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Author: 3millionthfool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 44390  
Subject: dishonesty Date: 7/9/2001 4:27 PM
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I've been with my gf for almost 2 years now. We are very serious – we have bought a house together.

I am pretty much fanatical about being honest. I would never lie or cheat on her, and she knows very well how I feel about that. We've had a couple of bad experiences with her lying to me. It's always been small very stupid things and it's been very bad for our relationship. We almost broke up about it then and have had many problems with me not trusting her since. I have worked hard for the past year or so trying to trust her again and it happened again last night.

This is going to sound so stupid but to me it's a big deal. Last night, she went to bed about an hour before me. I brushed my teeth and noticed that her toothbrush was dry. When I got in bed she said something and was coherently awake. I asked her if she brushed her teeth, fully expecting her to say no, but she said yes, that she did. I said her toothbrush was bone-dry and there was no way she had brushed her teeth and was getting upset. She denied it for a while, making up more lies to cover it up and finally she admitted to lying. I went in the bathroom and was very upset and shoveled the contents of the counter into the sink, breaking some things and then was getting my stuff ready to leave.

She got very upset and I didn't have the heart to leave so I slept on the couch. This morning I told her to make an appointment with her therapist today and start preparing to be alone.

1) I'm very worried about whether or not she can handle us breaking up
2) I really love her and hate that she did this – I don't know if I can trust her again and I told her many many times that if she lied to me again it would be over.
3) Jeas, we have a lot to lose. I don't know how much money we'll lose trying to sell our house this early, etc.
4) If she lies about something small, what says she won't lie about something big.
5) I can't figure out a way that she could convince me this won't happen again but one of the things she kept saying last night is “I've worked hard to not lie again…”
6) The times that I have caught her lying she denied and made up more lies – not just admitting to it, until I totally proved that she was lying before she admitted it.
7) If I don't break up with her, after promising her that it would be over if she lied again, what will that tell her? That she can get away with it?
8) Are there any totally honest females out there?


**sigh** any thoughts? Thanks for any help…
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Author: shannmc Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30075 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/9/2001 4:34 PM
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This is going to sound so stupid but to me it's a big deal. Last night, she went to bed about an hour before me. I brushed my teeth and noticed that her toothbrush was dry. When I got in bed she said something and was coherently awake. I asked her if she brushed her teeth, fully expecting her to say no, but she said yes, that she did. I said her toothbrush was bone-dry and there was no way she had brushed her teeth and was getting upset. She denied it for a while, making up more lies to cover it up and finally she admitted to lying. I went in the bathroom and was very upset and shoveled the contents of the counter into the sink, breaking some things and then was getting my stuff ready to leave.

She got very upset and I didn't have the heart to leave so I slept on the couch. This morning I told her to make an appointment with her therapist today and start preparing to be alone.


Am I the only one who thinks you're taking issues with your past out on this girl? If my BF was grilling me late at night about whether I had brushed my teeth or not, I'd be telling him not to let the door hit him on his way out. You seem to be blowing this grossly out of proportion, and unless you're a dentist, I have to wonder why. Is there some other extenuating circumstance you're not telling us?

Shannon

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Author: DMBgal Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30076 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/9/2001 4:37 PM
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If my BF was grilling me late at night about whether I had brushed my teeth or not, I'd be telling him not to let the door hit him on his way out.
--------
Amen to that sistah!

V

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Author: LuluB Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30077 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/9/2001 4:43 PM
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Well, what kind of lies are we talking about? Some people equate honesty with spilling their guts. Some things are okay left to oneself. If you are wearing an outfit that I don't like, I *can* keep that to myself. Even if asked. Or if there is a sore spot, I can let it go. For example, BF is ALWAYS late. It used to peeve me to no end, yet I let it go because he's worth the wait. However, I suppose that is *dishonest* because I chose to keep it to myself rather than spill every little thought that I have inside. In my experience, someone who asks for honesty cannot often handle it when it's given.

Asking if someone brushed their teeth is like a parent asking a child. What if she had said, "No I didn't. Goodnight." Would you have then hounded her until she had brushed them? Nobody on the planet is *totally* honest, male or female. If the *lie* does not hurt you (whether she brushed her teeth or not) just let it go. She obviously has another issue with you and chooses to not confront it. Otherwise, why lie about something as trivial as whether or not her teeth were brushed? Perhaps she lied to get you off her back? Maybe she thought you would hound her and therefore thought you'd leave her alone if she lied about brushing them. If you bought her flowers, and she did not care for the arrangement she got, yet said she loved them. Technically, that is a lie. Yet, does it really matter in the long run?

As I do not know you, this is merely guessing on my part, based on what you wrote.

You are not her parent, yet it seems as if you are acting like one.
This morning I told her to make an appointment with her therapist today and start preparing to be alone

Either be her equal or keep being her parent.

Nobody will please you 100% of the time. Do you love her? Do you think she's faithful to you (toothbrush lie does not always equate to infidelity lie)? If so, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. If you expect too much of the people you are with, you'll end up alone. Which is okay if that's what you want. But if it isn't, perhaps you'd get more out of a therapy session than your GF would.

FWIW

Louise



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Author: happycooker Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30078 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/9/2001 5:01 PM
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She got very upset and I didn't have the heart to leave so I slept on the couch. This morning I told her to make an appointment with her therapist today and start preparing to be alone.
-------------------
I'm not sure if there's a constructive way to say this, but I think you are the one who may want to talk to the therapist. If someone telling you they brushed their teeth when they really didn't can hurl you into that kind of rage, are you really prepared to own a house and live with another person? In most relationships, there are problems/issues to work out that are much worse than whether or not your partner brushed her teeth.
And why on earth would you be checking her toothbrush? That just seems kinda odd to me. I wouldn't want to be with someone who is constantly spying on/questioning my every move.

hc


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Author: sandert Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30079 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/9/2001 5:02 PM
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I've been with my gf for almost 2 years now. We are very serious – we have bought a house together.

I am pretty much fanatical about being honest. I would never lie or cheat on her,


Buying a house together isn't that serious. Kids, marriage, organ transplants... that's serious.

You would never lie or cheat, but you would wake someone up to question (read browbeat) them about their oral grooming habits? Why would it matter in the first place?

I went in the bathroom and was very upset and shoveled the contents of the counter into the sink, breaking some things and then was getting my stuff ready to leave.
She got very upset and I didn't have the heart to leave so I slept on the couch. This morning I told her to make an appointment with her therapist today and start preparing to be alone.


Do the girl a favor and take off, then do yourself a favor and make an appointment with a therapist. You didn't have the heart to leave? Why didn't you have the heart to let someone go to bed with halitosis?

I know that we aren't getting the whole story and I will now apologise for what I am about to say, if I am out of line. From what you have written, I am not, but I know that it is hard for someone to really express everything when they are upset.

I feel sorry for the poor girl to have such a low self esteem to be stuck with a loser like you.
My second though is that you are an abusive, controlling ..... who has so browbeaten this woman that she would be willing to put up with you.
You show several of the classic signs of an abuser:
1. Inflexible on certain issues.
2. Awaken the victim to "confront" them. This put them at a disadvantage.
3. Cause a scene, breaking personal items.
4. Threats.

Todd
I bet my dog wouldn't like you.



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Author: mjdonadio Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30080 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/9/2001 5:02 PM
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It's always been small very stupid things and it's been very bad for our relationship.

Well d'uh. If it is bad for your relationship then don't do it. Don't sweat the details. If you do you will become bogged down by them. Granted, I don't know all of the details, but from what you have written, it sounds like you are being a worry wart.

Has she done anything to even hint that she might be less interested in you? Good Grief! SHE BOUGHT A HOUSE WITH YOU! Unless she has given you evidence to be concerned, you are taking things WAY out proportion.

You mean to tell this board that you have NEVER lied to her about ANYTHING! Have you not ever surprised her or gone shopping for a gift for her? If you did, what was your response when she asked your whereabouts when you were doing something for her?

Part of being in a relationship is accepting the flaws along with the talents. If you think she is going out of her way to hurt you, then maybe the relationship should be ended. Otherwise, I think you are screwing up a good thing.


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Author: MsVeeDub Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30081 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/9/2001 5:19 PM
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I wholeheartedly, ten ways to Sunday agree with Todd. I myself have been stuck in close quarters with an asshole ("we" even bought a house), and he didn't treat me half as bad as you've admitted to treating this woman you claim to love.

You are a control freak and need to get yourself out of her life. She's probably miserable and too deep in her own worrying about the turn her life has taken to see that she should be the one kicking you to the curb. The issue isn't her lying to you. The issue is you abusing her.

Two things should be on the top of you To-Do List:

1. Leave the relationship. Have her move out. Don't be an asshole about it, even though your heart will insist everything will be "her fault"

2. You get yourself to therapy. You'll be lucky she doesn't sue you down the road when she realizes (while in therapy) you used her as a mistress, maid and whipping girl.

I know you think I'm a bitch for saying this, but I've been in the same neighborhood your girlfriend is in.

I do want to commend you for asking this board what it felt...even though your search for validation is a self-centered one.


Susan




Do the girl a favor and take off, then do yourself a favor and make an appointment with a therapist. You didn't have the heart to leave? Why didn't you have the heart to let someone go to bed with halitosis?

I know that we aren't getting the whole story and I will now apologise for what I am about to say, if I am out of line. From what you have written, I am not, but I know that it is hard for someone to really express everything when they are upset.

I feel sorry for the poor girl to have such a low self esteem to be stuck with a loser like you.
My second though is that you are an abusive, controlling ..... who has so browbeaten this woman that she would be willing to put up with you.
You show several of the classic signs of an abuser:
1. Inflexible on certain issues.
2. Awaken the victim to "confront" them. This put them at a disadvantage.
3. Cause a scene, breaking personal items.
4. Threats.

Todd
I bet my dog wouldn't like you.









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Author: LuluB Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30083 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/9/2001 5:32 PM
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Are there any totally honest females out there?

No, just as there are no totally honest males out there. And if you think there are totally honest males OR females, you are lying to yourself. It is one thing to expect things from people, yet totally another thing to have *unreasonable* expectations of others.



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Author: JohnnyX Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30084 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/9/2001 5:53 PM
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No, just as there are no totally honest males out there. And if you think there are totally honest males OR females, you are lying to yourself. It is one thing to expect things from people, yet totally another thing to have *unreasonable* expectations of others.

I would disagree. There are totally honest people out there. It's just that we don't notice them since they're so damn annoying that they've been ostracized by everyone else in the world. You may see them asking you for change. They can be picked out by the fact that, when asked if they are going to spend the money you give on drugs and booze they reply, "Absolutely, then I'm going to fall asleep in a puddle of my own vomit."

Yours truly,
Mr. X

...has gone to bed without brushing his teeth...

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Author: Snickmonsta Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30086 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/9/2001 6:02 PM
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I agree with Shannon. First of all.. why would you even ask that? More importantly.. why were you checking her toothbrush to see if it was dry? Ewwwww! That's creepy.

If some guy was asking me about things like.. did I brush my teeth.. I'd feel like I was sleeping with my dad. Like I was getting scolded. That's more like picking a fight or testing her. After two years if you are playing games like that? You don't need to be in a relationship. I wouldn't put up with it. In fact.. if it were me and I found out you had checked my toothbrush? You'd be kicked out. That's a little over the top in my book. I'd expect next you'd be checking my email, going through my trash, and following me when I was out.

In my humble (or maybe never to be considered humble) opinion. You are the one who needs a therapist.

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Author: Snickmonsta Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30087 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/9/2001 6:07 PM
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sandert is already one of your Favorite Fools

That was all well said Todd with some excellent points. Specially the comment about the dog.



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Author: watermelanie Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30088 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/9/2001 6:10 PM
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OK, since I don't know you, I feel perfectly comfortable being completely honest with you:

You have serious control issues. Why on earth would anyone check another person's toothbrush, unless one of them was a parent and the other was 8 years old?

Why on earth would you ask her about it? Were you trying to entrap her?

You also have some big problems with anger. Why would a toothbrushing issue cause you to become physically violent? (I'm referring to knocking everything off the bathroom counter.)

YOU need to make an appointment with YOUR therapist. And if you want to make this relationship work, you need some serious couples therapy so you can correct this horribly out-of-balance relationship. She is an adult and deserves your respect and trust, not be treated like a child who can't be relied upon to take care of her own teeth.

wm

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Author: ilovepez Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30091 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/9/2001 6:51 PM
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This is the posters first post, and they've only been registered since July 2001. I smell a hoax.

Becky

I guess I just can't believe someone would act like that and then tell people about it.


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Author: TheExpertNovice Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30093 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/9/2001 8:53 PM
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I'll take this one at a time and explain where you all went wrong:

Hey 3 millionth you have very serious issues as confirmed in both of your posts. The fact that you think you are always right and your GF and everyone is always wrong makes it highly unlikely you will be able to last in a serious relationship with her or anyone else at this point.

the obvious point - no as perfectly clear in my post - I didn't get upset about her not brushing her teeth, it was about being lied to. This is the whole thing - remember that - it was about a lie not teeth-brushing

Well equally obvious to everyone except you is that you are making a mountain range out of a mole dropping. You ask how you can trust her; well how can she trust you, when you turn violent and act like a baby over even a tiny little incident.

you get the jerk of the month award congrats

Sorry, its already been claimed.

I came here for help in a very rough time in my life. I have deep emotions and care very much for my gf. I am completly open and honest with her and not at all abusive. I've been extremely upset about this.

Sorry but you are wrong. Throwing around threats and breaking things is in itself a form of abuse. An implied threat to her that worse is coming her way if she doesn't start doing things your way.

I would suggest to you people that you don't try to help people any more - you have no idea how bad you are at it. Maybe you have fun shunning new people that come here for help but that's not good…….I will never ask advice from this forum again. Remember this, I came here for help...

No, actually the people here are very good giving advice to the people who are willing to take it. Please don't come here for further advice; your problems are deeper and more serious than we are equipped to deal with.
The replies to your original post all need to be taken in the context of your own actions, which were completely wrong and entirely inappropriate for an adult. If you want people to start treating you like a grown up, you need to start acting like one.

Here's my advice to you, which I sincerely hope does help. To find the right person, or keep the right person, work on being the right person. You have a lot of issues with your own life and personality that you need to fix before you start telling other people what they should be doing.
If you want to send something to obedience school, get a dog.














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Author: Genygirl Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30095 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/9/2001 9:29 PM
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Now I know the reason I'm still single after all these years. If I had to put up with that kind of crap, I'd be sitting in jail now for manslaughter.

A fight over lying about brushing your teeth. Get a grip!!!

Bud, do your girlfriend a favor dump her. She'll feel so much better.

Get yourself into therapy to deal with your issues.

Genygirl

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Author: Snickmonsta Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30096 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/9/2001 9:40 PM
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I carefully took apart every point you made and showed you where wrong.

Hmmm.. no, you really haven't answered anything or made any points as to why "we are wrong." You told us how we made you feel. Nothing was explained or outlined. I didn't see you say why you checked her toothbrush to see if it's dry. That's actually something that you wouldn't just notice.. you'd have to touch it or look closely. And you also didn't say why you asked her about it. What was your purpose? Was it a test?

It was even pointed out that there may be other issues that could back up your point in one or two of the posts, and that we don't know the whole story. You didn't explain anything that would justify your actions. You were given an opening. So tell us why we should think you're not overly controling and we shouldn't think you are unbalanced. You've only managed to confirm what everyone has said.

Do you truly not see this as an issue? You obviously DO NOT SEE WHY THIS WOULD UPSET HER... or is that just not your concern. I heard a lot about your feelings, but no acknowledgement of hers. You mentioned that you care about her. But you give nothing to back this up. No acknowledgement that maybe what you wrote didn't read right... maybe you were overeacting... maybe you had past situations that would warrent this. Nothing. And you mention nothing about how she felt about the situation. Just you.

Again... our point is made.

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Author: LimShady Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30099 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/9/2001 9:59 PM
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I asked her if she brushed her teeth, fully expecting her to say no, but she said yes, that she did. I said her toothbrush was bone-dry and there was no way she had brushed her teeth and was getting upset. She denied it for a while, making up more lies to cover it up and finally she admitted to lying. I went in the bathroom and was very upset and shoveled the contents of the counter into the sink, breaking some things and then was getting my stuff ready to leave.

Pardon me, but you seem quite overly concerned with the well-being of the toothbrush. Is there something you're not telling us? I wouldn't know, but I'd venture a guess that using an unwetted toothbrush in a matter inconsistant with its packaging would have a tendancy to chafe.

As for your girlfriend's relutance to say she brushed or not, when you asked the toothbrush out, did you neglect to inform your girlfriend of this fact?

Chris


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Author: runlong Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30100 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/9/2001 10:09 PM
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My mouth is hung open...and I wonder if this is for real. Perhaps you're so possessed with living an honest life that you're really missing the point - to live honestly, you'll have to live a lie to convince yourself that you're utterly honest...no one is completely honest. What really matters is the heart and not the will to not lie. I think you should see a therapist. Your girlfriend doesn't have to brush her teeth before she goes to bed, because you asked her indicates the problem - she's afraid of you and she should be grateful that you are leaving.

Rick

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Author: LimShady Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30101 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/9/2001 10:20 PM
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good lord, you wanna talk about issues.
"Pot. Hey Pot! This is Kettle. You're black!"

oh there are, i am one - to her. if you live in a world full of lies then you wouldn't know, would you?
I prefer to call it realism and I'm sure there's a Dummies book for that sort of thing, but since you asked for advice, here's mine: Completly open and honest? How's that working for you? Remind me to hook you up with the Innocent Victim. (As far as I can tell, if you live on this planet, you are guilty, period, end-of-report, next case.)

Maybe you have fun shunning new people that come here for help but that's not good.
When did we have a billboard sign that read, "He/She - We Help People in 1 Post or the Next One Is Free"

you have no idea how bad you are at it
Who said we were trying?

Advice is worth as much as you pay for it.

Chris



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Author: runlong Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30102 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/9/2001 10:24 PM
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You GOT a lot of help with an attitude for emphasis - and you don't get it - please do yourself a favor and move out, stay single and get therapy...take up running, at least you can control it, run a few marathons and I think you'll be different, changed, thinner and probably more honest about yourself.

truthfully,

Rick

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Author: AthenaModuli Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30107 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/9/2001 11:32 PM
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3millionthfool: This is going to sound so stupid but to me it's a big deal.

Translation: I know deep down I've been a jerk, so I thought I'd try putting one over on you so I can continue putting one over on me.

3millionthfool: Last night, she went to bed about an hour before me.

Translation: She went to bed without me, which ticked me off a bit, and seemed curious.... why would she want to go to bed before I was ready to?

3millionthfool: I brushed my teeth and noticed that her toothbrush was dry.

Translation: Her dry toothbrush further suggested that while she may have gone to bed, she might not have intended to call it a day. What could she be up to?

3millionthfool: When I got in bed she said something and was coherently awake.

Translation: When I got in bed, I "accidentally" nudged her, and when she stirred, I asked if she was awake. She groaned back, "Hmm? Yeah, hon… what's the matter?"

3millionthfool: I asked her if she brushed her teeth, fully expecting her to say no,

Translation: I cleverly devised a trick question, hoping to catch her off guard.

3millionthfool: but she said yes, that she did.

Translation: but just as I expected, she failed my test.

3millionthfool: I said her toothbrush was bone-dry and there was no way she had brushed her teeth and was getting upset.

Translation: I confronted her with the irrefutable evidence of her deceit, and became agitated as she revealed the depth of her unworthiness.

3millionthfool: She denied it for a while, making up more lies to cover it up

Translation: The lies on the tart's breath were thicker than the tarter on her teeth.

3millionthfool: and finally she admitted to lying.

Translation: until finally she broke down and confessed, her cunning no match for my finely-tuned forensic prowess and masterful cross-examination.

3millionthfool: I went in the bathroom and was very upset and shoveled the contents of the counter into the sink, breaking some things and then was getting my stuff ready to leave.

Translation: I went to the bathroom and launched into a carefully modulated display of anger (confirmed by glimpses of myself in the mirrors), sweeping certain items into the sink, rather than to the floor, so as to not make too big a mess on the off chance I'd have to clean up after myself, and to not break or misplace any of the props I would later put in my gym bag as she begged me to stay.

3millionthfool: She got very upset and I didn't have the heart to leave so I slept on the couch.

Translation: She had the nerve to call me an ass and then stormed back to bed, but at that point it was late, I was tired, didn't feel like driving, but needed to teach her a lesson, so I went to the living room, flopped out on the couch, flipped on the TV, found something suitable, had a nice wank, and fell asleep. I woke up an hour or two later, went back to the bedroom, and went back to sleep.

3millionthfool: This morning I told her to make an appointment with her therapist today and start preparing to be alone.

Translation: This morning, still high from last night's episode and thinking I might squeeze additional mileage out of it, I made sure her day would be as crappy as possible, hoping this would encourage her to try extra hard to make things up to me this evening, which always lifts my morale after a withering day at the 9-to-5.

3millionthfool: **sigh** any thoughts? Thanks for any help…

Translation: It's just **pathetic** I know. Please, stop me before I oink again.



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Author: TDMENEUF Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30108 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/9/2001 11:34 PM
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8) Are there any totally honest females out there?


Yes, I am one of them and to be totally honest, do yourself a favor and this girl a favor and get some serious counseling for yourself!

You are going to seriously sit there and tell me you are willing to throw an entire relationship away over this? That is not a sign of a mentally healthy person IMHO. You seem to have this fixation on honesty, start with yourself and take a good long look in the mirror and ask yourself if you honestly believe this is worth ruining everything you have worked for over? SO WHAT IF SHE LIED ABOUT THIS?

You can sit there and tell me you have never, EVER, IN YOUR ENTIRE LIFE told a little white lie or even an outright one? Please! If you are this obsessive about this then you have a problem and need to get some serious help. People lie about little things all the time. It's called life, learn to deal with it in a more constructive manner and give your girlfriend a break. As a matter of fact, give her an apology while you're at it and tell her that while she works on her bad habit of lying, you're going to work on your bad habit of controlling and manipulation, maybe you can see a counselor together.

Deannda
Who's been told she's to honest sometimes, not always a good thing

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Author: cMozart Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30110 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 12:09 AM
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Last night, she went to bed about an hour before me. I brushed my teeth and noticed that her toothbrush was dry.

Are you saying that its not possible for a toothbrush to dry in an hour? Maybe it was an hour and half or two hours? Mine are pretty dry after I rinse and shake them out.

Maybe she was telling the truth.

Maybe she heard your question as "Did you take care of your teeth?" and since perhaps she used mouthwash instead of brushing (ok, its not *as* good, but it kills 99% of the germs that cause gingivitis) she said, "Yes, I took care of my teeth." Or, in translation. "Yes".

Maybe after you repeatedly accused her of lying about having brushed her teeth, she broke down and admitted to whatever you said about her just so she could have some quiet and an end to the discussion?

Just my opinion.

Celia
*Maybe its time to start a board FAQ with disclaimer?

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Author: AlsoChorizo Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30112 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 12:19 AM
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good lord, you wanna talk about issues. I was looking for some help and you people are unreal. I'm at a particularly crucial junction here in my life and I ask for advice and then is what i get - control freek, asshole, and loser like you. I'll take this one at a time and explain where you all went wrong:

I happen to think that you need help. You check your girl friends toothbrush and then ask her as if to trap her in a lie. Then you smash everything on the bathroom counter. You ask a group of people what they think and you get a lot of people telling you that you have issues and you should seek therapy. A few people make references to you being a control freak to which you respond, "I'll take this one at a time and explain where you all went wrong". If that doesn't show that you think everything you say is right and the rest of us (in your opinion) are wrong then why did you ask our opinion?

I agree with the not wanting to be lied to, but I have to draw the line when you seem to be trying to push her into a position where she's wrong. Do you have some kind of inferiority complex that you need to feel right at the expense of another's feelings? I'll be honest - to have a good relationship you need trust but get over yourself. If you harass your partner to a point where you are upsetting her, how strong is the relationship. The give and take is right up there with the trust. And if you can't give more than you take you are not doing it right.

You should try it sometime, only problem it really hurts when it's not returned.

Here's a link to an excellent post. This is probably the most eloquent way I have seen in writing how loving someone is. Maybe this will help.
http://leviticus.boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=15112855&sort=username
In fact you might want to read the whole thread. I found some very good words in a lot of the posts.

"I just noticed that she didn't brush her freaking teeth and asked her about it."

Then you broke a bunch of stuff and upset her. It appears to me that you were looking for an argument. A chance to escalate things. Otherwise what difference does it make if she brushed her teeth or not.

I would suggest to you people that you don't try to help people any more... I will never ask advice from this forum again. Remember this, I came here for help...

If you are asking a bunch of people you don't know advise you have to expect some of them aren't going to agree with you and maybe even ridicule you. But with many situations, you take what you need and leave the rest. I'll say again I think you should try some therapy yourself. And by saying that I'm not saying that your gf doesn't need some as well. Maybe you should start looking to yourself a little more and stop trying to be so self-righteous.

AC *JMHO, YMMV, I'm not a therapist but I play one on TV*



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Author: 3millionthfool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30113 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 12:22 AM
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I believe in total honesty. I want that in a relationship.

She agreed to be totally honest with me about everything. She knew exactly how I felt about it. She promised me that it wouldn't happen again. I believed in that vow as much as any wedding vow. I explained all this already to you people and it is enough for me, for what I did. Like I said that I was sorry for breaking something (of mine,btw), but I was extremely upset about her breaking a vow to me that I swore to her would break us up if it happened again, no matter how small the lie.

You people can think whatever you want, but I think its crazy stuff to come up with all these assumptions. In my opinion, with that being the worst of what I did wrong then I am not deserved of the words you have thrown at me.

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Author: 3millionthfool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30114 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 12:24 AM
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and you're all starting to sound like incredibly dull broken records anyway...

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Author: Domingoknife Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30116 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 12:48 AM
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3millionthfool: I went in the bathroom and was very upset and shoveled the contents of the counter into the sink, breaking some things and then was getting my stuff ready to leave.

Thank God you didn't ask her if she flossed....

DK

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Author: brokeGyal Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30117 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 1:09 AM
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<<<and you're all starting to sound like incredibly dull broken records anyway...>>>

Fine, but why don't you do yourself a favour and ASK a therapist their opinion? Maybe if a LICENSED kook analyzer told you that you were flipping out over nothing, it would sink in.

This board counts among its members people of extremely diverse backgrounds with correspondingly radically different views about everything. Do you really think its just a stupid coincidence that they all had the same view on this particular issue, or deep down, would'nt you agree, there's something amiss?(!)


brokeGyal

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Author: dotmackdot Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30119 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 2:35 AM
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I believe in total honesty. I want that in a relationship.

She agreed to be totally honest with me about everything. She knew exactly how I felt about it. She promised me that it wouldn't happen again. I believed in that vow as much as any wedding vow.


Talk about a built-in excuse for failure. Sounds like you've got a little problem with commitment because no relationship can survive under those conditions.

"Honey, I know I'm 8 months pregnant, but do these pants make me look fat?"

"Uhh... no, not at all."



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Author: Snickmonsta Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30120 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 5:43 AM
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and you're all starting to sound like incredibly dull broken records anyway...

Sooooo... what you are saying is you didn't really want our opinions, you wanted our blessings to validate your really sad behavior.

Ok.. guess you ain't gonna get that. So you might as well give up and go somewhere else to see if you can get someone to see your point. You are not interested in anyone elses opinion anyway. Only yours. I think you can stop reading now and just go away.

Hopefully she'll recognize that you aren't a healthy person to be with and she will move on. I'd hate to think that she'd stay and get (even if it's just verbally) beaten into submission. Worse yet.. I hate to think that you'd get to breed and treat children this way. You seem to be a sad, sad little man.

*washing my hands of you*

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Author: HotSpice One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30121 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 5:50 AM
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I've only just started reading this thread, but what I will add to Shannon's comment is that if a boyfriend over reacted like that (breaking stuff etc) to something so small (the lying is actually irrelevant) I'd get out of the relationship pretty fast.

Having been in a relationship like that that started with destructive behaviour and started to get violent, I would recommend that you seek that therapist damn quick.

Not brushing your teeth is not nice, but your reaction and WANTING TO TRIP her up on it is way worse.

I don't like dishonesty in a relationship either, but I don't think that lying about brushing your teeth is the issue.

hs

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Author: Snickmonsta Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30122 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 5:52 AM
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OH.. wait. One last thing. In case you didn't notice? Trying to purposefully trap someone in a lie.. well. That's dishonest. Guess you beat your little perfect record.

*duh*

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Author: HotSpice One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30123 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 5:59 AM
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I will never ask advice from this forum again. Remember this, I came here for help...

Ahhh, poor you. You were right. She's a bad girl friend. You're the perfect boyfriend.

Is that what you want to hear?

Guess what. I'm lying.

hs

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Author: scotaku Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30125 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 8:25 AM
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Maybe you have fun shunning new people that come here for help but that's not good.

I beg to differ... however, the situation you put forth is rather odd. It's just off enough to have people wondering if you're not playing a joke on us. I'm going to play gullible and continue on thinking you've got a real question and I think I can relate.

You freely admit to having quizzed your girlfriend about whether she'd brushed her teeth or not. You also freely admit that you'd seen her toothbrush beforehand and that it was bone dry. What on earth were you expecting her to say? "No, honey. I haven't brushed my teeth yet. Thank you for reminding me!"???

Your response to the replies you've received here may reveal some about yourself. If I were to hazard a guess, you expected her to fib and say that she had. You had irrefutable evidence in the dry toothbrush and set her up for your theatrics. Again, that's my guess but is based upon the rather self-righteous attitude you've returned to those who've had the cajones to call a spade a spade.

Dude, I think you set your girl up. And if you'd do it over something so inconsequential as a dry toothbrush who knows what real difficulties you two are headed for. Do you need therapy? Maybe. Heck, I did. I didn't realize what a problem I had with anger before I lost a girl I had hoped to marry. I felt so ashamed. I'd not known myself any other way. Suddenly, I felt helpless... I did not know what to do to stop it.

I got some help. I had to admit out loud that I could not solve this problem. I did not like it about myself and I had no clue how to change my responses. It scared the crap out of me! The number of people I must have hurt by not caring about how I was impacting people started to smother my outlook on life. It was not a pleasant feeling!

Man, if you're in the same place I can only encourage you to just acknowledge it and find some help. Your employer may offer some sort of counseling benefit. Mine does and I made the call. The provider kept everything confidential... they're a contractor providing the benefit to my company so there was never a fear of having it impact my job. Well, perhaps there was, but only if I didn't get some help. I'm telling you, 3millionthfool, take a look at yourself and how you're behaving. If you're not happy, there is help.

- Sco

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Author: HotSpice One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30126 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 8:32 AM
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Scotaku added to your favorite fools list

Now, that's what I call honesty

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Author: Snickmonsta Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30127 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 8:48 AM
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Yup.. ditto on that Spice. You are one of my favorites now Sco!

Juli

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Author: scotaku Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30129 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 9:00 AM
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Thanks, HS... I hope the guy hears me. For both his and his lady's sake.

- Sco

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Author: heatherlynn Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30130 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 9:02 AM
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God.....if I had you as a bf, I'd be living in the asylum, or the penitentary. I don't really care if you believe me or not, because you know what, you're sick. My bf isn't all that nice to be around either lately, but I KNOW he's under alot of stress due to financial issues, but he's NEVER EVER picked a fight with me.

Could you send me your gf's email address? I'd love to talk to her, to tell her how much of an a$$ you are and tell her to get the heck out while she can!

Heather
ps. Ever tell your parents you are in a meeting when you didn't want to talk to them?

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Author: LimShady Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30133 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 9:58 AM
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and you're all starting to sound like incredibly dull broken records anyway...

Sorry guy, "Dear Abby" is a seperate advice column. To my knowledge she doesn't post here. Speaking of which, you might want to write her and see exactly how "unrestrained" our advice was, but why do I get the feeling that won't happen....

Chris
*wishful thinking, party of one, your table is ready*


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Author: TheExpertNovice Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30134 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 10:11 AM
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TEN - cross examining for the Defense

Last night, she went to bed about an hour before me. I brushed my teeth and noticed that her toothbrush was dry. When I got in bed she said something and was coherently awake. I asked her if she brushed her teeth, fully expecting her to say no, but she said yes, that she did. I said her toothbrush was bone-dry and there was no way she had brushed her teeth and was getting upset.

So you claim your GF lied about brushing her teeth, isn't that right?

Right

So the question at hand was whether or not she "brushed her teeth", correct?

Right

So the question was NOT time specific to that night, but rather could quite reasonably be interpreted as asking whether or not she brushed her teeth on a regular basis, or even if she had ever brushed her teeth.
And on the basis of this quite reasonable interpretation of the question said GF has not in fact lied at all. In fact we have overwhelming evidence including dental records that suggest said GF has in fact brushed her teeth thousands and thousands of times.

So when you shined that bright spotlight into her eyes and demanded to know whether or not she had EVER brushed her teeth, the one and only truthful answer was the yes that she gave you. So while GF may in fact be guilty of having poor taste in men, I find that there is no conclusive proof that she did in fact lie under questioning.

Verdict - Not Guilty.


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Author: LuluB Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30139 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 10:40 AM
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*wishful thinking, party of one, your table is ready*

ROFL! Thanks for the laugh....

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Author: Skraeling9 One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30143 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 11:36 AM
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This guy berates his girl for not brushing her teeth. And I haven't been out with a woman since Reagan was in office. The world is truly a wierd place. 3mill or whatever you call yourself, if you are not a troll, are a seriously ill person.

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Author: TMFCheeze Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30147 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 12:00 PM
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She was a lovely girl, really. A beautiful, alabaster face. Soft, white skin. Eyes to die for. A trim, attractive figure livened by a natural charm that made my heart soar.

But there was the matter of her teeth. Brown, rotting pegs they were. Bleeding, festering gums. Her mouth is a fetid cavity, a gaping maw yawning in the front of her face. When she parted her lips to speak, one could even discern the the unmistakable early signs of peritonitis. But I loved her anyway. I promised I would be hers if she would only dedicate herself to a life of honest dental hygeine.

She said yes, she would, and for two years she blossomed in the tender attention of devout oral renewal. She flossed. She brushed. She saw her dentist every ninety days. No dentifirce was neglected. She became a veritable maestro with a waterpik. We reveled in the loving healthiness of it all. I still remember how, between sips of merlot on a long, luxurious evening on the beach, we gently massaged each others gums with a rubber tip.

I gave her Freedent. She gave me Aquafresh. This was love.

Each day slipped into the next, and our romance deepened and became every day more profound. When she finally had her teeth capped, the glory of her smile brought to me all the joys a man could hope for. We joined our households. Bought a house together. We brought ourselves into those first lovely stages of a life that promised only bliss.

We had our own sweet rituals. At night, in bed, instead of asking, do you love me? instead we asked, "Did you brush your teeth?" And we'd laugh. Of course, the dedication of our love was such that we already knew the answer. Of course she had brushed her teeth, just as I had brushed mine. Our love was a love that not only whitened, but refreshed. It was a love that strengthened our enamel, that was unstained by plaque and tartar, that was supported by firm, solid gums. Her sweet, gentle bridgework closed the gap between my heart and hers.

Then came the betrayal...

Cheeze

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Author: hugebabyboy Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30149 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 12:21 PM
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Last night, she went to bed about an hour before me. I brushed my teeth and noticed that her toothbrush was dry. When I got in bed she said something and was coherently awake. I asked her if she brushed her teeth, fully expecting her to say no, but she said yes, that she did. I said her toothbrush was bone-dry and there was no way she had brushed her teeth and was getting upset.

Hahahahaahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahaha. Tears are coming out of my eyessssss. Hahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahaahahahahahaahahahahaha!!!

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Author: JAFO31 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30151 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 12:26 PM
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To the Regulars, excuse the interruption, but this thread is incredible.

3millionthfool: 30074

"I've been with my gf for almost 2 years now. We are very serious – we have bought a house together.

I am pretty much fanatical about being honest. I would never lie or cheat on her, and she knows very well how I feel about that. We've had a couple of bad experiences with her lying to me. It's always been small very stupid things and it's been very bad for our relationship. We almost broke up about it then and have had many problems with me not trusting her since. I have worked hard for the past year or so trying to trust her again and it happened again last night."


3millionthfool: In 30113

"I believe in total honesty. I want that in a relationship.

She agreed to be totally honest with me about everything. She knew exactly how I felt about it. She promised me that it wouldn't happen again. I believed in that vow as much as any wedding vow. I explained all this already to you people and it is enough for me, for what I did. Like I said that I was sorry for breaking something (of mine,btw), but I was extremely upset about her breaking a vow to me that I swore to her would break us up if it happened again, no matter how small the lie."


If you believe that you are always and will always be totally honest, you are deceiving yourself. Honesty, like charity, begins at home.

If you beleive that you want total honesty all the time about everything in a relationship, then you are also deceiving yourself.

But you can believe whatever you like about yourself (even if I, or no one else on this board similarly believes.

OTOH, I would suggest that beleiveing any person who tells you that he/she will be totally honest all the time about all things is lying right then, so as soon as any girl friend or girlfriend makes that claim, you really ought to pack your bags and move.

I suggest that if you really continue to so believe, that you keep your bags packed and your lantern lit, and call Diogenes and ask for a road map. No point in retracing his steps.

IF it really means as much as you say, then leave the current gf, she will be a d@mn sight better off the further she is away from you (and the sooner, too). And if you stay, then you are again deceiving yourself as to how much honesty really matters to you.

JAFO
(now back to your regular programming)


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Author: AlsoChorizo Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30155 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 12:46 PM
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TMFCheeze is already one of your Favorite Fools

AC *need I say more*



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Author: OtherDave Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30172 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 2:04 PM
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The things you learn on TMF...

1) I'm very worried about whether or not she can handle us breaking up
I am, too, because with your footprints all over her back, her horizon must seem very limited.

2) I really love her and hate that she did this – I don't know if I can trust her again and I told her many many times that if she lied to me again it would be over.

This is complex. We'll have to break it into parts:

"I really love her."
Well, that's patently false, unless by "love" you mean "I really enjoy trying more and more outrageous attempts at control and having them succeed."

"I don't know if I can trust her again..."
Not in a state with a concealed-carry law, certainly.

"I told her many many times that if she lied to me again it would be over."
Another mistake on your part, I'm afraid. It was over pretty much when you, one of the partners in an allegedly loving relationship, confused your role in that relationship with that of the chairman of the Taliban, issuing a fatwa.

3) Jeas, we have a lot to lose.
Good point. She's clearly in danger of losing her self-respect, in much the same way that some time ago you lost your grip. And your ability to spell "geeze."

"I don't know how much money we'll lose trying to sell our house this early, etc."
Whenever a close, emotionally satisfying relationship has begun to turn bad for me, I know the first thing I worry about is the equity.

4) If she lies about something small, what says she won't lie about something big.
Like, saying she loves you.

5) I can't figure out a way that she could convince me this won't happen again but one of the things she kept saying last night is “I've worked hard to not lie again…”

You could try asking once a day "Have you stopped lying yet?" That's about as close as I can come to "Have you stopped beating your wife?" in a quick reply. As for her working hard to not lie again, maybe she wondered what you'd start in on after so maturely shoveling the contents of the bathroom counter into the sink.

Have you considered holding your breath till you turn blue? Or, even better, until hypoxia settles in?

6) The times that I have caught her lying she denied and made up more lies – not just admitting to it, until I totally proved that she was lying before she admitted it.

Look, take it like a man. She's not worthy. Don't waste your time on her. Get your own place. You'll be rid of her and better able to concentrate on a prize-winning costume for your pet ferret to wear at the next Star Wars convention.

7) If I don't break up with her, after promising her that it would be over if she lied again, what will that tell her?
That you're an inconsistent small-minded control freak.

8) Are there any totally honest females out there?
Yes, but those who know you have been restrained in their reaction because they're unsure how far "justifiable homicide" extends.

*********

As for the rational people on this board:
Doesn't TarBabyAlert ever drop by here?



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Author: MsVeeDub Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30174 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 2:09 PM
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Doesn't TarBabyAlert ever drop by here?


Nope, not unless they're lurking.



Susan

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Author: Obviousman Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30183 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 2:39 PM
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and you're all starting to sound like incredibly dull broken records anyway...

She just wanted some sleep. She probably knew you'd make a big deal out of nothing, so she told you what you wanted to hear so you'd shut up.

You didn't.

Obviousman

PS: you are an idiot.

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Author: juliewinter Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30184 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 2:41 PM
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My theory is that she DID brush her teeth, then quickly dried it off using her hair dryer so as to drive this man a bit crazier than he already apparently is.

Why, I don't know.

JW

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Author: Obviousman Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30186 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 2:45 PM
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My theory is that she DID brush her teeth, then quickly dried it off using her hair dryer so as to drive this man a bit crazier than he already apparently is.

Why, I don't know.

JW


Maybe she knew he'd leave if she just lied.

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Author: TrueRed Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30191 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 3:01 PM
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I am pretty much fanatical about being honest.

That's just perfect. Good for you. I mean, who could argue about a fellow wanting to be honest?

The problem is that you are hiding behind honesty to be abusive. You see, abusers need to abuse; it really is a compulsion. So they look for justification. If only .... then I would not have been forced to abuse.

Broken record? You bet. But there is a reason for that, 3millionthfool -- we are right!

Or, look at it another way: Can all these people who disagree with you be wrong? Can you alone be right?

I won't bother to recommend therapy. I know enough to know that abusers get therapy only when it is court-ordered, and even then it usually does not help.

To get better, you have to recognize a need for help and then to want help. You aint there.

TR

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Author: juliewinter Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30198 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 3:28 PM
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Diary of a Tooth Brush Lying Ho

11:22 p.m. Long hard day. Too tired to wait for Mr. Wonderful to decide it's bedtime for both of us, so I secretly enter bedroom.
11:24 p.m. Oops! Forgot to brush my teeth! Get up, hurry to bathroom, find toothbrush, put the required (by him) amount of toothpaste on brush. Brush teeth for required (by him) amount of time.
11:30 p.m. Remember that he had a fit and threw my great-great grandmother's vase through the window the last time I left my wet toothbrush out on the bathroom countertop. Go back to bathroom, wipe off toothbrush. It's not dry enough, I just know it!
Get out hairdryer. Thoroughly dry toothbrush, place back in holder. Return to bed.
12:24 p.m. Awakened from sound sleep where I was dreaming of running freely (and alone) through open fields by nudging of sharp elbow of Mr. Wonderful. He says something about my toothbrush. I say yes so he'll stop nudging me and I can return to running in the fields. He asks again. I say yes again. He asks again. I say no, thinking this must be the answer he's looking for.
1 to 3 a.m. Make a sandwich of my own head between pillows to block out sounds of endless crashing in bathroom.
9 a.m. Pick up phone to call therapist because Mr. Wonderful says I'm a liar and need help.
9:01 a.m. Idea comes to me. I'm not in need of therapy. He is.
9 to noon Locate new place to live.
1 to 5 p.m. Friends help move my stuff elsewhere.
6 to 9 p.m. Have dinner and drinks with friends.
11 p.m. to 8 a.m. Get best night of sleep since I met Mr. Wonderful

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Author: topdog3 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30199 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 3:30 PM
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HA HA HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


Hehehe... wiping eyes.....

That's why I love you, girl.

hehehe....

TD3,
hehe

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Author: PoodleLover Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30201 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 3:34 PM
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3millionthfool...

What I'm hearing here is "ME, ME, ME..." and "I, I, I...". A little possessive? Give up the ghost and think about her for a change... What does SHE want? Maybe to NOT be nagged about every little thing?

Having read some of what others have written, I can only concur... The house is a "so-so" issue... where children and health issues are major... and this "issue" with the toothbrush is a total NON-ISSUE!! What's going to happen when you guys have financial issues? Going to check every little nickle and dime she spends?

Enuf said! Sorry if I've repeated some of what I've read...

Seymore...ß² . {-:
<<www.lettinggoofthelittleissuesinlife.lettingthe'bigman'dealwiththem.pl>>
   http://www.geocities.com/seymore313/index.html



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Author: schnuff Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30208 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 3:49 PM
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< snip >

Last night, she went to bed about an hour before me. I brushed my teeth and noticed that her toothbrush was dry.

obviously, she used your toothbrush. when she was done with her teeth, she used it on the grout in your shower...

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Author: LittleBear8 Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30232 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 4:42 PM
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Are there any totally honest females out there?

I am totally honest.

For example:

1. I have not read this entire thread, yet will still arrograntly respond.

2. This is a strange coincidence, but I actually didn't brush my teeth this morning. (BTW, I had second thoughts about admitting that on this particular thread!)

3. I am not a therapist.

However, 3millionthfool, I think I know enough about people to say that the advice you are getting on this board is sound: You need some type of counseling. You are probably ignoring this thread at this point, but I'm sure you've got the message.

You may want to explore YOUR reasons for buying a house together. From what you've written (I've read your posts on this thread), you've never fully trusted her because of earlier lies in the relationship. Perhaps you are the one that can't handle a break up. That would explain why you didn't leave last night despite your rage. We always hear about finances breaking up a union, but finances also tend to bind unions together unnaturally long. Are you so afraid of being alone that you need to bind your GF to you financially AND destroy her self esteem so she'll never leave?

I understand your need for totally honesty. But you need to set some priorities for what is really important. You seem to be projecting something from your past onto this incident. Maybe something that happened earlier in your current relationship or maybe something that happened with someone else. Maybe your parents? Whether or not she brushed her teeth before bed is just not that important - certainly not important enough for you to ask her about it. Do you always try to catch her in lies?

Someone in your past really played a number on you. You just spent an ENTIRE NIGHT AND DAY being upset about this. You cannot get that time back. How much time do you spend trying to catch her in lies or half-truths? Do you really want to live your life that way?

I agree with you that your anger last night had nothing to do with oral hygiene. But you are kidding yourself if you think it had anything to do with honesty.

- Susan in Seattle
(less angry than I used to be...)

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Author: sandert Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30234 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 4:44 PM
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and you're all starting to sound like incredibly dull broken records anyway...

She just wanted some sleep. She probably knew you'd make a big deal out of nothing, so she told you what you wanted to hear so you'd shut up.

You didn't.

Obviousman

PS: you are an idiot.


Obviousman,
I think you are being unfairly insulting. We don't KNOW the he is an idiot. Plenty of intelligent people have emotional problems that result in obsessive compulsive disorders. Remeber that there are two types of people who have severe trust issues:
1. Liars.
2. People who have been badly hurt by someone close to them that they trusted.

The fact that he was even seeking validation for his behavior is a positive sign. I see it as an inkling of "maybe this isn't the best way" bouncing around in his head.
We can hope that maybe he will seek additional feedback from friends and maybe it will start to sink in.

Todd
I still don't think my dog would like him and that's a bigger insult, but mostly it is a reflection of my evaluation of his character and emotional maturity.

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Author: markoose Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30246 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 5:44 PM
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TMFCheeze's post:

Sorry, you can only recommend a post to the Best of once.

dammit. try it again


Sorry, you can only recommend a post to the Best of once.

dammit. try it again


Sorry, you can only recommend a post to the Best of once.

dammit. try it again


Sorry, you can only recommend a post to the Best of once.

dammit


dude, thanks for what has to be the effin' funniest post i've ever read during my 2+ years on the Fool boards

Cheeze on!
; )

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Author: ilovepez Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30247 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 5:49 PM
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juliewinter is already one of your Favorite Fools

Hilarious!

Becky

(and probably more truthful than 3millionthfool's account of the incident)

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Author: juliewinter Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30248 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 5:50 PM
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juliewinter is already one of your Favorite Fools

Hilarious!

Becky

(and probably more truthful than 3millionthfool's account of the incident)

Becky,
Thank you. Thank you.

JW

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Author: JAFO31 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30250 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 6:07 PM
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LittleBear8: "You may want to explore YOUR reasons for buying a house together. From what you've written (I've read your posts on this thread), you've never fully trusted her because of earlier lies in the relationship. Perhaps you are the one that can't handle a break up. That would explain why you didn't leave last night despite your rage. We always hear about finances breaking up a union, but finances also tend to bind unions together unnaturally long. Are you so afraid of being alone that you need to bind your GF to you financially AND destroy her self esteem so she'll never leave?"

He probably needed her money and/or her income to qualify for the house. SWAG, I know, but if the shoe fits.

JAFO


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Author: FlyingCircus Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30251 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 6:08 PM
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You people can think whatever you want, but I think its crazy stuff to come up with all these assumptions. In my opinion, with that being the
worst of what I did wrong then I am not deserved of the words you have thrown at me.


You come out here with a post like that looking for advice, and then complain about the opinions and advice you get? Sorry, but to end an allegedly serious relationship because your gf didn't brush her teeth, after you trapped her in a lie and forced the truth out, is bent. To then come out on a message board and be pious and ask for validation is seriously bent. And to then blind yourself to the possibility that you might be at fault in any way...

I'd recommend counseling on your control freakishness and overreaction to very tiny non-issues. I'd recommend counseling for her about why she is still with you at all.

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Author: markr33 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30252 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 6:10 PM
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1) I'm very worried about whether or not she can handle us breaking up

If you really love her, are you at all worried if you can handle it ?

2) I really love her and hate that she did this – I don't know if I can trust her again and I told her many many times that if she lied to me again it would be over.

There is no such thing as complete and blunt honesty. People in most societies will use white-lies very often to smooth the proper and expected social contact between us. (i.e. "How do I look ?", "Am I getting fat ?", "Did you brush your teeth?" - maybe she thought you were in the mood for some snuggling (or more) and didn't want to break the mood by getting up and brushing.)

3) Jeas, we have a lot to lose. I don't know how much money we'll lose trying to sell our house this early, etc.

Too late now, but it generally isn't advisable to purchase a house with someone you aren't 100% sure about. (and, if possible, married to)

4) If she lies about something small, what says she won't lie about something big.

Maybe, maybe not.

5) I can't figure out a way that she could convince me this won't happen again but one of the things she kept saying last night is “I've worked hard to not lie again…”

There is no way to be sure, and there is no way to convince you.

6) The times that I have caught her lying she denied and made up more lies – not just admitting to it, until I totally proved that she was lying before she admitted it.

If you can rate lies on a scale of 1-10, say 1 being trivial, and 10 being having an affair, has she ever "rated" above 1 or 2 on this scale ?

7) If I don't break up with her, after promising her that it would be over if she lied again, what will that tell her? That she can get away with it?

Do you want a companion or do you want a student/child ?

8) Are there any totally honest females out there?

Are there any totally non-violent males out there ?

I went in the bathroom and was very upset and shoveled the contents of the counter into the sink, breaking some things and then was getting my stuff ready to leave.


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Author: Burgshous Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30253 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 6:34 PM
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and you're all starting to sound like incredibly dull broken records anyway...

Seems to me, they were just giving their honest opinions.

And, of course, you wouldn't want it any other way.

Mike

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Author: vuelta Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30254 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 6:40 PM
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Sheesh.

Are there any totally honest females out there?

No. Your best course of action is to have nothing to do with them from now on.




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Author: TMFJeanie Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30258 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 7:56 PM
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8) Are there any totally honest females out there?

Yep. And I'd honestly tell you that the question was none of your business. Furthermore, if such petty situations could enrage my spouse that easily, I'd spend a lot of time lying, too.

Jeanie

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Author: mglf Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30259 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 7:58 PM
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3Mfool -

Well, it seems that you have started quite a brouhaha with your original plea for sympathy and then your wounded replies. Please be aware that I'm coming in here to offer my 2¢ only because I saw the crowd standing around gawking at the car wreck.

Having read through about thirty or forty posts on this thread (with no end in sight) I'm going to offer you - no charge, either, and I'm a trained professional (check my profile and see) - my take on you, which I think is a little different than everybody else's.

Ask yourself in total: Why are you so obsessed with honesty?

Start by asking yourself if it is an extreme way of trying to yourself some sense of control over a world that you are a little insecure about.

Ask yourself why a meaningless "lie" about toothbrushing makes you so angry you can taste it.

Ask yourself if you really believe that if your girlfriend doesn't tell you if her teeth are properly clean thn it's just a slippery slope to a morass of infidelity and you being humiliated in front of the entire world.

The answer is obvious: the problem is one everybody shares: Insecurity.

Insecurity is natural. It is the human condition. Learn to live with it and accept it. To embrace it, even. Give in to your insecurity by trusting your girlfriend. Trust her totally. Trust her to lie to you about brushing her teeth and yet not to hurt you. Trust her to lie that she's just going out with the girls when she's really going shopping.

When you can do all these things, you will really be trusting yourself.

And then you just won't worry about toothbrushes.

mglf

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Author: BigDogLover Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30260 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 8:18 PM
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Yes there are totally honest females out here. Lying is a huge thing to my Fiancee and I, and we both don't lie to each other. Well I do lie about one thing - I buy chocolate and hide it so he don't know I had it ;).

You overreacted to this situation, but I understand it is based on history and therefore it only gets worse and worse.

In answer to number 1= Don't worry about that. She will live and get over it. The most important thing is that you are happy. Do what is right for you. If she bribes you with suicide, or some such thing, then that is all the more reason to get out now.

It sounds to me like this is a make or break deal. Only you can decide if you can live with this situation or not. If it was me I wouldn't. If my partner repeatedly lied to me, it would make me believe he didn't respect me enough to care to tell me the truth.

If you do decide to break up with her, you will be upset initially, but no matter how bad it feels - YOU WILL GET OVER IT!

A house can always be sold - it is not a reason to stay together.

Maybe you could both go to counselling together? Tell her to do that with you or else you will leave?



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Author: runlong Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30261 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 8:47 PM
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Scott - a big fat kiss on your right facial check...You spoke of something true to yourself and most of us-me for sure...vulnerability, might I say - love, scares the hell out of us all and it brings out our issues and the worst. Loss...and dealing with the grief heal.

Rick

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Author: Rimbo Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30263 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 8:58 PM
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I don't know which is worse...

That you're upset about a girl lying about brushing her teeth...

...or that she lied about brushing her teeth.

What kind of pathological liar would lie about someting as lame as brushing her teeth, and what kind of obsessive-compulsive would end a 2-year relationship over it?

Bizarre.

Of course, my strategy, "Date someone so completely different from you that the problems are always major ones," isn't much better... :)

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Author: EvilChorizo Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30265 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 10:24 PM
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dude, thanks for what has to be the effin' funniest post i've ever read during my 2+ years on the Fool boards

Cheeze on!
; )


LONG LIVE DR. CHEEZE!!!!

Col. EC

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Author: Steinmr Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30267 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/10/2001 10:59 PM
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OMG! She lied to you about toothbrushing when you woke her up?

How Tragic!

You'll just have to shoot yourlameself.

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Author: TheMadCow Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30273 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/11/2001 2:35 AM
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3millionthfool = LucidDreamer?

Just a theory I have.


TMC



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Author: scotaku Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30275 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/11/2001 7:57 AM
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markoose >dude, thanks for what has to be the effin' funniest post i've ever read during my 2+ years on the Fool boards

Like crack to a ho Dr. Cheeze baits another hook and lures in his newest minion prey...

- Sco

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Author: TheExpertNovice Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30303 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/11/2001 10:57 AM
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3millionthfool = LucidDreamer?
Just a theory I have. TMC


Do you mean its not Gary Condit?


Did I get 30303 same thing front wards as backwards


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Author: READLA95 Big red star, 1000 posts 10+ Year Anniversary! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30305 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/11/2001 11:03 AM
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I believe in total honesty. I want that in a relationship.

Maybe you feel that TOTAL HONESTY is what you think you want, but in 20, or 30 years, when both of you are showing your age, things may change in your opinion.

If she asks if that hairstyle makes her look like an old lady, then you can reply, "Yes!!! You look like complete S**T!!! I won't be seen with someone looking as old as you look right now!!"

When you are going bald, and start doing that comb-over thing, and ask her if you look OK before going somewhere, is she supposed to HONESTLY answer you, and tell you "You look horrible!! You are Fat, Gray, and Bald."

That is TOTAL HONESTY for you. IMHO, it is just Cruel.

There is a really big difference between Honesty, and being considerate of another persons feelings.

While my DH was in the hospital, he awoke from a Coma, and asked me if he looked terrible. While I was just so happy he was awake, I LIED to him, and told him he looked fine.

I guess from your defination, I cannot be trusted anymore.

Read


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Author: Snickmonsta Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30308 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/11/2001 11:10 AM
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Do you mean its not Gary Condit?



LOL Expert! You know.. I looked at his website (got it from cnn.com) and noticed that he has a section for potential internships. Ironic eh?

http://www.house.gov/gcondit/

Juli




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Author: juliewinter Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30310 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/11/2001 11:20 AM
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3millionthfool = LucidDreamer?
Just a theory I have. TMC
_____

Oh no! Does he come here too?

JW
scurrying away

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Author: redsavina Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30313 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/11/2001 12:17 PM
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Maybe your girlfriend was just getting back at you for all those times she said, "Did you just fart?" and you said, "No."

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Author: DougB1009 One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30326 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/11/2001 1:27 PM
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I asked her if she brushed her teeth, fully expecting her to say no, but she said yes, that she did. I said her toothbrush was bone-dry and there was no way she had brushed her teeth

I completely understand this.
After getting my required oral sex performed on me, before bedtime (because it helps me sleep) I always make sure the slut-of-the-week gets up and brushes her teeth.

After all, I don't wanna taste that!
Ewww.

Doug
ps I recommend Crest "Minty Fresh w/ Peroxide and Baking Soda"

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Author: AngryPuppy Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30386 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/11/2001 4:14 PM
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Congratulations all! Being new to the board, I would like to commend you on one of the finest shreddings I have ever read. Keep up the good work!

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Author: scotaku Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30389 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/11/2001 4:24 PM
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Congratulations all! Being new to the board, I would like to commend you on one of the finest shreddings I have ever read. Keep up the good work!

It is a little ironic that two brand new He/She'rs have come on board (punintended) with questions and been almost night and day treated differently.

Both asked seemingly legit questions. One was so totally off the wall that it not only sucked other Fools in like so many dry leaves over a waterfall but also pegged the hoax-o-meter as if Bill Gates really was giving away $5 for every email over the net. The other question was so titilating (again pun intended) that it just had to be real. And even if it wasn't, few of us really wished we didn't have that problem.

Now, I'm not heralding one response over the other. The board is a living, breathing thing that will ebb and sway to its' own will. However, I might submit that it was the attitude of the newcomers in response to that which they stirred that was the difference.

- Sco

...I was a new He/She'r once...

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Author: CindyC72 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30390 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/11/2001 4:28 PM
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However, I might submit that it was the attitude of the newcomers in response to that which they stirred that was the difference.

Huge difference between "where's the line on flirting" and "please validate my decision to abuse my girlfriend".

Comdy

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Author: AlsoChorizo Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30410 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/11/2001 5:19 PM
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Maybe your girlfriend was just getting back at you for all those times she said, "Did you just fart?" and you said, "No."

That's right. Because of this post the He/She made it onto the Best Of again today.

AC *It's amazing what a fart can do*

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Author: AlsoChorizo Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30413 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/11/2001 5:27 PM
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Doug
ps I recommend Crest "Minty Fresh w/ Peroxide and Baking Soda"


Doug,

Have her chew a bunch of altoids just before the "requirement".

AC *you might find it quite shocking*

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Author: HenryPearsonchip Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30421 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/11/2001 7:22 PM
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3millionthfool:

You have written one of most intriguing posts I've read since I've joined TMF.

There have been those who've argued that the greatest opening paragraph of any book in contemporary American Literature belongs to James Cain in "The Postman Always Rings Twice.

"It was noon when they threw me off the haywagon."

You see, so much is said about the main character so quickly. No names needed. But you knew just from the way the drifter spoke those words that someone was going to die.

Now look at what I think is the first paragraph of a book you must write about your brief life with this woman. I've tightened it just a touch.

"Last night, she went to bed about an hour before me. I brushed my teeth and noticed her toothbrush was dry. She was awake when I got in bed. There was never any question about that, no matter what you may have read in the papers. I asked her, had she brushed her teeth? She said yes, that she did. I said, well I just rubbed my thumb across your toothbrush and it was bone-dry. She denied it for a while,
making up more lies to cover it up, and finally she admitted to lying. And there it was. Another liar in my bed, like all the many before her. So you tell me Mr. Mike Wallace, what else could I have done? I only got two hands."


Great stuff. She's still in one piece, right?

Chip




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Author: NeedAName Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30434 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/11/2001 10:48 PM
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...I was a new He/She'r once...

My father hung me from a hook once...

Once.

(when the Princess Bride quotes start repeating themselves for the third time, it's time for a different movie.)

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Author: NeedAName Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30436 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/11/2001 10:52 PM
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AC *It's amazing what a fart can do*

"I can smell a lie like a fart in a car!!"

(spaminator sucks)

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Author: AlsoChorizo Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30440 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/11/2001 11:12 PM
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My father hung me from a hook once...

Once.

(when the Princess Bride quotes start repeating themselves for the third time, it's time for a different movie.)


You lousy cork-suckers. You have violated my fargin' rights. This suminonbatching country was founded so that the liberties of common patriotic citizens, like me, could not be taken away by a bunch of fargin' ice holes, like yourselves.

AC *I can do this too*



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Author: buttercup3 One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30446 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/12/2001 12:23 AM
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When she parted her lips to speak, one could even discern the the unmistakable early signs of peritonitis.

Oh gum on, isn't this whole thread really about gingivitis?

buttercup

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Author: GlasMenagerie Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30447 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/12/2001 12:43 AM
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(when the Princess Bride quotes start repeating themselves for the third time, it's time for a different movie.)

And what movie was that from?

Tim *It's an .88 Magnum. It shoots through schools.*

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Author: entivore Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30452 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/12/2001 4:59 AM
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I believe in total honesty. I want that in a relationship.

//
If it's any consolation, I think the people attacking you on the forum don't have a clue what they are talking about. One even accused you of waking her up to grill her when you stated that she was coherently awake and you expected her to say no. They are going off on a tangent of the circumstances (you obviously don't care about her oral hygiene) rather than the true issue which is your *moral ideal*. You have just as much right to want an 100% honest relationship as a person has the right to want a monogamist relationship. I do think that damaging real things just because you are upset is going a bit too far, but other than that I think you are not overstepping your bounds at all, and you certainly don't have pyschological problems.

As far as her telling such a small lie, what about a guy going off on a small fling that didn't mean anything to him? It's the same exact thing from a neutral standpoint; simply an ideal based on morals and not reason or logic. If it bothers you so much why not leave her? If she really can't survive without you she'll try to get you back and then you can have a fresh start. Your unwillingness to leave seems to suggest that your the one who actually needs her, not the other way around. It's highly suggested that you not get into a sitation where you need someone who can't be honest.

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Author: Gullefjun Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30457 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/12/2001 8:38 AM
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You shouldn't shoot me Johnny! My grandmother shot me once....once!

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Author: scotaku Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30458 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/12/2001 8:38 AM
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Have her chew a bunch of altoids just before the "requirement".

In the interests of public safety, reduce "a bunch" to "one or part of one."

- Sco

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Author: MsVeeDub Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30459 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/12/2001 8:39 AM
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...I was a new He/She'r once...


<nostalgia>

So was I.... I see I was hot for John McCain at the time...

http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=12547104

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Author: scotaku Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30463 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/12/2001 9:03 AM
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http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=12547104

# Sco works on his scrappy intellect...

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Author: NeedAName Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30477 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/12/2001 10:46 AM
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My father hung me from a hook once...

Once.

And what movie was that from?

Johnny Dangerously. When you're in the mood for a comedy and a gangster movie... and it's constantly on Comedy Central, too.

-Scott

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Author: 3millionthfool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30494 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/12/2001 12:32 PM
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Thank you entivore – finally someone with their own mind and the courage to speak up against a angry mob. I didn't plan on wasting my time posting again because there seemed to be no one here worth posting for, but for you I will post.

Mglf, I appreciate the constructiveness of your post as well (and a couple of others). However, I must tell you that I don't feel the least bit humiliated. In order for that to happen a valid point would have to be made and there hasn't been much more here than a multitude of childish tirades. And this message board is by far not the “entire world” – this may be some people's entire world, but not reality's entire world.

Brokegyal wrote “Do you really think its just a stupid coincidence that they all had the same view on this particular issue, or deep down, would'nt you agree, there's something amiss?(!)” Mob rules – we have 10% of people that have admittedly brought their own baggage to this thread (with sentences like “I've been in the same neighborhood your girlfriend is in.”) and 90% that like to 1) go along with the crowd 2) don't have a real life (evidenced by people referring to this board as the entire world) 3) use an opportunity like this to vent frustrations 4) feelings of inferiority leads to using an opportunity like this to put someone else down in order to feel better about yourself. These are the kinds of things that lead to mob rules – that's how it works. No, brokegyal it's not stupid coincidence but it is stupid. It's the same thing that lead to Christian persecution, holy wars, witch hunting, many riots, nazism, etc. But no, you haven't been in the same neighborhood as my gf – that wasn't me and it obviously wasn't the same.

Most importantly - you can debate the above till you're blue in the face, but the real point is what follows:

I never wanted to call any of you suckers for being ok with being lied to by your mate because that's just me – I understand that not everyone feels the same way about it – I accept that but you are wrong for not seeing and accepting that I feel differently. I didn't want to bore anyone with the details in my original post, but maybe I should have. You see,I feel like if someone is telling me something they know in their head isn't true then they are separating themselves from me. I give myself completely to my mate – I want to be in the same world with them. I guess you would have to know us to really understand. When we are together, which we are a lot – it's like we are one. I can tell her anything and she can me, we say whatever at any time – we are one. There is no reason for her to lie to me. This has been working well for a while now, and I had learned to trust her again. People that know us see us as being a nice couple who are always sweet to each other. We work and act together in a way that compliments and makes life easier. And to us, something like asking if she brushed her teeth has never been the extremely controlling thing that it (or something like that) obviously has been in some of your relationships. We both help each other out, she reminds me of certain things as well. I can't imagine what kind of relationships you have been in that things like this were such a terrible control issue, but it isn't even close to that for us. That must have been terrible for you, but that's not what's going on here.

It was silly for me to post about this problem here and expect total strangers to understand.

It has been even sillier for you to go on about –haha, this is all about toothbrushes. Use your brain – you can't humiliate me like this and since that's what your after you need to know. What most of you have said has been quite absurd.

Entivore said it better than I could –read that and read back on your own posts. I had considered reporting many of the posts here, because they certainly could be taken off, but I don't want them to get erased and you not be able to look back and see what hateful things you said.


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Author: shannmc Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30495 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/12/2001 12:35 PM
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*Yawn*

The troll's still here.

No one feed him, please, and perhaps he/she/it will go away.

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Author: cMozart Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30500 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/12/2001 1:16 PM
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Or some other good quotes. From one of my favorite movies:

-- The weirdest thing just happened to me.
-- Was it a dream where you were where you see yourself standing in sort of sun-god robes on a pyramid, with a thousand naked women screaming and throwing little pickles at you?
-- No...
-- Why, am I the only one who has that dream?

-- So, if there's anything I can do for you, or, more to the point, to you, you just let me know.
-- Can you hammer a six-inch spike through a board with your penis?
-- Not right now.
-- A girl's gotta have her standards.


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Author: Gullefjun Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30502 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/12/2001 1:20 PM
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Real Genius....great flick!

Gull
It's a moral imperative!

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Author: gurdison Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30504 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/12/2001 1:24 PM
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<It was silly for me to post about this problem here and expect total strangers to understand.>


I am not a regular poster to this board. I usually pick up on the board when a post shows up on the "best of" list. The views of the board are quite varied as are the subjects covered.

I normally find that if you want to have a reasonable discussion on a particular board, you get to know who is posting and what they are posting about. It may take awhile to go back and read enough posts to get the feel, but it will help you to enter the community without creating an uproar. If you post a little at a time about yourself and your relationships, people will get to know you better.

In your particular case, you did not do that. It is impossible to tell your whole story in a single post. That applies to all of us. Maybe there are things that balance out some of your story. When people only have part of the story, they will by human nature fill in the blanks from their own experiences. What you related in what you did tell was disturbing to a lot of people. I am also sure that some of them were just piling on. That should not erase the basic concern that many had for your GF. Some of what you said indicates an obscession with honesty to a point of reaching violence. Since nobody had any other context with which to measure your actions, they assumed the worst.

I think you will find that honesty is important to almost everyone. Totally blunt, brutal honesty can be another matter. Telling a dying grandfather that his grandchild is scared to see him because of how he looks may be honest. So would telling him that "I don't care how scared he is, I am going to force him to see you" would be another. I do not see how either one would comfort the grandfather. Our world is not perfect. Neither are its people. Balance is an important element of life. Being sensitive to another persons feelings can be more important than being brutally honest. Being so rigid in one's ways is not the way to a healthy long term relationship.


BRG



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Author: AngryPuppy Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30509 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/12/2001 2:07 PM
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3millionthfool,

Only your 4th post yet you have learned how to use bolding in your sentences . Why don't you come clean and be TOTALLY honest and tell us who you really are, before I unleash MrTroll on you?

http://boards.fool.com/Profile.asp?uid=69944326

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Author: AlsoChorizo Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30513 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/12/2001 2:11 PM
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Or some other good quotes. From one of my favorite movies:

-You'll rue the day.
-Rue the day? Who talks like that?

AC *I love Val Kilmer*

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Author: catdaddy1 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30530 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/12/2001 4:38 PM
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3mf:

finally someone with their own mind and the courage to speak up against a angry mob.

I have to agree. I mean, who do these he/she'ers think they are? Heck, this lot of morons would probably tell me that it isn't ok for me to date my own cousin. What's up with that???

In order for that to happen a valid point would have to be made and there hasn't been much more here than a multitude of childish tirades.

Exactly. I mean I even noticed some of them in the "childish tirade" of knocking their SO's belongings off the counter and into the sink.

feelings of inferiority leads to using an opportunity like this to put someone else down in order to feel better about yourself.

And they should feel inferior if they can't be ABSOLUTELY HONEST about everything. I feel inferior because I cannot be completely honest. That's what I truly admire about you, 3mf. You are able to stand up for what is right against all odds. I, for one, would never be brave enough to throw such a fit if I was told a white lie. Too bad there aren't more people like you in the world.

something like asking if she brushed her teeth has never been the extremely controlling thing that it (or something like that) obviously has been in some of your relationships.

I know what you mean. I am always quizzing mates on their hygenical habits just before they go to sleep. They'd never remember to do it if it weren't for me. Thank God I have the foresight to take care of the thinking for them. Where would they be without me?

It was silly for me to post about this problem here and expect total strangers to understand

Not at all. It was silly for all of these imbeciles to not understand the importance of late night dental hygeine and its proper place in a relationship. I commend you for bringing this into the forefront for us.



I hope you all learned your lessons from this!


cd

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Author: Snickmonsta Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30536 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/12/2001 4:51 PM
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I hope you all learned your lessons from this!

I feel duly spanked. Thank you CD!

Juli




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Author: BigDogLover Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30549 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/12/2001 8:57 PM
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"*Yawn*

The troll's still here.

No one feed him, please, and perhaps he/she/it will go away"


OK I have been kepeing my mouth shut but I need to say my peace. No doubt I will get flamed but no matter.

I think the bulk of people here have acted really shamefully.

It is quite clear that there is more at issue on 3millionthfools post than just the words he typed.

I have been in an abusive controlling relationship also. What I read form his post did not remind me of my ex. His issue with the toothbrush was definately an overreaction. But instead of looking at why it may be that he overreacted, the majority of you have just attacked him for 1 incidence of behaviour. "How dare you react to her not brushing her teeth! How dare you question her! You controlling Bastard!" That is the typical reaction I saw.

What about thinking about what he did, and thinking that maybe it was the final straw. Imagine the scenario that his gf is a compulsive liar. Imagine he has tried again and again to deal with it. I do not think his issue with honesty is one that, if she asks him "Do I look fat in this", his reply is going to be"Yes you ugly pig". I don not think he insists on honesty 150% of the time. I suspect it is more a case of 'why lie when you don't need to'.

I think his issue with honesty has clearly become a strong issue to him, probably because of her past behaviour. Maybe there was a build up of events, and the toothbrush incident was the final straw.

None of you can tell me you have never ever over-reacted to a situation. And all you have done here is crucify him and tried to shame him for speaking.

The nicer approach would have been to gently tell him that maybe he overreacted, clearly he has a problem, maybe counselling together would help, there is clearly a bigger problem here than he is telling us.

That's what happens in relationships - people bottle things up, people get upset at things and overreact, people don't always know what the 'real' issue is that they are reacting against.

Yes he tested her by asking her if she brushed her teeth - but that is a clear side-effect of him not trusting her, and so he tests her. HE IS HUMAN for god sake! Give him a break instead of being so damm rude about the whole thing!

And no I do not know him, I am just sick of seeing the childish behaviour on here.

And for those about to flame me and hurl abuse at me - let he/she who is without sin, who has never overreacted in their lives, cast the first stone.

You're all acting like a bloody pack of saints who have never done anything wrong themselves.

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Author: entivore Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30550 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/12/2001 9:55 PM
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Sheesh.

Are there any totally honest females out there?

No. Your best course of action is to have nothing to do with them from now on.
//
Women, like all humans male or female, start out dishonest and have to learn to be honest. Nobody ever makes it to the 100% mark where they tell the truth regardless of the situation though, not even people who pride themselves on being honest. I've found that women who are independant and laid-back to be the most honest. If they sit back and let people come talk to them instead of seeking out people they are also far more likely to be honest. There is no 100% way to be sure how honest a person is though.

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Author: plaidprincess Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30553 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/12/2001 10:21 PM
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Women, like all humans male or female, start out dishonest and have to learn to be honest. Nobody ever makes it to the 100% mark where they tell the truth regardless of the situation though, not even people who pride themselves on being honest.

Sorry, I disagree. I believe in the inherent goodness and honesty of people. We learn how to be dishonest and mistrustful when others hurt us, out of protection of ourselves. We also learn dishonesty by example.

I will agree (eh, pretty much, anyway), with the rest of your post...that those people (*not* just women) who are less insecure and less approval-seeking are more likely to be honest.

I could get on a soapbox, but that's not *really* my style, and besides, it's time for dreams.

Plaidy...honest about the important stuff



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Author: OtherDave Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30565 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/13/2001 7:53 AM
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I'm going to make an exception from my usual practice and say something.

Ploink.


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Author: OtherDave Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30566 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/13/2001 7:59 AM
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Or some other good quotes...

It's obscure enough it might make a test.

Who said, "Not in my county?"

Which actor, which role, which movie?

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Author: shannmc Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30569 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/13/2001 9:08 AM
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OK I have been kepeing my mouth shut but I need to say my peace. No doubt I will get flamed but no matter.

You're entitled to your opinion, as I am entitled to mine. I called it like I saw it, and what I've seen from 3MF has done nothing to challenge that perception. Sorry if you had an issue with that.

I think the bulk of people here have acted really shamefully.

It is quite clear that there is more at issue on 3millionthfools post than just the words he typed.


I agree. I think that 3MF has massive issues, if indeed it wasn't just a post thrown out there to start a flame war. Why? #1-he posted on something where he was pretty clearly in the wrong, and pretty clearly looking for someone to pat his head and tell him he was right. #2-He flew off the handle at every response, ignoring the ones that were good and constructive. #3-He then tried to make it an issue about us, rather than an issue about his immature behavior and clear lack of self control.

Judging from that, I believe 3MF is a troll (someone who goes around disrupting discussions and trying to start flame wars.) I've seen trolls overrun other boards to the point where any useful and interesting discussion is obscured by the troll's rantings. I don't want that to happen here. And think about it-is it really such a coincidence that 3MF and that other troll showed up within days of each other? I think not.

My .02,
Shannon

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Author: MsVeeDub Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30570 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/13/2001 9:17 AM
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I can't add anything else to what Shanny already said, really. I think most of us did understand the issue wasn't the toothbrush, it was his perception that she's a stinkin' liar and worthy of abuse.

Susan
...no halitosis for me, thank you...

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Author: cMozart Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30571 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/13/2001 9:53 AM
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I think most of us did understand the issue wasn't the toothbrush, it was his perception that she's a stinkin' liar and worthy of abuse.

And far be it from us on the board to take a slight tangent to an issue and have fun with the idea until the cows come home. Or the sheep.

BAAAA!

Celia

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Author: LittleCodeKitten Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30572 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/13/2001 10:22 AM
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And far be it from us on the board to take a slight tangent to an issue and have fun with the idea until the cows come home. Or the sheep.


Or until the horse lies beaten to death -- old school -- in the pasture.

LCK

GREAT happy hour last night guys!



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Author: sandert Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30575 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/13/2001 10:55 AM
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And for those about to flame me and hurl abuse at me - let he/she who is without sin, who has never overreacted in their lives, cast the first stone.

Ohh Goody! I was hoping someone would ask for my opinion again.

You're all acting like a bloody pack of saints who have never done anything wrong themselves.

No, most of the people are stating concern for a behavior that is extremely disturbing. The people are recommending professional help. Some people are just making fun of the entire incident, but they mostly showed up after 3MFool (I hope the Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing Co. doesn't sue me for that abbreviation) clearly dismissed any critics of his behavior.

One big problem I had with the phrase "I would never lie" was the entrapment method used.

A definition:
lie2 (l) n.
A false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood.
Something meant to deceive or give a wrong impression.
syn:
deception untruth untruth [more]; guile; lying misrepresentation; invention, fabrication, mystification (concealment) dissimulation, dissembling; decit; pretense, pretending,

So, 3MF deliberately gave the wrong impression that he didn't already know that the nightly ritual of oral health had not been followed.
He lied (concealed the truth, pretended he didn't know) in order to catch her in a lie.

Imagine the scenario that his gf is a compulsive liar. Imagine he has tried again and again to deal with it.

That isn't the scenario, in his own words:
We've had a couple of bad experiences with her lying to me. It's always been small very stupid things and it's been very bad for our relationship. We almost broke up about it then and have had many problems with me not trusting her since. I have worked hard for the past year or so trying to trust her again and it happened again last night.


She lied about something insignificant a year ago, so he has been testing her with little traps since then and waiting for her to fall into one.

And all you have done here is crucify him and tried to shame him for speaking.

I did speak out in his defence against name calling.

The nicer approach would have been to gently tell him that maybe he overreacted, clearly he has a problem, maybe counselling together would help, there is clearly a bigger problem here than he is telling us.

I think that that was tried. I don't think he is interested. The piling on didn't start until after his first replies (one of which was pulled for profanity).

Yes he tested her by asking her if she brushed her teeth - but that is a clear side-effect of him not trusting her, and so he tests her. HE IS HUMAN for <diety> sake! Give him a break instead of being so d*** rude about the whole thing!

I admire your caring for someone who seems (is) picked on.
The question still remains: Why is he with someone he can't trust? You've seen the reaction of the secure women from this board to a man who engages in petty tests.


As for the HUMAN aspect, I believe the matter is up for debate
I am sorry, that is uncalled for, but I really have trouble restaining myself. I try to keep my tone civil, but this is off the wall....

As for the break, you should have seen some of the private emails. I would say the posts have been the model of restaint for all of the reaction I have seen.

St. Todd of Collin
Patron saint of Shiner Bock, beaten puppies and home repair



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Author: zy1118 Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30576 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/13/2001 11:37 AM
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St. Todd of Collin
Patron saint of Shiner Bock

****************************************

Patron Saint of Shiner Bock. That was worth a rec and a spot on my favorite fools. Shiner Bock has to be one of the greatest contributions Texas has made to this great nation. I just wish I could find it now that I have relocated to the Windy City...

dh


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Author: MsVeeDub Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30577 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/13/2001 12:23 PM
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I think that maybe we need to send 3M to the beach:

"Being naked on the beach at Hedonism makes you a nicer person."


http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/travel/A53397-2001Jul12.html



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Author: sandert Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30583 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/13/2001 12:58 PM
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St. Todd of Collin
Patron saint of Shiner Bock

****************************************

Patron Saint of Shiner Bock. That was worth a rec and a spot on my favorite fools. . I just wish I could find it now that I have relocated to the Windy City...

dh


Why would you want to live someplace without Shiner? We could always arrange a care package...
I know that this is tipping the divine bovine, but I don't like G*. It is too bitter for me. It could be that it isn't cold enough here for G*; but of course, it is now too hot here for Bock also, so I drink Summer Stock and Blonde.

Shiner Bock has to be one of the greatest contributions Texas has made to this great nation

It ranks just above the silicon chip...

Todd
The 9 Friday the 13th movies last 12hr, 59 seconds




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Author: zy1118 Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30588 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/13/2001 2:09 PM
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"Why would you want to live someplace without Shiner?"

**************************

Well, I don't really want to live in a place without Shiner. I just didn't want to live in Texas anymore (no offense to the Texas of the world, I'm just a midwesterner at heart). Four years in San Antonio did give me a taste for the Bock though. Nothing like a Wurstfest pitcher of Shiner in one hand, a sausage on a stick in the other, and the bellow of polka ringing in your ears...

dh

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Author: MikeEaster Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30594 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/13/2001 3:33 PM
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I'm going to make an exception from my usual practice and say something.

Ploink.


C'mon Dave, just admit that you didn't brush your teeth last night...

--Mike

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Author: runlong Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30601 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/13/2001 5:48 PM
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or until the rat runs away

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Author: BaldRDash Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30903 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/18/2001 3:04 PM
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3millionthfool: Use your brain – you can't humiliate me like this and since that's what your after you need to know. What most of you have said has been quite absurd.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you sir, that was the funniest post I've read in a long time. Tears running down my cheeks.

Bald R. Dash! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gen. Bald R. Dash
... who seriously suggests you seek professional help for your control freak hangups.


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Author: pookiepuss Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30967 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/19/2001 8:29 AM
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I believe in total honesty....
She agreed...


If this is the case, then perhaps it's time to be honest with yourself. You have gotten much astute feedback from this forum and if you were a pt of mine I'd give you much of the same (albeit a little more gently and expensive).

Your posts are textbook clinical vignettes of someone who is in denial about their behavior. Dude, it is essential to take a good hard honest look at yourself in the mirror and look at your role in this argument about honesty you are having with your gf. Instead it seems you are doing everything you can to muster up excuses as to why no one understands what your real point is. You need to see that those who responded to you have seen through the issue and to the root of the problem.

This relationship is not one built upon a foundation of total honesty, but rather control. You simply use total honesty as a tool to exert that control upon your girlfriend. I suspect one of two things prompted you to post your original question:

1) You had bad feelings about your behavior and was looking for some sort of validation.
2) You wanted to use the responses from the post to further humiliate your gf about how wrong it was of her to lie about brushing her teeth.

Now you are angry because you heard something that you didn't want, or was not expecting to hear. If you are totally honest with yourself and come to the conclusion that you really love her, then take the comments you received and examine them for shreds of truth in your behavior.

I do agree with one thing you said, that your gf needs to see her therapist. I would be surprised if you have not done considerable damage to her self –esteem.


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Author: scotaku Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30969 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/19/2001 8:56 AM
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As much as I want to see this thread die, I still hope the guy wakes up to his own behavior.


That is, if he wasn't a troll. ;)

- Sco

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Author: MsVeeDub Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 30970 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/19/2001 9:16 AM
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Yep, that was a good post from Pookie.


Susan

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Author: plaidprincess Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 31037 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/19/2001 5:29 PM
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You know what I mean? Why would she maintain a lie like that?


Who cares anymore?




(But seriously, probably just because she may have thought it was easier that way...just to drop the subject, basically.)


Plaidy...what, 3 posts to go before 500?

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Author: OtherDave Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 31038 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 7/19/2001 5:33 PM
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just trying to take the road less travelled here

You sure you're not trying to resuscitate a horse that's not only dead, but buried, decomposed, and turned into a very unattractive yet persistent glue?

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Author: TheExpertNovice Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 39719 of 44390
Subject: Re: dishonesty Date: 2/18/2002 12:58 PM
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Dishonesty 3 – man swallows toothbrush, tells doctor “it was an accident”. He/She board posters don't believe him.

Doctors remove toothbrush a week after man swallows it
How the patient could swallow an entire toothbrush is beyond me. He will need to be more careful

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_524160.html?menu=news.quirkies



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