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Author: mhirschey Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 212877  
Subject: College Date: 4/15/2006 4:33 PM
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I've spent a lifetime in academia, and would be happy to share some insights about college education.

1. If you've got the talent, go. The correlation is very high between the amount of useful education one accomplishes and income. The data to support this assertion is simply overwhelming. According to a recent government report, working adults ages 25 to 64 earned an average of $34,700 per year. Average earnings ranged from $18,900 for high school dropouts to $25,900 for high school graduates, $45,400 for college graduates, and $99,300 for workers with professional degrees (M.D., J.D., D.D.S., or D.V.M.). Workers with professional degrees (MBAs included) have the highest average earnings.

See http://www.census.gov/prod/2002pubs/p23-210.pdf

2.U.S. colleges and university are world-class The Big Ten, Ivies, and University of California system are the class of the world. Add the University of Chicago, Stanford, Duke, USC and a few others, and you've got the list for grad school targets. An MBA is the most enormously successful product ever invented by higher education.

3. Consider a small liberal arts college. Before heading off to graduate or professional school, consider one of the really top-notch liberal arts colleges. Williams, Carleton, Grinnell, Claremont and the rest give undergraduate students all of their attention and resources. I'd recommend an undergraduate institution that does not have a (resource hogging) graduate program.

4. Don't dismiss state schools. If resources are really tight, go to the best local state-supported institution. I was once asked how many students we have at our school. I replied “about half.” That's the bad news. The good news is that your local state university has lots of brilliant, hard-working students that you would love to lock horns with in class.

5. Consider a career as a business professor. The most popular undergraduate majors are accounting, economics and psychology. Biology is real popular too. Unfortunately, nobody ever thinks of using the wonderful tools learned in those rigorous undergraduate majors as foundation for a PhD program in business. Do you know the starting salary for a new finance prof? (Hint: Think two shares of Berkshire Hathaway, and we ain't talking Baby Bs.

Mark

PS: If you or someone you love is interested in #5, contact me and I'll be happy to provide some useful information.
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Author: Zamboni Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118082 of 212877
Subject: Re: College Date: 4/16/2006 12:16 AM
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"3. Consider a small liberal arts college."

Yep, professor. I went to one of those mentioned in your post and value my BS in English literature earned there far more than my MBA.

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Author: john5286 Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118085 of 212877
Subject: Re: College Date: 4/16/2006 8:55 AM
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"An MBA is the most enormously successful product ever invented by higher education".

#1) What are you basing that statement on?

#2) Just out of curiosity what do you think Buffett & Munger would think of that statement? Seems to me that both of them have taken some subtle jabs at MBA's over the years....

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Author: RaplhCramden Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118087 of 212877
Subject: Re: College Date: 4/16/2006 9:33 AM
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"3. Consider a small liberal arts college."

Yep, professor. I went to one of those mentioned in your post and value my BS in English literature earned there far more than my MBA.


One of that list gave a BS in English literature? Which one? I had previously heard of that only from Caltech.

I am very happy with my BA in Physics earned from a school which should have been at the top of that list of small liberal arts colleges: Swarthmore College.

R:

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Author: missash Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118088 of 212877
Subject: Re: College Date: 4/16/2006 10:02 AM
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<<<Consider a small liberal arts college>>>>...consider the LOCATION of the small liberal arts college. e.g. do you want to be in a small town in the middle of Maine(Bates,Colby,Bowdoin), an even smaller town in upostate N.Y.(Hamilton, Colgate)or the Commonwealth of Massachusetts( Williams, Amherst)?

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Author: RaplhCramden Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118089 of 212877
Subject: Re: College Date: 4/16/2006 10:02 AM
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"An MBA is the most enormously successful product ever invented by higher education".

#1) What are you basing that statement on?

#2) Just out of curiosity what do you think Buffett & Munger would think of that statement? Seems to me that both of them have taken some subtle jabs at MBA's over the years....


Buffett spends a LOT of time with MBA classes visiting him. That says something pretty positive to me.

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Author: bogwan Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118090 of 212877
Subject: Re: College Date: 4/16/2006 10:20 AM
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1. If you've got the talent, go.

If education is paid for by parents, but consumed by children it is not clear how payback, presnet value ect can be calculated. I would point out that your analysis is retrospective and does not take supply and demand into account. In a globalized world a medical degree may be less valuable as medicine is the same evrywhere. For example American PBS commentator Charlie Rose seems to have chosen France for his heart surgery, as opposed to NY where he lives. I have been collecting stories of people with medical choices and where they go. USA is not always the answer (Amitab Bakhan chose India, Diego Maradonna chose Cuba/Columbia).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Rose

2.U.S. colleges and university are world-class

So is the Indian Inst of Technology. That is the problem. There is alot of supply coming on line in India and China. You might also note that S America and eastern europe are coming on strong. Dark horse South Africa could also come from behind.

It can be seen in many other areas. The F-16 was the superior aircraft. It's replacement the F-35 will likely not be much better than the Eurofighter. The Gripen is probably the best plane for those spending their own money. If you do not need western amenities the MIGs are no slouch. BTW, Sweden is the most innovative weaponier in the world. Funny how they accomplished this without ever going to war.

3. Consider a small liberal arts college.
A smart kid would consider a college in a non english speaking country.

4. Don't dismiss state schools.
State U of Moscow maybe. Don't waste your youth. There is a big world out there.

Do you know the starting salary for a new finance prof? Perhaps overvalued? An MBA is a masters in using the system, the American system. I suspect that using the Indian, Chinese, Venezualian, or Saudi system will be more important in the future. Once again supply and demand. No question MBAs are in a cyclical high.

I personally do not see Americans getting the level of respect they got in the past in the future. For that reason a masters in American anything will not be as valuable.

Once again I would suggest examining options look foward not back. The answer might be USA, or Czech Republic.



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Author: aspenxtrm Two stars, 250 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118092 of 212877
Subject: Re: College Date: 4/16/2006 11:01 AM
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""An MBA is the most enormously successful product ever invented by higher education"...

#1) What are you basing that statement on?
"


Check out the number og MBA's granted each year relitive to other degress. I believe MBA's are something like 30-50% of all gradyate degress. (or something like that). For schools whose business is providing education and degrees, I would count that kind of market share as "successful"

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Author: MrCheeryO Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118093 of 212877
Subject: Re: College Date: 4/16/2006 11:12 AM
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...Do you know the starting salary for a new finance prof? (Hint: Think two shares of Berkshire Hathaway, and we ain't talking Baby Bs....

Wow, a new finance prof? An associate? No wonder tuition is skyrocketing.

...Professor morale hinges on salaries
Fund raising drive also tough on some department morale
by Jesse Christopherson
published on Friday, August 29, 2003

Salary, large class size and the ASU administration's emphasis on raising money through biosciences and engineering are affecting morale among some ASU faculty.

"We are now in our sixth year of no salary increase, and in 45 years of academia, I have never experienced that," said political science professor Sheldon Simon. ...


On the third hand,

EMPLOYEE RECOGNITION BREAKFAST on April 6, 2006

In recognition and appreciation of the many ways that ASU employees serve the University and the greater community, an annual celebration is held on each campus. All classified and administrative staff, academic and service professionals, and faculty from ASU at the Tempe campus are invited to attend the EMPLOYEE RECOGNITION BREAKFAST on April 6, 2006.

http://www.asu.edu/hr/hr_news.html

So that's pretty good.







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Author: MrCheeryO Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118094 of 212877
Subject: Re: College Date: 4/16/2006 11:25 AM
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Just kind of surprised starting finance profs are pulling down that kind of money some places when Harvard Associate Deans are looking at this:

Title Associate Dean for Finance
School / Unit Harvard Medical School
Salary Grade 063

http://jobs.harvard.edu/jobs/summ_req?in_post_id=28711

63 $ 137,700 $ 257,500

http://www.employment.harvard.edu/benefits/compensation/index.shtml


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Author: DeliLama Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118095 of 212877
Subject: Re: College Date: 4/16/2006 11:26 AM
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"For example American PBS commentator Charlie Rose seems to have chosen France for his heart surgery, as opposed to NY where he lives. I have been collecting stories of people with medical choices and where they go. USA is not always the answer (Amitab Bakhan chose India, Diego Maradonna chose Cuba/Columbia)."

The variation within a country is greater than the difference between them. I'd rather have the best doctors in Country X than below average doctors in the USA. I sure as hell wouldn't want the average medical care in Cuba. http://www.canf.org/Issues/medicalapartheid.htm

Since medical costs in many countries (like India, Costa Rica) are very low, it makes sense for someone from the US to go elsewhere.

"So is the Indian Inst of Technology. That is the problem. There is alot of supply coming on line in India and China. You might also note that S America and eastern europe are coming on strong. Dark horse South Africa could also come from behind."

I consider this all to be a very good thing. It doesn't mean the US is losing, it means that a lot of other stuff is sprouting up. The world needs a lot more engineers in the future. The world will also benefit greatly from competing systems. When one system proves itself better, the others will adopt those methods and everyone wins.

"4. Don't dismiss state schools.
State U of Moscow maybe. Don't waste your youth. There is a big world out there."


So you'd rather go to Moscow than, say, Perdue, Berkley, Ann Arbor, etc.?

"An MBA is a masters in using the system, the American system. I suspect that using the Indian, Chinese, Venezualian, or Saudi system will be more important in the future."

Rome wasn't burnt in a day and the US isn't falling apart in the business world. I can tell you from looking at Chinese businesses that they're pretty far from the pinnacle of accounting and finance. And Saudi Arabia? Venezuala? Maybe if you're planning to go into the oil industry. Venezuela's GDP is 1/3 oil (and it's 80% of export earnings, 90% for Saudi Arabia). So do these countries do much pioneering work in developing methodologies of the oil industry? Are they doing much leading-edge work in the area of business/finance/management?

"I personally do not see Americans getting the level of respect they got in the past in the future. For that reason a masters in American anything will not be as valuable."

Even if the USA is a horribly evil monster with zero respect and the rest of the world is a glorious haven, by your logic Germany and Japan after 1945 would have been utter failures (except for the few people who escaped and got an education in a less morally repugnant place) rather than the spectacular successes they became.

DeliLama

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Author: Zamboni Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118098 of 212877
Subject: Re: College Date: 4/16/2006 3:38 PM
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One of that list gave a BS in English literature?

Raplh, I'm not as swift on the keyboard as HB. The 'S' is right next to the 'A', and I didn't proof read the reply. It was a BA.

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Author: missash Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118099 of 212877
Subject: Re: College Date: 4/16/2006 3:51 PM
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Article in the paper yesterday or today: College applications WAY up this year. Admission rates at select colleges like Brown, Stanford down to 11%.

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Author: DeliLama Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118102 of 212877
Subject: Re: College Date: 4/16/2006 6:17 PM
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For all this talk about colleges, it's worth pointing out that there is an enormous amount of opportunity out there. There are probably still pockets of industry where you need to have gone to the right schools to get in and advance, but that seems to be decreasing over time. And is that what you want?

I'd say the most important predictor of success in a person's life is their "error signal". People have an intuitive sense for where they should be (want to be) and they have a pretty good sense for where they are. They look at the difference between the two and adjust their actions accordingly based on how much importance they give to that error signal.

So if you can know where someone expects to be and how genuinely important it is that they get there, then you can get a good sense for what their future holds. Very often, people's conscious beliefs about which errors are important differs from which ones are truly important to them at a gut level. All goals require trade-offs. Getting into an elite school means giving up a lot of fun and freedom. That's why I said that choosing a school is really about finding where you belong. Life is short and trying to maximize your future earnings can be a mistake. Look at Warren Buffett. He gave up the rat race in 1969 and decided to live by sub-optimum rules like only working with people he liked, not sacrificing workers' livelihoods for a tiny fractional increase in returns, and not beating himself up to get the maxium returns for partners. And he wasn't a total failure because of it. :-)

DeliLama

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Author: bogwan Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118103 of 212877
Subject: Re: College Date: 4/16/2006 6:27 PM
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I consider this all to be a very good thing...

Competition is good; for the consumer not the producer.

"So you'd rather go to Moscow than, say, Perdue, Berkley, Ann Arbor, etc.?"

Hell yeah. An undergraduate degree from a foreign U is IMO the most cost effective solution to the education problem.


"zero respect "

The US has in a sense profited from selling the American Dream. While the dream is not dead I think you will see more and more foreigners looking to other nations for style and ideas (and weapons). Eventually you may even see mocking of America, as happened to Britain after the world wars (see the mostly bogus "Bridge over the river Quai" and even "It's a Mad Mad Mad World" for depictions of foolish Brits)

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Author: DeliLama Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118104 of 212877
Subject: Re: College Date: 4/16/2006 8:57 PM
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"The US has in a sense profited from selling the American Dream. While the dream is not dead I think you will see more and more foreigners looking to other nations for style and ideas (and weapons)."

I don't know why who-buys-which-weapons are such a big deal in the scheme of things. I know who the biggest consumer is.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/mil_exp_dol_fig

As far as style trends go, I thought Western Europe was supposed to own that market. And ideas? I thought the Internet pretty much made geographic location meaningless.

"Eventually you may even see mocking of America"

Um, when did the rest of the world ever stop mocking America? Western Europe, the Middle East, Russia, Cuba....

In the future, the average middle-class family will be living in China and India. Will they mock us? Will they live in split-level ranch houses and watch American Idol? Do we care?

DeliLama

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Author: mhirschey Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118106 of 212877
Subject: Re: College Date: 4/16/2006 10:43 PM
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My comments on college education have generated a fair bit of email from those asking for a bit more detail. In the interest of efficiently answering such questions, I thought I'd use this venue.

First of all, please do not take any offense when I say that U.S. colleges and universities are world class. My point is simple. Thousands of smart kids from China, India, the EEU, and all over the world clamor to get into U.S. colleges and universities. That should tell you something. The U.S. college and university system will be in trouble when really smart kids from southern California go to college in Japan or China. I see no evidence of that.

By the way, have you noticed that the U.S. educational system appears to lag foreign educational systems in terms of accomplishment at the primary and secondary level? I have, and it bothers me. By the time kids get through the second or third year of college, U.S. educational achievement catches and passes the achievements of foreign students educated abroad. In short, we do a better job at college than we do in grade school and in high school. I think there is a simple reason for this. At the primary and secondary level in the United States, public schools have a monopoly on public funding. They don't compete for funding. At the college and university level, public funding is directed at students rather than institutions. Stanford competes against UCLA for students, and that forces both to be more efficient. Competition is good, especially in education.

For hard evidence that the MBA is the best degree ever invented, check salaries. By the way, I'd argue that an MBA makes a wonderful combination with a liberal arts undergrad, engineering degree, and so on. My favorite undergrad degree is economics; it has the potential to teach more than what happens—it teaches why things happen.

I believe one of the least understood secrets in academia is the wonderful opportunity available for smart kids who want to pursue an academic career in business education at the college level. Here are some points worth considering:

The most popular undergraduate majors are accounting, economics and psychology. Biology is real popular too. Unfortunately, nobody ever thinks of using the wonderful tools learned in those rigorous undergraduate majors as foundation for a PhD program in business. The reasons are quite simple. From an intellectual point of view, accounting, medical science, inorganic chemistry, and library science all emphasize categorical knowledge and rote memorization. That's fine. If we're on the operating table, we're all happy that the doctor recognizes the difference between the femur and the tibia. Similarly, if you can memorize some important accounting rules you can pass the CPA exam and get a good job. However, graduate education in business, like accounting and finance, delve beyond what is to ask why. Many good students in accounting like the fact that you can calculate book value per share according to GAAP if you precisely follow some simple rules. Academics in accounting and finance are more interested in noting that price-book ratios average about 3:1 and ask why? What's left out? That involves integrative knowledge and many undergrads in business find such questions beyond them.

http://www.barra.com/Research/Fundamentals.aspx

The market for college professors is a simple reflection of market supply and demand conditions. From the demand side of the equation, demand for finance and accounting professors reflects the exploding importance of financial services in the economy. Today, the financial sector comprises about one quarter of the S&P 500's market value. There are lots of students to be trained for those jobs as financial planners, brokers, CPAs, and so on.

http://www.barra.com/Research/SectorWeights.aspx

From the supply side of the equation, almost no Americans go to graduate school in finance and accounting today. Smart kids in accounting study hard, pass the CPA exam, go to work for one of the “final four,” and they are off and running. Smart kids in finance study hard, get an MBA, go to Wall Street, and the rest is history. Neither can afford the “opportunity cost” of giving up 5 years of $50,000-$100,000 in salary to go to graduate school. As a result, almost all of the PhD candidates in accounting and finance are foreign born. That's fine, of course, provided that they speak good English and have the passion to be good professors. Some do.

Last year, I placed a really smart undergrad with a math and business major at the Bank of America in Boston. Her first-year salary was $105,000 and she is worth it. She'd make a wonderful college professor, but it probably won't happen. The money is too big elsewhere.

This year, about 750 PhDs will be granted in economics by U.S. academic institutions. That's about the same as in all areas of business combined. I'd guess about 125 PhDs will be granted in accounting and in finance. Those numbers tell why econ PhDs start out in a range near $85,000-$95,000 whereas finance PhDs start at, say, $120,00-$200,000 (for the very best). For a rank ordering of the best schools to obtain a PhD in finance, see:

http://citm.utdallas.edu/utdrankings/rankingbydate.aspx

NYU, Wharton, and UCLA head up the “pecking order,” but any of the top 25 schools offer students a wonderful opportunity to earn a degree that will give them lots of wonderful job opportunities. Top students from these schools are able to write their own ticket, but each school may take only 2-3 new students per year. Competition is fierce with as many as 100-125 applicants for each student accepted. The University of Texas-Austin and University of Wisconsin-Madison are a couple of personal favorites. Both are EXCELLENT.

At KU, my home institution, we are lucky to have a small handful of really good students. We accept 1-2 new PhD students per year, on average, and successful job market candidates can expect 3-4 job offers in the $120,000 range.

It's a great gig, and one that I would recommend to serious students interested in self-directed, cognitive activity—provided you have a passion for business. In fact, my son is now pursuing a PhD in finance; he'll do great. It's a great field for women, too. Like a lot of things, if you love it, you'll do a great job, and be satisfied with the economic rewards. If you go into in for the money, I'd guess you will be disappointed. There is a lot more money to be made on Wall Street. In terms of salary, you might be surprised to know that a new assistant professor makes about the same salary as a tenured full professor, provided that the full professor remains at the top of his game. I'm closing in on 100 books and articles, have been an effective college professor (I hope) for 30 years, and my salary is about the same as a rookie.

But that's another story, and this post is too long already.

Mark


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Author: bogwan Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118108 of 212877
Subject: Re: College Date: 4/17/2006 8:47 AM
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"I don't know why who-buys-which-weapons are such a big deal in the scheme of things. "

The F-16 was the symbol of America as super power, both cultural and military. Who got it was one tool of American power. It was like a BMW, it said that you arrived. It was also the best. I doubt the F-35, if it is ever produced, will achieve that.

"when did the rest of the world ever stop mocking America?"

Alot of the sales at McDonalds is based on people wanting to buy a bit of America. In the future they might be in burger selling business, which might not be as good.





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Author: mhirschey Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118125 of 212877
Subject: Re: College Date: 4/17/2006 4:15 PM
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Kahuna,

With a graduate degree from the best applied securities progream in the country, the Wisconsin ASAP Program, you have more than enough academic credentials to teach security analysis.

http://www.bus.wisc.edu/asap/default.asp

Why not give UMKC, Rockhursts or some of the other good schools in the Kansas City area a try?

BTW, Barron's this week says we'll all live to 150, so at 61 you're just a kid!

Mark

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Author: WBuffettJr Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118169 of 212877
Subject: Re: College Date: 4/18/2006 11:53 AM
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Mark,

I'm half considering joining the MBA program at UT-Austin. If you have an additional insight into this school, I would appreciate it.

One thing that caught my eye, they have a hedge fund program where students actually run a real hedge fund together (money comes from the school). Seems like that would be a decent stepping stone for one hoping to run his own fund one day, as I am.

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Author: mhirschey Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118255 of 212877
Subject: Re: College Date: 4/20/2006 9:16 PM
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I'm half considering joining the MBA program at UT-Austin. If you have an additional insight into this school, I would appreciate it.


UT-Austin has excellent finance faculty and terrific students.

Go.

Mark

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Author: mhirschey Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118257 of 212877
Subject: Re: College Date: 4/20/2006 9:23 PM
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MrCheeryO,

Do you know the starting salary for a new finance prof? (Hint: Think two shares of Berkshire Hathaway, and we ain't talking Baby Bs....

Wow, a new finance prof? An associate? No wonder tuition is skyrocketing.


Hmm..

Last spring, a talented undergradute student of mine with a math/business major landed a job in Boston at $105,000. Apparently, she's worth it.

If college professors were overpaid, I'd think supply would be skyrocketing. It's not.

Unfortunately, if you ask a professor, s/he might suggest that skyrocketing tuition payments are going into fancy buildings and administration rather than into the classroom.

(Others would disagree, of course.)

Mark



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Author: Robert52 Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118315 of 212877
Subject: Re: College Date: 4/22/2006 12:52 PM
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Consider a small liberal arts college. Before heading off to graduate or professional school, consider one of the really top-notch liberal arts colleges. Williams, Carleton, Grinnell, Claremont and the rest give undergraduate students all of their attention and resources. I'd recommend an undergraduate institution that does not have a (resource hogging) graduate program.

...Don't dismiss state schools. If resources are really tight, go to the best local state-supported institution...


We encouraged our daughters to attend small liberal arts colleges so that they could take advantage of the personal attention by professors and smaller classes. They would not have thrived at a large state university.

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Author: woodymw Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118364 of 212877
Subject: Re: College Date: 4/24/2006 11:52 AM
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I'm late to this, I know, but I want to drop this out here...

This year, about 750 PhDs will be granted in economics by U.S. academic institutions. That's about the same as in all areas of business combined. I'd guess about 125 PhDs will be granted in accounting and in finance. Those numbers tell why econ PhDs start out in a range near $85,000-$95,000 whereas finance PhDs start at, say, $120,00-$200,000 (for the very best). For a rank ordering of the best schools to obtain a PhD in finance, see:


It was mentioned a little earlier in that post, but I want to point it out a little more clearly. Background: I'm in an MBA program, and I'm concentrating on finance. Not investment banking so much as corporate finance, but finance nonetheless.

My favorite finance professor told me a few weeks ago that he has a standing offer to work on Wall Street for a high-six figure, maybe seven-figure salary. The post above references the "very best" finance professors. Well, those guys are absolute rainmakers for investment banking firms. They can make a fortune.

I guess the point is that the opportunity cost is not limited to the 4-5 years it takes to get that Ph.D. in finance. It also includes the lifetime earnings...it takes an awfully dedicated person to forego that kind of salary for "merely" $200,000 a year in a school that may or may not be in a place that is super interesting for them.

Just another perspective.

Matthew

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Author: Fuma102 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118512 of 212877
Subject: Re: College Date: 4/27/2006 8:43 AM
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While it can be argued that the US has a "world class" MBA education system, it certainly has a world class PhD program in Biology (Molecular, Biochem, etc...).

Even the best places outside of the US have trouble competing for various reasons - China? few jobs, hard to get funding. Pasteur Institute - great place, not as much funding, bureacracy issues. Singapore? - have to import all their students. Focus heavily on patents, I question their ability to get to the top & stay there while "purchasing" the best the US has to offer in terms of personnel.

I said this a few months back when TIME came out with an article on America Flunking Science on the Biotech Board - America is not going anywhere for DECADES in these fields (biology, chemistry). Its hard to compete with the established likes of Stanford, Hopkins, & MIT - plus numerous others - AND the amount of funding available. Government funding, while recently cut 7% - is much higher than anywhere else. Not to mention funding arenas like the Jimmy Fund, Howard Hughes Medical Institute, and the Ford Foundation.

and I've seen "the best" international folk walk through the doors of Hopkins - they do not compare favorably.

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