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Author: desertdaveataol Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 463329  
Subject: British banking giant HSBC will pay Date: 12/11/2012 10:21 AM
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HSBC to pay record £1.2bn for helping Mexican drug cartels launder money

The investigation has focused on transfer of billions of dollars on behalf of countries under international sanctions

U.S. Senate committee reported bank transferred $7billion (£4.3billion) in cash from Mexico to U.S in 2007 and 2008

British banking giant HSBC will pay £1.2billion ($1.9billion) to settle a money-laundering probe by federal and state authorities in the United States, a law enforcement official said on Monday.

The probe of the bank - Europe’s largest by market value - has focused on the transfer of billions of dollars on behalf of nations like Iran and North Korea, which are under international sanctions, and the transfer of money through the U.S. financial system from Mexican drug cartels.

According to the official, HSBC will pay £777million ($1.25billion) in forfeiture and pay £407million ($655million) in civil penalties.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2246215/HSBC-pay-1-2...
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Author: jgc123 Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 411217 of 463329
Subject: Re: British banking giant HSBC will pay Date: 12/13/2012 2:40 PM
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I have followed the HSBC stories. Allegedly they could prove that they were laundering drug money and were quoted as saying that they decided not to indict anybody on criminal charges. They also decided on a civil fine that would not destroy the bank and harm thousands of "innocent" employees.

Apparently a huge bank can launder billions of dollars of drug money, face no criminal prosecution and a fine that is "small enough not to shut down the business."

If I, an attorney in a two man firm broke a $15,000 cash fee into two fees of less than $10,000 each in order to evade the federal reporting requirements, I would be indicted on felony charges, my attorney would be negotiating the number of years that I would serve, and there would be no concern about shutting down my firm and "hurting innocent employees."

On the heels of the banking crash, bailout, robosigning scandals, tmf global scandal and then this, one could get cynical after a while if one were so inclined.

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Author: steve203 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 411221 of 463329
Subject: Re: British banking giant HSBC will pay Date: 12/13/2012 2:52 PM
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On the heels of the banking crash, bailout, robosigning scandals, tmf global scandal and then this, one could get cynical after a while if one were so inclined.

Yup. Bernie Ebbers and Jeff Skilling are probably beside themselves. If only they could have kept their pyramid frauds going a few more years, they could have gotten off scott free too. "oh nooooo, you can't toss me in the jug. all these po' single moms that work for Enron would be out of work"

Steve

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Author: SuisseBear Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 411237 of 463329
Subject: Re: British banking giant HSBC will pay Date: 12/13/2012 5:25 PM
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Apparently a huge bank can launder billions of dollars of drug money, face no criminal prosecution and a fine that is "small enough not to shut down the business."


Of course, if you happen to be a US bank doing the same thing, you get off even lighter:


Criminal proceedings were brought against Wachovia, though not against any individual, but the case never came to court. In March 2010, Wachovia settled the biggest action brought under the US bank secrecy act, through the US district court in Miami. Now that the year's "deferred prosecution" has expired, the bank is in effect in the clear. It paid federal authorities $110m in forfeiture, for allowing transactions later proved to be connected to drug smuggling, and incurred a $50m fine for failing to monitor cash used to ship 22 tons of cocaine.

More shocking, and more important, the bank was sanctioned for failing to apply the proper anti-laundering strictures to the transfer of $378.4bn – a sum equivalent to one-third of Mexico's gross national product – into dollar accounts from so-called casas de cambio (CDCs) in Mexico, currency exchange houses with which the bank did business.

"Wachovia's blatant disregard for our banking laws gave international cocaine cartels a virtual carte blanche to finance their operations," said Jeffrey Sloman, the federal prosecutor. Yet the total fine was less than 2% of the bank's $12.3bn profit for 2009. ...


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/03/us-bank-mexico-d...

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Author: sykesix Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 411265 of 463329
Subject: Re: British banking giant HSBC will pay Date: 12/14/2012 1:29 AM
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Apparently a huge bank can launder billions of dollars of drug money, face no criminal prosecution and a fine that is "small enough not to shut down the business."

If I, an attorney in a two man firm broke a $15,000 cash fee into two fees of less than $10,000 each in order to evade the federal reporting requirements, I would be indicted on felony charges, my attorney would be negotiating the number of years that I would serve, and there would be no concern about shutting down my firm and "hurting innocent employees."


There have been lots of banks go out of business in recent years. The world didn't end.

My solution would be this: They are suspected of laundering $7 billion in drug money. So fine them $14 billion and let them fight in court.

I guarantee that's a better deal than any of us proles would get if we got caught money laundering drug money.

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Author: steve203 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 411266 of 463329
Subject: Re: British banking giant HSBC will pay Date: 12/14/2012 1:43 AM
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My solution would be this: They are suspected of laundering $7 billion in drug money. So fine them $14 billion and let them fight in court.

That's no solution. The company is insolvent, the sharehoulders are wiped out, but the honchos, their tens of millions per year of compensation safely in pocket, skate.

Jeffrey Keith "Jeff" Skilling (born November 25, 1953) is the former president of Enron Corporation, headquartered in Houston, Texas. During 2006 he was convicted of multiple federal felony charges relating to Enron's financial collapse, and is currently serving a 24-year, four-month prison sentence at the Federal Correctional Institution in Englewood, Colorado

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Skilling

Bernard John "Bernie" Ebbers (born August 27, 1941) is a Canadian-born businessman. He co-founded the telecommunications company WorldCom and is a former chief executive officer of that company.

In 2005, he was convicted of fraud and conspiracy as a result of WorldCom's false financial reporting, and subsequent loss of US$100-billion to investors. The WorldCom scandal was, until the Madoff schemes came to light in 2008, the largest accounting scandal in United States history. He is currently serving a 25-year prison term at Oakdale Federal Correctional Complex in Louisiana.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Ebbers

If the honchos of Bank of America, Wachovia, Citi WaMu and Countrywide were in the jug for 20 years, the rest of the gang might get religion about performing their jobs in a responsible manner.

Instead, we see now far the "rule of law" has fallen in the US.

Steve

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Author: FreethinkerKW Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 411267 of 463329
Subject: Re: British banking giant HSBC will pay Date: 12/14/2012 2:04 AM
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I see it your way, Steve:

http://boards.fool.com/hsbc-19-billion-fine-for-money-launde...

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Author: FreethinkerKW Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 411268 of 463329
Subject: Re: British banking giant HSBC will pay Date: 12/14/2012 2:16 AM
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I also like the tongue and cheek sentence which Bill Maher once said he'd give Banksters so they'd never give us another 2008:

1. You roll a flatbed truck out to the 50 yard line during Super Bowl half-time. On the the flatbed are three easy chairs.

2. You send rolls of plastic tarps over ever lines of seated fans, as though the crowd was at a Gallagher show.

3. You bring out say Lloyd Blankfien, Anthony Mozilo and Richard Fuld, hand cuffed, shackled feet. Drop one each into each chair.

4. And then the winning ticket out of the crowd raffle beforehand gets to turn the key on the detonator charger which explodes the two kilos of C4 under each chair.

We do that for a half-time show and I'll bet Moral Hazard and organized crime on Wall Street recedes faster than shore water before a tsunami.

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Author: jaagu Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 411271 of 463329
Subject: Re: British banking giant HSBC will pay Date: 12/14/2012 4:04 AM
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Sen. Harry Reid’s office just confirmed Elizabeth Warren's position on the Senate Banking Committee starting in January. Elizabeth Warren said following:

"I appreciate the faith that Leader Reid has put in me to take this assignment, and I am looking so forward to playing a role in Congressional oversight over big banks on Wall Street and the banking agencies in Washington. Middle class families need more watchdogs in Washington that will try to hold the big guys accountable and to stop bad deals for the American people. I’m ready to help."

"Of course, fighting for the middle class means more than talk or strongly worded emails. It means across-the-board, consistent accountability for anyone who breaks the law — no matter where they work or who their friends are. And that’s what we’re going to work hard to accomplish."

"I’ve taken on Wall Street banks and other powerful interests for years, and, with your help, I’ll continue to do so for many years to come."

Maybe HSBC and others banks will start to watch what they are doing and look over their backs for Elizabeth.

jaagu

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Author: OrmontUS Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 411278 of 463329
Subject: Re: British banking giant HSBC will pay Date: 12/14/2012 9:04 AM
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Just noting that stockholders are the ones paying the fines, but neither the law, nor the stockholders (or their "representatives" the Board of Directors) holds individuals responsible.

Jeff

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Author: notehound Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 411285 of 463329
Subject: Re: British banking giant HSBC will pay Date: 12/14/2012 9:54 AM
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...stockholders are the ones paying the fines, but neither the law, nor the stockholders (or their "representatives" the Board of Directors) holds individuals responsible.

Most executives' and board members' contracts have an "exception" to corporate defense/indemnification clauses that relieve the corporation from liability for criminal acts of the officer/director.

Perhaps it's time for corporations stuck paying fines for crimes committed by their executives and directors to file indemnification suits against the officers/directors who committed the crimes that cost the corporation cash.

Shareholders could push for the corporation to sue the officers and directors who committed the crimes to recover for the cost of the fines.

That would cut down on malfeasance pretty quickly.

:-o

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Author: EddieLuck Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 411286 of 463329
Subject: Re: British banking giant HSBC will pay Date: 12/14/2012 10:08 AM
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<<Jeffrey Keith "Jeff" Skilling (born November 25, 1953) is the former president of Enron Corporation, headquartered in Houston, Texas. During 2006 he was convicted of multiple federal felony charges relating to Enron's financial collapse, and is currently serving a 24-year, four-month prison sentence at the Federal Correctional Institution in Englewood, Colorado>>

The banks are now allowed to do some of what the Enron guys went to jail for: hidden losses is off-balance-sheet SIVs. It's legal now. But then of course, they are banks, not evil oil companies.

Ed.

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Author: steve203 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 411291 of 463329
Subject: Re: British banking giant HSBC will pay Date: 12/14/2012 10:58 AM
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Just noting that stockholders are the ones paying the fines, but neither the law, nor the stockholders (or their "representatives" the Board of Directors) holds individuals responsible.

Funny, isn't it, how the honchos are always eager to clam credit when their bets pay off, and they demand compensation of tens of millions a year. But when something blows up, it's always a "rogue" underling, or, as we see at HSBC, no one at all.

One of the reforms post Enron/Worldcom was for the CEOs to personally sign off on the financial reports and take responsibility for them. How is that working out?

Steve

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