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CARACAS (Reuters) - Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has died after a two-year battle with cancer, ending the socialist leader's 14-year rule of the South American country, Vice President Nicolas Maduro said in a televised speech on Tuesday.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/venezuela-says-chavezs-breathing-pr...

Steve
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Well to begin with the US gets about a million barrels of oil a day from Venezuela. So y'all have been funding him for 15 years while he kicked dirt in your faces? Ironically that oil went to the very refineries that were supposed to have it replaced with oil sands oil via the Keystone pipeline from Alberta. You know the pipeline that has been waiting for approval for 4.5 years?

http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_...

Chavez was also very generous with cheap and even free oil to Cuba... I'm sure the Cubans are probably somewhat concerned at the moment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuba%E2%80%93Venezuela_relation...

Cuba–Venezuela relations

Relations between Cuba and Venezuela have significantly improved during the Presidency of Hugo Chávez. Chávez has formed a major alliance with Cuban president Fidel Castro and significant trade relationship with Cuba since his election in 1999....

...

The bilateral relation includes development aid, joint business ventures, large financial transactions, exchange of energy resources and information technology, and cooperation in the fields of intelligence service and military. A characteristic of Cuba-Venezuela ties is that both nations are exchanging assets among each other which are inexpensive for the sending country but of high significance for the receiving country.[6]



China has been investing heavily in Venezuela as well as importing significant amounts of oil from them.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93Venezuela_relatio...

My own experience with a short four day visit there some years back (believe it or not we were showing off our new (at the time) 280 class destroyers in hopes of selling them some ****) was that Venezuela as two separate populations with the mostly Spanish living in the coastal areas while the indigenous people lived inland. The police in the coastal are were mostly indigenous while we heard the opposite was true inland. Apparently they did not trust (actually feared) each other and there were a few episodes that supported this perception.

I must confess it was somewhat shocking to see a MG bunker build into the wall ceiling joint inside a stone bank building with the barrel of a .50 MG sticking out of the slit. I can only imagine what would have happened to the lines of people waiting for their turn at the teller's window if someone had tried to hold the place up and someone else squeezed the trigger on the 50 inside a stone building. }};-()

Overall it was a fun trip with some hilarious stories.

Any <DITCHER, QUICK & HYDE
DIVORCE LAWYERS> mouse


**** - They thought the 280s were too big for them but liked our older 205/265 class that we hadn't built in many a year at the time.
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So y'all have been funding him for 15 years while he kicked dirt in your faces?

The US has kicked plenty of dirt in his face, and tried to unhorse him...after all, he committed the unpardonable sin of costing two US oil companies a few bux.

Any <DITCHER, QUICK & HYDE
DIVORCE LAWYERS> mouse


heh...check out this firm

http://www.dewey-cheatham-howe.com/

Steve
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The US has kicked plenty of dirt in his face, and tried to unhorse him...after all, he committed the unpardonable sin of costing two US oil companies a few bux.

Steve

I wonder what the odds are that the same or different US oil companies will try to get back in with the successor? In truth the Chinese are really "working it" on the leadership and it would be hard for the US companies to overcome a long history of US oil companies trying to run the countries they are working in.

Meanwhile as I mentioned last night, Cuba is pondering it's options. They are in better shape now than they were after the Russians left but still don't mind receiving the assistance.


Any <this popular advertising spot available for rent, lease or sale> mouse

http://news.yahoo.com/stunned-cuba-ponders-future-without-ch...

Stunned Cuba ponders future without Chavez

By Marc Frank | Reuters – 8 hrs ago.

HAVANA (Reuters) - A mix of sorrow, self-interest and dread took hold of Cuba Tuesday evening as word spread like wildfire that Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, who had done so much for the country, was dead.

...

ECONOMIC DEPENDENCE

Most Cuban economists point out that the economy has become more diversified over the last 20 years with the development of tourism, pharmaceuticals and increased oil and nickel production. But they say it remains far too dependent on Venezuela.

Cuba and Venezuela have formed more than 30 joint ventures over the years, most of them based in Venezuela.
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I wonder what the odds are that the same or different US oil companies will try to get back in with the successor?


Well speak of the devil, look what just popped up.

Good comment about rail "Rail is a crutch".


Any <frantically teaching wife to use the Ipad as she heads out the door with it in hand> mouse



http://www.bloomberg.com/video/hofmeister-says-venezuelan-oi...

Hofmeister Says Venezuelan Oil 'Hugely Important'
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Hofmeister Says Venezuelan Oil 'Hugely Important'


This is a better way to post it for those who don't have video.

I rather like Hofmeister, mostly practical and sticks to the truth, I do wish he would learn to say 'oil sands' though.


Tim

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-03-06/pdvsa-has-long-way-...

PDVSA Has Long Way to Come Back After Chaves: Hofmeister

By Carlos Caminada - Mar 6, 2013 9:51 AM AT

John Hofmeister, ... comments on the outlook for state-owned oil producer Petroleos de Venezuela SA, known as PDVSA, after the death of Hugo Chavez ... He also spoke about TransCanada Corp. (TRP)’s Keystone XL pipeline.

...

On investment in Venzuela’s oil after Chavez: “Companies like” Exxon Mobil Corp. and ConocoPhillips (COP) “pulled out. Other companies stayed on the basis that Chavez can’t live forever and it’s better to stick around rather than try to reenter. It wouldn’t surprise me that, if the environment changes and if the rule of law comes back, you could see companies wanting to reinvest in Venezuela on the basis that this rich source of crude is valuable.”

...

...“The reserve amount is hugely important not only to the U.S. but to the world as a whole. The production in Venezuela has gone downhill essentially throughout the Chavez era.”

On crude from Venezuela vs. crude from Canada and other nations: “You get heavy crude from Mexico and you get heavy crude from elsewhere. So it’s not simply Venezuela that produces heavy crude. But let’s be clear, we will be using heavy crude from wherever it comes from

...

On TransCanada Corp.’s Keystone XL pipeline: ‘‘From an environmental standpoint, the Canadian tar sands are going through an environmental revolution. The old mining technology is giving way to steam-assisted production, where you don’t have the big pits anymore. You clean up the dirty lakes of oil remnants. Rail is a crutch when you’re really struggling to get oil into the market but a pipeline is so much more efficient, so much more predictable. Fortunately there have been no rail crashes, but there could be, so I think a pipeline is long-term safer than rail as well.”
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On investment in Venzuela’s oil after Chavez: “Companies like” Exxon Mobil Corp. and ConocoPhillips (COP) “pulled out. Other companies stayed on the basis that Chavez can’t live forever

iirc, when Chavez nationalized the foreign oil holdings, he offered to negotiate restitution. All the other oil companies negotiated a settlement. It was just the two US companies that refused to settle.

Hugo Chavez nationalizes oil and makes foreign investors accept his rules
28.02.2007

President of Venezuela Hugo Chavez signed a decree yesterday on the final nationalization of all oil deposits in the country. The decree will come into effect on May 1. “I signed the decree on the nationalization of the oil deposits controlled by foreign companies. We are recovering property and management in these strategic areas. The privatization of oil is over in Venezuela. This was the last area that we hadn’t recovered. This is the true nationalization of the oil. The oil belongs to all Venezuelans. If they [foreign companies developing Venezuelan oil wells] reject our offer then they can leave the country,” Chavez said.


http://english.pravda.ru/world/americas/28-02-2007/87855-cha...

An article on bubblevision's web site yesterday said, iirc, Conoco's holdings were worth some $4B at the time of nationalization, but, according to an analyst, would now be worth some $20B. If you were big oil, would you want to stoke up a coup so the new junta would like to "show it's appreciation" by restoring your property? Dress it up in high sounding rhetoric like "we of the ruling military counsel want to demonstrate that foreign interests are welcome to invest in Venezuela, and their investments will be respected"

Steve...as it happens, long Conoco
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Well to begin with the US gets about a million barrels of oil a day from Venezuela. So y'all have been funding him for 15 years while he kicked dirt in your faces? Ironically that oil went to the very refineries that were supposed to have it replaced with oil sands oil via the Keystone pipeline from Alberta. You know the pipeline that has been waiting for approval for 4.5 years?

I'm all for the Keystone pipeline getting approved. But if it was fully built and pumping oil today it would NOT replace oil from Venezuala. It would replace the next most costly imported oil, incrementally. Why would the Keystone oil replace oil that travels a short distance?


Mike
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Why would the Keystone oil replace oil that travels a short distance?

The crude from Venezuela and that which would be shipped via the Keystone Pipeline are similar in that they both are heavy sour crude. (Think wet hot asphalt.) The refineries on the gulf coast, particularly the old Valero refinery and the Motiva refinery were upgraded to large units that specialized in handling this crude. This crude requires special units to hydro treat and cracking.

(An article to explain is at Wikipedia.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum_refining_processes

As these are large expensive and specialized units, it is better to move the oil to the units rather than build new units near the oil. On the other hand, West Texas Intermediate Crude and Light Sweet Crude can be processed with relatively simple stills.

So, the Canadian crude will augment, not displace the Venezuelan crude.

Cheers
Qazulight (You asked)
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Oil is mostly fungible. If we didn't buy Chavez oil somebody else would buy it. Venezuela is closer to the US than other likely markets. So all this would do is raise the cost of oil for all by raising transportation costs.I said "mostly fungible" because in fact heavy Venezuelan oil is hard to refine, and US refiners are set up to do that better than foreign refiners.
But North American oil is even closer and some of it (Bakken) is better quality.
Pipeline limitation is politics, not economics.
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...But if it was fully built and pumping oil today it would NOT replace oil from Venezuala. It would replace the next most costly imported oil, incrementally. Why would the Keystone oil replace oil that travels a short distance?


Mike



Great question, heavy crude from Canada is currently the cheapest crude oil in the world. The quality is similar to the more expensive oil from Venezuala and more important if you go back and look at the link I posted (kindly posted again here):

http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_...

there is less available from Venezuala each of the past several years. This is not just because the Chinese and Cubans are taking some of it but more because Mr. Chavez had been using his oil to fund both his domestic and foreign policy but not reinvesting part of the money to develop the large reserves. As a result total production has been generally declining since he came to power.

http://www.indexmundi.com/energy.aspx?country=ve&product...

I would also add that while the distance is fairly short it is by tanker which is not necessarily cheaper, safer nor as reliable as pipelines.

Oh, another source for the Texas refineries has been Mexico:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mexican_Petroleum_Producti...

but they are both producing less and using more of it themselves.

Meanwhile Canadian producers are cutting Capex and begging the pipeline guys to provide pipes to the East coast:

http://business.financialpost.com/2013/02/07/transcanada-say...

TransCanada says east route eases oil discount


By Rebecca Penty, Bloomberg News | 13/02/07 | Last Updated: 13/02/15 9:19 AM E


West coast:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enbridge_Northern_Gateway_Pipel...

and even North to Churchill:

http://business.financialpost.com/2012/10/31/oil-producers-e...

Would you believe they are even looking at this? }};-()

http://www.alaskahighwaynews.ca/article/20130123/FORTSTJOHN0...

I should add that not all of the oil produced in Canada is heavy crude, a couple of the large oil sands guys upgrade their product to light oil and many other Canadian conventional producers (including the ones I buy) produce light oil only.

Regards Tim
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I said "mostly fungible" because in fact heavy Venezuelan oil is hard to refine,

iirc, the "spare" capacity the Saudis have been offering is also heavy, sour crude, so the choice for the US is shipping crude across the Caribean, or from nearly halfway around the world.

Steve
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The truth is that Chavez was a brutal despot who strutted the world stage basking in the international celebrity status he gained as a result of his anti-American rhetoric and relentless attacks on Britain.

He was a master of propaganda who deftly wooed the ‘useful idiots’ of the Left — to use the phrase Stalin applied to Britain’s Labour politicians and trade unionists — while clamping down on free speech in his own country, rigging the political system in his favour and presiding over a nation drowning in bloodshed and mired in poverty.
...
He befriended murderous tyrants such as Libya’s Colonel Gaddafi, used his country’s vast oil wealth to support terrorist groups such as Hezbollah in Lebanon and helped terrorist drug-runners in Colombia whose products cause misery and death across the world.
...
And yet, because of his defiant stance on the U.S. and his attacks on British ‘imperialism’, he was lionised in this country by the Left and its media mouthpieces, The Guardian and the BBC. (Perhaps that’s not so unexpected — we have to remember that a BBC reporter wept during the funeral of arch Palestinian terrorist Yasser Arafat.)
...
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2289326/How-typical-...
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Chavez was a brutal despot who strutted the world stage basking in the international celebrity status he gained as a result of his anti-American rhetoric

DD

Ah but he was loved by the poor in his own country and by several other governments in the region who couldn't afford the global oil prices?

I would add that he is not the only national leadership that has tried to buy adulation ...? Oh and he was elected.


**** absolutely not signed ****

Note: Democracy doesn't seem to work very well where the vast majority of the wealth is concentrated in a small percentage of the population?


http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/nations-rely-chavezs-genero...

Nations that rely on Chavez's generous oil terms have much to lose if it slows to a trickle

By Peter Orsi, The Associated Press | The Canadian Press – 14 hours ago

By Peter Orsi, The Associated Press
HAVANA - Cubans remember the so-called Special Period of the 1990s, when the Soviet Union's sudden collapse plunged the island into years of economic depression, with cars and buses disappearing from the streets for lack of fuel and rolling blackouts leaving the capital in darkness.
Now Cubans fear a return of hard times...

...

Cubans are not alone in having worries following Tuesday's death of Chavez, who used Venezuela's oil wealth to aid allies through a part-ideological, part-humanitarian program that gives out petroleum at preferential terms.

More than a dozen other countries in Latin America and the Caribbean, many of them economic minnows, have benefited to the tune of billions of dollars from the Petrocaribe pact that was created in 2005 with the goal of unifying the regional oil industry under Venezuelan leadership and countering U.S. influence.
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Note: Democracy doesn't seem to work very well where the vast majority of the wealth is concentrated in a small percentage of the population?

True dat.
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tim: "Note: Democracy doesn't seem to work very well where the vast majority of the wealth is concentrated in a small percentage of the population?"

I mostly skip these threads as a waste of time for all involved. In my opinion it is no coincidence that dictators like Castro and Chavez gain power in countries in which a few multinational corporations wield huge amounts of wealth and power while the majority of the populace are subsisting in abject poverty with little or no hope to escape it no matter how hard they work.

People like that are unlikely to gain power in fairly run democracies with reasonable safety nets like Canada, Sweden, Norway, Finland and most of the rest of Europe most of the time.

In my opinion they are unlikely to gain power here in the U.S. unless we choose to let the multinational corporations and big banks continue to squeeze the middle classes harder and harder while we destroy what's left of our safety nets, public education and basic infrastructure.
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Thank you for recommending this post to our Best of feature.

tim: "Note: Democracy doesn't seem to work very well where the vast majority of the wealth is concentrated in a small percentage of the population?"

People like that are unlikely to gain power in fairly run democracies with reasonable safety nets like Canada, Sweden, Norway, Finland and most of the rest of Europe most of the time.

In my opinion they are unlikely to gain power here in the U.S. unless we choose to let the multinational corporations and big banks continue to squeeze the middle classes harder and harder while we destroy what's left of our safety nets, public education and basic infrastructure.


I'm begining to agree with y'all.
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I'm begining to agree with y'all.


Oh oh, that's what happens when people of a certain persuasion reach a certain age?

Next he will be protesting against pipelines and the NRA? }};-D


**** absolutely not signed ****

Any <drones don't kill people, people kill people using drones> mouse

Tim: feels the pressure of a rough winter
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Ah but he was loved by the poor in his own country and by several other governments in the region who couldn't afford the global oil prices?

I would add that he is not the only national leadership that has tried to buy adulation ...? Oh and he was elected.


Why didn't he take the money and run? Was it because he couldn't bear to give up the adulation or because he was afraid of prosecution by a new regime?

.......................
Was Chavez worth over $1bn when he died? Intelligence analyst claims he amassed huge fortune from country's oil wealth

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2289427/Was-Hugo-Cha...
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Next he will be protesting against pipelines and the NRA?

Snow's gettin' kind'a deep up there isn't it.?
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Why didn't he take the money and run? Was it because he couldn't bear to give up the adulation or because he was afraid of prosecution by a new regime?


Er... he was dying of cancer, it is hard to run from that?


I don't know if anyone has mentioned it to you but British newspapers don't all have a really high standard of news vs. speculation? They do however have a good selection of scantily dressed famous for being famous ladies.

Incidentally did I mention that the bank you own has exposure there? I've been assured it is small.

Tim

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/internationa...

Expansion vs. exposure: Scotiabank’s game of risk in Venezuela

GRANT ROBERTSON - BANKING REPORTER

The Globe and Mail

Last updated Thursday, Mar. 07 2013, 7:03 AM EST

Bank of Nova Scotia is often lauded for its bold expansion into Latin America, having completed major acquisitions in Colombia and Peru. But when it comes to Venezuela, the bank has done little for the past 15 years – primarily because the government of President Hugo Chavez has been hostile to large-scale foreign investment.

Mr. Chavez’s death this week has spawned questions about whether Venezuela will open its arms to more capital from outside its borders to help revive a troubled economy. If that should happen, Canada’s third-largest bank would be poised for expansion: it owns a 27-per-cent stake in the country’s seventh-largest lender, Banco del Caribe, which it purchased in 1998.
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In my opinion they are unlikely to gain power here in the U.S. unless we choose to let the multinational corporations and big banks continue to squeeze the middle classes harder and harder while we destroy what's left of our safety nets, public education and basic infrastructure.

Ya don't mess wit da banks:

Silvio Berlusconi jailed for a YEAR in Italy for leaking secret phone call about banking scandal

The former Italian Prime Minister was jailed by an Italian court this morning

The case is linked to a banking scandal in 2005

He has pleaded his innocence can seek to have the decision overturned

He will not serve any time in jail until appeal trials have been carried out
(read plenty of time to recant his statement)

His brother Paolo was sentenced to two years and three months in jail

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2289548/Silvio-Berlu...
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Why didn't he take the money and run? Was it because he couldn't bear to give up the adulation or because he was afraid of prosecution by a new regime?

Er... he was dying of cancer, it is hard to run from that?


I meant before he was diagnosed.

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it to you but British newspapers don't all have a really high standard of news vs. speculation?

You mean some of their headlines end with question marks?

Incidentally did I mention that the bank you own has exposure there? I've been assured it is small.

Yeah, capitalism makes for strange bedfellows.

Desert (checks for bedbugs) Dave
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They do however have a good selection of scantily dressed famous for being famous ladies.

I think you're refering to the Sun's famous "Page Three":

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/

I looked it up just for you

Desert (Only reads the articles in the UK Mail) Dave
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In my opinion they are unlikely to gain power here in the U.S. unless we choose to let the multinational corporations and big banks continue to squeeze the middle classes harder and harder while we destroy what's left of our safety nets, public education and basic infrastructure.

Aren't we already there?
Look at our most recent 2 regimes!
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