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Author: LurkerMom Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 1957207  
Subject: Diplomats Died, The prez Lied Date: 11/17/2012 7:15 AM
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Hey lefties, the prez lied, right to your face. There is no getting around it...and the water carries continue to make excuses saying Representative Peter King is witch hunting and McCain is nothing more that an angry old white man.
Face it left, the prez is a liar.

snip
"In a closed congressional hearing Friday, former Director of Central Intelligence David H. Petraeus told lawmakers that references to al Qaeda involvement in the deadly Sept. 11 attack on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi, Libya, were stripped from the agency’s talking points. In the wake of the assault, Gen. Petraeus and U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Susan Rice then went about making public statements that failed to mention the terrorist connection. They instead attempted to pin the blame for the attack on a spontaneous uprising over a low-budget YouTube video."

http://p.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/nov/16/diplomats-died...
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Author: anniesdad Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1837725 of 1957207
Subject: Re: Diplomats Died, The prez Lied Date: 11/17/2012 9:57 AM
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"Face it left, the prez is a liar."

No he isn't





Democrats, however, say Petraeus said nothing of the sort, either then or since. “Gen. Petraeus as director of the CIA has been completely consistent,” said Democratic Sen. Kent Conrad, who attended the Senate Intelligence Committee briefing.

Republicans countered that Petraeus testified to Congress on Septe. 14 that the attack was an outgrowth of the protest. So the new front line in this debate consuming America’s most powerful people is characteristically absurd: Who has the better recall of what was said two months ago? “My recollection was … [Petraeus said] it was the result of the protest … but he also said in the group there were some extremists and some were al-Qaida affiliates,” said Democratic Rep. Dutch Ruppersberger. King fired back, ”I told him … I had a very different recollection of that.”

Apparently the members did not take notes at the Sept. 14 hearing. Fortunately, we have Google. Here’s what ABC News reported Petraeus said way back in September: The attack “began as a spontaneous protest against the film ‘The Innocence of Muslims,’ but Islamic militants who may have links to Al Qaeda used the opportunity to launch an attack.” Essentially the Democrats’ position. Unfortunately, that briefing was also closed to the press, so any reports from it are subject to the same partisan spin.

.....
Here’s hoping the hearings will expose the absurdity of the Republican scandal-mongering in the first place. The entire controversy and anti-Rice case is built on a fundamentally incomplete reading of what the administration actually claimed in the wake of the attack. While the administration did say the attack grew out of a protest, they never said there was zero terrorist involvement. In fact, they said the opposite. “And then as [the protest] unfolded, it seems to have been hijacked, let us say, by some individual clusters of extremists who came with heavier weapons,” Rice said in the very Sunday show appearances after the attack that have been used against her.

That’s very different from claiming the attack was a purely organic protest, which is what Republicans claim she said. In fact, as Slate’s Dave Weigel pointed out, it was McCain himself who was “the key figure in spreading this lie about Rice.”

http://www.salon.com/2012/11/16/petraeus_testimony_changes_n...


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Author: salaryguru Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1837826 of 1957207
Subject: Re: Diplomats Died, The prez Lied Date: 11/17/2012 3:37 PM
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This is an example of where the left needs to simply ignore anyone stupid enough to be trying to make this an issue.

What's the issue? A memo about the attacks was edited multiple times before release to the public immediately after the attacks - at a time when contradictory information was coming from multiple sources and no one knew the complete truth.

Okay. I believe that. So what. Now, if the statements in the memo were proven to be false and used to start a trillion dollar unjust invasion of another sovereign nation, I see the point of making this an issue.

But right wing desperation to find something to blame on Obama . . . anything at all . . . has led them to grasp this clearly cautious effort to avoid over-reaction until all the facts are in as one more thing to blame Obama for. They have no idea who was involved in the memo editing. They have no idea how many other agencies and sources provided input, nor what that input was. They have no idea how that editing harmed anyone. They don't even offer a story as to why Obama would benefit from this.

This is just wingnut fear and anger misdirected again.

Hey, if you uncover something real and devious, let me know. I will help you complain and demand better from our elected leaders. But this nonsense is just sad and pathetic.

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1837827 of 1957207
Subject: Re: Diplomats Died, The prez Lied Date: 11/17/2012 3:41 PM
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" A memo about the attacks was edited multiple times before release to the public immediately after the attacks - at a time when contradictory information was coming from multiple sources and no one knew the complete truth.
"

Nope. How about State Department officials under oath in a congressional hearing testifying they knew that night it was a terrorist attack.

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Author: kenm47 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1837830 of 1957207
Subject: Re: Diplomats Died, The prez Lied Date: 11/17/2012 3:58 PM
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"What's the issue? A memo about the attacks was edited multiple times before release to the public immediately after the attacks - at a time when contradictory information was coming from multiple sources and no one knew the complete truth."

And, it seems, concerns existed about exposing classified information or hidden assets unknown to the bad guys.

Ken

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Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1837846 of 1957207
Subject: Re: Diplomats Died, The prez Lied Date: 11/17/2012 4:32 PM
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This is an example of where the left needs to simply ignore anyone stupid enough to be trying to make this an issue.

Actually, it's an example of blatant hypocrisy by every leftist who bleated about Valerie Plame but doesn't care about this.

I happen to think that dead Americans is unacceptable. You evidently have a different opinion.

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Author: 99lashes Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1837850 of 1957207
Subject: Re: Diplomats Died, The prez Lied Date: 11/17/2012 4:43 PM
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What's the issue? A memo about the attacks was edited multiple times before release to the public immediately after the attacks - at a time when contradictory information was coming from multiple sources and no one knew the complete truth."

What was the conflicting or contradictory information, besides that coming from the WH to follow the script?

It was the video was from just whom? Your CIA director told you differently so how firm was this other information to allow you to dismiss your CIA director? What of all those state secrets?

LMAO

99

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Author: jwiest Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1837919 of 1957207
Subject: Re: Diplomats Died, The prez Lied Date: 11/17/2012 8:56 PM
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This is an example of where the left needs to simply ignore anyone stupid enough to be trying to make this an issue.

Republicans are almost counting on that. They know from experience that if they harp on a topic long enough, people will slowly believe them...or if they don't quite believe them, they'll still believe that "something was covered up" or "the Obama administration wasn't forthcoming about everything". Why else do you think most Fox, and plenty of other, viewers though Saddam had something to do with 9/11?

This is just wingnut fear and anger misdirected again.

And it needs to be called out as such. The sad truth is, if you take the high road and ignore the gutter, it will block up and flood. Sometimes you have to get in the gutter and turn on the hose.

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Author: salaryguru Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1837928 of 1957207
Subject: Re: Diplomats Died, The prez Lied Date: 11/17/2012 9:31 PM
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The sad truth is, if you take the high road and ignore the gutter, it will block up and flood. Sometimes you have to get in the gutter and turn on the hose.

You might be right. I've said as much myself in the past. But the downside to addressing their nonsense is that it gives it far more credibility than it deserves. The press thrives on sensationalism and conflict so they love to air shows where they sit a PhD biologist next to fundamentalist minister and pretend that there might be a rational debate about evolution . . . or they sit a PhD environmental scientist next to a TV meteorologist and pretend that there might be a rational debate about global warming . . . or the sit a Nobel Prize winning economist down next to a right wing think-tank lobbyist and pretend that there is a "fiscal cliff" that can only be addressed by austerity. . . or we sit a global health expert down next to a representative of the US health insurance industry and pretend that the idea of a working universal healthcare system might not be achievable. . . You get the picture. The right has been controlling the dialogue, even the language we use to discuss topics, and it has had a terrible impact.

Most of the issues that the wingnuts are forcing into national debate were decided long ago based on facts. No intelligent debate can still exist. The debate only exists if we ignore facts and science and history. How long do we let them retard human progress in this country by rehashing the same disproven nonsense over and over again? We need to move past their ignorance so we can discuss real issues and explore real solutions.

This non-issue is especially nutty. They don't really even have a coherent story about what happened that we should be worried about, about how Obama was involved, about why it matters to the ultimate course of action . . . They're just mad as h3ll and convinced that Obama is at fault for something evil. Why acknowledge their stupidity at all? Why pretend this nonsense has any credibility?

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Author: feedmeNOWhuman Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838034 of 1957207
Subject: Re: Diplomats Died, The prez Lied Date: 11/18/2012 11:07 AM
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Dope: I happen to think that dead Americans is unacceptable.



No, you don't. You love dead Americans if they serve your political agenda.

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Author: jwiest Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838073 of 1957207
Subject: Re: Diplomats Died, The prez Lied Date: 11/18/2012 1:19 PM
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Why acknowledge their stupidity at all? Why pretend this nonsense has any credibility?

I agree with your post, but these are two different things. We don't have to pretend it has any credibility. But I think we've always had to answer stupidity with: "This is stupid because...". When we fail to do so we let the meme bounce around the uninformed until it becomes entrenched and much much harder to dislodge. The stupid memes really are like viruses, and if the immune system ignores it it proceeds to infect.

Real world example: back in the early 90s I lived in Toronto. There was a pretty big recession, the same one that got Clinton elected in '92. In Ontario in 1990 it meant the ousting of the Liberal party (equivalent to centrist-right Dems, or Rockefeller Republicans) and the incoming of the then-more-left-than-now New Democratic Party. You can imagine the anti-socialist freakout that had business leaders and pundits up in arms.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/second-reading/...

It rivalled or exceeded the anti-Obama sentiment in the US today (though on a much smaller scale). The leader of the NDP, Bob Rae, was literally a genius Rhodes scholar with no concept of the politics/media interplay, a policy wonk like Al Gore with little social wisdom. I can't say he did a great job (though everything was stacked against him), but the things he did do well went unnoticed mainly because nobody knew: in a misguided effort to cut costs, he disbanded the media department of his government.

And so the memes ran uncontested and his government was doomed.

We have to address the stupidities, or they take root.

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Author: Umm Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838084 of 1957207
Subject: Re: Diplomats Died, The prez Lied Date: 11/18/2012 1:51 PM
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Dope:"I happen to think that dead Americans is unacceptable."

Odd how that only started when a Democrat took office.

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Author: SaintPatrick1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838094 of 1957207
Subject: Re: Diplomats Died, The prez Lied Date: 11/18/2012 2:46 PM
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Odd that it became a non issue to you when a Dem took the white house.

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Author: LurkerMom Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838109 of 1957207
Subject: Re: Diplomats Died, The prez Lied Date: 11/18/2012 3:11 PM
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This is just wingnut fear and anger misdirected again.

Hey, if you uncover something real and devious, let me know. I will help you complain and demand better from our elected leaders. But this nonsense is just sad and pathetic.

___________________________________

Wingnut fear and anger misdirected again? Really?

Well, in other words you don't give a flying duck four Americans were murdered and it is a proven fact the prez lied.
Grovel much?

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Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838114 of 1957207
Subject: Re: Diplomats Died, The prez Lied Date: 11/18/2012 3:26 PM
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Well, in other words you don't give a flying duck four Americans were murdered and it is a proven fact the prez lied.
Grovel much?


Again, they don't care. Obama is awesome.

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Author: isawbones Big red star, 1000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838116 of 1957207
Subject: Re: Diplomats Died, The prez Lied Date: 11/18/2012 3:35 PM
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I don't get it. The information we have so far is that they were getting live video feed from a drone flying overhead showing about 150 heavily armed men with automatic weapons, machine guns, and at least one mortar simultaneous attacking.

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to know that this was not a spontaneous protest rally.

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Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838118 of 1957207
Subject: Re: Diplomats Died, The prez Lied Date: 11/18/2012 3:38 PM
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I don't get it. The information we have so far is that they were getting live video feed from a drone flying overhead showing about 150 heavily armed men with automatic weapons, machine guns, and at least one mortar simultaneous attacking.

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to know that this was not a spontaneous protest rally.


Well, for starters none of the lefties here are rocket scientists, no.

Secondly, they don't care. Obama is awesome. He never does anything for political gain. It's all about those Repuglythuglicans trying to bring him down, you see. It isn't possible to look at anything Obama does and think "that's wrong".

Because Obama. Is. Awesome.

I have my own thoughts about liberal grasshoppers and what's in store for them, but that's for another board.

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838119 of 1957207
Subject: Re: Diplomats Died, The prez Lied Date: 11/18/2012 3:39 PM
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"It isn't possible to look at anything Obama does and think "that's wrong".
"

Doing so and you will be called racist.

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Author: salaryguru Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838137 of 1957207
Subject: Re: Diplomats Died, The prez Lied Date: 11/18/2012 4:09 PM
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Well, in other words you don't give a flying duck four Americans were murdered and it is a proven fact the prez lied.
Grovel much?


You will have to excuse me, but I often have trouble connecting the dots that comes out of the mouths of wingnuts.

1- Can you point to a single thing I said that indicates that I do not care about four dead Americans?

I will answer that for you: NO. So, stop lying and slandering just because you want to accuse Obama of something. That really does make you look like a sad, angry, pathetic fool.

2- We know that some people had access to information early on that indicated this was more than a protest gone bad. Do you know if any other reports (Agency or individual) existed at that time that indicated otherwise?

3- Can you cite the arguments made about what to reveal publicly at that time? If you expect the military and intelligence agencies (or even the police) to release everything they know to the public as soon as they know it, you are too naive to continue to participate in any debates about national defense. That is just stupid. It often provides a tactical advantage to withhold some information.

4- How did the decision not to release the full CIA story immediately impact Obama positively or the nation negatively? In other words, how was Obama helped and how were you hurt but waiting to release the full story?

Finally, I don't grovel much, and I'm not about to start groveling to ignorant, hypocritical, angry wingnuts. You have not presented even a glimmer of a rational argument about this incident. Like chicken little, you are screaming the sky is falling based on nothing but your own fear and hatred of Obama.

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838139 of 1957207
Subject: Re: Diplomats Died, The prez Lied Date: 11/18/2012 4:10 PM
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"3- Can you cite the arguments made about what to reveal publicly at that time? If you expect the military and intelligence agencies (or even the police) to release everything they know to the public as soon as they know it, you are too naive to continue to participate in any debates about national defense. That is just stupid. It often provides a tactical advantage to withhold some information.
"

Fail. This does NOT excuse the president for lying about the cause.

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Author: salaryguru Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838152 of 1957207
Subject: Re: Diplomats Died, The prez Lied Date: 11/18/2012 4:31 PM
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Actually, it's an example of blatant hypocrisy by every leftist who bleated about Valerie Plame but doesn't care about this.

Okay, I've become convinced that it is important to point out really stupid arguments from the right when they appear. Of course it would take a large team of people to keep up with all the lunacy the wingnuts spew, but I will take a more active role in pointing out stupidity when it is directed at my own posts.

One has to wonder whether the poster in this case is not really familiar with the Valerie Plame case, is not familiar with the current case, is not familiar with the meaning of the word hypocrisy, or some combination of more than one of the above.

Let's review the Plame case first: Washington Post journalist Robert Novak effectively ended Valerie Plame's career with the CIA by revealing in his column her identity as a CIA operative. Court documents reveal that Libby testified that "he was specifically authorized in advance" of his meeting with a New York Times reporter to disclose classified National Intelligence. According to Libby's testimony, the Vice President advised him that the President had authorized defendant to disclose the information in order to rebut the allegations of an administration critic, former ambassador Joseph Wilson.

So in this case a lie was told for the express purpose of silencing a political enemy by destroying the career of that enemy's spouse. We know a lot about what happened in this case because it was revealed in testimony over months in a court of law.

Now let's review the current case: We know a memo was produced for public release about an event soon after it happened that did not reflect all the facts as we know them now.

I just don't see any relevant parallels.

hypocrisy: The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness.

There just aren't any dots to connect to make the case of your claims.

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Author: salaryguru Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838154 of 1957207
Subject: Re: Diplomats Died, The prez Lied Date: 11/18/2012 4:34 PM
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Fail. This does NOT excuse the president for lying about the cause.

Fail. The standard you are suggesting is that the intelligence community, the millitary, and all government agencies tell the public everything they hear as soon as they believe it to be true regardless of the consequenses. As I pointed out, this is simply stupid and naive.

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838155 of 1957207
Subject: Re: Diplomats Died, The prez Lied Date: 11/18/2012 4:36 PM
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" The standard you are suggesting is that the intelligence community, the millitary, and all government agencies tell the public everything they hear as soon as they believe it to be true regardless of the consequenses."

Obama could have very easily have said that it is too early to cite a cause for the Benghazi attack. He didn't. He lied.

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Author: LurkerMom Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838233 of 1957207
Subject: Re: Diplomats Died, The prez Lied Date: 11/18/2012 6:38 PM
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Finally, I don't grovel much, and I'm not about to start groveling to ignorant, hypocritical, angry wingnuts. You have not presented even a glimmer of a rational argument about this incident. Like chicken little, you are screaming the sky is falling based on nothing but your own fear and hatred of Obama.

________________________

The only thing I see from your posts is your groveling for the prez.

And why should I have fear and hatred for the prez? I don't need a job and I don't need his redistribution of some one else money I did not earned. Perhaps it is why you grovel for him?

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Author: ramsfanray Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838243 of 1957207
Subject: Re: Diplomats Died, The prez Lied Date: 11/18/2012 6:47 PM
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And why should I have fear and hatred for the prez?

That's a good question, but I'm afraid only you have the answer.

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838246 of 1957207
Subject: Re: Diplomats Died, The prez Lied Date: 11/18/2012 6:49 PM
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"Recommendations: 0


And why should I have fear and hatred for the prez?

That's a good question, but I'm afraid only you have the answer.
"

Yes, because there are no other reasons to disagree with Obama according the PA lefties.

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Author: ramsfanray Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838250 of 1957207
Subject: Re: Diplomats Died, The prez Lied Date: 11/18/2012 6:52 PM
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There are plenty of other reasons, but you guys never seem to bother with those and just stick to the fear and hatred.

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838252 of 1957207
Subject: Re: Diplomats Died, The prez Lied Date: 11/18/2012 6:55 PM
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"but you guys never seem to bother with those and just stick to the fear and hatred. "

Actually, you and your liberal PA comrades do.

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838254 of 1957207
Subject: Re: Diplomats Died, The prez Lied Date: 11/18/2012 7:04 PM
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"but you guys never seem to bother with those and just stick to the fear and hatred. "

Actually, you and your liberal PA comrades do.
________________________

It is kind of surreal what the libs actually claim to believe.

I hope they like the President are lying for convenience.

The excuses that he lied for national security? Like sying we just do not know what happened, or that we are trying to get to the bottom of it, but right now things are very fuzzy

No, they go after a movie. They go so hard, that they actually harass the puts who made it!

Then they come with the tired Bush lied nonsense. Now do not get me wrong, if half the intelligence agencies disagreed with what the CIA told Obama, I would not think Obama as a liar either.

They have their lies and they are sticking to it

The beautiful thing is they are also lashing out and attacking.

It is what they do, it is what they are, they are not good people.

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Author: LurkerMom Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838281 of 1957207
Subject: Re: Diplomats Died, The prez Lied Date: 11/18/2012 9:02 PM
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And why should I have fear and hatred for the prez?

That's a good question, but I'm afraid only you have the answer.

_______________________________

I certainly don't fear the prez, there is no reason unless he sic his Chicago thugs on me...but what for? I am a law abiding citizen, unlike the tax crooks that surround him or his illegal alien aunt and uncle.

Hate him? He's a joke. How do you hate a cartoon character?

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