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Author: slekim1 Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 308858  
Subject: Credit card debt Date: 3/13/2008 5:14 PM
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Hey friends,

Would appreciate advice on my debt dilemma.

My wife and I have accumulated about 30K worth of debt in the last 1 1/2 years since moving to CA due to some unforeseen dying pet expenses and other expenses. Currently we are just barely making enough money to cover monthly expenses and are just paying the minimums on this credit card debt.

I'm trying to figure out what we should do. We have about 13K in an IRA, a 401K, and a 403B and about 5K in cash for emergencies. Do I dare cash out the IRA, 401K, and 403B and pay down the debt? All three of these are in mutual funds (egad), none of which are beating the index fund average. If I don't cash out and pay down the debt, is it possible to move all of this to a Vanguard Index Fund or the like? And if I don't cash out, any other options besides just getting on a debt repayment plan and looking forward to a happy dance in the future?

I've called the cc companies to get my interest rates lowered and we are seeking additional income streams. Any suggestions about what to do with the cc debt until we start making more money. Thanks for any help.

Scott
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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 269458 of 308858
Subject: Re: Credit card debt Date: 3/13/2008 5:24 PM
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<<My wife and I have accumulated about 30K worth of debt in the last 1 1/2 years since moving to CA due to some unforeseen dying pet expenses and other expenses. >>



I hope you choose not to own any pets in the future. They are threatening the welfare of your family because you apparently choose to spend lavishly on health care for pets. If you feel you must do that, don't own pets in the future, or Fido may have had the best of care while you wind up eating dog food out of a can in your old age.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: jeffbrig Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 269462 of 308858
Subject: Re: Credit card debt Date: 3/13/2008 5:40 PM
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I hope you choose not to have any children in the future. They are threatening the welfare of your marriage because you apparently choose to spend lavishly on health care for your children. If you feel you must do that, don't have children in the future, or they may have had the best of care while you wind up eating dog food out of a can in your old age.

*No, I don't feel this way, but I wanted SP to see how ridiculous his views on pets sounds when tweaked just slightly. For many of us, pets are just another part of the family...

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Author: dswing Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 269467 of 308858
Subject: Re: Credit card debt Date: 3/13/2008 6:18 PM
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Scott:

Don't cash out anything. Retirement plans aren't for looting.

You have 5K in cash, you say. If your income is stable (or as stable as anything can be these days) you might consider drawing that down to $2K or so, and putting $3K toward some of your highest-interest debt. Of course if your income is *not* stable, I wouldn't do this either.

Also, try to forget about borrowing your way out of debt. It won't happen (I've been there).

Control expenses, sell stuff, research new income streams, and snowball your debts. It's the only way, really.

~dswing

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Author: DrBooa Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 269470 of 308858
Subject: Re: Credit card debt Date: 3/13/2008 6:46 PM
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I'm trying to figure out what we should do. We have about 13K in an IRA, a 401K, and a 403B and about 5K in cash for emergencies. Do I dare cash out the IRA, 401K, and 403B and pay down the debt?

Please leave your retirement money alone. If you haven't addressed the problem that is causing the cash leak, you will just end up in the future with $30K of debt (or more) and no retirement to suck dry to pay it off. Figure out how you can live within your means, first, before you raid your home equity or any retirement accounts.

All three of these are in mutual funds (egad), none of which are beating the index fund average. If I don't cash out and pay down the debt, is it possible to move all of this to a Vanguard Index Fund or the like?

You can probably roll them over into Vanguard--the best thing to do is call Vanguard and ask. They're very nice and very knowledgeable.

And if I don't cash out, any other options besides just getting on a debt repayment plan and looking forward to a happy dance in the future?

Well, there's getting a second job, there's examining your budget carefully and plugging first the fast leaks, then the slow leaks, there's selling stuff on eBay, there's eating out less often, there's carpooling to save on gas, there's oh, all kinds of stuff. Hang around here, we'll help you. Welcome to the CC board! :-)


--Booa

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Author: vkg Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 269471 of 308858
Subject: Re: Credit card debt Date: 3/13/2008 7:08 PM
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We have about 13K in an IRA, a 401K, and a 403B

Don't touch the retirmement accounts. Not only will you owe taxes on the $13K, but 12.5% early withdrawl penalty.

Debra

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Author: Windowseat Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 269481 of 308858
Subject: Re: Credit card debt Date: 3/13/2008 9:03 PM
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I'm trying to figure out what we should do. We have about 13K in an IRA, a 401K, and a 403B and about 5K in cash for emergencies. Do I dare cash out the IRA, 401K, and 403B and pay down the debt? All three of these are in mutual funds (egad), none of which are beating the index fund average. If I don't cash out and pay down the debt, is it possible to move all of this to a Vanguard Index Fund or the like? And if I don't cash out, any other options besides just getting on a debt repayment plan and looking forward to a happy dance in the future?

I've called the cc companies to get my interest rates lowered and we are seeking additional income streams. Any suggestions about what to do with the cc debt until we start making more money. Thanks for any help.


Hi slekim, welcome to the Motley Fool.

First, I'm sorry to hear that your pet died. I know how hard that can be.

I guess you've figured out that stripping your retirement fund doesn't get many votes here. The thing is, no matter how much you might regret having the credit card debt now, later on you'll regret not having the retirement funds.

I'd take about $2,000 of the emergency fund and put it toward the credit card with the highest rate. (Or if you have a card that is very close to the maximum, pay that one down and give yourself some breathing space). Then, if you can get an extra job for a couple of months, or sell some stuff on ebay, or raise some other money, you should be on your way toward getting rid of the worst of the debt.

Hope this helps. If you would be willing to post your budget and have everyone rip it apart you can do so, but it's not required.

Nancy
Ignore SeattlePioneer. He can't stand women or pets.

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Author: sandyw54 Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 269485 of 308858
Subject: Re: Credit card debt Date: 3/13/2008 9:22 PM
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I hope you choose not to have any children in the future. They are threatening the welfare of your marriage because you apparently choose to spend lavishly on health care for your children. If you feel you must do that, don't have children in the future, or they may have had the best of care while you wind up eating dog food out of a can in your old age.

*No, I don't feel this way, but I wanted SP to see how ridiculous his views on pets sounds when tweaked just slightly. For many of us, pets are just another part of the family...


I've had pets for many years and currently am allowed to reside with 3 dogs and a cat and I care about all of them. They bring me great joy and much love BUT an animal is NOT a person. I believe in spending reasonably for medical care for my pets but would never go into debt and jeopardize the future of my HUMAN family for any animal.

Sandy

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Author: sandyw54 Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 269486 of 308858
Subject: Re: Credit card debt Date: 3/13/2008 9:28 PM
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Nancy
Ignore SeattlePioneer. He can't stand women or pets.


I happen to like women AND pets. The difference being that I WILL (and have) spent thousands on a lady but not a pet.

Sandy

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Author: Windowseat Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 269487 of 308858
Subject: Re: Credit card debt Date: 3/13/2008 9:37 PM
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I happen to like women AND pets. The difference being that I WILL (and have) spent thousands on a lady but not a pet.

I was not responding to your post. I was responding to the OP.

I gather you are demanding that I leave this thread because paying for vet care is a stupid worthless waste of time because it's only an animal and you can always find another one.

Good bye.

Nancy

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Author: shirehobbit Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 269491 of 308858
Subject: Re: Credit card debt Date: 3/13/2008 10:12 PM
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Hi Scott! Welcome to the CC Board!

Please, please don't raid your retirement account to pay off cc debt. I did that to mine years ago and I deeply regret it. If it looks like an easy fix, be on the lookout for the catch. If I hadn't of wiped my out retirement account it would be so much bigger today.

We'd be happy to help you look at ways to start paying down your debt. If you could post your monthly expenses and your net income that would be a tremendous help.

Cheers,

Shire

P.S. Don't let Seattle Pioneer (whom I respect for his financial wisdom)get under your skin. He's like the "American Idol" judge, Simon Cowell, in the fact that he can be down right rude.

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Author: shirehobbit Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 269492 of 308858
Subject: Re: Credit card debt Date: 3/13/2008 10:19 PM
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I gather you are demanding that I leave this thread because paying for vet care is a stupid worthless waste of time because it's only an animal and you can always find another one.

Good bye.


Hey there, Nancy!

Life is way too short to let people get you so rattled. Take a deep breath and let it out. Repeat until you are feeling calm. Remember, you can always put the OP on that list that blocks their posts from your sight.

Sincerely,

Shire

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Author: Foolishchic365 One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 269493 of 308858
Subject: Re: Credit card debt Date: 3/13/2008 10:20 PM
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slekim1

This is been there, done that advise:

1)We ended up with expensive vet bills saving our pet - it was gradual and sort of a "little here, little there" progression. We didn't go beyond our means but I can understand how hard it is to make the decision to stop trying. I'm sure that not all of the $30k is from vet bills.

2) In former life I allowed ex to raid 401k - killer move both financially and on the relationship. The math was all wrong but my protests were not enough to prevent it from happening anyway. PLEASE take the advise given by others too and don't compound your problem by paying taxes and penalty on that money - frequently it can be more expensive than the cost of the interest being paid on cc debt, not to mention the "starting over" factor.

3) Take an honest (honesty can be painful-just do it) assessment of where your money goes and agree that, no matter what, you will do without the unnecessaries until the debt is gone. Do allow yourself a little "fun" money so you aren't deprived or you will fail. I get the sense from your situation because if doing without fun was an ok way to live you would probably not be the debt.

4) I agree with the reduce efund, pay off high interest cc as others suggested.

5) Consider coupons (I saved $27 on last trip, that's not common), sell things on ebay or take to stuff to consignment, 2nd job that is only used for debt, car pool(?), trade out expensive 2nd car for less expensive until debt is gone, no more shopping for entertainment.

You can do this. I did not have $30k in debt but enough at one time in my life that I learned hard lessons and made a committment to myself about debt in the future that no circumstance, person, event, ANYTHING has been able to undo.

Good luck - we're all pulling for you!

FC365

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Author: shirehobbit Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 269494 of 308858
Subject: Re: Credit card debt Date: 3/13/2008 10:27 PM
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By the way, I didn't learn from my mistake when I cashed in my 401(k) to pay off my credit card debt. I later racked up the debt again to an even higher amount.

You mentioned that not all your debt was due to trying to save your pet. What helped me to see where the money was going in my life was to write down every cent I spent for 30 days. What an eyeopener!

Shire

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Author: raetsu Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 269495 of 308858
Subject: Re: Credit card debt Date: 3/13/2008 10:31 PM
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We have about 13K in an IRA, a 401K, and a 403B

Don't touch the retirmement accounts. Not only will you owe taxes on the $13K, but 12.5% early withdrawl penalty.


Not only will you pay the penalty but 10% in TAXES too.

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Author: vkg Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 269498 of 308858
Subject: Re: Credit card debt Date: 3/13/2008 11:22 PM
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Not only will you pay the penalty but 10% in TAXES too.

No, federal and state taxes are at the taxpayers highest rate. The combination will be higher than 10%.

Debra

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 269500 of 308858
Subject: Re: Credit card debt Date: 3/14/2008 12:24 AM
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<<Scott:

Don't cash out anything. Retirement plans aren't for looting.

You have 5K in cash, you say. If your income is stable (or as stable as anything can be these days) you might consider drawing that down to $2K or so, and putting $3K toward some of your highest-interest debt. Of course if your income is *not* stable, I wouldn't do this either.

Also, try to forget about borrowing your way out of debt. It won't happen (I've been there).

Control expenses, sell stuff, research new income streams, and snowball your debts. It's the only way, really.

~dswing
>>


Yes, it is. Because this family apparently chose to spend lavishly on medical treatment for a pet, the family now must confront the need to live a frugal and penurious life until the financial damage is cured.


That's the reality of pet ownership if people follow that kind of value scheme. If they do, then the decision on owning a pet should be considered not based on the cost of buying or feeding a pet, but on the risk of paying $20,000 or so to a vet a few years down the line.

For a lot of people, that is an expense they cannot reasonably afford. The proper decision for such people is to NOT BUY THE PET IN THE FIRST PLACE. You can't afford it, and you risk damaging your family if you do.


You will notice that in my post I suggested that the OP not buy pets in the future because of the risk of further damage to the family finances. I think that is advice that is both reasonable and prudent.


Does anyone think this family should subject themselves to the risk of ANOTHER round of such expenses, after having been wounded by the first round?



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: DrBooa Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 269501 of 308858
Subject: Re: Credit card debt Date: 3/14/2008 1:05 AM
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Nancy
Ignore SeattlePioneer. He can't stand women or pets.

---------------------------------------------------

I happen to like women AND pets. The difference being that I WILL (and have) spent thousands on a lady but not a pet.

Sandy


What if the lady is a tramp? :-)

Sorry, couldn't resist. Just kidding.


--Booa (head full of cute girl cocker spaniels and attractive, rough and tumble mutts from the streets)

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Author: DrBooa Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 269502 of 308858
Subject: Re: Credit card debt Date: 3/14/2008 1:15 AM
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Do you honestly think $20,000 of their expenses is pet costs? They moved to California--moving here from almost anywhere takes a huge adjustment, because it is so freakin' expensive here. Not to mention gas prices are at nosebleed levels, and you sit in traffic so much out here, distance is kind of useless measure. Car costs are higher, and that's just one factor.

My guess is the pet costs top out at $5000, and are probably more on the order of $2000. I could be wrong, but I don't really think the pets are the culprit here.


--Booa

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 269503 of 308858
Subject: Re: Credit card debt Date: 3/14/2008 1:24 AM
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<<I hope you choose not to have any children in the future. They are threatening the welfare of your marriage because you apparently choose to spend lavishly on health care for your children. If you feel you must do that, don't have children in the future, or they may have had the best of care while you wind up eating dog food out of a can in your old age.
>>


Very wise advice --- but I recommend against marriage too, at least for men.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: bingocards Three stars, 500 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 269506 of 308858
Subject: Re: Credit card debt Date: 3/14/2008 6:12 AM
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Different strokes for different folks, but personally I'm hoping to retire early precisely so I can get to the important business of using my savings to spoil my grandkids, meddle good-naturedly in the lives of my beloved grown children, and exasperate my wife by continuing all the bad habits I had previously justified by being too tired after work to correct. (I'm thinking "never cleans after himself" is a little cliched and might be played out by the time I'm 55, so it might have to be "still hasn't reprogrammed the AI on the flying car despite having promised to do so for the last 3 years".)

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Author: Gingko100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 269507 of 308858
Subject: Re: Credit card debt Date: 3/14/2008 8:18 AM
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People, people - tangential nonsense about pets and marriage is beside the point here. OK, you all would or wouldn't have a pet and would or wouldn't spend for vet bills. Dandy. Can we set that aside? The OP asked how to dig themselves out.

To get back to the main Q here...

No, raising the retirement accounts is most definitely not a good idea. Aside from the fact it won't solve the core problem, the taxes and penalties would leave you with much less to throw at the debt than you think. And those would be due NEXT tax year, when you may or may not have set aside the $ for them. I would concur with the suggestion that you can pay down the debt with a disciplined payoff plan.

People here have successfully paid off way more than this. if you start tracking your expenses, understand exactly where your money is going, and direct all discretionary $ at the debt it will get paid down. Once you have that budget, you may find that you need additional income - a PT job, selling stuff on e-bay, etc could give you some momentum here. Tracking actual expenditures will also help you be honest about where the money is going. Often people think they spend $X on groceries, $Y on entertainment, $Z on phones...and then they find out what they really spend is much different. If you don't start with a budget that is REAL and has less outgo than income the problem won't go away...

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Author: Foolishchic365 One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 269513 of 308858
Subject: Re: Credit card debt Date: 3/14/2008 9:21 AM
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Just a quick point for SP - I don't think the OP gave any indication that another pet would be added to the family anytime soon. Let's stop beating them up about that. Let's give suggestions to solve the problem as it exists now.

OP - I had another thought - if hubby is most concerned about being responsible for your cc debt, the real solution is to agree to pay off the debt and not accummulate more. If you do that, would a post nup still be needed? Why not give that committment to him as an anniversary gift?

If you can't/won't get out of the cc debt please see an attorney for all legal documents. I was told one time that some attorneys really like it when people DIY legal documents. The fee to complete the documents with an attorney is not nearly as profitable for the attorney as the fees incurred to defend or challenge the document when relationships go south.

FC365

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Author: exeter17 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 269515 of 308858
Subject: Re: Credit card debt Date: 3/14/2008 9:26 AM
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Do I dare cash out the IRA, 401K, and 403B

+++++++++++++++++++++++
In a word: never
IN two words: definitely not
In three words: are you insane?

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Author: sandyw54 Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 269519 of 308858
Subject: Re: Credit card debt Date: 3/14/2008 10:39 AM
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I was not responding to your post. I was responding to the OP.

I knew exactly who you were responding to. I was just commenting and making it clear that I like women and pets.


I gather you are demanding that I leave this thread

Where did I say that?? You happen to be one of my favorites.


paying for vet care is a stupid worthless waste of time

Not at all. Just going into debt for vet care is stupid.


it's only an animal and you can always find another one.

It's only an animal when compared to a person and yes......you CAN always find another one. I've lost many pets and cried with my sons and wife over them but in no way did it compare to the grief I felt over burying my parents and 2 children. And I can't find another parent or child.


Sandy...who didn't realize that stating my opinion meant that someone else had to leave a thread.

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Author: cattleman22 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 269522 of 308858
Subject: Re: Credit card debt Date: 3/14/2008 11:52 AM
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I hope you choose not to have any children in the future. They are threatening the welfare of your marriage because you apparently choose to spend lavishly on health care for your children. If you feel you must do that, don't have children in the future, or they may have had the best of care while you wind up eating dog food out of a can in your old age.

*No, I don't feel this way, but I wanted SP to see how ridiculous his views on pets sounds when tweaked just slightly. For many of us, pets are just another part of the family...



The only ridiculous thing was your post equating pets to human children. In cases where pet health care is so extremely expensive, it seems far better to humanely put the pet down than endanger your financial future.



c

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Author: jeffbrig Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 269526 of 308858
Subject: Re: Credit card debt Date: 3/14/2008 1:28 PM
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My intention wasn't to equate the two. Rather, it was a tongue-in-cheek attempt to poke fun at SP's sometimes harsh views. Unfortunately, it steered the thread a whole different direction.

To the OP, I apologize for derailing your thread. Maybe now we can get back to talking about actually dealing with the CC debt, as opposed to arguing about how you got there.

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Author: bdgf06 Two stars, 250 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 269528 of 308858
Subject: Re: Credit card debt Date: 3/14/2008 1:39 PM
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Welcome to the board!

A few thoughts:

1. Never raid your retirement funds for any reason. Not only because of all the other factors already mentioned (starting over factor, tax issues, etc.) That will not correct the behavior or bad spending habits, also remember this is one of the few "safe harbors" for your money. That is, nothing short of an IRS levy or certain divorce decrees can garnish (in certain states) or otherwise legally force you to withdraw from your retirement funds. Short of this, you should never touch any of it until you retire or age 70.5, whatever happens first.

2. List all of your debts, including interest rates, limits, Minimum payments, etc. This will help you organize your house of cards to both help keep you on track and get a lot of good advice from this board. After you do this, rinse and repeat with your income/expenses (spending plan/budget, whatever you want to call it).

3. Keep your E-fund at a reasonable and comfortable level for you (you and your wife should discuss that, but at least $2k of your $5k) and put the rest toward the highest rate debt.

4. Stick to the positives, do not dwell on negatives to remain productive. Most people who initially post here have no E-Fund and much less retirement funds, as well as a lot more debts (I have north of $200k myself). Work up a solid plan and plan your work! ;)

I wish you the best of luck! Thanks again for posting.

bdgf06

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Author: sandyw54 Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 269542 of 308858
Subject: Re: Credit card debt Date: 3/14/2008 3:08 PM
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Sandy...who didn't realize that stating my opinion meant that someone else had to leave a thread.


I'll try to put this to rest and make this my final comment on this thread. My opinion doesn't make anyone else wrong nor make me right. Opinions are very personal and subjective and sometimes very emotional. That applies to everyone. Shouldn't we be very glad and proud that we have the freedon to openly discuss issues?

Sandy....who didn't mean to bruise feelings......I get mine bruised all the time. :-)

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Author: slekim1 Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 269578 of 308858
Subject: Re: Credit card debt Date: 3/15/2008 12:02 AM
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Thanks Debra. I appreciate the advice.

Scott

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Author: tconi Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 269585 of 308858
Subject: Re: Credit card debt Date: 3/15/2008 10:15 AM
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but I recommend against marriage too, at least for men.

Wait.
Are you advocating for women marrying women then?

peace & recommendations
t

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Author: Fuskie Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Ticker Guide SC1 Red Winner of the 2010 Rule Breakers Challenge Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 269591 of 308858
Subject: Re: Credit card debt Date: 3/15/2008 4:33 PM
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This is my third round of FUL™ in the last 5 years. Of the last 60 months, I have had no income to speak of for 14 of them, nearly 25%. One of the things that keeps me going is that if I can get through the productivity stage of my life, I will have set aside the assets I need to be able to afford and enjoy retirement. I could get immediate gratification, albeit with a penalty, if I cashed out some or all of my retirement savings. But I would be paying for it the rest of my life.

Fuskie
Who without that retirement light at the end of a dark tunnel would still be groping the walls for direction...

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Author: DBAVelvet74 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 269603 of 308858
Subject: Re: Credit card debt Date: 3/15/2008 9:08 PM
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The only ridiculous thing was your post equating pets to human children. In cases where pet health care is so extremely expensive, it seems far better to humanely put the pet down than endanger your financial future.

Ah, but see, to me, we should be able to do the same for our human family members. I have had to put down one of my beloved pets, and have witnessed the death of another when I couldn't get them put down in time.

Sadly, I also had to hear my grandfather's suicidal comments the last two weeks of his life. He was always jolly, but once he had said his good-byes he was ready to die, but ended up hanging in there for two weeks with no food and his only hydration was a saline drip.

I do equate my animals with my human family members, but sadly I couldn't legally end my grandfather's suffering the way I could for my furkids.

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Author: ziggy29 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 269604 of 308858
Subject: Re: Credit card debt Date: 3/15/2008 9:46 PM
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>> I do equate my animals with my human family members, but sadly I couldn't legally end my grandfather's suffering the way I could for my furkids. <<

Isn't it funny? (Well, not "ha ha" funny, but odd funny.) I mean, I know we've gone way off topic from credit cards and debt, but this thread is irretrievably gone anyway.

Why is it that almost everyone agrees that if a pet is terminal and is suffering, ending its suffering through euthanasia is the "right" and "humane" thing to do, but many of the same people insist it's NOT right and humane for people in a similar situation, even if those people have indicated their preference to be allowed to die -- a preference and choice pets aren't even able to express explicitly?

#29

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Author: dianakalt Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 269612 of 308858
Subject: Re: Credit card debt Date: 3/16/2008 12:48 PM
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P.S. Don't let Seattle Pioneer (whom I respect for his financial wisdom)get under your skin. He's like the "American Idol" judge, Simon Cowell, in the fact that he can be down right rude.

Huh. I've been posting here for many years, and I have rarely if EVER found SP to be rude.

Sarcastic, yes.
Blunt, yes.

Rude - pretty much never.

But then again, I actually bother to read his posts and apply logical thinking to them, which most people don't do. So what do I know.

d

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Author: yeilBagheera Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 269631 of 308858
Subject: Re: Credit card debt Date: 3/16/2008 8:44 PM
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My mom told me that every talk by the Hemlock Society in her retirement community was well-attended.
Now she lives in Oregon


I don't know how to explain what almost everyone agrees and many insist.


YeilB
who remembers hearing about Outsiders who were raising rabbits to eat which appalled the Native Americans who killed and ate wild rabbits, but weren't at all sure about eating a creature one had fed and tended.

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Author: slekim1 Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 269969 of 308858
Subject: Re: Credit card debt Date: 3/20/2008 3:46 PM
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Thanks dswing. I appreciate the advice and the encouragement.

Scott

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Author: slekim1 Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 269970 of 308858
Subject: Re: Credit card debt Date: 3/20/2008 3:49 PM
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Booa,

Thanks for the help. I'm trying to plug the leaks and genereate some more income. And my wife and I are both working extra jobs. And I'll call Vanguard. Thanks again.

Scott

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Author: slekim1 Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 269971 of 308858
Subject: Re: Credit card debt Date: 3/20/2008 3:50 PM
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Thanks Debra. Sage advice.

Scott

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Author: slekim1 Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 269972 of 308858
Subject: Re: Credit card debt Date: 3/20/2008 3:54 PM
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Nancy,

Thanks for the advice. I'm wrapping up my expenses in Quickbooks and might just post. Not sure I'm that brave and I think I already know the problem--Spending too much money and not making enough money.

Thanks also for the condolences. We had our cat for 9 years and we had to care for him the best we could. That being said, SeattlePioneer is correct in that if we can't afford the expenses we shouldn't have a cat. And we will not be getting another until we can afford it.

Thanks again.

Scott

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Author: slekim1 Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 269973 of 308858
Subject: Re: Credit card debt Date: 3/20/2008 3:59 PM
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Shire,

Thanks for the advice. I'm considering posting my income and expenses.
I think I already know the problem. I took about 6 months off from work pursuing my acting career and we blew threw our cash reserves. We have gotten our spending under control and our income is increasing with each month. It's now just getting on a debt repayment plan and sticking to it. Still, may post the income and expenses just to get the advice. Thanks again.

Scott

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Author: slekim1 Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 269974 of 308858
Subject: Re: Credit card debt Date: 3/20/2008 4:00 PM
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Seattle,

I appreciate the candor and until I can afford another cat, will not have one. My wife mentioned getting another one this morning and I thought of your post. Thanks for the advice.

Scott

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Author: slekim1 Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 269976 of 308858
Subject: Re: Credit card debt Date: 3/20/2008 4:04 PM
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FC,

Thanks for the post. With trepidation of another post from Seattle, the cat bill was over half of the 30K. The rest was from auto maintenance and travel for deaths in the family and other unexpected expenses. And more than anything, I just didn't make enough money last year. Anyway, starting to turn things around and I appreciate the encouragement.

Scott

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Author: slekim1 Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 269977 of 308858
Subject: Re: Credit card debt Date: 3/20/2008 4:07 PM
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Thanks for the advice Fuskie.

Scott

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Author: slekim1 Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 269978 of 308858
Subject: Re: Credit card debt Date: 3/20/2008 4:07 PM
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Wish it were that simple Kahuna. I'm an actor and it's where I need to be right now. Thanks.

Scott

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 269990 of 308858
Subject: Re: Credit card debt Date: 3/20/2008 6:53 PM
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<<Seattle,

I appreciate the candor and until I can afford another cat, will not have one. My wife mentioned getting another one this morning and I thought of your post. Thanks for the advice.

Scott>>


Thanks for not biting my head off. I know things like this are intensely personal, and such editorial comment may not be welcome.


Good luck with the finances for your family.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: BklynBorn Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 269993 of 308858
Subject: Re: Credit card debt Date: 3/20/2008 8:04 PM
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dear slekim1,

welcome! thank you so much for your thoughtfulness in thanking each and every one of us. really.

you can say Thanks everyone! in one post if you want. that would be easier for you and for us.

keep hanging around here... i like your attitude.

very truly yours,

BklynBorn

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