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Author: MrCynic Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 1957185  
Subject: Black Friend Defends Zimmerman Date: 3/26/2012 8:27 AM
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Black friend defends shooter of Florida teen. “George Zimmerman is not a racist and cried for days after shooting dead a black Florida teenager," a black, longtime friend of Zimmerman said on Sunday in a sympathetic portrayal of a man maligned by critics as a trigger-happy bigot.

Here's another fact to be dismissed and willfully ignored by the wannabe lynch mob.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/25/us-usa-florida-sho...
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Author: kenm47 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1762005 of 1957185
Subject: Re: Black Friend Defends Zimmerman Date: 3/26/2012 8:37 AM
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"Here's another fact ..."

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

Ken

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Author: SaintPatrick1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1762012 of 1957185
Subject: Re: Black Friend Defends Zimmerman Date: 3/26/2012 9:11 AM
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It is a fact that a black friend of Zimmerman defended him on Good Morning America this morning.

You can say that Zimmerman used a gun at a fist fight.
You can say that he was an overenthusiastic Barney Fife.
You can say that he was looking for trouble.
You can say that he faces an uncertain future because of the killing.
You can say that he showed poor judgement.
You can say that his actions took the life of a young boy that had a great future.
You can say that he should be locked up.


It's getting harder to say that he is a racist.
It's getting harder to say that he started the physical contact.
It's getting harder to say that he is evil incarnate.


I learned this weekend on this board that most people here are all or nothing. Obama is all bad or all good. Romney is all bad or all good. I don't usually think that way but I think I slide into it more when I have posted to this board over the past ten years. When I saw people going on and on about how great Elizabeth Warren would be for the Massachusetts Senate seat, I went mad and have been posting horridly mean attacks about her. I don't think she is that bad, I think she has done some good things in her career, but I don't think she would be better for Massachusetts than Scott Brown will be ... nonetheless you would think that she killed my dog the way I write about her here.

I guess it's good to get aggression out on this board. I like posting to this board more than I do posting to other boards because I know that most won't agree with me here about politics. But it would be good if people here would admit when they are wrong once in a while. It would be good if just because you had a fight in a post with someone in the past that you don't join the discussion just to hurl an insult. It would be good if people used this forum to learn things instead of root-root-root for the home team and not give up an inch to the other side.

I remember a few years ago I was having a discussion with friends and took the liberal side of the argument and was pretty passionate about it. I thought, hey, I could go on PA and ask people's opinions about this and get some ammo for my next conversations with these people in the real word. So I posted a question ... even described why I wanted the info. What I got back was sideswipes, venom and accusations that I was framing the question wrongly and that I didn't understand the situation at all and that is not the right question to ask and... you get the point.

Albaby is a great resource on this board and puts such effort into the posts s/he writes (I always see the name albaby and think allbaby and think of pregnancy ...and think albaby is a woman, although I am pretty sure it's Al Baby! and he is a man) and think that such participation makes this board worthwhile. Colovion has been a great resource for this Zimmerman discussion and I would respect Colovion's opinion regardless of if I was against him in a discussion.

Peterabit and I have fought bitterly on the keyboards over the past ten years and sometimes I purposefully made him mad in the worst PA-way. But I give him credit for working his thoughts out on this board and sticking to his guns (even though his support of conspiracy theories make me want to reach through the computer screen myself and strangle him) and even for proving me wrong a few times.

I miss GHDude, GHDude1, GHGal. Don't know if he lurks here, probably not. But the insight that he gave into the military ... you could write a book almost with a collection of his posts.

There are others who can spar with you over the blueness of the sky like Mr. Ken47(it's not really blue it's just the way that light refracts before it reaches the earth...) but even he was right about Lost not being a good tv show in the end.

Anyway, thanks for bringing the info and passion and understanding to this board.

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Author: wzambon Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1762034 of 1957185
Subject: Re: Black Friend Defends Zimmerman Date: 3/26/2012 10:06 AM
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Black friend defends shooter of Florida teen. “George Zimmerman is not a racist and cried for days after shooting dead a black Florida teenager," a black, longtime friend of Zimmerman said on Sunday in a sympathetic portrayal of a man maligned by critics as a trigger-happy bigot.

There's no reason to doubt the truth of this statement.

However, it is not relevant to whether or not Zimmerman is guilty or innocent of murder.

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Author: Vetiver Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1762042 of 1957185
Subject: Re: Black Friend Defends Zimmerman Date: 3/26/2012 10:15 AM
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"You can say that Zimmerman used a gun at a fist fight.
You can say that he was an overenthusiastic Barney Fife.
You can say that he was looking for trouble.
You can say that he faces an uncertain future because of the killing.
You can say that he showed poor judgement.
You can say that his actions took the life of a young boy that had a great future.
You can say that he should be locked up."


You can say he has a previous history of calling 911 over Black people walking through a neighborhood that is 25% Black.

You can say that only based on the kid being Black, Zimmerman concluded that the kid was on drugs.

You can say he called the kid a coon.

You can say that he lied to the police about being jumped when he spoke directly to the kid immediately prior to the altercation.

You can say he has a previous arrest for assaulting a cop.

You can say that the police lied to the victim's family about Zimmerman's squeaky clean record.

You can say that the police tried to instruct a witness what to say.

You can say that the police took no pictures of the crime scene, the supposed grass stains on Zimmerman;s back or his supposed injuries.

You can say that the police failed to test the shooter for drugs or alcohol.

You can say that the police noted no injuries to the shooter and added that in later.

You can say that the police failed to call for medical attention for the shooter's supposed injuries.

You can say that the police made no effort to identify the dead kid.

You can say that the police failed to notice that the kid was on the phone at the time of the shooting and possibly there was a witness that heard the whole thing.

You can say that the Sanford police have a history of failing to arrest an obvious perp when that's what suits them.

You can say that the previous event, where the son of a policeman beat up a homeless man but managed not to get arrested merited the replacement of the police chief but the current circumstances where an innocent person was killed apparently do not.

V.

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Author: sano Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1762045 of 1957185
Subject: Re: Black Friend Defends Zimmerman Date: 3/26/2012 10:18 AM
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Here's another fact to be dismissed and willfully ignored by the wannabe lynch mob.

Maybe it's a Fox fact, but in the real world it's just the opinions of Mommy's friend.

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Author: sano Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1762068 of 1957185
Subject: Re: Black Friend Defends Zimmerman Date: 3/26/2012 11:20 AM
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“George Zimmerman is not a racist and cried for days after shooting dead a black Florida teenager," a black, longtime friend of Zimmerman said on Sunday in a sympathetic portrayal of a man maligned by critics as a trigger-happy bigot.

There's no reason to doubt the truth of this statement.


You're discounting that some people are selective racists.

Grandparents who dote over their black/white granchild, yet harbor racist sentiments against other black people.

How many times have you heard people claim, "but I have a colored friend" or "some of my friends are jewish," and it turns your stomach because you know the person is a flippin' racist.

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Author: Colovion Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1762070 of 1957185
Subject: Re: Black Friend Defends Zimmerman Date: 3/26/2012 11:21 AM
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You can say he has a previous history of calling 911 over Black people walking through a neighborhood that is 25% Black.

Irrelevant. He called the cops on EVERYONE apparenlty.

You can say that only based on the kid being Black, Zimmerman concluded that the kid was on drugs.

Possibly, but it was more likely the furtive actions he was making than his skin color.

You can say he called the kid a coon.

Possibly. Every time I hear that part of the tape it is bleeped out and others have said it's hard to make out what he's saying exactly. I'm not going to conceed a point that isn't definitive.

You can say that he lied to the police about being jumped when he spoke directly to the kid immediately prior to the altercation.

Nope. He could have spoken to him, turned around then been jumped. Speaking to him doesn't disprove he was jumped. Doesn't prove it either, but another point I won't concede without actual proof.

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Author: Colovion Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1762081 of 1957185
Subject: Re: Black Friend Defends Zimmerman Date: 3/26/2012 11:39 AM
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Crap, hit "submit" too soon, continuing:

You can say he has a previous arrest for assaulting a cop.

True.

You can say that the police lied to the victim's family about Zimmerman's squeaky clean record.

Seems someone spoke out of line when they didn't have all the information. Technically they lied, but I don't think it was with the intent of covering anything up. Making a mountain out of a molehill on this one.

You can say that the police tried to instruct a witness what to say.

Possibly, though it doesn't seem likely IMHO. No need with the rest of the evidence piling up.

You can say that the police took no pictures of the crime scene, the supposed grass stains on Zimmerman;s back or his supposed injuries.

No, you can't say that at all. Not until the full report is released. They very well could have, but they aren't going to release the full report for an open investigation. This is like the "they didn't even confiscate the gun!" lie that first came out when right there in the very last line of the partial report that was released it says that the gun was placed into evidence. So I don't believe this for a second until it is proved by the full report.

You can say that the police failed to test the shooter for drugs or alcohol.

Same as the above. They very well could have, but that part of the report hasn't been released and won't be until it comes up in court.

You can say that the police noted no injuries to the shooter and added that in later.

Considering those injuries are noted in the original narrative from the report I'd say this is 100% false based on the evidence we do have.

You can say that the police failed to call for medical attention for the shooter's supposed injuries.

From the partial report released paramedics were summoned. It was a paramedic on the scene that declared him deceased. So, 100% wrong on this score.

You can say that the police made no effort to identify the dead kid.

Something about this still bothers me. A 17-year-old kid with NO ID on him? I've had ID on me 24/7/365 since I turned 15, in my experience the only people walking around without ID do so for a reason. That's conjecture, but it's a red flag in my experience. As for the phone, I still want to know if it was locked or damaged (it was dropped apparently.) So, again, I'm not conceeding this point until the report comes out and clears it up.

Plus he was shot pretty damn close to the house he was visiting... how did THEY not know what had gone down mere yards from their back door the night before?!? Talk about oblivous!

You can say that the police failed to notice that the kid was on the phone at the time of the shooting and possibly there was a witness that heard the whole thing.

Again, that assumes the phone was in working order and not locked when the cops got it. I get phones turned in all of the time at work, almost all of them are locked when we get them so they're useless as far as finding the owners. That's the POINT of locking them, to hide your contacts from someone who shouldn't be snooping in there. So, again, I'm waiting for the report on this one.

You can say that the Sanford police have a history of failing to arrest an obvious perp when that's what suits them.

One incident I know of (not counting this one, per Florida law they couldn't arrest Zimmerman for self-defense.) Irrelevant really.

You can say that the previous event, where the son of a policeman beat up a homeless man but managed not to get arrested merited the replacement of the police chief but the current circumstances where an innocent person was killed apparently do not.

Well, the cops didn't kill Trayvon, so what's your point? If someone is killed in their jurisdiction they are responsible? Hah, doesn't work that way. At all. And there's no proof of a cover-up besides your conspiracy theory, which is nice and all but hardly rises to the level of what is needed to revamp the department.

The department, as far as I can tell, isn't CALEA accredited. That's a shame for them. Having that accreditation would protect them from a lot of these attacks on their integrity. I still don't think they did anything wrong in this case until proven otherwise (and I'm certainly not going to take the word of a bunch of cop haters in this regard) but perhaps this will show them the benefit of accreditation. Thankfully my department IS accredited, it's a very good thing for all involved when that can be said.

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Author: sano Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1762095 of 1957185
Subject: Re: Black Friend Defends Zimmerman Date: 3/26/2012 11:57 AM
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Possibly, but it was more likely the furtive actions he was making than his skin color.

You bought into the 'furtive' assessment?

When Zimmerman cruises the hood looking at peoples houses it's not furtive, but when Martin walks around looking it's furtive?

fur·tive/'f?rtiv/
Adjective:
1.Attempting to avoid notice or attention, typically because of guilt or a belief that discovery would lead to trouble; secretive.
2.Suggestive of guilty nervousness


Furtive? What was he doing that was furtive? Walking and looking around with a beverage, talking on the cellphone is furtive? Or was it getting nervous when realizinng he was being followed in the dark? Was that furtive?

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Author: wzambon Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1762107 of 1957185
Subject: Re: Black Friend Defends Zimmerman Date: 3/26/2012 12:16 PM
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How many times have you heard people claim, "but I have a colored friend" or "some of my friends are jewish," and it turns your stomach because you know the person is a flippin' racist.

I've seen the phenomenon on many occasions, but I don't see any evidence here that suggests it is the case in this instance.

A black friend claims that Zimmerman is not a racist. If he is actually a close friend, he probably knows better than you or I, given that his information is experiential and first hand, whereas you and I are at the mercy of the latest sensationalist "fact" to emerge from the media.

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Author: sano Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1762112 of 1957185
Subject: Re: Black Friend Defends Zimmerman Date: 3/26/2012 12:23 PM
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A 17-year-old kid with NO ID on him? I've had ID on me 24/7/365 since I turned 15, in my experience the only people walking around without ID do so for a reason.

When I was a kid I never took anything to the beach or park that I didn't want stolen.

I still don't carry ID when I bike to the beach or when I go walking and jogging. Cellphone, yes, with the I.C.E. entires. Wallet, heck no.

Well, the cops didn't kill Trayvon, so what's your point?

The shooter was a cop wannabe. He was taking classes toward that end. I have a hunch he was well known to the cops. It's proof of nothing, but I've had to fire a wannabe who the sheriffs consider a real nuisance. Reminds me of Zimmerman. This wannabe is certified in navy small arms (9,12,14). He also has some violence issues like Zimmerman. He's a ticking time bomb. Fat, insecure, can't keep a job, get's into realllly stupid trouble..... and armed

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Author: 99lashes Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1762113 of 1957185
Subject: Re: Black Friend Defends Zimmerman Date: 3/26/2012 12:23 PM
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Oh no, that guy is going to be just an "Uncle Tom".

UC

99

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Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1762117 of 1957185
Subject: Re: Black Friend Defends Zimmerman Date: 3/26/2012 12:26 PM
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The shooter was a cop wannabe.

So was Zoro

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Author: wzambon Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1762125 of 1957185
Subject: Re: Black Friend Defends Zimmerman Date: 3/26/2012 12:32 PM
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So was Zoro

Zoro was a fiction.

And so were the characters played by Marion Morrison.

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Author: wzambon Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1762130 of 1957185
Subject: Re: Black Friend Defends Zimmerman Date: 3/26/2012 12:35 PM
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John Wayne wore a size 7 shoe.

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Author: sano Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1762132 of 1957185
Subject: Re: Black Friend Defends Zimmerman Date: 3/26/2012 12:37 PM
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If he is actually a close friend, he probably knows better than you or I, given that his information is experiential and first hand, whereas you and I are at the mercy of the latest sensationalist "fact" to emerge from the media.

Do we give it more or less credence than the testimonials from Martin's family and friends?

I take the testimonials from both sides with a grain of salt.

The investigation has a long way to go. The information that is available is insufficient proof of anything but what it is.

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Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1762133 of 1957185
Subject: Re: Black Friend Defends Zimmerman Date: 3/26/2012 12:39 PM
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John Wayne wore a size 7 shoe.

If he had Obamacare he could have seen a Dr about that.

Bears

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Author: sano Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1762135 of 1957185
Subject: Re: Black Friend Defends Zimmerman Date: 3/26/2012 12:45 PM
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So was Zoro

Sigh. Don't you know anyting ;-)

ZORRO was no zimmerman/cop wannabe. He was the exact opposite.

Zorro would have disarmed Zimmerman and carved a z in his fat ass.

black-clad masked outlaw who defends the people of the land against tyrannical officials and other villains. Not only is he much too cunning and foxlike for the bumbling authorities to catch, but he delights in publicly humiliating those same foes.

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Author: Vetiver Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1762136 of 1957185
Subject: Re: Black Friend Defends Zimmerman Date: 3/26/2012 12:46 PM
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"He called the cops on EVERYONE apparently."

No. It was "suspicious Blacks"

""the furtive actions he was making..."

You were there or are you just inventing things. The kid was walking home talking on the phone. What reason did he have to be "furtive" or is being Black being furtive in your eyes as well?.

"He could have spoken to him, turned around then been jumped."
No. The scuffle started during the verbal exchange. Zimmerman asked the kid who are you. The kid asked him why he was following him and then the phone drops. Zimmerman lied about being jumped.

"Making a mountain out of a molehill on this one." That the guy that killed your kid has a previous arrest for assaulting a cop and the police just lied to you about it?

"A 17-year-old kid with NO ID on him? I've had ID on me 24/7/365 since I turned 15, in my experience the only people walking around without ID do so for a reason. That's conjecture, but it's a red flag in my experience. As for the phone, I still want to know if it was locked or damaged (it was dropped apparently."

Assume the phone was completely destroyed. How hard would it be for the police to identify the owner of the sim card?

"...he was shot pretty damn close to the house he was visiting... how did THEY not know what had gone down mere yards from their back door the night before?"

Maybe if there had actually been something of an investigation on the scene. But that's what this argument was about, there seems to have been none.

V.

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Author: SaintPatrick1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1762149 of 1957185
Subject: Re: Black Friend Defends Zimmerman Date: 3/26/2012 1:09 PM
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No. It was "suspicious Blacks"

I think I heard him say that there were some incidents with young black men ... I did not hear that all of Zimmerman's calls were about black men.

The kid asked him why he was following him and then the phone drops. Zimmerman lied about being jumped.

I don't see how you know he lied. Did George say that Trayvon came from no where or did he say that he hit George first?

That the guy that killed your kid has a previous arrest for assaulting a cop and the police just lied to you about it?

I am not sure that the police lied. They passed on information. There were no convictions as far as Zimmerman was concerned.

Maybe if there had actually been something of an investigation on the scene. But that's what this argument was about, there seems to have been none.

I think that while there have been drips and drabs of information about this event, there has not been a complete, professional communication of what did, or didn't happen. Then you have people taking innuendo and turning it into news...like Sharpton saying that the boy laid anonymous in the morgue for three days when his father identified him the next morning.

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Author: Colovion Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1762156 of 1957185
Subject: Re: Black Friend Defends Zimmerman Date: 3/26/2012 1:19 PM
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How many times have you heard people claim, "but I have a colored friend" or "some of my friends are jewish," and it turns your stomach because you know the person is a flippin' racist.

None. I'm not saying racists don't exist, they certainly do. But how is someone who isn't racist supposed to deny it? They can't. To be accused of it is to be guilty in the eyes of those making the accusation. I've been called racist more times than I can count. But I know damn well that I'm not. How do I prove I'm not? Divorce my wife and marry a minority? Go into poverty adopting a dozen minority orphans? Or simply go about my business not pre-judging others and rolling my eyes at the race-baiters who call me racist because I'm a Conservative, or I'm white, or I'm not an Obama supporter, or I'm an NRA member, or I work for the police, or I'm against Affirmative Action, or any of the other million things that have nothing to do with race but in the eyes of some has to be related to race? Well, that's what I do.

And, just because I can, I'll point out that my son will be attending a week-long daycamp provided by the Ann Arbor Jewish Community Center this summer. I'm not even remotely Jewish. I live in a very diverse community, perhaps the most diverse city in the state of Michigan. I don't have to live here. I don't have to work here. But I do, and while plenty of things frustrate me about this town "them coloreds" or "them Jews" or "them Orientals" don't count at all in that equation.

How does someone like me "prove" they aren't racist? For some it doesn't matter, I'm clearly guilty for some reason. So screw em. They can think whatever they think, if they don't believe me they can kiss my... ahem.

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Author: Colovion Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1762181 of 1957185
Subject: Re: Black Friend Defends Zimmerman Date: 3/26/2012 2:07 PM
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Furtive? What was he doing that was furtive? Walking and looking around with a beverage, talking on the cellphone is furtive? Or was it getting nervous when realizinng he was being followed in the dark? Was that furtive?

Probably the latter. Hey, if it looks suspicious it looks suspicious. Sometimes a duck is just a duck.

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Author: Colovion Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1762196 of 1957185
Subject: Re: Black Friend Defends Zimmerman Date: 3/26/2012 3:01 PM
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No. It was "suspicious Blacks"

I imagine you'd have to listen to the transcripts of all 49 calls (or however many there were) to be sure of that, knock yourself out eh!

You were there or are you just inventing things. The kid was walking home talking on the phone. What reason did he have to be "furtive" or is being Black being furtive in your eyes as well?.

It was his perception, don't ask me.

No. The scuffle started during the verbal exchange. Zimmerman asked the kid who are you. The kid asked him why he was following him and then the phone drops. Zimmerman lied about being jumped.

So the phone could have only dropped if Zimmerman jumped Martin, but not if Martin jumped Zimmerman. Huh, I didn't know physics worked like that. You learn something new every day. Is this selective gravity effect purely race-based or was Trayvon a wizard?

That the guy that killed your kid has a previous arrest for assaulting a cop and the police just lied to you about it?

Erroneous information gets out all of the time. That's why it's better to say nothing than say something you misunderstand. Perhaps he was referring to convictions and not the record, I don't know I wasn't there. But it's a detail that, in the grand scheme of things, is irrelevant anyway. Obviously it wasn't serious enough for him to get a concealed carry license.

Assume the phone was completely destroyed. How hard would it be for the police to identify the owner of the sim card?

On the scene? Impossible. Back at base? Depends on what kind of equipment they have in-house, if the people who run it were on duty (if they had it) or if they had to call the carrier if they needed a warrant first (you'd be surprised how unhelpful cellphone providers are without warrants and/or subpoenas)... again, don't believe everything you see on CSI. All that crap is made up. In real life this stuff takes days or weeks (maybe months!) to happen, no seconds. You think your local police pays a bunch of lab geeks to sit around waiting to jump on every SIM card that could be a clue? Ha, not likely! If so they're not spending the public's money all that efficiently.

Maybe if there had actually been something of an investigation on the scene. But that's what this argument was about, there seems to have been none.

Why do you keep insisting they didn't do an investigation on scene? Did you see the line in the published report where it said "TOT SPD Major Crimes"... who do you think that is, Psychic Shawn Spencer? Evidence techs, detectives, etc. is my guess. I imagine they did a hell of a lot more than you'd even imagine on that scene, but they sure as hell aren't going to let everyone paw through their evidence before it even gets to court. Evidence rooms are locked down for a reason. In my department only three people can get into the evidence room... we don't even let our own officers in there! But you think all the evidence in the case should be public knowledge? Not gonna happen until it comes out in court. That's the way the system works.

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Author: Colovion Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1762201 of 1957185
Subject: Re: Black Friend Defends Zimmerman Date: 3/26/2012 3:19 PM
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When I was a kid I never took anything to the beach or park that I didn't want stolen.

I still don't carry ID when I bike to the beach or when I go walking and jogging. Cellphone, yes, with the I.C.E. entires. Wallet, heck no.


I'm assuming he took money to the store, unless he simply stole the iced tea and skittles. Money generally equals wallet, wallet generally equals ID. So, where was the ID? Appears he didn't have one. I don't think it was because the family couldn't afford one (his mom reportedly took him skiing and on other trips) so why the lack of motivation to have an ID or the lack of responsibility to carry it? Suspicious... it's the subtle things that make you go "Hmmmm."

When I was 16 I couldn't wait to get my license, you couldn't find me anywhere without it. Ditto my learner's permit at 15. It simply not being there is perplexing. Not that it would have done a ton of good anyway, he lived 250-miles from where he was shot, but he wouldn't have been a John Doe at all if he had it on him and his father wouldn't have had to identify him from a morgue picture.

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Author: alstroemeria Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1762224 of 1957185
Subject: Re: Black Friend Defends Zimmerman Date: 3/26/2012 4:06 PM
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A 17-year-old kid with NO ID on him? I've had ID on me 24/7/365 since I turned 15, in my experience the only people walking around without ID do so for a reason.

I'm 62. Since I was old enough to have ID, it is only with me when I carry my purse. I often take a walk without it, sticking my keys in a pocket or in the burbs, leaving the back door unlocked. I don;t bother about the ID--why should I? I'm not expecting to get jumped or be questioned by the police.

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Author: MsUnderstanding Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1762236 of 1957185
Subject: Re: Black Friend Defends Zimmerman Date: 3/26/2012 4:22 PM
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"In my experience the only people walking around without ID do so for a reason."



I don't carry ID either. It is usually locked in my car in the garage. When I walk anywhere I have a little cash in my pocket, my cell phone and keys.

I don't get where having no ID has become an issue that makes the victim look like they have something to hide.

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Author: sano Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1762241 of 1957185
Subject: Re: Black Friend Defends Zimmerman Date: 3/26/2012 4:30 PM
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Furtive? What was he doing that was furtive? Walking and looking around with a beverage, talking on the cellphone is furtive? Or was it getting nervous when realizinng he was being followed in the dark? Was that furtive?

Hey, if it looks suspicious it looks suspicious. Sometimes a duck is just a duck.

A duck is just a duck.

Well, it was real bad day for ducks, and a good day for duck hunters.

Man, knowing how many jerks with guns are out there sporting that mentality, I am so glad I'm not a young black kid.

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Author: sano Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1762252 of 1957185
Subject: Re: Black Friend Defends Zimmerman Date: 3/26/2012 4:43 PM
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>I'm assuming he took money to the store, unless he simply stole the iced tea and skittles.

He's a blackkid. That's prolly what happened, right ;-)

Money generally equals wallet, wallet generally equals ID. So, where was the ID? Appears he didn't have one.

Nope. 5 bucks in my hat band.

I even keep a debit card in my truck for those times when I forget or simply leave my wallet at home.

Everybody isn't so gun and ID conscious as you.

so why the lack of motivation to have an ID or the lack of responsibility to carry it? Suspicious... it's the subtle things that make you go "Hmmmm."

Welcome to Colovions U.S. of 'halt und present your papers' A.

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Author: franchot Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1762254 of 1957185
Subject: Re: Black Friend Defends Zimmerman Date: 3/26/2012 4:46 PM
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Or simply go about my business not pre-judging others

Colovion, an admirable sentiment. I think it's absolutely incumbent upon those whose jobs, even if self appointed, require them to make assessments of total strangers in stressful situations, to rigorously uphold that lofty standard. One of the things which I find troubling about the death of Trayvon Martin is the following exchange as recorded by the 911 operator:

"These a-------. They always get away," Zimmerman said on a 911 call.

I'm not going to comment on whether he did or did not accompany this with any form of the c word, but how can this be perceived as anything other than an explicit example of 'pre-judging?' Trayvon had been subsumed - from individual to generic member of a group towards whom Zimmerman felt clearly expressed hostility. Not only that, but 'these a...... ' were A) always guilty and B)never punished - they always get away. Did that influence what happened? I don't know. I understand what you have said about the provisions of SYG, that it allows person x to follow person z, initiate an exchange which escalates into confrontation, and then if person x gets smacked, he can shoot person z dead. And legitimately claim self defense. I absolutely believe that people have the right to defend themselves. But in my book, choosing to follow a total stranger, who may well not know that you are a neighborhood watch captain is a threatening act. I can see that should this ever go to trial, it will be very hard to get a conviction. One narrative will dominate. And that narrative willl be from the only person who survived this lethal encounter. Dunno. Very sad set of affairs.

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Author: Colovion Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1762263 of 1957185
Subject: Re: Black Friend Defends Zimmerman Date: 3/26/2012 5:01 PM
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I'm 62. Since I was old enough to have ID, it is only with me when I carry my purse. I often take a walk without it, sticking my keys in a pocket or in the burbs, leaving the back door unlocked. I don;t bother about the ID--why should I? I'm not expecting to get jumped or be questioned by the police.

For the same reason your mom told you to wear clean underwear... you could end up dead in a ditch and evoke a Jane Doe in the morgue for a week. With dirty underwear.

I'm serious about the ID thing and the morgue though. As this case shows it happens. I don't go outside to take out the garbage without my license on me. It's just common sense. I dunno, maybe some people were raised by wolves or something!

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Author: MsUnderstanding Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1762273 of 1957185
Subject: Re: Black Friend Defends Zimmerman Date: 3/26/2012 5:15 PM
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"I don't go outside to take out the garbage without my license on me. It's just common sense. I dunno, maybe some people were raised by wolves or something!"


I wasn't raised by wolves and I have common sense. I don't carry ID wherever I go.

Where do you live dude? Sounds sketchy that you need ID just in case you end up in a morgue.

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Author: Colovion Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1762280 of 1957185
Subject: Re: Black Friend Defends Zimmerman Date: 3/26/2012 5:59 PM
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I can see that should this ever go to trial, it will be very hard to get a conviction. One narrative will dominate. And that narrative willl be from the only person who survived this lethal encounter. Dunno. Very sad set of affairs.

One presumes this isn't the first person Zimmerman ever followed and/or confronted while on his watches. Every other time the person slunk away or otherwise didn't react strongly. Regularity breeds complacency, you become an automaton. Listen to his tone on the phone, sorta bored and frustrated. Something went very different, something Zimmerman wasn't expecting.

Now we learn that Trayvon was suspended not for truancy but for drugs. Huh. Seems Trayvon responded in a way that wasn't like him either that night. A picture is starting to form here. What makes sense? Was Zimmerman right when he suspected Trayvon was on something? It's possible. And if so the picture changes dramatically.

Zimmerman probably bit off more than he could chew, but perhaps so did Trayvon. It happens. Lots of mistakes were made, on both sides perhaps.

As I've said all along, we don't know what we don't know. We can only guess, but there are more possibilities now.

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Author: N56629 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1762282 of 1957185
Subject: Re: Black Friend Defends Zimmerman Date: 3/26/2012 6:04 PM
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"
It's getting harder to say that he is a racist.
It's getting harder to say that he started the physical contact.
It's getting harder to say that he is evil incarnate."

Most people are saying the cops are racist. There is little doubt that Martin would be locked up if the situations would have been reversed.

Physical contact does not justify the use of deadly force in this case.

As far as evil incarnate goes it sounds like something a christian would say, about Martin, thus justifying the shooting.

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Author: N56629 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1762290 of 1957185
Subject: Re: Black Friend Defends Zimmerman Date: 3/26/2012 6:22 PM
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"I've had ID on me 24/7/365 since I turned 15, in my experience the only people walking around without ID do so for a reason."

I 'forgot', is the reason that I usually cite when visiting the VA. Maybe the country you came requires that you carry an ID where ever you go. I imagine that someday it will required here too. The republicans are already working on it, especially if you don't look white enough.

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Author: Colovion Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1762298 of 1957185
Subject: Re: Black Friend Defends Zimmerman Date: 3/26/2012 6:35 PM
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Where do you live dude? Sounds sketchy that you need ID just in case you end up in a morgue.

I did live in Detroit for awhile ;-)

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Author: N56629 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1762301 of 1957185
Subject: Re: Black Friend Defends Zimmerman Date: 3/26/2012 6:38 PM
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"I don't go outside to take out the garbage without my license on me. It's just common sense."

You confuse paranoia with common sense.

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Author: alstroemeria Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1762325 of 1957185
Subject: Re: Black Friend Defends Zimmerman Date: 3/26/2012 7:39 PM
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For the same reason your mom told you to wear clean underwear... you could end up dead in a ditch and evoke a Jane Doe in the morgue for a week. With dirty underwear.

I'm serious about the ID thing and the morgue though. As this case shows it happens. I don't go outside to take out the garbage without my license on me. It's just common sense. I dunno, maybe some people were raised by wolves or something!


Just because people don't live like you/feel as paranoid as you, doesn't mean they were raised by wolves(!?). And no, Mom never told me to wear clean underwear in case I ended up in the hospital or morgue(!). She presumed I had enough sense/pride/desire for cleanliness to wear fresh undies daily...which I have for 62 years TYVM without ever being told to do so. Is this a conservative thing--you need lots of rules for living?

(Mom did tell me where to kick a guy who got fresh, but I was usually only too pleased to have a fresh date ;-)

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Author: mrshastri Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1762420 of 1957185
Subject: Re: Black Friend Defends Zimmerman Date: 3/27/2012 4:23 AM
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This reminds me of Bernhard Hugo Goetz back in the early eighties. Mr. Goetz was a victim for a long time before he finally stood up for himself.

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Author: mrshastri Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1762421 of 1957185
Subject: Re: Black Friend Defends Zimmerman Date: 3/27/2012 4:32 AM
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Col, you raised some excellent points.

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Author: mrshastri Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1762422 of 1957185
Subject: Re: Black Friend Defends Zimmerman Date: 3/27/2012 4:49 AM
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In Canada we are required to carry ID and Passport way back since 1997.

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Author: xLife Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1762451 of 1957185
Subject: Re: Black Friend Defends Zimmerman Date: 3/27/2012 9:56 AM
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Black friend defends shooter of Florida teen. “George Zimmerman is not a racist and cried for days after shooting dead a black Florida teenager," a black, longtime friend of Zimmerman said on Sunday in a sympathetic portrayal of a man maligned by critics as a trigger-happy bigot.
______

There's no reason to doubt the truth of this statement.

However, it is not relevant to whether or not Zimmerman is guilty or innocent of murder.


Or, frankly, to whether or not Zimmerman'sactions were motivated by racism.

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Author: luckyguesser One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1762575 of 1957185
Subject: Re: Black Friend Defends Zimmerman Date: 3/27/2012 12:24 PM
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mrshastri wrote:
In Canada we are required to carry ID and Passport way back since 1997.

That is not true. There is no obligation to carry ID of any kind within Canada (except if you are driving of course).

Mathew

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Author: franchot Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1762583 of 1957185
Subject: Re: Black Friend Defends Zimmerman Date: 3/27/2012 12:35 PM
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As I've said all along, we don't know what we don't know. We can only guess, but there are more possibilities now

Looks like it. If the results of the toxicology report confirm what you suggest, I think a conviction is highly unlikely. By the way, your input on this has been interesting, even if your addiction to acronyms has bordered on the arcane ;)

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Author: alstroemeria Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1762993 of 1957185
Subject: Re: Black Friend Defends Zimmerman Date: 3/28/2012 9:05 AM
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In Canada we are required to carry ID and Passport way back since 1997.

You have to carry your passport when you go out for a run? to the beach? Are many lil ole ladies mugged to steal their passport? I spent much of the summers of 2009 and 2010 in Canada and heard no such thing. While we kept our passports in the RV, we never carried them on us ever. And needed to show them only when crossing the border (one of the two crossings into Canada, they actually went through our RV looking for contraband. Kinda hung ho at that lonely border station ;-)

Color me incredulous.

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