Message Font: Serif | Sans-Serif
 
UnThreaded | Threaded | Whole Thread (14) | Ignore Thread Prev Thread | Next Thread
Author: Goofyhoofy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 445731  
Subject: Breaking: Boy Scouts consider sanity... Date: 1/28/2013 2:00 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 6
...world doesn't end.

Boy Scouts close to ending ban on gay members, leaders

The Boy Scouts of America, one of the nation’s largest private youth organizations, is actively considering an end to its decades-long policy of banning gay scouts or scout leaders, according to scouting officials and outsiders familiar with internal discussions.

If adopted by the organization’s board of directors, it would represent a profound change on an issue that has been highly controversial -- one that even went to the US Supreme Court. The new policy, now under discussion, would eliminate the ban from the national organization’s rules, leaving local sponsoring organizations free to decide for themselves whether to admit gay scouts.

snews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/28/16739587-exclusive-boy-sc...
Print the post Back To Top
Author: sofaking6 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417158 of 445731
Subject: Re: Breaking: Boy Scouts consider sanity... Date: 1/28/2013 2:01 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 7
Everyday just proves more and more that money trumps 'morality'.

WE STAND BY OUR PRINCIPLES!!! (oh what??? You mean that decreased our income?) WE STAND BY OUR NEW PRINCIPLES!!!!

6

Print the post Back To Top
Author: tedhimself Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417159 of 445731
Subject: Re: Breaking: Boy Scouts consider sanity... Date: 1/28/2013 2:07 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 6
yeah, but you still have to believe in god whether you are gay or not.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: MDGluon Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417160 of 445731
Subject: Re: Breaking: Boy Scouts consider sanity... Date: 1/28/2013 2:13 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
This has been in the background for some time; the boys themselves are ahead of curve as are usually the parents and troop leadership who have on the whole no issues.

The problem is the mid-level and upper level "professionals" who have two large stumbling blocks preventing a change in this policy....


....those blocks are the Catholic and Mormon churches which account for both a large part of the membership but more importantly a huge chunk of the cash flow.

The Catholic members contribute a lot of money and the Mormon groups directly tithe their members for a set amount per boy....alas at the higher level money has a huge influence.

This is in part being precipitated by a number of boy scout troops who are in effect defying the national corporate dictates and both allowing gay youth and gay leaders.

Will be interesting to see what the Catholic and Mormon churches (who normally sort of hate each other) do here and what pressure they apply....minor groups who can muck up the whole issue are of course the ever radical Southern Baptists....who usually do not give much yet still want to control things.

We live in "interesting times".

md

Print the post Back To Top
Author: dlbuffy Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417162 of 445731
Subject: Re: Breaking: Boy Scouts consider sanity... Date: 1/28/2013 2:52 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
yeah, but you still have to believe in god whether you are gay or not.

Was just wondering if they'll move to Atheistism next.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: benjd25 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417166 of 445731
Subject: Re: Breaking: Boy Scouts consider sanity... Date: 1/28/2013 3:14 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
That's not considering sanity. That's just considering being marginally less insane. In order to consider sanity, they would have to get rid of the theism requirement.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: MDGluon Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417174 of 445731
Subject: Re: Breaking: Boy Scouts consider sanity... Date: 1/28/2013 4:52 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
yeah, but you still have to believe in god whether you are gay or not.

Not in all nations that have scouting; some scouting organization use this one:

On my honour, I promise that I will do my best,
To render service to my country;
To help other people,
And to keep the Scout Law.

The Dutch use this one (the optional Deistic reference is up to the scout):

I promise to do my best (with the help of God) to be a good Scout,
to help everybody whenever I can
and to follow the Scout Law.
You can count on me.

The twelve points has no problem since the last one is reference which can be looked at several ways including the actual dictionary definition which says nothing about "god, hobgoblins, or things that go bump in the night"

reverent: feeling, exhibiting, or characterized by reverence; deeply respectful: a reverent greeting.

But since they are not perfect they, in some peoples minds. must all be evil.

Let not the perfect be the enemy of the better.

Changing the oath would take time and involve societal attitude changes, yet the boys and many leaders would not be the roadblock.....organized religions, the Big Wealthy Ones, are the true roadblocks.

md (Scouter of many years)

Print the post Back To Top
Author: MDGluon Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417175 of 445731
Subject: Re: Breaking: Boy Scouts consider sanity... Date: 1/28/2013 4:53 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Ooops, type that "reference" should be a reverent.

I was confusing my references.

md

Print the post Back To Top
Author: MDGluon Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417176 of 445731
Subject: Re: Breaking: Boy Scouts consider sanity... Date: 1/28/2013 4:55 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Oooops, typo....sheesh must be tired today....type should read typo,.

Must proof read, must proof read....


md

Print the post Back To Top
Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417177 of 445731
Subject: Re: Breaking: Boy Scouts consider sanity... Date: 1/28/2013 5:00 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
They need to change "reverent" to "respectful". Dictionary lists "worshipful" as a synonym, which is how I have always understood the word also.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: icono5 Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417184 of 445731
Subject: Re: Breaking: Boy Scouts consider sanity... Date: 1/28/2013 7:29 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 26
As a "once and always" Eagle Scout (1981), I've followed this broader debate with interest, especially in recent months. A major shift in national leadership in the early 90s repositioned the BSA in a sadly restrictive way. The Girl Scouts, to which my daughter proudly belongs, is far less doctrinaire and much less morally constipated.

I do applaud the recent change of heart, er, pocketbook . . . . even though I am merely a gay ally but a straight-up (pun intended) atheist. By the time I was in my late teens, I had the most trouble with two particular (of the twelve) tenets of the Scout Law: obedient and reverent. What they share is a potentially authoritarian--rather than simply respectful--bent. Respect for others should be a given; true authority must be earned, and no deity worth her salt has accomplished that yet. In response to 1poorguy's point, it's possible to argue for a non-teleological cast to "reverent," but I share your concern that the word has a heavily supernatural connotation.

For those interested in the lobbying effort, you might check out "Scouts for Equality" on Facebook or the broader web. This initiative has restored some of my secular faith in an institution that taught me a tremendous amount during my youth.

A good evening to all!

icono5

Print the post Back To Top
Author: sykesix Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417186 of 445731
Subject: Re: Breaking: Boy Scouts consider sanity... Date: 1/29/2013 1:59 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Google says: Feeling or showing deep and solemn respect: "a reverent silence".

I'm cool with that. Good luck getting teenage boys to be reverent, but I'm cool with the attempt.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417188 of 445731
Subject: Re: Breaking: Boy Scouts consider sanity... Date: 1/29/2013 9:58 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
Google isn't a dictionary. They are a search engine and software company.

Merriam Webster is a dictionary, and has a much stronger definition than simple "solemn respect".

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/reverent

: expressing or characterized by reverence : worshipful

Not trying to be a pain, but there is a lot of richness to our language. Different words express different nuances. Google's definition waters it down, IMO, so it's not much more than "respect". But we already had a word for that, specifically "respect". "Reverent" is sort of turning that up to 11.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: PinotPete Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417218 of 445731
Subject: Re: Breaking: Boy Scouts consider sanity... Date: 1/29/2013 1:49 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Merriam Webster is a dictionary, and has a much stronger definition than simple "solemn respect".

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/reverent

: expressing or characterized by reverence : worshipful


I agree that reverent has a supernatural connotation.

Remember, too, that "reverend" is a very common title used when addressing a member of the clergy, especially in Protestantism.

Pete

Print the post Back To Top
UnThreaded | Threaded | Whole Thread (14) | Ignore Thread Prev Thread | Next Thread
Advertisement