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Author: impolite Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 308782  
Subject: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/15/2002 4:46 PM
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I want to, but I won't!

He complained long enough about not having access to money that I gave it to him, in the form of a cash-back card we would pay off every month, that he could use as his "spending" money. We had a heart to heart before he got the card, with me telling him the reason I was scared to do it was because he had a history of overspending. He promised he'd be careful.

$700 and three weeks later, it has become apparent that my idea of careful and his idea of careful are two very different things. ARGH! I had to actually not talk about it for a few days, just to make sure that I could speak without killing him, and when I finally confronted him, I had a game plan: no spending for three months, for either of us, until this was paid. He agreed, said he was sorry, and placed the card in the safe, where it will reside until he can be a good boy.

I thought all was fine, I wouldn't need that 2x4 afterall, then he says "Hey, we should get that garage door opener this month." Um, no, we can't spend anything until July, when the other card is paid off. "Oh, we can spend a little."

"$200 is a little?!"

"Well, you know what I mean - we NEED the garage door opener." Yep, that's right folks, the garage door is simply inoperable without it, don't know how we've been getting the cars in and out of there all this time.

"Please don't make me kill you."

Oh, I am so steamed! I feel like I'm trying to train a four year old! What should I do? I am thinking about only paying $75 a month on the card, so that he doesn't get too much available credit to use at one time, but that card is at 18.9%! Upping his allowance (again) doesn't seem fair either, although it would stave off another overspending attack for a while, since HE did something stupid, I didn't.

I'm not sure what makes me madder: that he did this, or that he did it and was so suprised at how much he'd spent (how can you forget $700?). Oh, the best part: we got the CC bill a day after I had bought some maternity clothes, which he had had the nerve to ask me if I really needed. Like going to work sporting a naked pregnant belly is an option.

impolite
I will not kill him, I will not kill him...
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Author: velvet74 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126775 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/15/2002 4:53 PM
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This sounds like you need to give him a small account with a debit card.

Then you can put his allowance in it, and when it is gone he can't shop anymore.

Kinda like the cards they suggest for college students.

And I would take the payments out of his allowance, not yours.

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Author: buckmizer Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126776 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/15/2002 4:54 PM
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About the only encouraging thing I can offer is at least he hasn't tried to work on the cars for a while. Or has he?

Fred

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Author: Windowseat Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126777 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/15/2002 4:58 PM
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I will not kill him, I will not kill him...

Want one of us to do it? I'll be unemployed as of Friday.

I like the debit card idea, if you think he's capable of subtracting. And I can't wait to see what toy he wants after the garage opener.

Nancy
do you pay travel expenses for a job like this?

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Author: mlk58 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126778 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/15/2002 4:58 PM
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In our house we both have our allowances, and when it's gone, it's gone. It's not always fun, but it makes life smooth and it keeps the cash flow predictable.

We also have a "home improvement/maintenance" account for stuff like garage doors. So if DH wants a garage door, all I have to do is say "it costs $200 and we only have $100 in the fund," or the garage door costs $200, we have $500, but we agreed that we were saving for a new sprinkler system. Are you willing to postpone the sprinkler system so you can have the garage door?"

Sounds like it's time for your DH to learn about choices and delayed gratification.

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Author: Patzer Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126780 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/15/2002 5:06 PM
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$700 and three weeks later, it has become apparent that my idea of careful and his idea of careful are two very different things. ARGH! I had to actually not talk about it for a few days, just to make sure that I could speak without killing him, and when I finally confronted him, I had a game plan: no spending for three months, for either of us, until this was paid. He agreed, said he was sorry, and placed the card in the safe, where it will reside until he can be a good boy.

I thought all was fine, I wouldn't need that 2x4 afterall, then he says "Hey, we should get that garage door opener this month." Um, no, we can't spend anything until July, when the other card is paid off. "Oh, we can spend a little."

"$200 is a little?!"

"Well, you know what I mean - we NEED the garage door opener."


It sounds like he's related to my wife. That's exactly the kind of thing she would do--agree that we need to limit spending, but never realize that the limit should apply to the next big purchase she convinces herself that she needs. I haven't kept a log, but I think the shortest elapsed time between a verbal agreement to limit and a statement that we need some big purchase is about two hours.

Some people should not have credit cards. DW is one. I suspect your hubby is another. I'd rather DW didn't even have a debit card, but that's a political battle I have lost.

The only answer I know of is, "You have access to $X per month. Your obligations, as I see them, are [list] which comes to $Y per month. You have $X-$Y to spend as you choose. If you want [new toy under discussion] you have to give up something else."

I've had this discussion with DW many times. Sometimes she has agreed easily. Sometimes she claims that EVERYTHING she spends money on is a need. It's much more dangerous when she agrees, because she is likely to say, "I'll get X and pay for it by not doing Y," then go do Y anyway.

You have my sympathy, but I have no good solution for you. As far as I can tell, it's a matter of judging when to preach vs. when not to preach, while taking what measures you can to limit the amount of damage he can do.

Patzer

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Author: Ralphieda Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126781 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/15/2002 5:07 PM
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It is still possible to overdraft with those, isn't it? That $25.00/transaction adds up!!

R

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Author: LuluB Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126782 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/15/2002 5:14 PM
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"Well, you know what I mean - we NEED the garage door opener."

Really? How do you open the door now? Sounds like a WANT to me.

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Author: frissy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126786 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/15/2002 5:21 PM
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It is still possible to overdraft with those, isn't it? That $25.00/transaction adds up!!

I like the idea of a Visa Buxx Card for the hubby.

You have a baby on the way, he needs to grow up a little.

If I kill your husband, will you kill my mother? She didn't save her tax refund this year (again). She spent it $20 bucks here, $50 there, instead of putting it towards an emergency fund.

Heck, I'd settle for her putting it towards a retirement fund. I don't know how much longer she thinks she can continue to work, even if she did drop 100 pounds this past year.

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Author: shfrank Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126787 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/15/2002 5:23 PM
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Want one of us to do it? I'll be unemployed as of Friday.

Nancy!?! I missed this, what happened? I thought you were set through the summer!

Susan :^0

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Author: Windowseat Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126789 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/15/2002 5:29 PM
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Want one of us to do it? I'll be unemployed as of Friday.

Nancy!?! I missed this, what happened? I thought you were set through the summer!


We ran out of work.

Do any of you work for giant law firms? Do you have eighty or ninety boxes of documents that need to be dealt with? Could you send them to us?

Please?

Nancy
let's see: Update Resume, go to Unemployment office, sign up with temp agencies, talk with boss about summarizing depositions on a freelance basis, get haircut. I think that's the list.

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Author: Windowseat Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126790 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/15/2002 5:32 PM
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If I kill your husband, will you kill my mother?

I keep having these visions: a murder takes place, and the cops show up here looking for names and addresses.

Nancy
who suspects there would be a mass migration

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Author: Fallout2Queen Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126792 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/15/2002 6:06 PM
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Oh, I am so steamed! I feel like I'm trying to train a four year old! What should I do? I am thinking about only paying $75 a month on the card, so that he doesn't get too much available credit to use at one time, but that card is at 18.9%! Upping his allowance (again) doesn't seem fair either, although it would stave off another overspending attack for a while, since HE did something stupid, I didn't.

I'm not sure what makes me madder: that he did this, or that he did it and was so suprised at how much he'd spent (how can you forget $700?). Oh, the best part: we got the CC bill a day after I had bought some maternity clothes, which he had had the nerve to ask me if I really needed. Like going to work sporting a naked pregnant belly is an option.


Have you tried crying? Not weepy boo-hoo crying, but just letting him see tears of rage and utter frustration.

And ask him how much he's willing to cut form ihs allowance to pay off the $700.




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Author: TamarianG Big red star, 1000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126793 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/15/2002 6:17 PM
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((impolite)) Hang in there, mommy! Deeeeeep, caaaallllmmming, breaths...remember, it's much harder to dish out a sustained butt-whumping when you're hyperventilating...

You know, I have come to the considered opinion that, just as there are tin-earred people in this world who, no matter how much training you give them, cannot carry a tune in a portable stereo, there are some people who will simply never "get" money. It sounds like your DH may be one of them.

Take away the credit card. As upset as he is about not having access to money, he's pretty much proven that he ain't "man" enough to handle it. The instant he's got a credit card in his hands, he runs out and charges it up. He has not yet learned. He is not yet ready to walk the path of the Enlightened. He hath not earned whining rights about how abused he is. He hath, in fact, earned a resounding scolding from Fooldom regarding his inability to recognize his own inabilities.

Besides, upsetting pregnant women is a leading cause of early death in husbands.

Onward!
Tamarian
...whose husband has an ATM card linked to a checking account for his allowance, and that is it...and who uses good old fashioned cash herself due to a certain carnival attitude setting in whenever she has a credit card in her wallet...

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Author: fromagetorte Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126799 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/15/2002 7:00 PM
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I gotta be frank here...

While I admire your conviction at trying to dig him out of a hole, I have to ask why? He spent the $700, right? So let him dig himself out over the next four months. You've got enough going on being pregnant w/out having to deal with this.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him quit using a credit card.

Gena

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Author: Windowseat Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126801 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/15/2002 7:04 PM
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While I admire your conviction at trying to dig him out of a hole, I have to ask why? He spent the $700, right? So let him dig himself out over the next four months. You've got enough going on being pregnant w/out having to deal with this.

He's obviously incapable of doing so. It's like watching an incompetent electrician rewire a house. It might be amusing to watch, but if it's your house, you have to step it and stop it.

Nancy

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Author: fromagetorte Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126802 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/15/2002 7:07 PM
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He's obviously incapable of doing so. It's like watching an incompetent electrician rewire a house. It might be amusing to watch, but if it's your house, you have to step it and stop it.

Sorry, I should have clarified that with "and the card stays in the safe" or "debit card only".

Or do I understand this to mean he won't pay for what he's already rung up?

g

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Author: wrnglrjan Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126803 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/15/2002 7:24 PM
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it has become apparent that my idea of careful and his idea of careful are two very different things

You have just described my entire married life. Oh, this hasn't gone on every minute of it, but it's been a problem all along. Actually started before we were married, but I didn't recognize it until later.

The good news is there's been a little bit of progress in the last year. So maybe I can help a little bit.

First of all, the two of you have to come to an agreement on what is the "right" thing to do about money. That means you gotta show him all of it - the grocery budget, the 401(k) contributions, the clothing allowance, the vacation savings, whatever you've got. And, much as we all agree that your way is the right way, he has as much say in the relationship as you do, and if he thinks it's OK to carry credit card debt to get what you want, you're going to have to either convince him, keep your money separate, or compromise a little. (I've tried all three, myself, at one time or another.)

Once you've agreed on what is going to be done money-wise, you gotta figure out how. At my house, this is the tricky one, since DH has zippo self-control. He doesn't carry a credit card, checks or our joint debit card. He can't even manage a debit card for a separate account, because he winds up using it when there's not enough money and when the charges come through it's equivalent to bouncing checks. Not good. We also tried the allowance route where his allowance included gas for his truck, school needs, and whatever else he wanted. That didn't work, because he invariably spent too much on "wants" and then either I had to buy his gas or he couldn't go to school or work. So now we have a new system where all his needs are included in our joint budget and his allowance is purely for wants. So if he runs out, it's too bad. If he needs something that is in our joint budget, I give him the debit card and he gives it back when he's done, along with the receipt for whatever he bought.

The other thing we did is make his allowance period shorter. Now he gets a set amount every 4 days. It's easier for him to manage that way. I sit down with him regularly and help him track his cash flow. I remind him of upcoming commitments ("You want to go play golf on Sunday, right? Better pull out some money to do that so you don't get caught without enough cash") I get the cash for his allowance every couple of weeks and just dole it out.

Is all this a major PITA? Absolutely. Is it ridiculous that I have to go through all this with a 30-year-old man? You betcha. But it's working for us so far and I'm hopeful that once he establishes some habits, we'll be able to go back to the "honor system" with regards to our checking account and credit card. I figure we're starting at the beginning. He's getting an 8-year-old allowance. Once he's had a chance to learn to handle that responsibly, he can get a 14-year-old allowance, where he also gets money for gas and new clothes. After that, we'll see about the adult allowance where he has real responsibilities with serious repercussions if they're not met.

One more thing. I know you're not truly going to kill your husband, but you're (rightfully) awfully p*ssed. It sucks to go through life that angry, especially at somebody you love, and even more especially at something you have very little control over. I've gotten royally ticked off, too, but it helps me to realize that this is a problem for him. I think it's a problem in the same sense that some people have a drinking problem and others (including me) have an eating problem. It doesn't mean you have to tolerate it, but it helps to understand it, I think.

In this specific instance, I'd make him face the consequences of his spending. Is the stuff he bought things he'd normally have to pay for out of his allowance? If so, I'd say leave it on the card for him to pay off. Then reduce his allowance by 1/3 or 1/2 and apply that money toward the card. Let him pay the finance charges, too, since you know how much they are. Once it's paid up, his allowance can go back to normal. I don't think you should have to go without because of this. And I know you've already sat down and figure out a solution together, but I think you could tell him that you thought about it and it didn't seem fair to you.

You guys haven't been married that long. Be smart and really get this thing addressed soon. Don't do like I did and wait 9 years to get a handle on it!

Sorry this was so long ... I've just been there and know how frustrating it is. Hope it helps a little. :)

Jan

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Author: GlowWyrm One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126808 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/15/2002 8:35 PM
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I would feed him tuna fish sandwiches every single night for about two months. If he complains tell him that $700 would have bought a lot of steaks. Next time he gets the card...remind him of tuna fish sandwiches. haha all jokes aside...it's really unfortunate that an adult acts like that. I guess the only real solution is what was mentioned earlier--the debit card. Good luck. If it was my husband I would already have a hole dug in the back yard for the body. ;)

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Author: allienic98 Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126814 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/15/2002 9:55 PM
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impolite,

Don't kill him...just never trust him with money again.

I have a similar problem. When I first met my husband, he had 24 active credit cards...all of varying limits...all either within $5 of being maxed out or overlimit. When I first became aprised of the situation, he told me that part of it was meds for his parents (they were in their 70s and the prescription part of their insurance was maxed out by Aug each year...so he paid for their prescriptions from Aug-Dec) the other part was a previous significant other who had a daughter with physical problems (and a deadbeat dad) so he helped out with meds and doctor bills. Both very admirable things to be helping out with...my heart went out for him. Of course, I fell in love and decided he was worth taking this debt on...after all, I was good with money, right? What I didn't notice (or choose to notice, boy was I stupid) was the satelite dish, the 600+ movies, the magazines, the Disney pin collection...etc.

I've worked so hard to get these bills paid off. And I say "I have" because after he paid all his minimums and gas for his car, he only had about $10 each week left for spending money. We are now down to the last 4 cards...of course they are the ones with the highest limits...but nonetheless, It has been great progress. But, for the last year or so, we have been stuck. You see, I let him manage our bills for a year. What a mistake. The balances went back up to maxed out. A few were even over limit with fees to go with it. He would pay them late...cause "cc companies always give you 10 days or so past the due date before they charge late fees". (His words, not mine!) I discovered all this because one day I just happened to open my cc statement. It was hit with an overlimit fee AND a late fee. Needless to say, I have taken the reigns back over. He has now ruined my credit report as well as what he already had done to his.

But, the good news is....he finally admitted to me that he has a spending problem. (I think I had written a thread on here about his "problem admittance") If there is the tiniest space on a CC he can't resist buying something that he really wants. (again his words, not mine) So, I took away all his cards...his debit card...his cc cards. He has NOTHING in his wallet except pictures, his driver's license, and his allowance. He asked me what he is supposed to do if he has car problems on the side of the road...I told him "call me, and I will come and take care of the problem" Any question he posed at me I had the same response..."call me".

I also don't share the finances with him. I don't tell him that "guess what honey? such and such cc is down to $x.xx balance" That just perpetuates him wanting to spend. If he asks, I will tell him that we only have $x.xx space available on a certain card. But keep in mind that as the balances go down, I also get the credit limit lowered too...which does nothing for my credit to available credit ratio...but oh well.

Just to be safe, I have a "hidden" efund account (The monthly statement gets emailed to an email account that I have with yahoo)...and I keep the bank account drained. When the cc cards are finally paid off, I will raise his allowance a little and let him have 1 cc for his wallet. But you had better believe the credit limit will be no more than $500...AND the monthly payment for his cc will have to come out of his allowance. I will continue to "hide" all of our money. The future accounts for our daughter's education...our efund...our vacation...our regular savings...they will all be hidden. Everytime he asks for something or says he can't live without something...I tell him, well, the CCs will be paid off in aprox 2-3 years...ask me again then. When he tries to argue with me about it...or talk me into it, I just say "Honey, I really love you, but I want us to have a future...I'm sorry you think I'm being unreasonable...but that's life" (He can now say it with me word for word...and does! LOL)

The bottom line is that it SUCKS to have to live this way...it sucks not being able to share everything with him...this is supposed to be a partnership, right?! BUT, I love him...and if I want to be with him (and I do)...then it HAS to be this way. I do feel your pain and stress from this.

But, I'm still "Counting down to $0.00" in spite of his spending problems!

Allienic98

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Author: aktravler85 Two stars, 250 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126824 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/16/2002 3:18 AM
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"Like going to work sporting a naked pregnant belly is an option."

Maybe you'll get a pity raise.

Just a thought, Ak

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Author: impolite Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126838 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/16/2002 9:47 AM
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About the only encouraging thing I can offer is at least he hasn't tried to work on the cars for a while. Or has he?

Fred


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! No, he hasn't. ;)

impolite
steering hubby dear away from tools as often as I can

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Author: rah1420 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126839 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/16/2002 9:56 AM
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I've not gotten any ODs on the card. Maybe we're just lucky.

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Author: impolite Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126842 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/16/2002 10:11 AM
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You have my sympathy, but I have no good solution for you. As far as I can tell, it's a matter of judging when to preach vs. when not to preach, while taking what measures you can to limit the amount of damage he can do.

I have a few measures in place already (a hidden 1K here, extra 401K contributions there), but he's like wild animal: he can sense we are about to start doing well, have a little extra $$, and then WHAM! he pulls a f&*k up.

I am just struggling towards our payoff date (was Novmeber, might still be able to swing it, depending on how many writing jobs I get), because when the snowball money becomes available, I can do damage control much more effectively. Until then, I am trying to remember that I love the man, and I do actually want to be with him till death do us part, and I shouldn't really be the cause of that death, if I can help it. As Fred (buckmizer) said though, he hasn't worked on the cars for a while, so we are making progress in some areas.

impolite
"Why is the Pontiac's hood up?! DROP THAT WRENCH!"


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Author: kcmatt Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126844 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/16/2002 10:35 AM
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I just came over from the link that the MF put up on the sidebar. I just wanted to add that I can't believe he pulled that on you when you are carrying his baby. Man. If I pulled something like that with my wife when she was pregnant I would be laying next to Mr. Hoffa.

Congrats on keeping your cool, and good luck.

Fool on!!
Matt


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Author: Robbie12 Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126845 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/16/2002 10:36 AM
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I can definetly understand your frustration about charging up $700. Hoever, I think telling him no spending for a long period may just foster him wanting to have something. Everybody wants things. I don't know the full situation and am coming from a very limited perspective. However, it may help if he still has a few dollars that he can spend or keep each month. I understand about LBYM's but this may curtail his appetite for spending so much.

The one thing I am reading is that he is being treated like a child. He may be on the financial level of a child but I wonder if he'll learn if he keeps being treated that way.

I'm personally glad I'm not him and getting what sounds like the riot act. It would definetly create problems for me but I'm not him. This allowance thing would drive me nuts. It's the being treated like a child that would grind on me very quickly. I'm responsible for my money and nobody else is. Even when I make not so great decisions and I've definetly made some of those. Of course, now I'm here to learn how to make better decisions.

The talking about him like he's a child bothers me. I'm not married today and if I was aware of living under those kinds of conditions I would just stay single. Take this for what it's worth but try just praising him for the good decisions he makes just like they are encouraging with children. Yes, I'm sure he's tired of having to open and close the garage door and a garage door opener would make it so much easier. Acknowledge that and say okay, let's plan to get a garage door opener in August, October, November. You may already be doing that.

Robbie

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Author: Robbie12 Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126848 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/16/2002 10:45 AM
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Tuna fish sandwiches wouldn't work for me. I would just as content eating less. Anyway, if I didnt' want to eat tuna fish sandwiches I would just fix myself something else. Heck, I've been single most of my life and anybody fixing me any kind of food would make me happy.

Robbie

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Author: Robbie12 Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126849 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/16/2002 10:52 AM
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I owe, I owe so off to work I go. However, when it's they owe, they owe, so off to work I go has got to be in even worse. I can sympathize with you. I'm thankful that my problems are just mine and right now I'm not having to carry the burden of someone elses.

Robbie

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Author: ataxwitch Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126852 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/16/2002 11:27 AM
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Have you tried crying? Not weepy boo-hoo crying, but just letting him see tears of rage and utter frustration.

Tried it. Told Fluffy that his $30 here and $70 there had impaired our ability to pay our mortgage and buy groceries, which was true BTW. With the aforementioned tears of rage and utter frustration. I even threatened to throw his butt out on the street if he did it again. (Feeding sk84funboy is more important than Fluffy the Wonder Bunny. Such is the lot of a parent.) Didn't work for any extended time.

Now he has to ask me for spending money. And he hates it. But it's his own fault. He has repeatedly shown that he is unable to handle money. He has many other charming personality traits that make up for it, but I am resigned to having to leave someone else as the executor of my estate in the event of my untimely demise.

ataxwitch
*has plenty of spending issues of her own.

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Author: Catleen Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126858 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/16/2002 11:59 AM
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Impolite:

I think this system might not be the thing for him. I think that if I were in this circumstance, he would not have acces to any cards. And he would get an allowance for whatever he wants for the week, and if he spends it all, he can't tap any other sources and he doesn't get any additional money.

Clearly he can't tell the difference between NEEDS and WANTS.

Good luck, get a big stick.

Catleen

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Author: Catleen Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126859 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/16/2002 12:00 PM
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Impolite:

I think I would make him pay for all of this out of his money alone. Maybe it might teach him some sort of lesson.

Catleen

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Author: decath Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126870 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/16/2002 12:39 PM
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impolite,

Hello again! You corresponded via email with me a while back about the biblical principles of husband/wife submission. I rarely frequent any board except the "Retire Early" board since that is now the current focus of my financial journey. I came across your post by accident this morning via a link on the "Retire Early" board. The funny thing is that I was thinking about the email correspondence just a few days ago and was wondering how "impolite" was doing!

Now to the point!

My wife and I are 40 and currently working towards retiring early somewhere right after we turn 50 in 10 years. As far as our finances go, we currently mostly agree on how much to spend, save and invest.

However it was not like that the 1st 10 years of our marriage. After I read my 1st investment book in college, I was sold on the idea of LBYM and saving over 20% of income so I could retire early before 40. The love of my life was not in the same boat as me though. She spent money liberally and ran up credit cards with each purchase evaluated as a need. On the day of our wedding, I went from assets of $5000 to a negative $2000 without even adding the wedding costs to our balance sheet. We struggled back and forth until I finally had to take total control and remove all credit cards from her purse. She operated on a weekly cash basis for about 5 years while I paid off all consumer debt, paid off the cars, built up the EF and increased investing into the 401k and IRA's.

During those 5 years she developed financial discipline and I gave her the use of credit cards once again which she handles responsibly most of the time. If she overspends now (usually on the kids) her budget suffers until she catches back up.

I don't know what it will take for your husband to get it! Some people need unique ways to get motivated. In my wife's case, it was a combination of negative motivation (the humiliation of knowing that she could not control herself with a credit card) and positive motivation (continually discussing the merits of retiring while relatively young).

After my wife and got our financial life in order, we began doing volunteer financial counseling in our church to mostly couples and an occasional single. I am still amazed how otherwise responsible people who can show up to work, raise kids, obey the law etc… can't seem to control there spending habits. They generally have to have strict controls put on them on par with what a parent has to do to a 3 year old!

We did not have the net back then so I would copy articles from financial publications and leave them on her nightstand. Sometimes it ticked her off but most of them got read and it eventually stuck to her. I would try to give her materially that was relevant to whatever money situation we were currently facing. After a few months, we both would joke about certain articles that we would agree/disagree on. Her family had a good time ribbing me calling me the “phantom money nut”!

I still print articles for her now off of the “retire early board”.

Good luck and God Bless on financially educating him.

Decath


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Author: Imshaken Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126883 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/16/2002 1:34 PM
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Impolite:

Thanks for the laugh. Although I'm sure you don't find your predicament amusing. My wife's been trying to train me for over twenty-five years now with little success. You've graphically described some of her frustrations so well I might email her the link to your post. :o))

Anyway, with respect to what should you do? Hows about making several tasks to do things around the house that cost little or nothing to keep him busy. Paint that bedroom. Have a garage sale. Rake that yard. Weed those flower beds. Start a vegetable garden. Insist he clean ALL the grease and oil of of your car's engine. Rub mommy's growing belly with lotion so that when you go to work without maternity clothes you at least won't have any stretch marks showing. :o))

Good luck, and all the best with your pregancy.

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Author: joycets Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126886 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/16/2002 1:53 PM
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Those of you without garage door openers can consider...
we have no garage.
If every one of you with a garage door opener would send me $1 towards our fund to build one . . . . . . . .


joycets
lots and lots of cars, no garage.
(two run. sort of).

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Author: gippynet Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126888 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/16/2002 2:40 PM
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You have just described my entire married life. Oh, this hasn't gone on every minute of it, but it's been a problem all along. Actually started before we were married, but I didn't recognize it until later.

This was a great description for the most part of my married life with my ex-wife... needless to say it did not turn into something that could be worked out... I am not an angel on spending money by any means.. but on my second go at marrage I now am married to someone that is very strict with spending money, and lets just say everything is working out great... not to say that making a marrage an ex-marrage is an answer... but for some its an option... Lets just say its wonderful to know that when someone says that the bills are paid they REALLY are paid... my ex-wife was nice enough to tell me for months that everything was fine, we were paying bills and we even had a growing savings... later found that things were many months late to just about everyone we owed money to, and that the money in the bank did not equal by any stretch of the mind what should have been there from our income seeing as how none of it went to the bill collectors... she actually told me that she did now want to live the type of life style we could afford if we actually paid the bills... yeah I know I had to think about that for a sec before it hit me... After the cards were run up, she stopped paying them and spent the cash instead... fun fun... anyway... good luck all with spouses like this...

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Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126890 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/16/2002 2:47 PM
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Go to any bank (or credit union if you're eligible) and tell them you want a secured credit card with a $250 limit and a notice attached that, at the customer's request, they are to NEVER remove the security requirement. They'll set you up a savings account, take your $250, and give you the card. Let your husband have that card.

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Author: Catleen Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126910 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/16/2002 4:13 PM
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Impolite:

I left out this thought. What did he buy? Maybe you can just return the junk and have less aggravation for returning it.

Catleen

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Author: ElricSeven Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126926 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/16/2002 5:51 PM
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Do any of you work for giant law firms? Do you have eighty or ninety boxes of documents that need to be dealt with? Could you send them to us?

Where are you located and what do you do?

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Author: ElricSeven Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126927 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/16/2002 5:53 PM
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While I admire your conviction at trying to dig him out of a hole, I have to ask why? He spent the $700, right? So let him dig himself out over the next four months. You've got enough going on being pregnant w/out having to deal with this.

When you're married that's like saying, "The water's leaking into his side of the boat, let him handle it." I used the approach you mention and ended up with the same expenditure, but roughly multiplied by 50.

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Author: Milligram40 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126936 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/16/2002 6:50 PM
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Three little words that work in our house...

separate

bank

accounts

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Author: wrnglrjan Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126940 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/16/2002 6:59 PM
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Three little words that work in our house...

separate

bank

accounts


But how does this help, really? I mean if one person spends too much and can't meet his or her obligations, the other is still stuck.

"Oh, you'll just have to repossess his half of the house, because I came up with my half of the mortgage payments"

"Oh, it's OK, our kids will only be half-starving, since he spent this half this week's grocery money on CD's" or better yet, "no, honey, I'm sorry, but you can't have any dinner - you didn't come up with your share of the $$$"

"I'm off on my romantic second honeymoon, dear. See ya in a week. Sure wish you could afford to come with me."

It's just not that simple.

Jan
who wishes it were

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Author: Windowseat Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126944 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/16/2002 7:16 PM
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But how does this help, really? I mean if one person spends too much and can't meet his or her obligations, the other is still stuck.

It works in cases where both partners are reasonably responsible, but don't like to watch the other person spending money. Essentially, they work out what percentage each will pay of the joint bills, or they each take on specific bills [you pay for the utillities and the groceries, I'll cover the mortgage]. But both partners have to have a sense of responsibility to make it work, and they have to communicate when there's a problem. I don't think that applies in this case.

Nancy

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Author: fromagetorte Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126949 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/16/2002 7:36 PM
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Actually, I'm engaged to be married and have been married before, so saying, When you're married that's like saying, "The water's leaking into his side of the boat, let him handle it," I think maybe you're missing my point.

My point simply is this: why do you assume responsibility for someone else's screw up? Because you're married? Um, no. Cut 'em off and hand the responsibility back. If you continually take responsibility for someone else's screw ups, at what point do they need to bail themselves out? And why? Someone else (i.e. spouse) will take care of it.

I used the approach you mention and ended up with the same expenditure, but roughly multiplied by 50.

I'm sorry to hear it. Perhaps with more details on what and how you approached this, I could better understand where you're coming from. I don't wish to fight about this. However, I think my question is valid: at what point does an adult person have to stand up and say, "Yep, I screwed up and I'm going to take responsiblity for my actions"? When they're 70?

Gena

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Author: fromagetorte Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126951 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/16/2002 7:48 PM
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But how does this help, really? I mean if one person spends too much and can't meet his or her obligations, the other is still stuck.

It works in cases where both partners are reasonably responsible, but don't like to watch the other person spending money. But both partners have to have a sense of responsibility to make it work, and they have to communicate when there's a problem.

Beautiful. Perfect. It's the big "R" word.

When it comes to stuff like repossessing the house, that's one thing. I'd pony up his half in a second if our home was on the line. However, if DF comes home with a new plasma tv (his latest obsession), there is no way in H E double Hockey Sticks that I'm going to take part in paying for a purchase that is not only extravagant, but so clearly a want and not a need.

<rant>
What do you do when one is saver and the other a spendthrift? Someone else said it perfectly--no cards for him/her. Not debit or credit. No access to the checkbook. Hide accounts. If this is the only way to make sure my SO doesn't spend us into oblivion, then that's what I'll do. Is it sneaky? Yep. Is it underhanded? Maybe. It's probably less underhanded tho then going out and spending money on misc. junk just for the sake of spending.
</rant>

This hits a nerve because I've been here before.
Gena

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Author: allienic98 Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126953 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/16/2002 8:37 PM
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It is sneaky...and it is underhanded.....BUT

I, for one, told my DH that I was going to hide money from him because he couldn't control himself. And you know what he said? "Ok, if that is what you have to do. Get us where we need to be."

<rant>

Does he feel like I treat him like a five year old? Sometimes. Does he like having to ask me for things when he makes more money than I do? No. But...(there is that ugly word again) he has the same goals that I do. We want to live in a nice house...drive decent cars...help our daughter get through college...and retire at least by proper retirement age. If I don't do the things the way that I am doing them now, we will end up living in a shack...working until the day we die...driving a piece of crap vehicle that is held together with duct tape and doesn't run worth a darn...etc.

He has proven himself irresponsible with money time and time again. I think of it this way, right now we am paying $1200 each month for cc minimums and his car payment. When these are paid off, he could still get a very generous "allowance" and still leave plently left over for me to hide. Is he okay with that? Yes. Or at least he says he is. I guess only time will tell.

And if he isn't agreeable with this? Well, I hate to say it but he can get on the first bus out of here. Even though I love him dearly, and would be devastated if he were to leave, I AM NOT going to live in poverty because he basically throws money away. I have boxes of stuff sitting in my attic because there is not room in the house for them. Will he get rid of anything? No. He can't bear to part with his stuff. But we have lived here a year and a half, and he hasn't touched any of it since the day we moved in.

I am tired of my CC companies adding approximately $350 each month of interest. I am tired of losing my laugh...having to struggle to smile because I am not sure where I am going to get the money to put food on the table for my daughter. I want to be able to finish my degree (I only have a year left)...get a job that I really like (and I'd make a lot more money than even him!)...to come home from work and spend a relaxing evening with my family...and not worry...worry...and worry all the time. I am tired of being tired all the time.

</rant>

I'm sorry if people don't agree with what I am doing. If they think he should learn to grow up...learn to handle money. Think that I am being dishonest by hiding it. But, oh well...those are the decisions that were made...and so far they seem to work for us. I only hope that those that have such strong feelings against what I am doing never find themselves in a similar position.

Allienic98

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Author: Windowseat Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126954 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/16/2002 8:53 PM
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I'm sorry if people don't agree with what I am doing. If they think he should learn to grow up...learn to handle money. Think that I am being dishonest by hiding it. But, oh well...those are the decisions that were made...and so far they seem to work for us. I only hope that those that have such strong feelings against what I am doing never find themselves in a similar position.

I don't disagree, and I suspect that most people here wouldn't. You've obviously tried other systems, and they didn't work. Living in poverty is an option that neither of you accept, and DH can't be trusted with money. (I have one relative-by-marriage who tosses money around. I have no idea what her credit cards look like, but she shops in clothing stores I don't dare walk into, and she and her husband are retired. She doesn't need these things. She just likes the feeling that she can spend money).

No. Keep your course. Communicate with your husband about money matters. There may come a day when the light dawns, and you don't want to miss it if it happens. But until you're sure that he's on the same track with you, don't tell him where the money is.

My aunt used to hide money from her husband. It was the only way she could make sure the bills were paid. I only wish she had hidden more.

Nancy

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Author: Fallout2Queen Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126955 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/16/2002 8:57 PM
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I'm personally glad I'm not him and getting what sounds like the riot act. It would definetly create problems for me but I'm not him. This allowance thing would drive me nuts. It's the being treated like a child that would grind on me very quickly. I'm responsible for my money and nobody else is. Even when I make not so great decisions and I've definetly made some of those. Of course, now I'm here to learn how to make better decisions.


Great, but it's only your money and your future you're screwing up. Impolite's husband isn't just messing up his money; he's screwing up her finances and her and the baby's futures, too.



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Author: sharonl74 Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126957 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/16/2002 9:40 PM
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Hang in there!! Accept that some people are good at some things, and not so good at others. A marriage is a partnership so hopefully you aren't both good at all the SAME things.
My DH is great at earning lots of money, but thinks he should be able to write a check for whatever he wants, whenever he wants, as often as he wants, regardless of the cost of the item.
I have never been able to get a decent paying job in my life, but I can squeeze a penny until it screams (even though I am an impulse buyer at heart).
Once he had to go several months with NO allowance because we couldn't agree on a reasonable amount.
But after 23 years, he has mellowed out some, and I actually hear him trying to teach our 3 kids some of the same things about money that I tried to teach him.
We just agreed that for a peaceful and productive marriage, we would divvy up the tasks according to what we were each good at. He never worries about the bills, and I never worry about my car. (Sometimes, when I get in to go to work, I notice that he has even put gas in for me!! LOL)
Just figure out what he's good at, and divvy up that task to him.
GOOD LUCK!!
sharon

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Author: fromagetorte Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126958 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/16/2002 10:10 PM
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I'm sorry if people don't agree with what I am doing. If they think he should learn to grow up...learn to handle money. Think that I am being dishonest by hiding it. But, oh well...those are the decisions that were made...and so far they seem to work for us. I only hope that those that have such strong feelings against what I am doing never find themselves in a similar position.

Bravo, Allienic98!

I think the most important phrase in the above is and so far they seem to work for us.

There have been a lot of opinions tossed out to impolite regarding how to deal her hubby. The bottom line is that none of us has to walk in her shoes. I personally believe in teaching the "offender" to be responsible, but that's not always possible. If that means you've got to take what someone else might see as drastic measures, so be it.

No one is any more right or wrong if their approach works for them.

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Author: llisiraw Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126968 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/16/2002 11:50 PM
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He complained long enough about not having access to money that I gave it to him, in the form of a cash-back card we would pay off every month, that he could use as his "spending" money. We had a heart to heart before he got the card, with me telling him the reason I was scared to do it was because he had a history of overspending. He promised he'd be careful....

Oh, I am so steamed! I feel like I'm trying to train a four year old! What should I do? I am thinking about only paying $75 a month on the card, so that he doesn't get too much available credit to use at one time, but that card is at 18.9%! Upping his allowance (again) doesn't seem fair either, although it would stave off another overspending attack for a while, since HE did something stupid, I didn't.


Wow, you sound like the best wife in the world. You give your husband an allowance and promise not to kill him. I'll bet you're never condescending or nagging either.

I'm not sure what makes me madder: that he did this, or that he did it and was so suprised at how much he'd spent (how can you forget $700?). Oh, the best part: we got the CC bill a day after I had bought some maternity clothes, which he had had the nerve to ask me if I really needed. Like going to work sporting a naked pregnant belly is an option.

What a funny post. Maybe your husband could come on and post a "I will not beat my pregnant wife post" and then you could retaliate with "I will not ask for the house and car" and then your husband could respond with "I can't believe she posted this on the internet" and then in twenty years your kids could come here (assuming the fool is still in business) and post a "Our parents were so pathetic" story that the fool could link.

God I love listening to married people complain about their spouses.




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Author: KimShea Two stars, 250 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126970 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/17/2002 12:14 AM
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The one thing I am reading is that he is being treated like a child. He may be on the financial level of a child but I wonder if he'll learn if he keeps being treated that way.

Take this for what it's worth but try just praising him for the good decisions he makes just like they are encouraging with children.
___________________________________________________________________

I totally agree w/ your point, but the new daycare I'm taking my 2 year old to starting on Monday told me the way they like to discipline the 2 year olds is to mainly just praise the good things, so seems like your advice is kind of contradictory... If she praises his good behavior she IS treating him like a child. That being said, my DH used to try to lecture me about certain spending things, and unfortunately both of us have had a tendency to want to go splurge just when we've completely run out of money. It's like we would think, "well, we've can't pay our $400.00 student loan for another week and a half, so we may as well use the $200 we DO have on a big shopping spree" Anyway, if he lectured me it just pi#sed me off big time, and made me want to go buy something expensive and frivolous just to prove that I could do whatever the heck I wanted w/ my own damn money. Part of this for me had to do w/ having a super mega LBYM flat out tightwad father who used to buy the cheapest cookies you could find and then LITERALLY ration them out. If he saw me taking some cookies and milk to my room, he would stop me and make me show him how many cookies I had, and if it was over whatever his deemed daily allotment was, he'd make me take them back. It was rediculous. I love to defy absolute authority, so If DH ever tried to tell me I shouldn't spend money on something, I'd make sure I DID do it. (Can I blame DF for weight prob too???) Just kidding. Blaming self for both.

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Author: Azotic Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126974 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/17/2002 12:46 AM
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God I love listening to married people complain about their spouses

This isn't undirected complaining, it's the complaining of someone who has a spouse with what is essentially an addiction to spending money, and who's probably been similarly addicted herself at some point.

With the support of others who know what she's going through trying to dig out from under her debt and whose spouses have been through the same thing, she may be better able to find the strength to keep on working on solutions to the problem rather than just abandoning her husband to save herself.

She's here looking for support because she wants to stay married to someone she loves but is putting her quality of life at risk, and it's perverse to fault her for that.

-- Mark


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Author: llisiraw Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126980 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/17/2002 5:02 AM
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Binky the door Matt: She's here looking for support because she wants to stay married to someone she loves but is putting her quality of life at risk, and it's perverse to fault her for that.

No, it's perverse to give intimate details of your marriage problems to online strangers (with or) without your spouse's knowledge. It's also annoying when someone plays the victim and others buy into wholeheartedly.

Here's an idea: Talk to him or keep it to yourself!



Just grabbing my hat, folks.

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Author: ElricSeven Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126984 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/17/2002 8:15 AM
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Actually, I'm engaged to be married and have been married before, so saying, When you're married that's like saying, "The water's leaking into his side of the boat, let him handle it," I think maybe you're missing my point.

My point simply is this: why do you assume responsibility for someone else's screw up? Because you're married? Um, no. Cut 'em off and hand the responsibility back. If you continually take responsibility for someone else's screw ups, at what point do they need to bail themselves out? And why? Someone else (i.e. spouse) will take care of it.

I used the approach you mention and ended up with the same expenditure, but roughly multiplied by 50.

I'm sorry to hear it. Perhaps with more details on what and how you approached this, I could better understand where you're coming from. I don't wish to fight about this. However, I think my question is valid: at what point does an adult person have to stand up and say, "Yep, I screwed up and I'm going to take responsiblity for my actions"? When they're 70?


The same approach as in telling her it was her responsibility to get it paid off. The next time I checked, it had gotten worse. So, short of divorce (and presumably money isn't the most important part of your marriage and divorce isn't a valid option) you really can't truly disavow responsibility for the other's actions. Each spouse as an individual has the power to financially ruin the both of you.

I guess the other thing that many of these answers assume is that one's spouse is not a strong-willed individual with their own ideas, equally convinced that frugal one is being unreasonable. We all agree that not saving and carrying a balance is not only improper, but stupid. We, however, are the proverbial "choir." Most Americans, on the other hand, see absolutely no problem with carrying $8,000 average in credit card debt. You can yell all you want at your spouse about how dumb they are to have credit card debt, but when they call their friends and neighbors to compare their habits the DW finds that you are the crazy, unreasonable one who's obsessed with money.

I appreciate your answer, however, and if I were to have to get married again, these issues would be discussed upfront. Of course in my case, the issues were discussed up front, but BW (beloved wife) had a few errors of omission.

Circling back to my main premise, I believe then, that one has to take an active role to bail one's spouse out because the marriage is a single economic unit. Also, failing to supervise your spouse with the spending problem by just saying, "Your problem, you handle it," can be somewhat unwise. Of course, all of this assumes we have the higher moral ground, but there is an argument that carrying credit card debt is just a normal way of life.

Said my piece, sorry if its long-winded. Everyone here certainly has shown me a good bag of tricks as to how to manage such problems.

Ciao!
E7



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Author: rfr Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126994 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/17/2002 9:41 AM
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IMO, this forum is for exactly the type of situation Impolite is in. People have issues with debt and finances, they come here and describe the issues, and lots of other nice folks give them feedback and advice.

I don't think I know much about her life, I don't think I know anything about her husband, I just think we're seeing a person dealing with normal relationship issues and looking for ideas and support in doing so.

Rebecca



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Author: buckmizer Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126995 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/17/2002 9:45 AM
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<<Here's an idea: Talk to him or keep it to yourself! >>

Sounds like she HAS been talking to him. She's not posting on here to blab--she's trying to keep her sanity! The anonymity of the board allows us to do that. She's not naming names, you know.

I don't know if you are married or not, but if you are perhaps you are blessed with a person that you do not have much conflict with. This is not always the case. Some adults DO act like children and have to be dealt with that way. She trusted him with a new CC and he went out and blew $700 on it. What would you do?

I suggest you lighten up a little or go back and read more of impolite's posts. She, IMO, is one of the best posters on the FOOL that I have seen. I can imagine her being a sarcastic smart alec, but never a nag.

Fred





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Author: Fallout2Queen Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126996 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/17/2002 9:52 AM
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No, it's perverse to give intimate details of your marriage problems to online strangers (with or) without your spouse's knowledge. It's also annoying when someone plays the victim and others buy into wholeheartedly.

Here's an idea: Talk to him or keep it to yourself!



Anyone else smell a troll?



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Author: allienic98 Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126997 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/17/2002 9:53 AM
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<sniffing> Yep!

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Author: impolite Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126998 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/17/2002 9:56 AM
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While I admire your conviction at trying to dig him out of a hole, I have to ask why? He spent the $700, right? So let him dig himself out over the next four months. You've got enough going on being pregnant w/out having to deal with this.

The problem with this is I can't make all the bills on just my salary. So, if I were to give him back control (remember, he asked me to take control of it) of his finances, down to a seperate bank acocunt, I couldn't count on that money being around. He'd spend every single cent of it on crap, and manage to ruin his credit (again) while doing it.

As we have the joint goals of buying a house and starting IRAs next year, this is obviously not the way to go...how can I make all the bills on my salary and manage to save enough $$ for a house downpayment? I can't, it's impossible, because we took on those bills with our joint income figured in as the way to pay it. I can't (and frankly, WON'T) be totally responsible for the bills. Sure, theorectically he'd be half responsible for the bills, but in REALITY it would never work out that way. Ever.

So, the plan is to keep a tight grip on the finances until we get out of debt and buy the house. THEN we will reevaluate the situation, and see if there is a better solution going forward.

FWIW: I didn't mention in the first post that I am on an allowance also. That seems to have been a huge point of contention in the posts that followed.

impolite

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Author: Firefilly Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 126999 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/17/2002 10:00 AM
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Robbie,

That's all very nice about treating everyone as an adult and letting them deal with their responsibilities,,, it's even pretty easy if the person in question acts as an adult. Some people don't (want to) understand money, don't (want to) understand responsibilities and don't (care to) understand that sharing is not "I do what I want and you pay for it" because understanding any of the above would negate their ability for immediate gratifications of their wants.

If that is not being a child, I don't know what is and if the logical solutions posted are not acceptable and the unresponsible "partner" cannot accept the terms, there is no other way to treat them. If a "partner" is willing to risk their partner's wellbeing, their partner's future and in the case of the original poster here, his unborn child for his "pleasure of the moment", that partner is still lost in the self-love area of development and, if the responsible person actually has the patience and love to make up for the lacks in their partner in such an important area, I wouldn't debate how they manage it.

Personally, I didn't have the patience when it was made clear that my ex would have seen me in rags, with no retirement and living in a box before he gave up spending "his" extra dollar here, extra ten there, extra hundred he forgot about completely (actually, he would have bummed from our relatives,,, I refuse!),,, and I don't care for adopting a man,,, and I couldn't stand the stress, he is the first man I've ever yelled at in my life! You're right in that,,, single isn't bad after that,,, but again,,,

if the lady can stand it, I would question how unless you can offer actual assistance in a plan that limits her risk but allows her "partner" to still pretend he is a responsible being.

FF

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Author: impolite Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 127001 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/17/2002 10:04 AM
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The one thing I am reading is that he is being treated like a child. He may be on the financial level of a child but I wonder if he'll learn if he keeps being treated that way.

In essence, yes I am treating him like a child. He is treating ME like I'm his mother, and can fix all his mistakes.

So, as soon as I finish raising him, he'll get the CC back. ;)

impolite


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Author: Wolfshead56 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 127002 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/17/2002 10:07 AM
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Naw, just someone who still hasn't learned to follow the first answer in their profile interview.

herb

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Author: allienic98 Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 127003 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/17/2002 10:18 AM
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Sorry, you can only recommend a post to the Best of once.

ROFLMAOPIMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Author: EJWaits Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 127024 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/17/2002 11:40 AM
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While I admire your conviction at trying to dig him out of a hole, I have to ask why? He spent the $700, right? So let him dig himself out over the next four months. You've got enough going on being pregnant w/out having to deal with this.

He's obviously incapable of doing so. It's like watching an incompetent electrician rewire a house. It might be amusing to watch, but if it's your house, you have to step it and stop it.

Nancy


Time to buy and read "Codependent No More" by Melody Beattie. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0894864025/qid=1021649854/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/002-8106729-6810464. It also comes combined with "Beyond Codependency" by the same author.

The first comment above is the correct response. The second one only perpetuates the problem. Fixing the problem for him is like waiting until the incompetent electrician is done, paying him/her, and then hiring another electrician to redo the job.

He has an allowance. You have an allowance. From his comes the $700 to pay the card. No more card--just an allowance. It's the only way he will learn to manage the money. Action (spending) leads to consequence (no money).

EJDubya


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Author: fromagetorte Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 127027 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/17/2002 11:58 AM
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E7,

Nice response.

On the one hand, I agree with

one has to take an active role to bail one's spouse out because the marriage is a single economic unit.

At its ideal, a marriage is about working together toward common goals. But what if those goals are the same when discussed but wholly different in action?

My ex used to talk the talk ("Oh, I'm a saver!"), but when it came to walking the walk, he had an abundance of reasons why this purchase was a need. "Honey, I needed these new speakers/stack of CDs/latest thing for the car." In some ways, his spending addiction was a facet of his alcoholism. It was one more way to fill a void.

E7, you make an excellent point about preaching to the choir. From where any of us sit, credit card debt is anathema, but to so many others, it's a way of life! Your point about money not being the only hinge a marriage rest on is well taken. I guess what it really comes down to, at least for me, is knowing my DF would bail me out if I asked (as I would for him), and knowing that each of us is accountable for our actions. Last night, we had to have a discussion about a piece of software he wants to buy. It's $250, and he doesn't need it. (It might make some of his hobbies more fun or more interesting, but that doesn't really constitute need.) But we TALKED about it. When we first met, money went thru his hands like water thru a sieve. Now, he's far more cognizant of what he spends and why.

Anyway, now I'm rambling. Thanks for an interesting discussion.

Gena



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Author: buckmizer Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 127028 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/17/2002 12:00 PM
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<<He has an allowance. You have an allowance. From his comes the $700 to pay the card. No more card--just an allowance. It's the only way he will learn to manage the money. Action (spending) leads to consequence (no money). >>

That, or you can get a rolled up newspaper and then rub his nose in his mess.

Actually, I think that this guy makes men look bad. I'd like for some of us TMF guys to get together with him for a pick up basketball game and call him a "Mama's boy" for about 2 hours.

The only thing that I can productively suggest falls under dime store psychology. Are there areas in the household where he could do jobs (in or out of the house) really well? If so, praise him for that--A LOT! He might be spending because he feels shallow or insecure in some areas, and his spending is his last ditch effort of peeing on the wall to establish his territory.

Also, this treating you as his mother really disgusts me. It's like he's ticking you off to get attention. I don't know how I would deal with that.

Fred





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Author: fromagetorte Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 127030 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/17/2002 12:07 PM
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So, the plan is to keep a tight grip on the finances until we get out of debt and buy the house. THEN we will reevaluate the situation, and see if there is a better solution going forward.

Agreed. I didn't mean to imply that you should split the other expenses and try to pay all the bills on your salary. What I should have said at the beginning (can we rewind?) is simply this:

Stick with your respective allowances. Perhaps his needs to get reduced to deal with his latest $700 expenditure...but obviously that's up to you guys. You're going to have to be the responsible one when it comes to money unless he can learn how to better manage his spending habits.

Now that we've beaten this horse thoroughly into the ground..... ; )

Gena

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Author: Wolfen42 Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 127031 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/17/2002 12:31 PM
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No, it's perverse to give intimate details of your marriage problems to online strangers (with or) without your spouse's knowledge. It's also annoying when someone plays the victim and others buy into wholeheartedly.

Here's an idea: Talk to him or keep it to yourself!



Anyone else smell a troll?


<sniff> <sniff>
Yup... them thars good eatin' too...


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Author: Booa Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 127231 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/20/2002 1:17 AM
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impolite, I have a ton of old maternity clothes. What (ahem) size are you looking for? I will ship you a honkin' box. If you want. No pressure.

Sorry about your husband. I wish I really did have a big box of clue-by-fours in my closet, I'd send you one.


--Booa

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Author: impolite Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 127241 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/20/2002 8:14 AM
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impolite, I have a ton of old maternity clothes. What (ahem) size are you looking for? I will ship you a honkin' box. If you want. No pressure.

Well, I wore a pre-pregnancy 2 (yep, as in a single digit), which I've come to find out is really really hard to find in maternity.

And no, I have no plans to try to get back DOWN to 2. I was ridiculously skinny.

impolite
25 weeks down, 15 to go


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Author: johnmoni Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 127478 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/21/2002 11:37 PM
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"It sucks to go through life that angry, especially at somebody you love, and even more especially at something you have very little control over."

You love him and are trying to make things work. My question is, why isn't HE trying?
johnmoni

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Author: johnmoni Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 127479 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/21/2002 11:44 PM
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"rather than just abandoning her husband to save herself."

Why not? Why would someone want to live a miserable life, constantly bailing out a irresponsible spouse? Difficult to understand.

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Author: impolite Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 127494 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/22/2002 9:37 AM
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Why not? Why would someone want to live a miserable life, constantly bailing out a irresponsible spouse? Difficult to understand.

I only believe in divorce for two reasons: abuse or adultery. Otherwise, it's "stick it out, tough it out, you made a decision". I love DH with every thing I am, and he feels the same about me. He's worth sticking around for, even if that means I spend the first ten years of our marriage teaching him financial rules. After all, what's ten years out of a life-long marriage?

impolite

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Author: wrnglrjan Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 127518 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/22/2002 11:25 AM
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Otherwise, it's "stick it out, tough it out, you made a decision".

impolite added to your Favorite Fools list.

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Author: johnmoni Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 127566 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/22/2002 2:05 PM
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"I only believe in divorce for two reasons: abuse or adultery. Otherwise, it's "stick it out, tough it out, you made a decision". I love DH with every thing I am, and he feels the same about me. He's worth sticking around for, even if that means I spend the first ten years of our marriage teaching him financial rules. After all, what's ten years out of a life-long marriage?"

I admire your strength of character and tenacity. Good luck to you.

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Author: FloatinFool One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 127660 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/23/2002 12:44 AM
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Ohhhhh, impolite....

> "Otherwise, it's "stick it out, tough it out, you made a decision"

Really admire your commitment! Is there any way you can trim your regular expenses so that you can manage it on your salary alone if you REALLY have to? And then count on his share only/mostly for add-ons? I know it isn't fair...

This has been an emotional thread for me to read... I keep thinking our perception of our problems is shaped by our particular circumstances. I used to have 'discussions' just like this with my DH - before the stroke. Now I'm responsible for everything on just my (modest) salary. But I made the vow, so that's that.

If you really love your DH (and it's obvious you do), and if he cares for you too, I know you will continue to work this out.

Best of luck and peace to you,
FloatinFool




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Author: khamant Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 127763 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/23/2002 1:52 PM
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Oh, how do I empathize. And I have to share.

Maybe I am a bit of a control freak, but I like knowing the bills are paid on time without the $29 late fee on every card every month. His explanation of how he paid bills (before I took them over): "I always pay them eventually, they should know that by now. The $29 is stupid."

He's a really nice guy and very concerned that I have to worry about all the finances now. So, when he needed some extra money to purchase a headstone for his recently deceased mother (God bless her!) he didn't want to "bother" discussing it with me and burdening me with where to come up with the money.

So....are you ready for this...he simply went to our friendly investment planner and took $4000 out of his IRA. Yep, that's right. $400 in penalty plus taxes gone, just plain GONE. And why? We had more money than that just sitting in a bank account. All he had to do was say he needed it. (He knew about it, but thought I had that earmarked for other things.) Of course, I only found out by accident (found a piece of paper), well after the 30 day period we could have refunded the account, so now we're stuck with this.

I wasn't as nice as you, though. Remember how he didn't want to upset me with this? Well, instead, he had to listen while I had an all-out screaming, ranting, what-on-earth-could-you-have-been-thinking absolute fit! All of which was a useless waste of energy because it was all over with by then, a 'done deal' and there was nothing I could do but get over it.

I mean, I go around clipping coupons to save .50, 1.00, $2.00 etc and we just throw away $400+! Yowiee. But, you know, it's not money that we have to pay back like you have to, it's all just "on paper" so to speak, so I'm not sure he 'gets it' about why I think this was such a horrible thing to do, and the $400 we throw away now could be a month's income when we retire. How do I that across? He just says, "well, we'll just put more in later." To quote you, AARRGGHHHHH.

ok, I'm better now and I think we've both learned a lesson in communication - that is, it would help if we'd had some!

I hope your hubby also picks up on where the decimal point is, ie, the difference between $7.00, 70.00, and 700.00. It's so easy to spend it and so hard to pay it back.

Hey, do you have that garage door opener yet? (just kidding) <|;-}

Kate

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Author: Laura1968 Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 127766 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/23/2002 2:03 PM
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In this situation, might want to split your finances. It's a lot easier when you are dealing with this type of overspender. I say this because your husband spends like I used to spend. My husband split our finances. He would spend and save his checks and I would spend and save my checks. I owed him X amount of money each month for the phone, house payment, etc. Other than that, I was on my own.

After 4 months, I surrendered my credit cards back to him and took his budget a lot more serious.

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Author: JacKitts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 128037 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/25/2002 8:58 PM
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Sounds like it's time for your DH to learn about choices and delayed gratification.


Good luck with that. In 33 years, I have not been able to get DH to do that. Now we have the biggest casino in the world in our back yard and the mortgage (money he borrowed to start a business and buy a truck) is not being paid on schedule and I just found a CC with a 2250 balance on it. No delayed gratification there.
Jac

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Author: Windowseat Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 128039 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/25/2002 9:19 PM
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Good luck with that. In 33 years, I have not been able to get DH to do that. Now we have the biggest casino in the world in our back yard and the mortgage (money he borrowed to start a business and buy a truck) is not being paid on schedule and I just found a CC with a 2250 balance on it. No delayed gratification there.

Eek!

He's lucky to be alive!

Or are you busy planning his punishment?

Nancy

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Author: JacKitts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 128045 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/25/2002 10:36 PM
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Good luck with that. In 33 years, I have not been able to get DH to do that. Now we have the biggest casino in the world in our back yard and the mortgage (money he borrowed to start a business and buy a truck) is not being paid on schedule and I just found a CC with a 2250 balance on it. No delayed gratification there.

Eek!

He's lucky to be alive!

Or are you busy planning his punishment?

Yes, I am...We are going to have a sit-down and shut up conversation. I joined up here for the retirement lessons (I'm 59+) and found this discussion to be most enlightening. Learn from me---all our married life there has been money for vehicles. This business is just an excuse to acquire more trucks. DH owes big bucks on a 98 Jeep, also has two classic cars, dump truck, two pickups, and the CC debt and the mortgage. He is constantly talking about the next truck he is going to buy any day now.

I wonder how he will do this when I refuse to cosign? I already refused to cosign for the Jeep. I didn't have to cosign for the CC. Just found it by accident. My only debt is the student loans I cosigned for my daughter. Right now I am keeping up the payments. DD graduates next spring and promises to start paying them herself.

I am currently getting out financial record together for Rule Your Retirement. We will be sitting down with these and the current debts. For DH that should be punishment enough for now.... <chuckle>
Jac

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Author: magiquedarkayne Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 128115 of 308782
Subject: Re: Damn Damn Damn! I will NOT kill DH... Date: 5/27/2002 1:43 PM
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Well, Impolite, at least if you have gotten him Housebroken....ROFL. I have an identical situation here. The one comfort I have currently is that HER cc's are maxed so she can't use them at this time. sigh. Training a four year old would be easier. At least the 4 year old KNOWS what they dont know. The DW actually thinks she handles her finances pretty well(horrified look).

Magique "still trying after 21 years" Darkayne

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