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Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 76078  
Subject: Brokers Fight For Right to Screw Customers Date: 6/13/2014 4:07 PM
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http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/13/your-money/rule-to-make-br...

David O’Brien, a certified financial planner, has tried to repair the retirement portfolios of several victims over the years. There was the high school science teacher who didn’t realize she had been sold a variable annuity, where layers of incomprehensible fees devoured nearly 2.5 percent of her retirement savings each year. Then there was the woman fighting cancer, who was also sold a high-cost annuity, but whose underlying investments were tied up in a money-market type fund — one that cost 1.5 percent annually.

Brokers are not necessarily required to act in their customers’ best interest, even if they are advising on their retirement money. While that would seem to be a basic consumer protection, in Washington and on Wall Street it has proved to be wildly contentious.

</snip>


intercst
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Author: pauleckler Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 75208 of 76078
Subject: Re: Brokers Fight For Right to Screw Customers Date: 6/13/2014 10:40 PM
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Most who sell financial products, do so to make a living. A law that required them to sell the most cost effective product to every client would be devastating. They reserve the right to extract extra income from those who can afford it.

A key question might be where does this financial salesman invest his own funds. Probably not in the most costly vehicle he can find.

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Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 75209 of 76078
Subject: Re: Brokers Fight For Right to Screw Customers Date: 6/13/2014 11:26 PM
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pauleckler writes,

Most who sell financial products, do so to make a living. A law that required them to sell the most cost effective product to every client would be devastating. They reserve the right to extract extra income from those who can afford it.

</snip>


I see no evidence that the sale of financial products with excessive fees is limited to those who can afford it.

How many workers with median incomes have seen their IRA/401ks pummeled by fees?

intercst

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Author: dbphd Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 75210 of 76078
Subject: Re: Brokers Fight For Right to Screw Customers Date: 6/14/2014 12:26 PM
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Most who steal do so to make a living. They reserve the right to extract extra income from those who can afford it. Seems to make as much sense if you go down that path of reasoning.

db

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Author: pauleckler Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 75211 of 76078
Subject: Re: Brokers Fight For Right to Screw Customers Date: 6/14/2014 5:17 PM
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I'll grant you that there are those out there whose fees are well beyond the reasonable and do take advantage of the unwary. Yes, people need to watch out.

But I suspect the steady money on Wall Street comes from those who arrange to collect a few pennies at a time from everything owned by every client. They think those charges are modest, not greedy, and they hope they will go unnoticed.

This is the internet security issues all over again. The ones who get caught may seem formidable but really the ones to be most concerned about are the ones that operate undetected in silence.

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Author: inparadise Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 75212 of 76078
Subject: Re: Brokers Fight For Right to Screw Customers Date: 6/14/2014 5:34 PM
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Maybe I am imposing my dad's experience here, but this sounds more like an insurance broker than someone on wall street. And yes, I would like to have the salesman who took advantage of my dad drawn and quartered.

Dad would talk about "his friends," the 30 something year old and his wife that would go out to dinner with this charming elderly couple, with Mom post stroke well beyond the ability to conduct scintillating conversation. Dad himself was in his multi-month manic phase which occurred after a 10 hour operation. Like Opus late at night, there was no commercial that was not worth his picking up the phone and buying times six for all us kids, a house, a motor home, and a type of annuity that he finally abandoned without any rebate when the market went south and he was expected to put more money in. This for a guy in his late 70's, who had just had surgery for esophageal cancer? Sure, one needs to make a living, but lets not do so by taking advantage of incompetents.

Interestingly enough, the annuity was the only thing we could not get him out of when his mania finally crashed to depression and he allowed us to rescue him.

We are all so confident now that we will be different in old age, that we shall surely avoid those who prey on the elderly, but I am firmly convinced that for most of us we will become our own worst enemy as we age, and would love to know how I can protect myself from myself.

IP

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Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 75213 of 76078
Subject: Re: Brokers Fight For Right to Screw Customers Date: 6/14/2014 7:03 PM
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pauleckler analyzes,

But I suspect the steady money on Wall Street comes from those who arrange to collect a few pennies at a time from everything owned by every client. They think those charges are modest, not greedy, and they hope they will go unnoticed.

</snip>


Wall Street's business model is based on extracting 2% per year in fees, commissions, and costs from the average client -- each and every year.

Over a 60-year investing horizon (i.e., 30 years saving for retirement, 30 years of spending in retirement) you'd have to save 60% more money for retirement to make up for the amount of wealth you lost to excess fees.

http://retireearlyhomepage.com/vg_tsp.html

intercst

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Author: inparadise Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 75214 of 76078
Subject: Re: Brokers Fight For Right to Screw Customers Date: 6/14/2014 7:11 PM
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Over a 60-year investing horizon (i.e., 30 years saving for retirement, 30 years of spending in retirement) you'd have to save 60% more money for retirement to make up for the amount of wealth you lost to excess fees.

Meh. On an after fee basis, our FA gets us better returns than plunking our funds into the comparable Vanguard index funds and managing it ourselves. I've looked at it hard, and maybe when we finally do retire and have time to deal with this ourselves we'll get back into self-management, (though sadly probably not back to mechanical investing, the volatility of which DH can't stomach,) but given the after fee returns on our principal, it is hard to get motivated to take more work on.

IP

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Author: dbphd Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 75215 of 76078
Subject: Re: Brokers Fight For Right to Screw Customers Date: 6/14/2014 7:16 PM
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"would love to know how I can protect myself from myself"

By keeping yourself physically and mentally healthy. I suspect you already know what you're doing financially. I think lack of financial smarts is a more likely a problem than aging. After my dad died I took over the investments in their trust. A broker had put them in front-loaded investments, so he had made his money leaving them with a bunch of unsuitable holdings with high management fees. Vanguard was helpful in moving everything to a no-load low-fee three fund portfolio that has performed well during the 12 intervening years. My mother, 101, lets me manage the trust and is pleased with the results, but she's still watchful. I'm only 78.

db

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Author: Rayvt Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 75216 of 76078
Subject: Re: Brokers Fight For Right to Screw Customers Date: 6/14/2014 7:20 PM
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our FA gets us better returns than plunking our funds into the comparable Vanguard index funds

One thing you should consider is continuity. What happens if your FA gets run over by a truck? Or -- which happened to me with our tax accountant -- come down with cancer and die in six months.

If he's a one-person shop, you may be suddenly throw on your own.

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Author: inparadise Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 75217 of 76078
Subject: Re: Brokers Fight For Right to Screw Customers Date: 6/14/2014 7:34 PM
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By keeping yourself physically and mentally healthy. I suspect you already know what you're doing financially.

So did Dad. He did well enough investing that even on teachers' salaries, when that didn't amount to much with Mom retiring with a double master degrees making only $13K/year, and having 6 kids, still managed to retire at 58. But as the stresses mounted after Mom's stroke in her mid 70's, and Dad dealing with yet another round of cancer, he lost the ability to make good decisions, yet had the certainty that he was on top of the world. The man was bonkers, but we could not get the law to allow us to protect him, even though we would be subject to bailing him out from his current idiocy due to filial responsibility laws. So we need to protect ourselves.

There is so much I don't want to put my kids through. Been there, done that, don't want to pass on that Tshirt.

IP

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Author: inparadise Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 75218 of 76078
Subject: Re: Brokers Fight For Right to Screw Customers Date: 6/14/2014 7:36 PM
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If he's a one-person shop, you may be suddenly throw on your own.

He has a partner and an institution behind him. If I have to take things back over, it's not a problem. I never really let things drop, and am constantly looking at options. It's actually kind of fun for me.

IP

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Author: reallyalldone Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 75219 of 76078
Subject: Re: Brokers Fight For Right to Screw Customers Date: 6/15/2014 9:07 AM
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We are all so confident now that we will be different in old age, that we shall surely avoid those who prey on the elderly, but I am firmly convinced that for most of us we will become our own worst enemy as we age, and would love to know how I can protect myself from myself.

I'm not sure who the "we" is but I'm not part of it. My strategy was to teach my children well and to give professionals I work with permission to contact my son should they feel I am making questionable decisions. The same son also has a general POA and my health care POA and we've discussed what each of us wants(because I am his health care person as well.)

I went against conventional advice to move to a house with stairs and otherwise work to keep my health and fitness but things can and do happen.

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Author: inparadise Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 75220 of 76078
Subject: Re: Brokers Fight For Right to Screw Customers Date: 6/15/2014 10:22 AM
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My strategy was to teach my children well and to give professionals I work with permission to contact my son should they feel I am making questionable decisions. The same son also has a general POA and my health care POA and we've discussed what each of us wants(because I am his health care person as well.)

Nice start, but not at all impeachable. Sis and I had POA for our folks as well, which Dad revoked in a moment of paranoia, (a not uncommon symptom of Alzheimers as well.) When we approached Dad's health care provider with our concerns about Dad's mania, (Sis had health care POA,) he told us that was sometimes a side effect of being under anesthesia for long periods of time. He admitted that Dad would no doubt be making some unhinged decisions in the coming months, (boy I could fill many posts with his actions following surgery,) but was in no way going to qualify as legally incompetent. We could not protect him from himself. We finally had to protect Mom from Dad by getting her declared incompetent and gong to court for custody of Mom, which Sis was given. So the court recognized Dad was not capable of caring for Mom, his wife of 60 years, but because he knew what year it was and who was POTUS, he was not declared incompetent.

Yes, I know this is yet another slippery slope, but believe me when I say that no matter how rational you think you are now, there is no guarantee of how you will behave later as the physical and emotional stresses of aging take over. In addition some states with their filial responsibility laws will first prevent you from keeping your parents from putting their finances in jeopardy, then give you the bill for their care after they have made themselves insolvent.

I don't have answers...only a need for them.

IP

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Author: ChiliChild Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 75221 of 76078
Subject: Re: Brokers Fight For Right to Screw Customers Date: 6/15/2014 11:10 AM
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When we approached Dad's health care provider with our concerns about Dad's mania, (Sis had health care POA,) he told us that was sometimes a side effect of being under anesthesia for long periods of time.

Was not aware of this possibility. Could have been a part of the problem.

Yes, I know this is yet another slippery slope, but believe me when I say that no matter how rational you think you are now, there is no guarantee of how you will behave later as the physical and emotional stresses of aging take over. In addition some states with their filial responsibility laws will first prevent you from keeping your parents from putting their finances in jeopardy, then give you the bill for their care after they have made themselves insolvent.


ChiliSpouse's dad did not have diagnosed dementia, but he came very close to putting them in the poor house with awful financial decisions. I don't want to say his death was a good thing at all but, had he not died when he did, the financial disaster would have just escalated, helped by a questionable FA. His dad was so controlling and paranoid that CS's mom didn't even have the ATM code and, until CS instructed her to write herself a check at the bank, had no access to cash for weeks at a time when he was hospitalized repeatedly.

CS's mom, at 86, was fortunate to have a well-educated son with great financial acumen. He handled and continues to handle everything for her and, in 2 1/2 years, has managed to get her finances in decent shape. She is no longer (justifiably) terrified of running out of money.

After my grandfather died, my grandmother put everything into a trust at the local bank. I have to hand it to them. She was in an expensive nursing home for more than 5 years and died with a much larger estate than was there when my grandfather died 15 years before.

Aging causes all kinds of stress, and it's the fortunate elder who is mentally alert enough to be able to determine who is trustworthy to take care of them and their finances. I know that as I age, I worry about falling victim to the heartless greed of others.

Chili

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Author: pauleckler Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 75222 of 76078
Subject: Re: Brokers Fight For Right to Screw Customers Date: 6/15/2014 12:56 PM
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I went against conventional advice to move to a house with stairs and otherwise work to keep my health and fitness but things can and do happen.

Ditto. I moved here at age 61 knowing that I would not be able to keep this place up forever. I wanted a lawn and garden to help keep me active. The work gets more difficult, but I pace myself. An hour or two at a time when the weather is nice.

It's better than spending all day sitting in a recliner somewhere.

I hope to live here until age 85, but one never knows. Things can change quickly. But I say enjoy it while you can. Adapt when you need to. But do have a plan.

As to finances, that could include fixed annuities sometime in the future when doing my own investing is no longer fun. Yes, I have a will and a POA in good hands.

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Author: BruceCM Big red star, 1000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 75223 of 76078
Subject: Re: Brokers Fight For Right to Screw Customers Date: 6/15/2014 7:29 PM
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I'm sure there are series 7 securities dealers out there who do indeed make only recommendations to their 'clients' that are first and foremost in the client's best interest....I'm just sure of it!

But those who percolate up through the herds of stock brokers and become "TOP PRODUCERS" (that is an industry term), most likely got to that point by following the motto of William 'Canada Bill' Jones, who infamously said...

..."It is immoral to let a sucker keep his money"

BruceM

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Author: FCorelli Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 75224 of 76078
Subject: Re: Brokers Fight For Right to Screw Customers Date: 6/15/2014 8:40 PM
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..."It is immoral to let a sucker keep his money"

BruceM



It's the free market!

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Author: reallyalldone Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 75225 of 76078
Subject: Re: Brokers Fight For Right to Screw Customers Date: 6/16/2014 10:06 AM
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Yes, I know this is yet another slippery slope, but believe me when I say that no matter how rational you think you are now, there is no guarantee of how you will behave later as the physical and emotional stresses of aging take over.

I was the youngest of four and my father died when I was 25(my sister followed when I was 27). I somehow became responsible for my mother after my father's death and stayed that way until her death in my early 50s(a couple of years before my husband became ill and died).

Because all of this(and almost losing my daughter a years or so after my husband), I have gone with doing the best I can do and just living my life to the fullest. I know nothing is guaranteed. I'm not going to spend time in machinations over laws that could change and if I die in cardboard box on the street - oh well.

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Author: inparadise Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 75226 of 76078
Subject: Re: Brokers Fight For Right to Screw Customers Date: 6/16/2014 11:24 AM
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Because all of this(and almost losing my daughter a years or so after my husband), I have gone with doing the best I can do and just living my life to the fullest. I know nothing is guaranteed. I'm not going to spend time in machinations over laws that could change and if I die in cardboard box on the street - oh well.

This latest post is a far cry from the last one from you where you typed this:

Me: We are all so confident now that we will be different in old age, that we shall surely avoid those who prey on the elderly, but I am firmly convinced that for most of us we will become our own worst enemy as we age, and would love to know how I can protect myself from myself.

RAD: I'm not sure who the "we" is but I'm not part of it. My strategy was to teach my children well and to give professionals I work with permission to contact my son should they feel I am making questionable decisions. The same son also has a general POA and my health care POA and we've discussed what each of us wants(because I am his health care person as well.)

I am confused between your Que Sera Sera reply and your Be Proactive! reply. If you don't want to participate in this conversation, it's easy to avoid, as well as certainly providing you with more time to go "live your life to the fullest," no doubt a much superior strategy than those of us who choose to spend the time analyzing the problem for possible solutions. My experience dealing with this problem was crappy enough that I am looking for a way to protect my kids from going through the same, regardless of whether you consider it wasting my time. There are some "family traditions" I have no desire to pass down to the next generation, which is exactly what either of your approaches will do, unless of course both your kids and the gov't will be happy to let you die on the streets, or you are certain that you will be content to do so and will not make a fuss.

Some people do Sudoku and crosswords to keep their brain exercised. I look for solutions to problems. I was born a planner and will die a planner. I consider that a better use of my time than spending it finding a nice soft spot in the sand to bury my head. YMMV.

IP

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Author: dbphd Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 75227 of 76078
Subject: Re: Brokers Fight For Right to Screw Customers Date: 6/16/2014 12:55 PM
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IP, it seems to me you might need an attorney who specializes in estate planning who can put together a trust the defines a path for distribution of assets and PoAs for health and financial matters.

The are plenty of studies that suggest a simple portfolio of no-load low-fee index funds is hard to beat, so investment management can and probably should be kept be simple. I'd avoid expensive professional financial management that will need to complicate things to justify their cost.

If you think there is a family proclivity to irrational older age, why not limit it's potential effects early on. Unless there is a genetic defect, I suspect such a proclivity is a behavioral habit, examples of which are passed along. Talk with a physician about it.

db

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Author: MetalDecathlete Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 75228 of 76078
Subject: Re: Brokers Fight For Right to Screw Customers Date: 6/16/2014 3:03 PM
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ip
The man was bonkers, but we could not get the law to allow us to protect him, even though we would be subject to bailing him out from his current idiocy due to filial responsibility laws. So we need to protect ourselves.

Filial responsibility laws? I'll have to look that up. My FIL is a complete idiot when it comes to $. He was an idiot when he was young and it keeps getting worse. He is a good man, made a good income all his life, works hard, provides for his family and is loved by everyone. But any time he has 2 nickels to rub together, he's off to Wal-Mart and fills up his cart with crap that breaks in 6 months. He is a hoarder. Over his life, he bought 5 different time-shares. Every time we go to his house, there is some new gadget he got talked into buying from some phone salesman or something he saw on late night tv.

The good thing is he was a has 3 income streams where he cannot touch the principle: military pension, corporate pension and SS. Plus he gets all his medical care paid for as a vet.

Yet he and MIL declared bankruptcy a few years ago and stiffed his creditors of over 90k. He's already started racking up credit again. I can't believe he can still borrow money. I've warned my wife that we are not picking up the tab (like we have in the past at times) for any more of his financial gaffs. Been there, done that, got the T-Shirt. He's 82 now and keeps doing stupid things like giving money to loser grandkids that give him some bs sob story and then turn and around and use the $ for drugs, gambling or some entertainment gadget.

DW and I will need to protect ourselves from them as they get older. MIL is about gone physically and is fading mentally as well. Financially, she was the smart one and the only person (he will not listen to his kids) keeping him from ruining them. When she is gone, he's going to go crazy with whatever $ he has and probably lose his house as a result.

Metal

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Author: MetalDecathlete Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 75229 of 76078
Subject: Re: Brokers Fight For Right to Screw Customers Date: 6/16/2014 3:13 PM
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ip
Yes, I know this is yet another slippery slope, but believe me when I say that no matter how rational you think you are now, there is no guarantee of how you will behave later as the physical and emotional stresses of aging take over. In addition some states with their filial responsibility laws will first prevent you from keeping your parents from putting their finances in jeopardy, then give you the bill for their care after they have made themselves insolvent.

Man, talk about total bs. I see I've got work and research to do. Just reading this makes me 'fighting' mad. I was abused by my dad as a kid. No frakking way in hell will I let my parents, my in-laws or anybody else take advantage of us now. Not going to happen. Everything I have was created by working long hard hours, a disciplined investing approach and both DW and I's frugality and sacrifice.

Metal

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Author: reallyalldone Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 75230 of 76078
Subject: Re: Brokers Fight For Right to Screw Customers Date: 6/16/2014 3:50 PM
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I am confused between your Que Sera Sera reply and your Be Proactive! reply.

Really ? Simple - Get your ducks in a row and then go play.

I consider that a better use of my time than spending it finding a nice soft spot in the sand to bury my head.

ROFLMAO

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Author: inparadise Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 75231 of 76078
Subject: Re: Brokers Fight For Right to Screw Customers Date: 6/16/2014 4:47 PM
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He was an idiot when he was young and it keeps getting worse.

Heh. At least you knew what you were getting into. ;-)

Dad's change in mental state happened in conjunction with a 10 hour surgery. Previous to this he was more than on the ball, retiring at 58 even with a lower paying career and having 6 kids to suck the bank empty. This change in mental state is a common place enough side effect, but sure wasn't disclosed to us or others who have had similar experiences with loved ones. The older you are, the longer the operation, the more you are at risk. My neighbor's husband had a similar post surgical experience, though he was half Dad's age and it lasted only about a week.

http://www.anesthesiaweb.org/dementia.php

This case study sounds like Dad, except his reaction lasted for many months and was certainly not short lived. Particularly chilling is how this guy too felt his recovery was a miracle. Dad felt God had chosen him and now he must go out and do great things. Trying to talk him down just made him paranoid and belligerent. : https://ww1.cpa-apc.org/Publications/Archives/CJP/2004/octob...

Financially, she was the smart one and the only person (he will not listen to his kids) keeping him from ruining them. When she is gone, he's going to go crazy with whatever $ he has and probably lose his house as a result.

Can MIL set up an irrevocable trust to take care of his needs? I suspect that is the sort of thing I will need to look into. Fortunately, time and health are on my side, but it's never too early to start exploring options.

IP

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Author: inparadise Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 75232 of 76078
Subject: Re: Brokers Fight For Right to Screw Customers Date: 6/16/2014 4:53 PM
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No frakking way in hell will I let my parents, my in-laws or anybody else take advantage of us now.

It is the state that would do it, and not all state laws are created equal. Here is an article that should answer many of your questions, or at least give you a starting base for research: http://www.forbes.com/sites/northwesternmutual/2014/02/03/wh...

IP

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Author: inparadise Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 75233 of 76078
Subject: Re: Brokers Fight For Right to Screw Customers Date: 6/16/2014 5:04 PM
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- Get your ducks in a row and then go play.

And as I have stated, unless what you did to "get your ducks in a row" are irrevocable by the elderly person in question, you have not solved the problem anywhere other than in your imagination. We had those very same ducks lined up, and with a stroke of Dad's pen they were gone.

My point is not to argue with you since we have a track record of not doing that effectively. Rather it is to keep others from believing that simply having medical and legal POAs, talking with your kids about how things should take place and setting up permission for professionals to contact your kid is not enough. All that gives you is a false sense of security that you have handled things.

IP
not feeling the need to discuss this further with you unless you have something new to bring to the table

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Author: ResN Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 75234 of 76078
Subject: Re: Brokers Fight For Right to Screw Customers Date: 6/17/2014 8:55 AM
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I just keep wondering when the plaintiff attorneys of the US will decide to target and go after financial advisors, annuity salesmen, insurance shills, and the rest of the thieves and crooks who are screwing their clients on a daily basis, both those in employer-based retirement funds and those in taxable portfolios. This has been going on forever, forever! Richer folks can afford to throw a ton of money into the trash, but most normal folks can't afford to have their savings and investments systematically looted by the very people who are advising them about their investments. I just fail to understand how these thieves avoid being held accountable for their misrepresentations, outright fraud, deception, and unfair business practices. Just saying.

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Author: MetalDecathlete Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 75235 of 76078
Subject: Re: Brokers Fight For Right to Screw Customers Date: 6/17/2014 10:13 AM
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It is the state that would do it, and not all state laws are created equal. Here is an article that should answer many of your questions, or at least give you a starting base for research: http://www.forbes.com/sites/northwesternmutual/2014/02/03/wh......

IP


I get the part about going after children when fraud is involved. But I'm stunned that they can if no wrong doing is proved. And in your case of the parent making foolish decisions and then you having filial responsibility for them in spite of your efforts to prevent your father from making those decisions, certainly smack of unfairness.

I most certainly see the need to protect you and your family, especially now that you are nearing retirement.

Metal

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Author: inparadise Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 75238 of 76078
Subject: Re: Brokers Fight For Right to Screw Customers Date: 6/17/2014 11:24 AM
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And in your case of the parent making foolish decisions and then you having filial responsibility for them in spite of your efforts to prevent your father from making those decisions, certainly smack of unfairness.

Similar to the IRS, I am not under the illusion that the legal system is "fair," or even logical The judges have to uphold the law whether they agree with it or not. This makes it all the more important to be aware of the laws and how they will impact you.

You can bet that these cases that have gone down in favor of the nursing homes are going to cause an increase in new cases...perhaps even by states looking for the child to pay their parents' bills rather than Medicaid.

I most certainly see the need to protect you and your family, especially now that you are nearing retirement.

Mostly, we need to protect our kids from our future older selves. 3 of 4 of our parents have already passed on, with the one remaining living with SIL and not knowing how to make financial decisions even if she wanted to.

IP

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