say $500.00?

If you don't notify your insurance company and the other party files a claim can't your insurance company drop you like a rock? In my neck of the woods - it is also required to file a police report if the damage estimate is over a certain thresehold. Don't insurance companies review official police accident reports?

Only asking?

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Author: greygreen Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 7755 of 17951
Subject: Re: Auto Insurance Question Date: 8/25/2001 9:57 PM
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cdr46:

The answer to your question is, "it depends." The original poster did not identify a state of residence or carrier. Without that information, it is impossible to determine what is "required" by law, contract, or local custom. It is not my place to ask that question or pretend to know enough about the laws and policy forms in a local jurisdiction to offer anything resembling competent advice. There are millions of permutations out there when it comes to combinations of policies and local laws. That is why I recommended contacting the agent responsible for the policy. He/she will know the local laws regarding incident and will know the requirements of the policy in question. Armed with that information, the poster and progeny then must make their own decisions.

That said, there would appear to be some evidence that the poster knows the folks who experienced the damage. While I don't endorse solving such a case "under the table," I recognize that it happens, sometimes to the benefit of both parties. In this case, there is more to be learned from the incident than just dealing with an insurance claim, I wish poster and progeny long, loving lives.

greygreen

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Author: markr33 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 7767 of 17951
Subject: Re: Auto Insurance Question Date: 8/28/2001 3:04 PM
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My son doesn't swear at animals or anyone else. It was a split-second decision to miss the animal. Guess you've never made a mistake. Thanks for the really helpful advice.

Insurance companies typically don't drop people after a mistake - they usually wait for 2 or 3 mistakes.


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Author: cdr46 Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 7781 of 17951
Subject: Re: Auto Insurance Question Date: 9/2/2001 2:01 PM
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holly910 writes:

". To BEERBOY666 (what kind of name is that------ever been arrested for DWI) and CDR46, I hope your kids are perfect as you obviously are. "

I can't answer for Beerboy666, but obviously, in one of my post that I assume you had "pulled", I answered your questions concerning my children and my parenting skills.

Thanks for insinuating that I am perfect. I am not - close - but no cigar. But, as a family unit the only traffic tickets ever received by "us" have been a couple of parking tickets. I think the "crime" of not getting back in time to put another quarter in a parking meter, doesn't even fall within the shadow of "reckless" driving.

For further information regarding the effects of reckless driving and the cost to society - go to:

http://www.google.com/search?q=%22reckless+driving%22&sa=Google+Search&cat=&hl=%28null%29

http://www.state.ga.us/cycc/ar/edu.html
Driving Ambition introduces viewers to Georgia families who know first hand the effects of reckless driving, speeding and DUI. The cost to society is staggering. The emotional cost is impossible to measure.

http://www.aloha.net/~dyc/distracted.html
http://www.soc.hawaii.edu/leonj/leonj/459f96/rmitsui/reports/report7.html
http://www.gottrouble.com/legal/criminal/criminal_law/recklessdriving.html



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Author: WauseonFox Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 7782 of 17951
Subject: Re: Auto Insurance Question Date: 9/2/2001 8:33 PM
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cdr:

1. What Holly charged was uncalled for.

2. Your response was uncalled for.

3. 'Nuff said.

--WauseonFox--

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Author: nuretiree Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 7784 of 17951
Subject: Re: Auto Insurance Question Date: 9/3/2001 10:20 AM
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I would guess that most people are guilty of reckless driving at some time or other in their lives. The fact that we haven't received a ticket for it does not make us any less guilty. Each state has different reckless driving laws. For example: 99 miles an hour in California will get you a speeding ticket. 81 miles an hour in North Caroling may get you a reckless driving ticket. Having driven I-95 in North Carolina, I would estimate that approximately 50% of the traffic outside the populated areas are guilty of reckless driving during daylight hours. I would not condemn someone as a bad person for receiving a reckless driving ticket. Just as I would not commend someone for not receiving one. (some states either do not have or do not enforce reckless driving laws related to speeding)

Those who drive outside their own state may wish to visit the link below to view the laws of other states to avoid being charged for driving violations related to speed not enforced in their home state.

http://www.mit.edu/~jfc/laws.html

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