About a year ago, they changed auto dish detergent formulations taking out solid chlorine bleach (disinfectant) and phosphates. Since then the quality of cleaning has gone down.

Gel type dish detergent seems to perform better than powders, but gel type gradually accumulates a white film on glassware.

What is your experience with the new dish detergents. Which work best in old machines?

Do new machines clean better with the new detergents?

With the gel types if I put an aluminum pie pan in my dishwasher, it comes out with pinholes in it. (You can see them when the pan is held up to the light.) (Maybe they took the sodium silicate corrosion inhibitor out too.)

Most of your aluminum pie pans now have pinholes in them.

Donna

Yes, but these are extras. Ditto aluminum foil in the dishwasher.

Dish detergent has always been highly alkaline and hard on aluminum, but the new formulations seem worse than before.

Considering I never wash aluminum foil in the dishwasher (wash it by hand for future re-use), I wouldn't now about that. As far as the pie pans go, I'll have to see what happens the next time I do wash one in the dishwasher. Usually, I wash them by hand and (if no pinholes), I use them for plant plates.

Donna

Thanks for your comments, but which of the new dish detergents do you find works best for you?

I use the Gel type dishwashing detergent, and have no problems. In addition, I have not noticed a "scum" on the dishes. By the way, the brand is Cascade with Dawn (lemon scent).

Donna

What is that annoying white film that appears now and then on glassware washed in the dishwasher, anyway? Supposedly, my water is not "hard" at all. I assume it's on all the dishes and silverware, too, but is visible primarily on glassware.

If I notice any white film, I rewash that load, adding a half cup of vinegar. Everything comes out spotless, and surprisingly, the effect seems to last for a month or more without adding any more vinegar.

Trini

I use the JetDry every once in a while, but have very little problems with the film. Maybe, it's the Dawn in the detergent. I will have to say that I have one of those dishwashers with a heater in it that increases the water temp for washing. This enables me to keep my hot water heater at 120 deg. F, but the dishwasher pumps the temp up to 140 deg. F. I do not use the "energy" saver in my dishwasher, but do use the dryer cycle. Since I am alone, I only use the dishwasher once per week (rinsing the dishes prior to placing them in the dishwasher).

Donna

Without the phosphates, hard water deposits can build up that turn glasses cloudy. I have found two products that help combat the problem. The first is Sun gel dishwasher detergent (Walmart) which seems better on hard water deposits than most other detergents. The second is Lemi-Shine (also at some Walmarts) which is a powder hard water treatment. It can remove the hard water deposits from glasses but it can not remove the long term glass etching.

Wizand

About a year ago, they changed auto dish detergent formulations taking out solid chlorine bleach (disinfectant) and phosphates. Since then the quality of cleaning has gone down. - pauleckler | Date: 11/24/2012 4:16:40 PM | Number: 123290

"Hi, I'm from the Government, here to HELP you -- the EPA."

When ever you hear that refrain Run and Run away as fast as you can.

I always add my own phosphates and bleach as necessary to get my dishes and laundry clean. A degree in Chemistry, Physics, and Mathematics certainly helps, of course.

The EPA IS NOT your friend. They are, however, better than the Infernal Revenue Service -- http://www.IRS.gov.

Kahuna, CFA

I always add my own phosphates and bleach as necessary to get my dishes and laundry clean.

Interesting idea - so what do you add, and how much?

I always add my own phosphates

The ones used as builders (to enhance cleaning power in detergent formulations) are sodium tripolyphosphate and sodium or potassium pyrophosphate (preferably tetrasodium or tetrapotassium). Sodium and potassium acid phosphates are also made but less common.

I find none of these listed on Amazon at reasonable prices ($1/lb in 20 to 100 lb quantities).

Kahuna, where do you get yours?

Chemical distributors listed in the yellow pages in your area, probably have them, but will they sell to individuals?

Paul,

I get my TSP at places like Lowes or Home Depot. Not sure of price.

IP

But TSP (trisodium phosphate) is best known for its strong alkalinity. It is not a high performance builder.

Here is a typical autodish detergent formulation. It shows sodium tripolyphosphate is typically 1/3 of the solid formulation.

SODIUM CARBONATE (LT. DENSITY) 41.0
Low foaming nonionic surfactant 2.0
SODIUM TRIPOLYPHOSPHATE, POWDER 34.0
SODIUM METASILICATE PENTAHYDRATE 20.0
CLEARON CDB (FMC) 3.0