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Lots of tweaks. The new patch is out. --DG
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Thanks for the heads-up, David, I jumped over to FilePlanet and downloaded the patch. I've already played through Act V on all three difficulties with a level 70 bowazon. The fight against the three Ancients on Mount Arreat is a wild time -- three unique monsters in an area with no exits, nowhere to hide, but at least a little more maneuvering room than in Duriel's cave. The improvements in LOD, like the 800x600 screen, a second weapons set, and hirelings that can be equipped and healed, have made this game a lot more enjoyable ... I just wish we'd had them sooner.
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Scott,

Is there much to play for after winning through all three difficulty levels? Or do you just play a new character? Or do you just quit? I'm wondering because I have a lvl 36 character who is in Act II nightmare right now and I'm trying to figure out how much more satisfying this game gets (if it does get more satisfying) than where I am already now. If the marginal increase in satisfaction isn't that high, I may shift games.

Do you work to complete sets? Etc.

Also, do you or anyone know about "Scrolls of Knowledge"? The README file included with the Expansion disc says these scrolls are new, and provide recipes for Horadric Cube or runewords, but I have never seen one in the game and no mention of them anywhere. I ask because this to me was a GREAT feature that I was really looking forward to. Why? Because I'm not going to sit around all day guessing at recipes, BUT ALSO am not ever going to read the "cheats" and look up all the runewords and make those. (I hate cheats -- takes away challenge and discovery and lots of other good things.) So I thought Blizzard's idea of "Scrolls of Knowledge" was wonderful and absolutely tailor-made for someone like me who would delight in discovering these scrolls and their contents and then work to make the recipes we find. Again, scroll equals fun, reading cheats does not equal fun, plugging in recipe guesses also does not equal fun.

Any responses from you or anyone else about any of the above is appreciated.

David
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Is there much to play for after winning through all three difficulty levels? Or do you just play a new character? Or do you just quit? I'm wondering because I have a lvl 36 character who is in Act II nightmare right now and I'm trying to figure out how much more satisfying this game gets (if it does get more satisfying) than where I am already now. If the marginal increase in satisfaction isn't that high, I may shift games.

You are cheating yourself of the full Diablo experience if you don't play different characters. I know a lot of people who play only barbarians, and they think that the only thing to the game is whacking on things with maxed out weapon mastery and whirlwind. Playing, say, a necromancer or an assassin is a completely different experience. I have a bunch of characters that are all over the place, experience-wise. I've never taken any one character all the way up through hell level, but I enjoy the novelty of learning all the different skill trees more. If I were you, I'd pick a character class that is as different as possible from what you're playing now, and try that out for a while.

Also, do you or anyone know about "Scrolls of Knowledge"? The README file included with the Expansion disc says these scrolls are new, and provide recipes for Horadric Cube or runewords, but I have never seen one in the game and no mention of them anywhere. I ask because this to me was a GREAT feature that I was really looking forward to. Why? Because I'm not going to sit around all day guessing at recipes, BUT ALSO am not ever going to read the "cheats" and look up all the runewords and make those. (I hate cheats -- takes away challenge and discovery and lots of other good things.) So I thought Blizzard's idea of "Scrolls of Knowledge" was wonderful and absolutely tailor-made for someone like me who would delight in discovering these scrolls and their contents and then work to make the recipes we find. Again, scroll equals fun, reading cheats does not equal fun, plugging in recipe guesses also does not equal fun.

There aren't any scrolls of knowledge in the game. Like it or not, the only way to get Horadric recipes is to read about them on the web. It isn't cheating, it's the officially sanctioned method.

Although to be honest, I've looked over the list of crafted items, and none of them seem so overwhelmingly great that I really needed to use them. So you can probably do without them altogether.
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According to everything that I have read the scrolls were taken out of the game, though I agree that they would be a nice addition.

Although to be honest, I've looked over the list of crafted items, and none of them seem so overwhelmingly great that I really needed to use them. So you can probably do without them altogether.

You can do without anything in the game, but I think that you would miss a lot if you skipped crafted items. I would take another look at the list, particularly the class specific crafts such as the elite Paladin armor which can produce armor with a defense rating of up to 1771 with 3 AR/level and a full range of mods available on rare armor. The barbarian elite armor craft has a component of defense based on level and can get well over 2000. True, there are a few elite armors that could be better than these, but good luck finding them.
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the web. It isn't cheating, it's the officially sanctioned method.

Heh heh...

David,

Just think of the Internet as one BIG "Scroll of Knowledge" and maybe you'll feel better about it... :-)

Draggon
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Good point (and line), Draggon, about Scrolls of Knowledge, but color me disappointed that Blizzard didn't implement these. I think it's a really nice feature, and more enticing and addictive to go for the scrolls. Then more people cheat less, as well. Not that it's really "cheating," per se, since really the only option Blizzard has left its customers with is to look stuff up on the Web. Who wants to spend time -- any portion of one's life at all -- guessing at Horadric recipes? Nightmare... and I ain't talkin' nightmare level. :)

Anyway, thanks for the answer on scrolls of knowledge, as I'd been searching in vain ever since reading (with a smile) the README file which spoke of scrolls of knowledge. "Brilliant -- Blizzard is brilliant," I had said.

DG
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David

Is there much to play for after winning through all three difficulty levels?

Probably not with that Amazon, unless there's a Nightmare or Hell LAN party sometime. I could use her as a "gambler" to find good items for lower level characters (I think 1.09 allows gambling for uniques again).

Or do you just play a new character?

As Kazim suggests, there's still a lot of game there if you haven't tried out the other character classes. A friend of mine is trying to kill Diablo once with each class. I haven't played them all yet, but I don't care for the melee classes that much. Whether I enjoy another class enough to go through Hell again remains to be seen, but at least I did it once.

Or do you just quit? I'm wondering because ... I'm trying to figure out how much more satisfying this game gets (if it does get more satisfying) than where I am already now.

My experience is that while Nightmare has more/tougher monsters, Hell pumps up even the lowest monsters with multiple immunities, and throws a lot more unique monsters at you. How about a pair of uniques, zapping you with auras of cold and lightning before you're even close enough to see them, surrounded by a swarm of "physical immunity" minions. Sound good? Some tactics/spells/skills that worked earlier were worthless in Hell. I learned to appreciate foot speed and weapon speed, and LOD's ability to hot-key to my javelin weapon set when things got tight.

If the marginal increase in satisfaction isn't that high, I may shift games.

Go ahead and take a break. I took breaks from Diablo by playing other games so that things didn't get stale. Between Nightmare and Hell I played NOLF. Now, before I start one of the classes I haven't played yet, I'm doing "something completely different" with Europa Universalis.

Do you work to complete sets? Etc.

Sets, no. In Act III on Normal, I found two parts of a four item set, Vidala's Rig, which was perfect for an Amazon. I never found the other two items, and by the time I was in Nightmare, I didn't care anymore, because the bow in particular was too weak to use against Nightmare monsters. However, LOD's exceptional sets might be worth pursuing, but only if you can gamble for them, and not depend on monster drops. I'll have to look into that further with the "Internet Scroll of Knowledge" (thanks for that one, Draggon). If you're going to try rune words or crafted items, you really need to check out the recipes on the Internet first to figure out what's useful to you and what ingredients you need. It's going to be hard enough just finding those ingredients.

Any responses from you or anyone else about any of the above is appreciated. David

I hope this helped.

Scott
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BUT ALSO am not ever going to read the "cheats" and look up all the runewords and make those. (I hate cheats -- takes away challenge and discovery and lots of other good things.)

Don't think of them as 'cheats' - think of them as hints. Even if you read every hint, your the one who still has to beat the level, area or boss. There is a fine line between giving up because your stuck and frustrated and taking a quick peek at a hint to help you move forward in the game.

I so agree with you on the Horadric Cube. It takes so long to load and unload the cube, you could spend all night just trying different combo's.

Kathleen
(currently playing Red Faction on PS2 - great FPS!)
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You can do without anything in the game, but I think that you would miss a lot if you skipped crafted items. I would take another look at the list, particularly the class specific crafts such as the elite Paladin armor which can produce armor with a defense rating of up to 1771

is this expansion, or regular? if regular, please point me to a website where i can find these recipes.


also:

good thing i have noticed about the patch- the vendors can give you more than 25k for an item now.


bad thing- the emeralds are weaker. my six-perfect-emerald socketed axe went from +1003 poison dmg over 6 secs, to +603 over 7. thats a bummer, so i gave it away...


-gabe
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is this expansion, or regular? if regular, please point me to a website where i can find these recipes.

Expansion. In LOD, you can create "crafted items" in the Horadric Cube by taking specific kinds of clothing and mixing them with some combination of gems, runes, or jewels. The resulting item will be sort of like a rare, but it will have certain guaranteed attributes, PLUS four to six random attributes.

The sites where you should look for recipes are:
http://www.battle.net/diablo2exp
(the official D2 site), and
http://www.diabloii.net
(unquestionably the most thorough fan site, almost better than Blizzard's)
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thanks, kazim.

i'm about to get on, and i will be on until my wife kicks me off, which will probably be as soon as she wakes up..
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Gabe, are you going to be starting your new character this weekend? I'm unavailable today, but maybe tomorrow we can start up a newbie game.
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Gabe, are you going to be starting your new character this weekend? I'm unavailable today, but maybe tomorrow we can start up a newbie game

yup. i'll be in touch.


-gabe
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thank you much for the diabloii.net link, kazim. i studied for hours yesterday. confirmed one of my fears that no one online in a game had solid info on: zeal limited to 5 hits. oh well. looks like i'll be switching from a "power zealot" to a "pure charger".

anyone playing d2 normal ever notice the almost total absence of high level paladins? i almost never enter a hell game with any pals in it beside myself, and i haven't seen a pal at a higher lvl than me since i broke 54. i know of course that they are there, as the ladder shows, but how come i never see them?

-gabe, lvl 56 paladin
(determined to get on ladder)
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thank you much for the diabloii.net link, kazim. i studied for hours yesterday. confirmed one of my fears that no one online in a game had solid info on: zeal limited to 5 hits. oh well. looks like i'll be switching from a "power zealot" to a "pure charger".

Don't underestimate zeal. The reason it was changed is because paladins were getting stuck in "zeal-lock" where they would sit around whacking for two seconds or more without a break. If you're surrounded, this is a really bad thing because it keeps you from retreating to a better position, and you can get killed.

Five hit zeal is still pretty rapid and costs little mana, even when you have to start another assault every five hits. Extra points in the skill after 4 are not wasted, because you get a boost to your attack rating with each point, and that makes it so you don't have to spend as many stat points on dexterity. My advice is to use zeal as a primary, cheap attack, and switch to charge or vengeance against tough enemies or when you've got mana to spare. And try out a few points in the "fanaticism" aura, it speeds up your zeal attack hugely. In the expansion it also boosts your damage, but I don't know if that is true of vanilla Diablo.

anyone playing d2 normal ever notice the almost total absence of high level paladins? i almost never enter a hell game with any pals in it beside myself, and i haven't seen a pal at a higher lvl than me since i broke 54. i know of course that they are there, as the ladder shows, but how come i never see them?

Paladins are team players, and not many battle.netters are team players. The best thing about being a paladin is when you can give your aura to large parties and stay relatively safe yourself. This isn't as appealing to power solo players, but don't let it bother you. Find a party. The lack of other paladins can work in your favor since everybody will be desperate to join one.
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oh, i have been using zeal for a long time. its done me well...but even with 5 hits i still get locked sometimes, especially on the cow lvl.

i had thought the greater number of hits would make it better since it's supposedly uninterruptible.

oh well.

-gabe
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but even with 5 hits i still get locked sometimes, especially on the cow lvl.

IMHO there's only one way for a paladin to play the cow level solo: turn on thorns and convert everything in site.
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i don't play cows solo....i can't open the portal. it just happens that nearly every time i play cows, it's with a bunch of incompetents who don't have a clue what teamwork means. so i end up with 90000 cows all around me and i die.

btw, are you ever on? every time i whisper you you aren't :)
i'll be on probably, oh, all night tonight after about 6:30 est.


-gabe
(*kazimtheonly, right?)
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btw, are you ever on? every time i whisper you you aren't :)
i'll be on probably, oh, all night tonight after about 6:30 est.


I'm not on battle.net all that often. Recently my wife has been getting back into Diablo in a big way, and our non-battle.net team (Tanus the paladin and Lostris the sorceress) has passed level 60, which means Tanus will very soon be my highest character. So if you want to play a game, we'll have to arrange a specific time for it.

Unfortunately I'll be out until kind of late tonight, and I don't know if I'll get a chance to play after I get home. If I can I'll try logging in later and whisper you. If not, I'll probably be unavailable until Monday. We'll have to try again next week.
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anyone playing d2 normal ever notice the almost total absence of high level paladins? i almost never enter a hell game with any pals in it beside myself, and i haven't seen a pal at a higher lvl than me since i broke 54. i know of course that they are there, as the ladder shows, but how come i never see them?

In LoD I only play Paladins so I can assure you that they do exist out there. :) It is more that the number of them pales in comparison to the number of high level sorcs. The Paladins are out there you just have to look for them. You might want to hit the "Paladin Temple" channel next time you are on bnet and see who might be up for a game.

Patriarch The_DefiantOne Level 92 defiant (semi-retired)
Champion Regnar Level 71 ranger
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