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Author: BordLyron Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 5267  
Subject: Dead topic Date: 3/24/2010 12:55 AM
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Hello, hello, hello, is there anybody in there?
Just nod if you can hear me,
Is there anyone at home?

Come on, now, I hear you're feeling down,


End Pink Floyd


Well, so am I.

Byron
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Author: Donna405 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5222 of 5267
Subject: Re: Dead topic Date: 3/24/2010 1:13 AM
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I still check the Board; however, there has been no traffic. What would you like to discuss?

Donna

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Author: Donna405 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5223 of 5267
Subject: Re: Dead topic Date: 3/24/2010 1:19 AM
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Oh, I just read your interview. You have a rocking sense of humor. Just reading it made my evening. Keep it up!!!

Donna (who can't just watch TV; would rather read and let the background noise be subtle)

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Author: PKnudsen Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5225 of 5267
Subject: Re: Dead topic Date: 3/24/2010 3:51 PM
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Hello, hello, hello, is there anybody in there?

Yeah.

Is there anyone at home?

SS has taken a back seat to health care for sure.

Maybe Obama will fix it in his second term. He'd better hurry up as they've just started to draw down on the trust fund.


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Author: Donna405 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5227 of 5267
Subject: Re: Dead topic Date: 3/24/2010 10:20 PM
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I believe I have stated this previously. Although I draw SS, I am also the sole shareholder of an S Corp. As such, I draw a small salary (I have cut the hours I work until at least December, 2010.) Therefore, I (through my corp) pay FICA and Medicare taxes, and they are also deducted from my payroll check. I do not mind paying higher taxes for either of these entitlements.

The problem with our country is the fact that no one wants to pay extra taxes, but yet want all the entitlements which are funded solely through taxes.

Donna

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Author: BordLyron Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5229 of 5267
Subject: Re: Dead topic Date: 3/24/2010 10:55 PM
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Donna,

The problem with our country is the fact that no one wants to pay extra taxes, but yet want all the entitlements which are funded solely through taxes.


Hear hear! Now, about this so-called "trust fund" (admission: perhaps I should have put "so-called" in quotes also. My understanding of the trust-fund is that it is already spent debt, please correct me if I am wrong). How is it funded?

Note: I am not a right-wing nut, many of whose opinions I used to read here. I am, however, a realist.

Byron

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Author: BordLyron Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5230 of 5267
Subject: Re: Dead topic Date: 3/24/2010 10:59 PM
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PKnudsen,

My response to Donna applies to your words also. Any input? I am keen to learn as much as I can, since I am 47 years old & trying to plan for the future...

Byron

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Author: Donna405 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5231 of 5267
Subject: Re: Dead topic Date: 3/24/2010 11:34 PM
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The Social Security "Trust Fund" is a hoax. Unfortunately, the SS funds are not there. They have been borrowed by the US Government and in its place are IOU's. Now, the Government must pay up.

This is going to be very interesting in the next few years. Fortunately, I am "grandfathered", but I worry about all those baby-boomers who were born in the 60's. It appears to me that SS will have to extend the full retirement to 70, and lower benefits. In addition, tax MUST be increased.

Donna (who hopes to still be working on a part-time basis through her S-Corp even when I am 70, and whose father continued working on a part-time basis until he was 85.) As a note, he did not need the money, but LOVED working.

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Author: PKnudsen Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5232 of 5267
Subject: Re: Dead topic Date: 3/25/2010 4:08 PM
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Although I draw SS, I am also the sole shareholder of an S Corp. As such, I draw a small salary

You're lucky. My father worked well into his 70's and back then you couldn't draw SS while still working until age 72.

I take it by not paying yourself, you can accumulate cash in your corp. Not a bad deal!


The problem with our country is the fact that no one wants to pay extra taxes, but yet want all the entitlements which are funded solely through taxes.

True, but Social Security is a popular benefit. Even wingnuts have aging parents who get it, so I expect it will be funded one way or another.

I've often said that SS should be made actuarilly correct. The way it is, it gives the wingnuts an excuse to call it a ponzi scheme. But I'm guessing FDR wanted to start paying benefits quickly to make it impossible for the Republicans to abolish it, which they'd vowed to do.


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Author: ziggy29 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5233 of 5267
Subject: Re: Dead topic Date: 3/25/2010 4:24 PM
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>> True, but Social Security is a popular benefit. Even wingnuts have aging parents who get it, so I expect it will be funded one way or another.

I've often said that SS should be made actuarilly correct. The way it is, it gives the wingnuts an excuse to call it a ponzi scheme. But I'm guessing FDR wanted to start paying benefits quickly to make it impossible for the Republicans to abolish it, which they'd vowed to do.
<<

Nice impartial and objective analysis here. Strong work.

#29

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Author: PKnudsen Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5234 of 5267
Subject: Re: Dead topic Date: 3/25/2010 5:00 PM
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The Social Security "Trust Fund" is a hoax

Right wing LIE.

They have been borrowed by the US Government and in its place are IOU's

So, in other words they are invested in Treasury securities, which any investor with at least half a brain considers the safest possible investment.

What would you rather, penny stocks?

That said, the problem with Treasuries is not that they're risky, it's that they're too safe, and don't pay a good enough return!

I would prefer seeing at least some of the Social Security surplus invested back into the economy, in a universe of stocks and bonds. But suppose it's too late now. Still, if they got a better return, it would postpone the need for more taxes. You lot would be in favor of that, right?


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Author: PKnudsen Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5235 of 5267
Subject: Re: Dead topic Date: 3/25/2010 5:04 PM
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Nice impartial and objective analysis here. Strong work.

#29


Thanks. SS has been a big bee in my bonnet for a while.

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5236 of 5267
Subject: Re: Dead topic Date: 3/25/2010 6:32 PM
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<<The Social Security "Trust Fund" is a hoax

Right wing LIE.

They have been borrowed by the US Government and in its place are IOU's

So, in other words they are invested in Treasury securities, which any investor with at least half a brain considers the safest possible investment. >>



The problem is, what is the impact on the Federal government of cashing in these bonds?

The government doesn't have the cash to pay the value of the bonds, so they are simply going to issue more debt to replace this debt. When you have trillions of dollars in IOUs, will the government be able to issue trillions of additional dollars of debt?

There is a limit on the ability of the government to do that, and we are likely to plumb the limits of that in the years ahead.

In the years when Medicare and Social Security taxes were in surplus, they reduced the apparent Federal deficits, allowing additional spending. Now the revenue shortages are reducing that ability to spend, and that will continue to get dramatically worse as revenue shortfalls become actual deficits rather than actual surpluses.

So it's not a Republican LIE, it's an actual fact of life. It's already cramping the ability of the Federal government to spend, and that's going to get a LOT worse.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: PKnudsen Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5237 of 5267
Subject: Re: Dead topic Date: 3/25/2010 6:34 PM
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My response to Donna applies to your words also.

OK, see my other follow-up.

But to your point:

Yes, debt is always spent. Would you borrow money just to keep under the mattress?

As for the USA's debt, they can simply print money, or, create Federal Reserve balances which amounts to the same thing. I hope it won't come to that.

It's indeed a problem, but I believe a more prosperous, healthier nation can deal with it.


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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5238 of 5267
Subject: Re: Dead topic Date: 3/25/2010 6:39 PM
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<<The problem with our country is the fact that no one wants to pay extra taxes, but yet want all the entitlements which are funded solely through taxes.

True, but Social Security is a popular benefit. Even wingnuts have aging parents who get it, so I expect it will be funded one way or another.>>


That may be true. But the impact of those impending deficits is that it will cramp the entire Federal budget and the ability of the Federal government to spend for the things they want to spend for.

If we raise taxes to fund Medicare and Social Security, who will pay and how much? What Federal programs will no longer be funded? Will the US Navy draw the line at Pearl Harbor and the east coast as our sphere of influence?

There are lots of ways of dealing with the issue ---- but no really just or fair way of dealing with it. The just and fair way would have been to charge people for the elderly health care while they were young and working, and to protect those assets so they would be available to do that job.

But that wasn't done. And now the finances of the government in the future and the future of young working people are going to be compromised by taking wealth from them to give to the elderly, who should have been smarter about their political choices, but weren't.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: PKnudsen Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5239 of 5267
Subject: Re: Dead topic Date: 3/25/2010 9:32 PM
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If we raise taxes to fund Medicare and Social Security, who will pay


Bushie's tax cuts for the rich expire soon. So they can pay. They've had a free ride long enough.

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Author: Donna405 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5240 of 5267
Subject: Re: Dead topic Date: 3/25/2010 9:53 PM
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PKnudsen: <<Bushie's tax cuts for the rich expire soon. So they can pay. They've had a free ride long enough. >>

I am not wealthy; however, the expiration of those tax cuts will impact me greatly.

Donna

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5241 of 5267
Subject: Re: Dead topic Date: 3/26/2010 12:32 AM
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<<If we raise taxes to fund Medicare and Social Security, who will pay

Bushie's tax cuts for the rich expire soon. So they can pay. They've had a free ride long enough.
>>


The top 1% of families by income pay vastly more than their fair share of taxes. In addition they get to be insulted by slobs like yourself.




Seattle Pioneer

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Author: ziggy29 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5242 of 5267
Subject: Re: Dead topic Date: 3/26/2010 10:43 AM
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>> I am not wealthy; however, the expiration of those tax cuts will impact me greatly. <<

Just keep in mind there's no reason to consider anyone's opinion seriously when they have to resort to terms like "wingnuts" and "Bushie's tax cuts" instead of merely sticking to issues.

Not sure how he got off my ignore list to begin with.

#29

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Author: PKnudsen Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5243 of 5267
Subject: Re: Dead topic Date: 3/26/2010 4:54 PM
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I am not wealthy; however, the expiration of those tax cuts will impact me greatly.

Really? Let's see some figures.

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Author: PKnudsen Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5244 of 5267
Subject: Re: Dead topic Date: 3/26/2010 4:58 PM
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The top 1% of families by income pay vastly more than their fair share of taxes.

Says who? And I somehow doubt they are starving in the streets.

In addition they get to be insulted by slobs like yourself.

Talk about insulting! LOL! Now if someone with a brain had said that, I actually would be insulted. Bye-Bye, loser.

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Author: Donna405 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5245 of 5267
Subject: Re: Dead topic Date: 3/26/2010 11:36 PM
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First, I sold a home in Florida, took back a mortgage. The home was a rental home. Now, I have capital gains, as well as recaptured depreciation, as well as interest income. Secondly, I have capital gains in the forms of dividends as well as sales of stock.

I am far from wealthy, being retired and on SS, as well as the income from the mortgage. I would venture to say that I am lower-middle to middle-middle class. I am a frugal, but not cheap, person, and have and am saving money for a new car. (Always pay cash for cars.)

Donna

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Author: PKnudsen Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5246 of 5267
Subject: Re: Dead topic Date: 3/27/2010 1:01 AM
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First, I sold a home in Florida, took back a mortgage

OK...

I have capital gains in the forms of dividends as well as sales of stock.

Good for you. Doesn't look to me like your are destitute by any means.

and am saving money for a new car. (Always pay cash for cars.)

Well, I have a '93 Geo bought used. Wife has a Subaru also bought used. Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

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Author: Donna405 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5247 of 5267
Subject: Re: Dead topic Date: 3/27/2010 1:07 AM
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I have a 94 Volvo, bought in '97, with partial remainder of warranty (Thank God). The transmission went within 2 weeks and was under warranty.

Don't plan to buy another car for about 2-3 years (probably a Ford).

Donna

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5248 of 5267
Subject: Re: Dead topic Date: 3/27/2010 12:49 PM
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<< The top 1% of families by income pay vastly more than their fair share of taxes.

Says who? And I somehow doubt they are starving in the streets.

In addition they get to be insulted by slobs like yourself.

Talk about insulting! LOL! Now if someone with a brain had said that, I actually would be insulted. Bye-Bye, loser. >>



I see you like to be insulting to others, but you can't take it yourself.


Figures.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: BordLyron Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5249 of 5267
Subject: Re: Dead topic Date: 3/29/2010 8:13 PM
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SP & PK:

How about a real discussion? This thread had many interesting posts that included what were proported to be FACTS. Surely the juvenile invective (you, in particular, PK) can be avoided? Surely we can discuss this without challenging our opponents to a schoolyard tetherball tournament?


Byron

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Author: ziggy29 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5250 of 5267
Subject: Re: Dead topic Date: 3/30/2010 9:51 AM
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>> Surely the juvenile invective (you, in particular, PK) can be avoided? <<

You've obviously not seen him at work elsewhere. I don't think it can be avoided, based on what I've seen. Some people can't help themselves.

#29

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Author: rma1344 Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5262 of 5267
Subject: Re: Dead topic Date: 11/29/2012 5:11 PM
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Very well stated my friend! SS is just another source of funds for the congress to spend. It's nothing more than another form of taxation which is why when the tax burden is discussed, SS must be added to income taxes, sales taxes, etc. It's such a joke that I saw an article recently which recommended doing away with FICA and folding it into a whole new tax system.

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