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Author: Rayvt Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 75859  
Subject: Re: Hi gang... wow!!! Date: 9/17/2013 3:53 PM
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considering that the S&P account gets the dividends but the IUL doesn't.
You keep saying this, and I keep showing you how you are wrong.
Why do you do that?

Um, because it doesn't?

Google is my Friend.

Hartford Frontier Indexed UL:
* Index interest credited based on S&P 500® Index excluding dividends, subject to a minimum (floor) and maximum (cap) total growth limit
* Floor is 0% guaranteed and the cap is currently 12% (3% guaranteed minimum; not a guaranteed interest rate)

Penn Mutual Accumulation Builder II Indexed Universal Life (IUL):
* Indexed Account ... growth based on the performance (excluding dividends) of the S&P 500.

You know this.
I *think* what you are saying is that the company takes dividends into account when they set the cap. While this is undoubtedly true, the fact is, and they explicitly say this, is that they take all kinds of things into acocunt when they decide on the cap, and they can change the cap at their sole discretion.
And I *think* that in your mind you are equating them chosing the cap to them including the dividends in the gain that gets credited to the IUL account. It's not the same, and they take great care to SPECIFICALLY say that dividends are excluded.

Ray's numbers are inaccurate. We've corrected them so many times now, the only remaining determination is that the inaccuracies are intentional.
Oh, come on!
As for the numbers I put in the spreadsheet, I've danced to your & CC's tune. Starting dates, initial deposit, monthly deposit, expense/fee ratio, cap, floor, policy loan rate --- all that stuff. And the fields are all parameters in the spreadsheet, so you can plug in whatever values you please.

BTW, this is the first time I've heard anything about an 18% cap. But, okay, it's just a matter of changing one cell. [...sounds of typing...] And, yup, it changes the final value but doesn't change the conclusion.
For one particular run, 0%/12% final value is $760,700. Going to 0%/18% is $1,324,000.
The S&P account final value: $1,759,000.

Higher cap is better. But it still end up less than S&P.
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