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Author: cjb44 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 1977408  
Subject: Bad financial decisions of the poor... Date: 2/8/2013 8:07 AM
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I always thought the nickname "whole paycheck" was cute. I didn't realize it was real to some people. If you are making $16,000 a year you can not shop at Whole Foods. You can get healthy organic food in most stores, and usually for less.

Ms. Price, 20, whose annual income is $15,000 to $16,000, prefers shopping at Whole Foods, the upscale supermarket chain, which is healthier but more expensive. But since the payroll tax went up, she has been going more often to Publix and Walmart.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/08/business/restored-payroll-...
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Author: Rightime Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858451 of 1977408
Subject: Re: Bad financial decisions of the poor... Date: 2/8/2013 8:14 AM
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since the payroll tax went up, she has been going more often to Publix and Walmart.



You mean the $6.00 a week in increased payroll tax is what is causing her to switch her shopping choices?

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858453 of 1977408
Subject: Re: Bad financial decisions of the poor... Date: 2/8/2013 8:19 AM
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You mean the $6.00 a week in increased payroll tax is what is causing her to switch her shopping choices?
_____________________________

I think we should cut 6 dollars a week from all folks recieving assistance, and from all folks getting food stamps and all folks paying any form of taxes should pay 6 dollars more.

As long as we can agree that 6 dollars a week is not a problem, I think we should keep increasing and taking that amount in and not giving that amount out until we are in a surplus.

Because obviously 6 dollars a week is really not going to impact anyone.

Good catch, you have just solved all our problems thanks.

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Author: cjb44 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858454 of 1977408
Subject: Re: Bad financial decisions of the poor... Date: 2/8/2013 8:24 AM
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You mean the $6.00 a week in increased payroll tax is what is causing her to switch her shopping choices?

_________________

According to the New York Times, yes...but I agree it's doubtful.

The poor decision was going there in the first place. If you're making $16,000 a year Whole Foods shouldn't be your store of choice. You also shouldn't be driving a BMW or buying a million dollar house.

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Author: richieds Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858456 of 1977408
Subject: Re: Bad financial decisions of the poor... Date: 2/8/2013 8:46 AM
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" If you are making $16,000 a year you can not shop at Whole Foods. "


Haven't you , and others to be fair, suggested, that this person's taxes should be hiked to cut the deficit? As in, all Americans should be paying taxes?

Haven't you, and others in this forum, also suggested that Obamacare is going to take away our freedom of "choice" in healthcare, as if this person can really afford to shop around for theirs?

Yet, you admit that, at their income level, they shouldn't even have a freedom of choice on where they buy their food?

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Author: Rightime Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858457 of 1977408
Subject: Re: Bad financial decisions of the poor... Date: 2/8/2013 8:53 AM
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I think we should keep taking that amount in and not giving that amount out until we are in a surplus.
Because obviously 6 dollars a week is really not going to impact anyone.
Good catch, you have just solved all our problems thanks.


a $6.00 a week increase for someone earning $300.00 a week
a $400.00 a week increase for someone earning $20,000.00 a week

It's the standard payroll tax we've been paying for decades, it didn't solve all the world's problems then, it will not solve all our problems again today.

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Author: cjb44 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858458 of 1977408
Subject: Re: Bad financial decisions of the poor... Date: 2/8/2013 8:55 AM
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Yet, you admit that, at their income level, they shouldn't even have a freedom of choice on where they buy their food?

_____________

Oh they have the freedom of choice...just don't whine about it when you poor decisions hurt you. Don't ask for help because you did something that common sense dictates you shouldn't have.

You have the right to make mistakes and bad decisions. Just don't complain about it afterwards.

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Author: richieds Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858469 of 1977408
Subject: Re: Bad financial decisions of the poor... Date: 2/8/2013 10:02 AM
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"Don't ask for help because you did something that common sense dictates you shouldn't have."


Obviously, if you cannot afford something, you shouldn't buy it.

The point is that we kept hearing, from the right, that Obamacare was taking away your freedom of choice in healthcare. My point, then, was that few people have ever had such a freedom. Cost dictates where most go for their health insurance and health services.

Imagine being in a position where you don't have the freedom to choose where to guy groceries. Now multiply that by a thousand and you begin to get close on healthcare.

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Author: cjb44 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858482 of 1977408
Subject: Re: Bad financial decisions of the poor... Date: 2/8/2013 11:17 AM
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My point, then, was that few people have ever had such a freedom

__________

That's a point I disagree whole heartly. Unless you live in a small town with one doctor, your choice wasn't limited. Now it's not only limited more than before but costs more.

My biggest problem was the huge increase in cost and reduction in coverage.

The "affordable health care act" didn't make it more affordable it made it less. Even if you bought into the myth of a massive crisis, the law didn't solve it. It was the wrong solution.

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Author: richieds Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858527 of 1977408
Subject: Re: Bad financial decisions of the poor... Date: 2/8/2013 1:22 PM
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"Even if you bought into the myth of a massive crisis,"

If you didn't buy into the "myth", it is because you've never been in the market for individual health insurance.

Most Americans were blinded by the fact that their jobs paid the bulk of their insurance and the rest was just deducted from their paycheck. For them, healthcare was a "right" and it never occurred to them that it was one that could be taken away.

"My biggest problem was the huge increase in cost and reduction in coverage."

The increase in cost has not been any different than it was before. Rates have not increased, nationally, in the past few years any more than they had been the past decade. In fact, some signs point to lower rates of increase.

http://ebn.benefitnews.com/news/survey-health-care-inflation...

Keep in mind, Obamacare is not in effect yet.

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Author: eudaimon6 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858585 of 1977408
Subject: Re: Bad financial decisions of the poor... Date: 2/8/2013 5:32 PM
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I was in my local Schnucks grocery store, which is a nicer midwestern chain, but not a patch on whole foods by any stretch of the imagination.

Organic free range chicken breasts were $10.99 a pound there this afternoon.

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Author: icono5 Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858596 of 1977408
Subject: Re: Bad financial decisions of the poor... Date: 2/8/2013 7:39 PM
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"I was in my local Schnucks grocery store, which is a nicer midwestern chain, but not a patch on whole foods by any stretch of the imagination.

Organic free range chicken breasts were $10.99 a pound there this afternoon"

---------------------------------

I'm glad to see this illustration, for it raises an important point. We can rail all we want at poor decision-making, but we have market conditions that encourage it. As long as manufacturers and distributors do not bear any long-term health-related costs for clearly demonstrated health hazards (e.g., high-fructose corn syrup, partially hydrogenated oils, and other high-volume synthetic strategies), then our social/economic system will remain to some extent self-reinforcing.

If someone on a very tight budget has a choice between an item for $1.00 loaded with processed cr** and a comparable item for $3.50 with much healthier ingredients, (s)he will likely and understandably choose the former. Do we then applaud the "common-sense" nature of such a decision, which in the aggregate compounds all sorts of chronic conditions and mortality factors? Or do we acknowledge that giant agribusiness conglomerates share _some_ responsibility for the decisions that individual citizens make? (I know: "commie," "commie," "commie." Lol.)

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Author: MetroChick Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858606 of 1977408
Subject: Re: Bad financial decisions of the poor... Date: 2/8/2013 10:17 PM
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Ms. Price, 20, whose annual income is $15,000 to $16,000, prefers shopping at Whole Foods, the upscale supermarket chain, which is healthier but more expensive. But since the payroll tax went up, she has been going more often to Publix and Walmart.

I'm twice her age and make about 6 times her income - and I only buy a few specific items from Whole Foods - they're expensive. I wonder what she's considering "healthier" - for fruits/veggies where one isn't eating the skin, organic isn't automatically "healthier" (although I will say Whole Foods fresh fruits seem to be of higher quality/taste better than larger grocery chains). And if she's talking about processed foods, Whole Foods probably isn't much healthier than processed foods from the larger chains. Is a Newman's Own pseudo-Oreo cookie "healthier" than a genuine Oreo cookie - probably not.

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Author: HMALETTER Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858671 of 1977408
Subject: Re: Bad financial decisions of the poor... Date: 2/9/2013 3:35 PM
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The increase in cost has not been any different than it was before. Rates have not increased, nationally, in the past few years any more than they had been the past decade. In fact, some signs point to lower rates of increase.

http://ebn.benefitnews.com/news/survey-health-care-inflation......

Keep in mind, Obamacare is not in effect yet.
_______________

Amazing the latitude people give health care in general. People have ignored the enormous differences in health care inflation. It is inevitable.





"Employers expect another relatively low increase of 5.0% for 2013. However, this increase reflects changes they plan to make to reduce cost; if they made no changes, cost would rise by an average of 7.4%.
"

How have employers dealt with the ever-increasing rates? Yes, I know yours have never gone up, except lately ;) But I've seen personally how employers shift from one carrier to another, again and again. Gradually, OOP goes up, fewer things are covered, but rates end up higher over any 3-5 year period regardless.

"Success in controlling cost growth in recent years may be contributing to employers’ commitment to providing health coverage. Few believe it is likely that they will terminate their employee health plans within the next five years, even though state-based health insurance exchanges will provide another source of health coverage for individuals beginning in 2014. Just 7% of large employers and 22% of small employers (those with 10-499 employees) believe it is likely or very likely that they will do so.

In fact, there was a slight uptick in the percentage of employers offering coverage in 2012: it rose from 55% to 59%, after falling in each of the previous two years. Most of the increase was among the smallest employers – those with 10-49 employees – which are the least likely to offer coverage and the quickest to drop it when cost goes up.

Enrollment shift to low-cost consumer-directed health plans helped to hold down overall cost increase

With a growing number of employers now positioning a high-deductible, account-based consumer-directed health plan as their primary plan – or even their only plan – employee enrollment jumped from 13% to 16% of all covered employees in 2012. Many employers see these plans as central to their response to health care reform provisions that will raise enrollment. Over the past two years, offerings of CDHPs have risen from 17% to 22% of all employers, and from 23% to 36% of employers with 500 or more employees. Well over half (59%) of very large organizations (20,000 or more employees), which typically offer employees a choice of medical plans, now offer a CDHP.

“If we’re not already at the tipping point for CDHPs – and we may well be – at this rate of growth it’s coming soon,” said Sharon Cunninghis, Mercer’s U.S. business leader for health and benefits.

"

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