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Author: tjscott0 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 63256  
Subject: Democrats=Authoritarian Fascists? Date: 11/20/2012 5:07 PM
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http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57552225-38/senate-bill-re...

A Senate proposal touted as protecting Americans' e-mail privacy has been quietly rewritten, giving government agencies more surveillance power than they possess under current law.
CNET has learned that Patrick Leahy, the influential Democratic chairman of the Senate Judiciary committee, has dramatically reshaped his legislation in response to law enforcement concerns.
A vote on his bill, which now authorizes warrantless access to Americans' e-mail, is scheduled for next week.

I can only imagine the furor here if Dubya administration had proposed such a law.
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Author: Volucris Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46304 of 63256
Subject: Re: Democrats=Authoritarian Fascists? Date: 11/20/2012 6:01 PM
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I can only imagine the furor here if Dubya administration had proposed such a law.

You're right - there would be an uprising, and there should be no matter who proposes the legislation

But there is a solution: http://cryptography.org/getpgp.htm

V

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Author: sykesix Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46305 of 63256
Subject: Re: Democrats=Authoritarian Fascists? Date: 11/20/2012 8:29 PM
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Hadn't heard about that, thanks.

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Author: rainphakir Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46306 of 63256
Subject: Re: Democrats=Authoritarian Fascists? Date: 11/20/2012 10:10 PM
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yep...
there would be an uprising, and there should be no matter who proposes the legislation

But there is a solution: http://cryptography.org/getpgp.htm


nope... this is NOT a solution.. it's a 'work around'.

THE solution is to write your congress person and demand that this bill be defeated.

and the 'influential congressman' targeted for defeat in his next election.

ralph.

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Author: FoolYap Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46315 of 63256
Subject: Re: Democrats=Authoritarian Fascists? Date: 11/21/2012 1:36 PM
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The Bush administration set some precedents vis-a-vis eroding our rights in the name of security.

Regrettably, the current administration has seen fit to follow that path. It's one of the reasons I'm extremely disappointed in Obama. In this regard, it's hard to see much daylight between the two.

--FY

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Author: tjscott0 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46320 of 63256
Subject: Re: Democrats=Authoritarian Fascists? Date: 11/21/2012 3:58 PM
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In this regard, it's hard to see much daylight between the two.

Obama also seems enamored with foreign adventures. Continuation of Iraq & Afghanistan + Libya adventure + potential Syria adventure*.

And Obama reneged on his renegotiation of NAFTA treaty. He then proceded to complete the two Free Trade Agreements (with South Korea and Colombia) negotiated during Bush’s tenure.

And let's not forget reneging on closing Guantanamo Bay promise.

Just saying liberal folks seem quite willing to give him a pass or no criticism.

There are several similarities between Dubya & Obama but then Dubya was/is no conservative.
http://www.cato.org/research/articles/dehaven-030728.html
non-defense discretionary spending will have skyrocketed by almost 28 percent. Government agencies that Republicans were calling to be abolished less than ten years ago, such as education and labor, have enjoyed jaw-dropping spending increases under Bush of 70 percent and 65 percent respectively.

And let not forget the biggest entitlement creation in 50 years [well until Obamacare] by Bush-- medicare Part-D.

Bush was excoriated over @ RECF board for his spendy & big gov't ways. Not that that stopped them from voting for his re-election. They still believe in voting for the lessor of two evils over there. tj has returned to voting fer the libertarian party in 2004 after a absence 28 years.



*http://rt.com/usa/news/obama-syria-weapons-president-153/

----------------------------------------------
BREAKING NEWS:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57552687-38/leahy-scuttles...

After public criticism of proposal that lets government agencies warrantlessly access Americans' e-mail, Sen. Patrick Leahy says he will "not support" such an idea at next week's vote.

Hmm... shine the light on "security at any cost or loss of freedom" roaches & they run for the drain.

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Author: sykesix Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46322 of 63256
Subject: Re: Democrats=Authoritarian Fascists? Date: 11/21/2012 4:52 PM
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Obama also seems enamored with foreign adventures. Continuation of Iraq & Afghanistan + Libya adventure + potential Syria adventure*.

And Obama reneged on his renegotiation of NAFTA treaty. He then proceded to complete the two Free Trade Agreements (with South Korea and Colombia) negotiated during Bush’s tenure.

And let's not forget reneging on closing Guantanamo Bay promise.

Just saying liberal folks seem quite willing to give him a pass or no criticism.


If you think he's getting a pass you should read what they say about him on AF sometime.

But looking at your list....The NAFTA comment is spot on. At least I think it is, I never heard that any portion of NAFTA was renegotiated. The rest seem like pretty weak criticism. Candidate Obama promised to withdraw from Iraq basically on Bush's timetable, which he did. And he promised to escalate the war in Afghanistan, which he also did. If I were Imperator our stuff would be packed up and out of there, but Qaddafi was a true dirt bag. We got to be on the winning side of that one, at virtually no cost to ourselves. That was a big win. GTMO is kind of a draw. Obama wanted to close it but Congress blocked the money.

Expanding on FY's comments for a second, this the exact reason why you don't ever want to go down the road of warrantless wiretaps, or torture, or extrajudicial prisons, etc. because once the government gets that power they don't want to give it back, and the possibility it will be abused approaches 100%. I'm sure the forces behind it are (mostly) well intentioned--for now. But the road to hell and all that. The solution is easy, just accept the risk.

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Author: PucksFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46325 of 63256
Subject: Re: Democrats=Authoritarian Fascists? Date: 11/21/2012 6:13 PM
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Finally a topic on which liberals and conservatives can unite.

PF

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Author: tjscott0 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46326 of 63256
Subject: Re: Democrats=Authoritarian Fascists? Date: 11/21/2012 6:57 PM
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Expanding on FY's comments for a second, this the exact reason why you don't ever want to go down the road of warrantless wiretaps, or torture, or extrajudicial prisons, etc. because once the government gets that power they don't want to give it back, and the possibility it will be abused approaches 100%. I'm sure the forces behind it are (mostly) well intentioned--for now. But the road to hell and all that. The solution is easy, just accept the risk.

Who would have thunk it? We agree on this. Life is risk.

“They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
Ben Franklin


Passage of Patriot Act was the result of fear. Methinks it will NEVER be repealed.

Congress should be reviewing & repealing laws rather making new laws that will likely create more unintended problems than the problem it was supposed to correct.

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Author: tjscott0 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46327 of 63256
Subject: Re: Democrats=Authoritarian Fascists? Date: 11/21/2012 7:01 PM
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Finally a topic on which liberals and conservatives can unite.

PF


Or my case-libertarian. We likely also agree about the futility of legislating human behavior-gay marriage, abortion, what a person can eat or smoke.

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46329 of 63256
Subject: Re: Democrats=Authoritarian Fascists? Date: 11/21/2012 8:00 PM
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<<Obama also seems enamored with foreign adventures. Continuation of Iraq & Afghanistan + Libya adventure + potential Syria adventure*.

And Obama reneged on his renegotiation of NAFTA treaty. He then proceded to complete the two Free Trade Agreements (with South Korea and Colombia) negotiated during Bush’s tenure.

And let's not forget reneging on closing Guantanamo Bay promise.>>


Bush is completing his 3rd term and going on to his 4th!




Seattle Pioneer

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Author: crassfool Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46372 of 63256
Subject: Re: Democrats=Authoritarian Fascists? Date: 11/25/2012 1:37 AM
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tjscott says

A Senate proposal touted as protecting Americans' e-mail privacy has been quietly rewritten, giving government agencies more surveillance power than they possess under current law.
CNET has learned that Patrick Leahy, the influential Democratic chairman of the Senate Judiciary committee, has dramatically reshaped his legislation in response to law enforcement concerns. A vote on his bill, which now authorizes warrantless access to Americans' e-mail, is scheduled for next week.

I can only imagine the furor here if Dubya administration had proposed such a law.

If it had come up during the Dubya administration, you would have applauded, wouldn't you?

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