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Author: Cocomartinez One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 76102  
Subject: Coming down the pike Date: 2/1/2006 4:29 PM
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From the "4 ways to ruin your retirement" article today:

"Of the $34,000 your average retiree collects every year, Social Security provides just 41% -- $13,940. Sure, studies show that the institution can meet its obligations in full through 2042 (or 2052, according to the Congressional Budget Office)."

and

"According to the Employee Benefit Research Institute's 2005 Retirement Confidence Survey, fewer than half of all Americans age 55 and older have even $45,000 saved up for retirement. In fact, excluding home equity, the median net worth of retirement-age Americans is closer to $30,000 -- which explains why their savings suffice to fund only 11% of their living costs."

Given the prognostications that the baby boomers are going to downsize their housing, and it seems that the housing boom is at least slowing if not going bust, let's exclude home equity based on volatility alone.

What is life going to be like for society when a HUGE number of people over 65 are living on $13,940 in social security and less than $45,000 in savings. How much can they make working part time at Walmart or McDonalds? What happens to the "consumer" economy? Healthcare?

I'm really curious about your thoughts about the future.
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Author: joelxwil Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 49625 of 76102
Subject: Re: Coming down the pike Date: 2/1/2006 5:00 PM
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It is frightening. Of course, I am old enough to remember when old people moved in with their children, and the children supported them. Maybe that will happen again.

People did take care of each other at one time.

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Author: 2gifts Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 49627 of 76102
Subject: Re: Coming down the pike Date: 2/1/2006 5:07 PM
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It is frightening. Of course, I am old enough to remember when old people moved in with their children, and the children supported them. Maybe that will happen again.

People did take care of each other at one time.


I'd prefer to have enough saved so that I am not forced to live with my children or have them support me. My parents felt the same way and were always adamant that they didn't even want to live with us. It simply wasn't on their list of choices, though if they had been forced to because that was all they could afford, I imagine they would have done it.

Even today when my dad is almost 86, my brother and I keep telling him that he could live with us if he wants to. He simply does not want to do that.

I would prefer that there still be a choice for both the parents and children, and I think that by setting aside for my retirement, I wlll have that choice. But to me, it's about having and making a choice, and I am not convinced that what was done in the past was because people wanted to do that and not because they had to.

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Author: Cocomartinez One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 49629 of 76102
Subject: Re: Coming down the pike Date: 2/1/2006 5:55 PM
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I guess I'm not asking what all of us, here on TMF, are going to do individually.

I'm more interested in, apart from the 20 or 30% who have adequate means to retire comfortably when the time comes, how society or the economy in general will be transformed by the widespread poverty and penury that's the result of bad planning, corporate dumping of established pensions, social security shrinking and healthcare costs rising.

For those of you who are or will be AOK - well congrats!

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Author: theHedgehog Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 49630 of 76102
Subject: Re: Coming down the pike Date: 2/1/2006 6:02 PM
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how society or the economy in general will be transformed by the widespread poverty and penury that's the result of bad planning, corporate dumping of established pensions, social security shrinking and healthcare costs rising.

It would be a bad idea to think that the congress will allow its seniors to have no future but abject poverty. There are just too many of them, they all belong to AARP, and they all vote.

Hedge

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Author: ResNullius Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 49633 of 76102
Subject: Re: Coming down the pike Date: 2/1/2006 9:58 PM
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What is life going to be like for society when a HUGE number of people over 65 are living on $13,940 in social security and less than $45,000 in savings. How much can they make working part time at Walmart or McDonalds? What happens to the "consumer" economy? Healthcare?

Most retired folks live on two checks from SS, so the actual monthly draw is around $23K. Frankly, if folks aren't responsible enough to save more than $45K over their working live, then I don't really give a hoot what happens to them in retirement. It's not my obligation to worry about them. I don't think it's the government's obligation. If they elected to consume all their working life, then they can stop consuming during their retirement years. I don't know where liberals get these data, but a majority of working Americans will have either a pension or 401k to supplement their SS and savings. Retirement is made up of pension/401k/IRA, SS, and regular savings. Those with no regular savings are going to have less to live on. Those without savings or pension/401k/IRA will have even less. The lession is to get off your ass and take care of your own retirement, because I don't plan to take care of your's for you, at least not if I can help it.



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Author: theHedgehog Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 49634 of 76102
Subject: Re: Coming down the pike Date: 2/1/2006 10:11 PM
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If they elected to consume all their working life, then they can stop consuming during their retirement years.

The lession is to get off your ass and take care of your own retirement, because I don't plan to take care of your's for you, at least not if I can help it.

I wonder if our way of life would have been possible, the technology, transportation, food supply, etc, if it weren't for the rampant consumerism of the US. Don't be so quick to condemn those who made your lifestyle possible

Hedge

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Author: billjam Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 49635 of 76102
Subject: Re: Coming down the pike Date: 2/1/2006 10:55 PM
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<<<It is frightening. Of course, I am old enough to remember when old people moved in with their children, and the children supported them. Maybe that will happen again.>>>

Not likely. A contributing factor seems to be that the kids keep moving back in with the parents or expecting financial help. That makes it tough for mom and dad to save for their retirement.




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Author: teedup1 One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 49637 of 76102
Subject: Re: Coming down the pike Date: 2/2/2006 2:50 AM
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Not likely. A contributing factor seems to be that the kids keep moving back in with the parents or expecting financial help. That makes it tough for mom and dad to save for their retirement.
______

Kids today EXPECT way too much and that's the parents' fault! Don't let them back in the house once they've left, and don't give financial help if you can't afford to. If parents taught them right, kids will be responsible for their actions. Their irresponsibility is your own fault...and don't expect me to ante up for it.

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Author: AcmeFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 49639 of 76102
Subject: Re: Coming down the pike Date: 2/2/2006 8:35 AM
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I don't know where liberals get these data

Your post was ok (but only ok) until this flame-bait trash...sad that you feel the need to inject worthless drivel such as this into a legitimate question...

Acme

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Author: swinginforfences Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 49640 of 76102
Subject: Re: Coming down the pike Date: 2/2/2006 8:36 AM
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"I don't know where liberals get these data, but a majority of working Americans will have either a pension or 401k to supplement their SS and savings."

____________


I consider myself a 'liberal' in most respects, but I have no interest in mass public funding of America's retirement either. Social security is paid into by the individual and their employers. It's not hard for one to realize that people are living longer so - do the math - you either need to work to a later age than past generations - or save enough to fund your own retirement.

Both of my parents (now divorced) have never earned more than modest incomes and never saved a dime for retirement despite being (otherwise) pretty intelligent people. Now that they are knocking on the door of retirement age, they have no idea how they are going to get by should they live considerably longer than they are able to work. Part of me is mad at them for being financially irresponsible and implicitly placing this burden on me and my siblings. I guess it would have been more acceptable in past generations when it was expected that my parents would be moving back in :)

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Author: 2old4bs Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 49677 of 76102
Subject: Re: Coming down the pike Date: 2/3/2006 11:06 AM
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What is life going to be like for society when a HUGE number of people over 65 are living on $13,940 in social security and less than $45,000 in savings. How much can they make working part time at Walmart or McDonalds?

If the facts you're stating are correct, and these folks don't have access to pension plans, then they will have no choice but to continue working. That doesn't necessarily mean they have to work at a Walmart or McDonalds. I've recently been reading many articles that suggest corporate jobs will be searching for folks to fill them, and corporations are ever more willing to consider seniors for these jobs.

2old


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Author: RetiredVermonter Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 49766 of 76102
Subject: Re: Coming down the pike Date: 2/5/2006 6:16 AM
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teedup1:

Kids today EXPECT way too much and that's the parents' fault! Don't let them back in the house once they've left, and don't give financial help if you can't afford to. If parents taught them right, kids will be responsible for their actions. Their irresponsibility is your own fault...and don't expect me to ante up for it.

Sadly there is an element of truth there!

We're retired and living mainly on SS -- because we planned that we could. However, we also have IRA's and a small pension to fall back on, when or if needed.

All of our kids were told, straight out, that they were expected to work, to be independent, and not expect a lot of help from us, or much of a benefit when we die, either. Today, they all are saving for their own retirement, they all work and have families fo their own, and they all are still very close to us.

"Tough love" works. Too bad a lot of parents are idiots and spoil their kids forever, but a lot of the parents also spend like idiots, themselves, so what do you expect?

T'ain't gonna be pretty in a few decades, methinks, but we'll likely be dead and gone by then, and we did our best to take care of ourselves AND the kids.

Vermonter

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Author: RetiredVermonter Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 49767 of 76102
Subject: Re: Coming down the pike Date: 2/5/2006 6:24 AM
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singinforfences:


Both of my parents (now divorced) have never earned more than modest incomes and never saved a dime for retirement despite being (otherwise) pretty intelligent people. Now that they are knocking on the door of retirement age, they have no idea how they are going to get by should they live considerably longer than they are able to work.

Please forgive me for saying this, but I do NOT think they were "pretty intelligent people" to do what they did! It's hard to imagine anyone approaching retirement without even thinking a bit about how they are going to make it!

In our case, I lost my job at age 58, and she had to leave her job to help care for her ill mom then, too, so "retirement" hit us even earlier than expected. We had planned some, though, and worked it through together. I pulled a bit from my IRA starting at 59-1/2, played the market (with a bit of success, within my IRA, to avoid capital gains), and did some consulting until we hit 62, when we started SS. Her SS, by the way, is about half of mine, because she applied as my spouse, and I suspect your mom or dad (whoever earned less) may be able to do the same thing, but they need to check with SS.

Point is, if they really are "pretty intelligent people", they'd better start doing some serious thinking about the future -- fast. I wish them (and you) luck,.

Vermonter


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Author: TVKFool Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 49798 of 76102
Subject: Re: Coming down the pike Date: 2/6/2006 10:43 AM
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Frankly, if folks aren't responsible enough to save more than $45K over their working live, then I don't really give a hoot what happens to them in retirement.

Problem is that they saved way more than $45k for their retirement. It's called social security and they take part of your paycheck to save for your retirement.

I think it's incredibly irresponsible on the side of the government to borrow money from SS and to not realize that they're going to have to pay it back.
Sure they say there are going to be more retirees than working people. However for so many years it was the other way around and there had to be a surplus. Whatever happened to that surplus?

As a member of the younger generation, that makes me incredibly angry. On one hand I have to pay for the retirement of baby boomers and on the other save for my own retirement. I fully realize that SS is not sticking around for my retirement.

You blame all those folks that took the SS for granted, but people tend to take a lot of government services for granted. If the roads went unfixed how many people would have cars that would be capable of travelling(oh how the suv owners will laugh then)? If there were no schools how many people would even know what to do with their own children? If troops bent on taking your house would land in your backyard, would you know how to fight them off? Yet you blame baby boomers for relying on something that they thought was as solid as our school system.

TVK



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Author: swinginforfences Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 49824 of 76102
Subject: Re: Coming down the pike Date: 2/7/2006 1:37 PM
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Please forgive me for saying this, but I do NOT think they were "pretty intelligent people" to do what they did! It's hard to imagine anyone approaching retirement without even thinking a bit about how they are going to make it!
_________________________________________


You're right - certainly on that front. What I meant was that from an 'IQ' standpoint, they probably are smarter than the average bear. I have no idea what they were thinking all those years about how they would fund their retirement (answer - they weren't). They were never in high paying jobs but were never frivilous consumers either. I guess they expected that social security would be adequate. I'm doing my best to make sure my wife and I are taken care of in retirement - and I'd love to retire a bit early and enjoy life more. I only wish I had figured out sooner that I needed to force them to save for this - i.e. the child becomes the parent - and that's never a good spot to be in.

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Author: TurkeyBreath Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 49827 of 76102
Subject: Re: Coming down the pike Date: 2/7/2006 8:57 PM
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... They were never in high paying jobs but were never frivilous consumers either. I guess they expected that social security would be adequate...

At one time SS was adequate. At least it was for my grandparents and parents. Even with longevity genes, do debts, and houses paid for.

TB



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