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Author: MetroChick Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 884986  
Subject: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/10/2012 11:36 AM
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I thought SP would appreciate this.

Seems the divorce rate is actually up for those aged 50+. I think this article is on-topic, as it relates to financial issues one faces if they divorce later in life.

http://www.aarp.org/home-family/friends-family/info-05-2012/...

Boomers love to do everything their own way, and they are out in front on divorce, too. While the overall divorce rate in the United States has decreased since 1990, it has doubled for those over age 50.
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Author: alstroemeria Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867255 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/10/2012 12:11 PM
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Most of the age 55+ people I know seem more happily married than they were when they were 40-55.

One couple, though, I thought they wouldn't make it. The guy left, after a much younger woman came on to him and he succumbed. So, our friends separated. After 6 months or so, when Ms Paramour proved to be a nutball and serial seducer of older men (and moved on to her next victim), he began dating other (also disappointing) women. Meanwhile the soon-to-be-ex-wife was depressed and worried about her financial and social future. She began spending more time with women who hate men (some married to husbands they despised, some single). Luckily she had my husband's kindness, and her (male) vet's to remind her that men can be pretty OK, too.

After a while, I said something to the guy (I'm close to both of them) like, Now that you've checked out the competition, I bet <wife> looks pretty darn good! Awesome, even. And with a bit of groveling, I think you could get her back. He was angry about the idea of groveling as of course he felt the weakness of his marriage must've been her fault, but after another year of soul-searching and self-finding, he took my advice.

Today they're back together and happier than they were when I first met them. She says he's as attentive, solicitous and fun as when they were first dating. He's no longer a workaholic, they travel together again, and enjoy more activities together. He can't believe he almost tossed aside a wonderful woman.

Their divorce lawyers cost $30,000 without even getting divorced(!), but all's well that ends well.

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Author: PSUEngineer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867256 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/10/2012 12:27 PM
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Seems the divorce rate is actually up for those aged 50+.

That's not surprising since that is about the age when the last kid goes off to college or leaves home to be on their own. After years of dedicating much of their time to kids, some people don't know their spouse anymore.

PSU

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867259 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/10/2012 2:29 PM
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<<Their divorce lawyers cost $30,000 without even getting divorced(!),>>



Divorse is a significant consumer item for many --- but usually not in the budget.


<<Today they're back together and happier than they were when I first met them. She says he's as attentive, solicitous and fun as when they were first dating. He's no longer a workaholic, they travel together again, and enjoy more activities together. >>


I'm often amazed that people spend enormous amounts having children, then don't like spending time with them. They have a huge investment in their marriage and often don't cultivate their spouse.

People want what they don't have and have what they don't want it seems.

With such fickleness and foolishness so common, marriage seems like a pointless social and financial risk.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: PSUEngineer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867263 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/10/2012 3:39 PM
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I'm often amazed that people spend enormous amounts having children, then don't like spending time with them.

I'm unsure how you came to that conclusion based on what you quoted. The problem was the couple spend all their time on their children, thereby not spending much time without them. It's good to still have date night without the kids while raising them.

PSU

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Author: 1DEG Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867270 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/10/2012 6:18 PM
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I wonder what percent of those divorces are to protect assets when one spouse falls ill. I know there are certain benefits only available after one's personal wealth (however great or small) is spent, which could mean financial ruin for the healthy spouse once the other passes, so sometimes people are advised to divorce to get at least some of the money out of the sick spouse's name.

Obviously there is no good way to calculate that since I'm sure admitting that's the reason for divorce would probably get a person in trouble.

DEG

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Author: desertdaveataol Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867271 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/10/2012 6:20 PM
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With such fickleness and foolishness so common, marriage seems like a pointless social and financial risk.

Good thing you dodged that bullet, eh SP?

The secret of a happy marriage remains a secret.
Henny Youngman

I love being married. It's so great to find that one special person you want to annoy for the rest of your life.
Rita Rudner

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/topics/topic_marriage.html...

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Author: mbarr Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867288 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/11/2012 12:58 PM
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I wonder what percent of those divorces are to protect assets when one spouse falls ill.

Probably close to zero.

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Author: toberead Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867289 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/11/2012 1:16 PM
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With such fickleness and foolishness so common, marriage seems like a pointless social and financial risk.

Most of the "risks" of late in life divorce that the article talks about are the same risks that single people have faced all along. Some of the risks they mentioned are the additional costs of two people living separately (same for a single person), the cost of splitting retirement in half (singles only started with half), the risk of not having anyone to care for you in your old age (same or worse for a single person who never had kids), etc.

With the exception of paying for divorce lawyers, I don't see a lot of these costs and risks as unique to married people getting divorced.

Karen

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Author: Rael137 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867293 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/11/2012 2:33 PM
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With the exception of paying for divorce lawyers, I don't see a lot of these costs and risks as unique to married people getting divorced.

I think one of the main differences may come if one of the couple has forgone career opportunities as a compromise with the marriage. This could be due to child care, elder care, or turning down relocation to stay with the partner. So as for retirement savings, a couple wouldn't tend to start out with 2x what a single person has - it may be less.

But you do make excellent points: most of these concerns are ones that single people have been dealing with all along. We can add a higher effective income tax rate, that in times of unemployment or illness there isn't someone there who can automatically take up the slack, and that many social functions (work-related and not) are set up to be couple-centric.

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Author: legalwordwarrior Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867302 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/12/2012 10:24 AM
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I wonder what percent of those divorces are to protect assets when one spouse falls ill. I know there are certain benefits only available after one's personal wealth (however great or small) is spent, which could mean financial ruin for the healthy spouse once the other passes, so sometimes people are advised to divorce to get at least some of the money out of the sick spouse's name.

Obviously there is no good way to calculate that since I'm sure admitting that's the reason for divorce would probably get a person in trouble.


I've seen this in play three times in our family. In the first case, my Step brothers GF cancelled their wedding after they found out she had pancreatic cancer 6 weeks after their son was born. She didn't want him to have to take on her medical bills. She died 9 months later.

In the second case, similar to the first, my cousin was diagnosed with cancer and delayed the wedding so he could undergo treatment without creating a financial burden on his fiancee. He died less than a year later. As far as the family is concerned, she is his widow and we still treat her as family.

In the third case, my step-dad, upon learning that he had leukemia, tried to divorce my mom. He cited "irreconcilable differences". Mom, who didn't want a third divorce, pointed out to him that if they got divorced, he would have to move out, because she couldn't live with him "in sin" and also noted that you can't get blood from a stone financially, and left the choice up to him. They stayed married and he died 6 months after he was diagnosed.

People can make life altering decisions when facing life altering circumstances.

LWW

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867303 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/12/2012 10:35 AM
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<<I've seen this in play three times in our family. In the first case, my Step brothers GF cancelled their wedding after they found out she had pancreatic cancer 6 weeks after their son was born. She didn't want him to have to take on her medical bills. She died 9 months later.>>


I take it she was already married to the government?



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: FoolishWaldo Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867305 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/12/2012 11:18 AM
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You remind me of the story of a man I worked with perhaps 30 years ago - He didn't talk about personal things until Grandpa, 80+ announced that he wanted a divorce from wife of about 60 years. Grandpa had been unhappy for about 60 years and knowing that his time on earth was limited wanted whatever happiness/comfort was available without Grandma. My co-worker was appalled and outraged. Grandpa stood his ground and separated from wife (no divorce), but lived only about a year. My co-worker reported that Grandpa said that had been the happiest year of his adult life.

Sounds like an SP story but it's not.

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Author: xtn Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867306 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/12/2012 11:18 AM
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I'm pretty ignorant about this topic. How would being married make one spouse liable for the medical debts of the other? When I went to the ER and then spend a week in the hospital, my wife never signed anything accepting responsibility for payment.

xtn

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Author: Jeanwa Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867307 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/12/2012 11:31 AM
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community property state.

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Author: Windowseat Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867308 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/12/2012 11:33 AM
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How would being married make one spouse liable for the medical debts of the other?

The same way that being married can make one spouse liable for the credit card debts of the other. And if there is an estate of any kind after the person's death, the credit card companies and the hospital can place a lien on it.

Your wife didn't need to sign a piece of paper agreeing to accept responsibility; unless the two of you have split up and gotten a divorce, she, or the estate is liable.

Nancy

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Author: Jeanwa Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867309 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/12/2012 11:38 AM
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I'm pretty ignorant about this topic. How would being married make one spouse liable for the medical debts of the other? When I went to the ER and then spend a week in the hospital, my wife never signed anything accepting responsibility for payment.

xtn

==================================

A friend of mine was divorcing her husband. He went to get another loan. She went to the loan company and told them not to give it to him because they were getting a divorce and she was having to pay all the bills and didn't have the funds for another loan.

They gave him the loan. The divorce became final. He didn't pay off the loan.

Five (5) years later the loan company got a judgement against her and was able to take the money out of joint checking account of her and her new husband.

Community property state.

Jean

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Author: Jeanwa Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867310 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/12/2012 11:50 AM
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When I went to the ER and then spend a week in the hospital, my wife never signed anything accepting responsibility for payment.

=================================

I didn't realize you were in Texas, a community property state. If you didn't pay they would have been able to come after her. She accepted responsibility when she signed the marriage certificate and commingled her money with yours.

jean

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Author: reallyalldone Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867311 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/12/2012 12:02 PM
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Really everyone is totally ignorant of what goes on in anyone else's marriage no matter how much you think you know.

I would also posit that unless you've been through severe/terminal medical issues with a spouse or even a child, there's not much of a clue about that either.

Then again, I will get flamed because theoretical is so much more fun to conjecture about.

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Author: YewGuise Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867312 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/12/2012 12:16 PM
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Really everyone is totally ignorant of what goes on in anyone else's marriage no matter how much you think you know.

Yep.
And given how many people feel blindsided when asked for a divorce, a lot of people don't even know what goes on in their own marriages.

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Author: sissylue Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867314 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/12/2012 12:49 PM
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I'm pretty ignorant about this topic. How would being married make one spouse liable for the medical debts of the other? When I went to the ER and then spend a week in the hospital, my wife never signed anything accepting responsibility for payment

Easy - in Texas - and I would imagine all other community property states marriage is considered a 50-50 partnership for economic purposes. The partners of the partnership are liable for debts incurred by the partnership regardless of which partner incurs them.

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Author: sissylue Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867315 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/12/2012 12:51 PM
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And I see that I was only one of several that responded. Shoulda read through to the end of the posts.

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Author: MetroChick Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867316 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/12/2012 1:47 PM
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People can make life altering decisions when facing life altering circumstances.

True. And AARP magazine had an article a few years past (which I believe we discussed) about how some older couples divorce so the spouse needing full-time care can qualify sooner for Medicaid compared to spending down 1/2 the couple's assets. Right now this is legal, but I wouldn't be surprised if this becomes more popular if state marriage courts would automatically award 50% of the couple's assets to the disabled spouse if their able-bodied spouse files for divorce after the other spouse is disabled and unable to fully seek council on divorce proceedings for themselves.


http://www.aarp.org/health/conditions-treatments/info-01-201...

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Author: legalwordwarrior Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867317 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/12/2012 2:48 PM
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How would being married make one spouse liable for the medical debts of the other? When I went to the ER and then spend a week in the hospital, my wife never signed anything accepting responsibility for payment.

I think a lot of it depends on whether or not you live in a community property state? Equal division of property and equal division of bills. Or as the poster mentioned, having to pay down 1/2 the total estate in order to qualify for help with long-term care?


LWW

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Author: legalwordwarrior Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867318 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/12/2012 2:51 PM
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And I see that I was only one of several that responded. Shoulda read through to the end of the posts.

You and me both. That's what I get for reading and responding to replies before the thread!

LWW

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Author: AlsoChorizo Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867320 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/12/2012 4:17 PM
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Most of the age 55+ people I know seem more happily married than they were when they were 40-55.

Guess I was ahead of the curve.

AC *divorced at 37*

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Author: xtn Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867322 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/12/2012 4:40 PM
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Okay so I went and red up a bit about "community property" states and the treatment of debt after one spouse dies.

In Texas at least, which is a "community property" state, the phrase does not also mean "community debt." The individually owed debts of the deceased do NOT become the debts of the surviving spouse.

Now of course they DO become owed by the decedent's estate, and would presumably be paid from it before the surviving spouse got the remainder (assuming it was going to him/her), but that's not the same thing. It might leave the surviving spouse with less, but if the deceased had the money to pay for his/her medical care that is the fair way to handle it. If there isn't enough in the estate to cover the debts, then the surviving spouse is no worse off anyway. Those debts can not bankrupt or otherwise ruin the financial life of the surviving spouse. That person will still have at least his/her own half of the marital assets. You might point out that half of the homestead is part of the decedent's estate usually, and you would be right, but in Texas at least the homestead is usually protected from debt obligation, so in normal circumstances the surviving spouse would keep the house anyway.

Apparently the creditors can argue that the debts were incurred for the benefit of the surviving spouse too, and so he/she should have to pay, but I have not read enough to know if Texas judges often allow that sort of thing. My guess would be that they don't.

...a bit of time passes...

Okay I've read a bit more, and it seams that there have been examples of courts ordering a surviving spouse to pay for the decedent's debts. It seems to have been rare, seems to have most usually been overturned on appeal, and is in fact pointed out to be generally wrongful by the Texas Legislature and the Texas Supreme Court. There ARE circumstances that create joint liability where none is contracted for on paper, such as legal partnerships to name one example, but the relationship of marriage alone does not create any of them.

xtn

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Author: xtn Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867323 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/12/2012 4:51 PM
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Easy - in Texas - and I would imagine all other community property states marriage is considered a 50-50 partnership for economic purposes. The partners of the partnership are liable for debts incurred by the partnership regardless of which partner incurs them.

So that appears to be generally wrong, unless I've completely misunderstood my brief research.

xtn

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867324 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/12/2012 5:11 PM
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<<Easy - in Texas - and I would imagine all other community property states marriage is considered a 50-50 partnership for economic purposes. >>



Read the earlier posts.


It's very likely that you will discover that marriage is a 100-0% partnership. All it takes is for one spouse not to pay their bills.


That goes for paying lawyers for a divorce. That can easily be a 100-0% partnership as well.


Seattle Pioneer

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Author: sissylue Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867325 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/12/2012 7:29 PM
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You completely misunderstood your research. Seriously. I am an attorney in Texas and just off the cuff I'm going to suggest that my 35 years of practicing law in Texas probably trumps your 30 minutes of research.

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Author: legalwordwarrior Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867330 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/13/2012 12:22 PM
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So that appears to be generally wrong, unless I've completely misunderstood my brief research.

I'm not saying you're wrong, just saying that you may be comparing apples (divorce) to oranges (death). In a divorce, your assets are divided. Any bills you take on after the divorce occurs, will not go to the other spouse, however, if you have debts, they will usually be divvied up and either paid from the estate before the divorce is finalized, or one or the other spouse will accept responsibility for that debt (keeping in mind that no matter what a judge says, if you have a joint credit card, you are both liable for the debt.)

In death, bills are paid from the decedent's estate, before anyone gets anything. So the surviving spouse can be worse off, given that 1/2 the available funds of the joint estate, which arguably, the surviving spouse would have inherited, and certainly had access to during the marriage, will now go to the bill collectors.

In a divorce settlement, if you are trying to protect assets from bills, the estate could be divided in a jointly agreed to split that is more than 50/50. Even a 90/10 if the couple agreed to it and could find a judge willing to sign off on the agreement. By that scenario, the divorced spouse could end up wiht a much better settlement than the surviving spouse from a death.

LWW

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Author: Hardboiled Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867331 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/13/2012 1:09 PM
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In many states, a person is responsible for "necessaries" (like food, shelter, health care) for a spouse.

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Author: Windowseat Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867332 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/13/2012 1:27 PM
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In many states, a person is responsible for "necessaries" (like food, shelter, health care) for a spouse.

And even in states that aren't community property, and don't require necessities, if there was a huge medical bill the couple would have to separate their finances. The possibility of having a paycheck garnished, or money withdrawn from the bank account, could present a major problem.

Nancy

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Author: xtn Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867333 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/13/2012 4:07 PM
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You completely misunderstood your research. Seriously. I am an attorney in Texas and just off the cuff I'm going to suggest that my 35 years of practicing law in Texas probably trumps your 30 minutes of research.

It's happened before. Certainly your experience trumps my research. I did find this report compelling though:

http://www.baylor.edu/content/services/document.php/119403.p...

xtn

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Author: vkg Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867334 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/13/2012 4:47 PM
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Section 156 of the Texas Probate Code states that
the one-hundred percent (100%) of the community
property subject to the sole or joint control during the
marriage continues to be subject to the debts of the
deceased spouse.


It does appear very clear that the entire joint property is subject to the debts of the deceased spouse.

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Author: determinedmom Big red star, 1000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867335 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/13/2012 7:08 PM
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You completely misunderstood your research. Seriously. I am an attorney in Texas and just off the cuff I'm going to suggest that my 35 years of practicing law in Texas probably trumps your 30 minutes of research.

Without a doubt, but this is a complicated issue.

Texas law on marital liability for debts incurred by the other spouse is quite complex.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/FA/htm/FA.3.htm#3...

It is sufficiently complex that anyone who really has a need to know this stuff needs to be consulting with his or her individual attorney who can advise on the particular situation.

DM <---- Texas attorney for 34 years

(This isn't legal advice and actually is trying to tell anyone who really needs to know this stuff to consult your own lawyer about your situation.)

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Author: Jeanwa Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867337 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/14/2012 1:16 AM
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It is sufficiently complex that anyone who really has a need to know this stuff needs to be consulting with his or her individual attorney who can advise on the particular situation.

==========================

Which, IMHO, is anyone living in a community property state and is ever thinking about getting married.

Jean

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Author: xtn Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867338 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/14/2012 10:23 AM
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Section 156 of the Texas Probate Code states that
the one-hundred percent (100%) of the community
property [of the deceased spouse] subject to the sole or joint control during the
marriage continues to be subject to the debts of the
deceased spouse.

It does appear very clear that the entire joint property is subject to the debts of the deceased spouse.

I've added in bold above the missing text which I believe - based on all the other contextual clues, and the summary - was intended to be understood.

Did you just scan the document for something to point out why I'm wrong, or did you read the whole thing?

xtn

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Author: legalwordwarrior Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867339 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/14/2012 10:25 AM
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Which, IMHO, is anyone living in a community property state and is ever thinking about getting married.

Or divorced, or living with someone, or buying property together while not married.

LWW

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Author: Jeanwa Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867341 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/14/2012 12:13 PM
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Section 156 of the Texas Probate Code states that
the one-hundred percent (100%) of the community
property [of the deceased spouse] subject to the sole or joint control during the
marriage continues to be subject to the debts of the
deceased spouse.

It does appear very clear that the entire joint property is subject to the debts of the deceased spouse.

I've added in bold above the missing text which I believe - based on all the other contextual clues, and the summary - was intended to be understood.

------------------------------------------

As an example, are you saying that a joint account is divided in half in determining the deceased spouse's property?

Jean

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Author: vkg Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867342 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/14/2012 12:27 PM
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Did you just scan the document for something to point out why I'm wrong, or did you read the whole thing?

xtn


I read parts of the file. The above is very clear, even with your note, that joint property is at risk and professional legal advice is needed.

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Author: RetiredVermonter Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867347 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/16/2012 11:30 AM
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PSU:

Your comment is on the money!

However, speaking from experience, the couple's problems often start in their 30's and 40's, and do not involve only their children. Too often, either spouse hits that career peak, which requires enormous amounts of time and energy, such that the "couple" drift apart! They need to work harder at avoiding that.

We're now past the 50-year mark. (Thank you for the applause.) Kids have all finished college, married, have families of their own, and live elsewhere. We see each other when we or they wish to, but we all lead our own lives.

We're happier than ever, frankly, having enjoyed "rediscovering" each other in retirement. (Don't ask. That means many ways.)

However, way back when we started having children (three), we discovered we were drifting apart for the reasons mentioned. I call it the "rubber band" syndrome! We felt ourselves being pulled apart but didn't really know why until we sat down and talked about it!

We sought to help that by making damned sure we went out for dinner or a movie or SOMETHING without kids at least once a month, more often if we could. Furthermore, every so often we'd REALLY get away for a whole weekend to a hotel maybe 20 miles away, wander around in a nearby shopping center and buy "goodies" (wine, snacks, whatever), and then hole up in our hideaway! We might or might not go out for dinner. The idea was that we'd do whatever WE felt like, whenever WE felt like it! That snapped the rubber band back fast!

Sorry this got so long, but people need to pay attention to their relationships. If they do, the rewards can be enormous. Ask either of us and you'll see a big smile!

Vermonter

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Author: legalwordwarrior Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867348 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/16/2012 12:35 PM
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As an example, are you saying that a joint account is divided in half in determining the deceased spouse's property?

DOn't most joint accounts have right's of surviorship that make the entire account the property of the surviving spouse?

I do know that accounts that are not set up that way are frozen upon notification of the death of the account holder. When UI was in banking, we had an employee whose morning duties included checking the death notices in local papers and cross referencing those with our bank customers.

LWW

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Author: Jeanwa Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867349 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/16/2012 9:00 PM
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As an example, are you saying that a joint account is divided in half in determining the deceased spouse's property?

===========================

DOn't most joint accounts have right's of surviorship that make the entire account the property of the surviving spouse?
-----------------------------

We're missing each other.

Couple has a joint account with 1000.00 in it.

Spouse A has no debt.

Spouse B has 2000.00 debt, the debt was incurred while they were married.

Spouse B dies.

I'm saying the full 1000.00 can be taken to pay off the debt.

It sounded like xtn thought only 500.00 could be used to pay off the debt. Not only that but spouse A would also be responsible for the remaining 1000.00.

The only case I've found where the spouse was not found responsible was when the debt was for hookers and parties.

Did that help?

Jean

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Author: Jeanwa Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867350 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/16/2012 9:03 PM
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It sounded like xtn thought only 500.00 could be used to pay off the debt. Not only that but spouse A would also be responsible for the remaining 1000.00.
===========================

Better wording...

It sounded like xtn thought only 500.00 could be used to pay off the debt.


I think not only could the whole 1000.00 be used to pay the debt but spouse A would also be responsible for the remaining 1000.00.

Jean

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Author: legalwordwarrior Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867351 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/16/2012 9:57 PM
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I think you may be correct. However, in Texas we also have homestead exemptions that would prevent a debt collector from going after the home of the surviving spouse.

But the bank could freeze the checking account. When my stepdad died, he had a small individual account that had about $1100.00 in it. The woman at the bank told Mom that only my stepdad could close the account. At this point she was unaware that he had passed away the day before. Mom took out his debit card and emptied all but $100 out of the account over two days. The account was frozen on the third day.

She needed the cash to be able to pay for part of his funeral service and cremation. Both of their other accounts were joint with rights of survivor, and the bank never froze them. Mom took a copy of his death certificate in to them about 6 weeks later and had his name removed from the accounts.

He only had one credit card and Mom paid that one off and closed it the following month.

LWW

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Author: Windowseat Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867352 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/16/2012 10:19 PM
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She needed the cash to be able to pay for part of his funeral service and cremation. Both of their other accounts were joint with rights of survivor, and the bank never froze them. Mom took a copy of his death certificate in to them about 6 weeks later and had his name removed from the accounts.

There was a time in New York state that the bank froze all the bank accounts when someone died, no matter who else had their name on it. I suppose that the legislature, in the grip of their usual "what could possibly go wrong?" mania, wanted to make sure that unauthorized people didn't empty the account. So bankers would occasionally help a newly bereaved people open an account of the their own and transfer most of the joint account to it. My mother went in herself and did that, and the bank was upset and said she shouldn't have done that. She didn't care. She needed to pay the bills.

Nancy
one time the NYS legislature passed a law saying that no autopsies, at all, of any kind, could be performed without the consent of the family, then expressed confusion when every DA in the state called up to scream at them.

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Author: Jeanwa Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867353 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/16/2012 10:53 PM
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I think you may be correct. However, in Texas we also have homestead exemptions that would prevent a debt collector from going after the home of the surviving spouse.


========================

I think you are right.

Too much "thinking" in this thread, mine icluded.

Which is why people need to see a professional.

There are ways to set up accounts so they don't go through probate.

Jean

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Author: legalwordwarrior Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867355 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/17/2012 3:00 PM
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Which is why people need to see a professional.

Amen to that!

There are ways to set up accounts so they don't go through probate.

One of my uncles set his estate up as an irrevocable trust to ensure that his widow didn't get spend happy in the first year after he died. It worked very well for her. 8 years out and she still has a nice little income from the trust.

LWW

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Author: xtn Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867356 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/17/2012 3:15 PM
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As an example, are you saying that a joint account is divided in half in determining the deceased spouse's property?

Jean


Isn't it? Don't half of the marital community assets become the estate of the decedent, and the other half remains the property of the surviving spouse?

xtn

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Author: Jeanwa Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867361 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/18/2012 1:35 AM
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Isn't it? Don't half of the marital community assets become the estate of the decedent, and the other half remains the property of the surviving spouse?

xtn
=================================

No, all of the community assets (except maybe the home) can be used to pay off the deceased's debts any remainder could be the property of the surviving spouse, depending on wills and stuff.

I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV.

I know how it works in WA State and what you are saying isn't how it works here.

You really need to talk to a professional in your state. Ask them questions with various examples. "If this then what happens" kind of thing.

Jean

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Author: vkg Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867363 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/18/2012 11:23 AM
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There are ways to set up accounts so they don't go through probate.

Jean


Probate can be avoided, but that doesn't mean the assets aren't subject to the debts of the estate or estate taxes.

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Author: Jeanwa Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867365 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/18/2012 11:52 AM
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Probate can be avoided, but that doesn't mean the assets aren't subject to the debts of the estate or estate taxes.

=========================================

Sorry, didn't mean to imply otherwise.

I was just giving another reason to talk to a professional.

Jean

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Author: InconclusiveFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867417 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/21/2012 5:42 AM
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It's kind of funny. I did not get married for the first time till I was 39. LOTS of people, excepting family, along the way kept asking me, "what are you waiting for?" In fact some accused me as being "too fussy." A co-worker once said, "you can't expect perfection."

Other funny stuff from people - I swear these are true:

- "A woman I know is interested in you - she's separated from her husband who is a cop." First of all she'd never met me. This was around the time of the OJ Simpson murder case. The guy didn't understand when I said to him, "So her husband is a cop, and I don't want to wake up in the middle of the night with a gun in my face and be the next Ron Goldman."

- "Remember Mary from college? Her husband just died and she's interested. He had lots of life insurance." The grass hadn't even started growing on her dead husband's grave, and the matchmakers were after me!

All along until I met my beautiful wife, I kept wondering "what's the hurry?" For example, I just found out that a young girl in our office - probably no more than 25, is getting divorced after a big fairytale wedding a few years ago.

Why is everyone in such a hurry to get married at such a young age??

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Author: GardenStateFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867422 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/21/2012 9:53 AM
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Why is everyone in such a hurry to get married at such a young age??

I got married at 24. He was 25. We'd been together four years by then. Everyone kept telling me I was "too young."

It'll be our 17th anniversary this March. So it's worked out.

We weren't "in a hurry."

We were just sure that it was working just fine.

Everyone's big argument was exactly that: "Why are you getting married at such a young age?"

It's a ridiculous argument.

If the argument is that one is cheating, violent, addicted to something, one is a saver and one a spender, one is deeply devout and the other secular, SOMETHING concretely incompatible that the person believes will truly become an issue in their marriage - that's one thing.

But to simply say that "You're too young?" to legal adults?

Really?

GSF

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Author: vkg Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867424 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/21/2012 10:28 AM
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But to simply say that "You're too young?" to legal adults?

Really?


Congratulations that your marriage is working.

Many are not ready to be married that young, but some people aren't ready to be married at any age.

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Author: ishtarastarte Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867427 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/21/2012 10:53 AM
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If a woman waits until she's 39 to get married, she may not ever be able to have children, considering that over 35 is "advanced maternal age".

Some women have no problems having kids over 40, others can't.

That whole biological clock thing.

In our 20s and 30s, our biology is screaming at us to have babies.

Since it's still the socially acceptable thing to get married before having babies. . .

Ishtar

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Author: sofaking6 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867428 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/21/2012 10:59 AM
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In our 20s and 30s, our biology is screaming at us to have babies.

Speak for yourself ;)

6, biological clockless

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Author: GardenStateFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867431 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/21/2012 1:18 PM
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Many are not ready to be married that young, but some people aren't ready to be married at any age.

Right. There is a big difference between "You are not nearly mature enough to make the compromises necessary for a solid marriage," (which is a specific comment about the human beings involved) and the general:

"You're too young!" which is an arbitrary, variable, rule-of-thumb about how NO ONE can possibly be mature enough at X age.

The second one, which is invariably the one that gets applied, is incredibly irritating.

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Author: spl241 Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867433 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/21/2012 3:18 PM
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InconclusiveFool:

Why is everyone in such a hurry to get married at such a young age??

Well, they're NOT, at least according to:
http://www.wisegeek.com/how-has-the-average-age-at-marriage-...

Currently the average marriage age in the US is 26.8 for men and 25.1 for women. In fact, in the last 20 years, both men and women show a considerable increase in age at marriage. Men are now on average two years older when they marry than the mean age of marriage for men in 1980. Women are three years older on average now, than the mean marriage age in the 1980.

<<I did not get married 'til I was 39. LOTS of people....kept asking me, "what are you waiting for?">>

Excuse my lol, but this is so opposite our route to marriage! I was 3 months shy of 22 and she was 19 and a month shy of 20. Her folks were asking why we were in such a big hurry. I don't how many times her mother wailed, "My daughter is going to be a teenaged bride and drop out of college....first one in the family who ever went to college. She's half-done and now she's 'ruining herself'!" My parents were a bit more muted, but I still got my share of doubts, especially from my Depression-era father about the economics of marrying young. Pop, like you, was an elder statesman of 38 when he and Mom got hitched. She was 24, and they got married in France during WW II while they were both in the army. I came along 9 months and 6 days later. :-) Years later, I asked Mom if I was a bastard. "Well, biologically, no."

I started teaching in '67 at $6K and we saw right away that no way would DW be able to "un-ruin" herself in terms of finishing her degree. Her not-so-vocal dad had a promising idea and did a little checking. He was also in WW II in No. Africa fighting the Germans and got malaria. He was discharged with a 20% disability that had a provision for greatly-reduced college tuition for children--married or not. This made my wife's completing college very do-able.

MIL is now 89. "I never dreamed I'd live long enough to see my own child on Medicare!" My teenaged bride and I celebrated our 45th anniversary last month.

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Author: ishtarastarte Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867437 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/21/2012 5:18 PM
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LOL - While I get that it doesn't happen for everyone, it does seem to for the majority.

Ishtar

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Author: Rael137 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867438 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/21/2012 5:30 PM
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I worked in a place were it seemed that just about everybody in my group were married and/or had at least one divorce. Several of them had two divorces. One woman (35) had just finished her 3rd divorce; that one was confusing since she changed her name each time and then reverted to her birth name betweentimes. Most of the people in the group were mid to late 20's to early 40's.

So is it better to stay single or to marry the wrong person or for the wrong reasons?

I'll take answer A.

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Author: Rael137 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867440 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/21/2012 5:41 PM
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Years later, I asked Mom if I was a bastard. "Well, biologically,no."

She sounds like a great character! :)

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Author: InconclusiveFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867443 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/21/2012 7:37 PM
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"One woman (35) had just finished her 3rd divorce; that one was confusing since she changed her name each time and then reverted to her birth name between times."

I have an even better story. I worked with a woman for about 30 years till she took advantage of an early retirement opportunity about a year ago. We just about started on the same day together back in the early '80's, and worked either in the same office or near each other for the entire time. years she was divorced about 3 times - so much so that I lost track of her last name. The icing on the cake - this is 100% true - just before she retired, she had a sex change operation, and she (now he) and her/his current husband were going to stay together!! Truth really is stranger than fiction!

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Author: spl241 Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867463 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/22/2012 5:01 PM
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I couldn't shake this thread's topic after hearing that a long-time couple we've socialized with for several years were calling it quits. They always seemed so happy, carefree, and so forth in early retirement at 61 and 58. This was definitely one of those "...behind closed doors" things I guess. DW and I are still half-numb in disbelief.

Here are some mixed thoughts from http://www.ksl.com/?nid=1010&sid=21168874). Some are pretty grim, as you'll see. One Bowling Green U. sociology professor has probed the >50 growing divorce trend for several years....

"Back in 1990, fewer than one in 10 people who got divorced were over 50, and we find that today, one in four people getting divorced are 50 and older," said Professor Susan Brown. "The gray divorce revolution" points out marriage isn't what it used to be (and) suggests marriage is becoming more optional. People don't have to be married to be happy in life."

Professor Brown's studies showed that women in this age group are the primary initiators of decisions to divorce. There are at least 3 reasons for this: 1) today's 50+ women are more financially independent than in times past; 2) there's much less social pressure from all sides for women to stay married; and 3) there's much more focus on the importance of individual happiness. AARP's Love and Relationship Ambassador Pepper Schwartz has this to say about women's decision to take assertive charge of their own lives: "They're often the ones who get tired of doing all the work, and at a certain point, they say, 'I'm not getting back what I need here!'"

Have you noticed the growing number of social media site ads on TV with 2 united and delighted "grayheads" offering their testimonies? If Ms. Brown's most dire prediction is even close to correct, these sites which identify 50+ demographic targets have a bright future ahead. What is her grim prediction?

In the next 20 years, we will see a 25% increase in divorce in people 50 and over.

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Author: solesister Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867467 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 9/22/2012 10:16 PM
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the 2 smartest things I ever did were to get married, and to wait until I was past 30 to do so.

I understand a lot of women want to get married so they can have kids in their 20's & 30's, but I don't see what good it does you, the potential kids, or the rest of the world, to marry a guy you're not sure about, just so you'll have daddy material

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Author: llamalluv Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867636 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 10/1/2012 10:08 AM
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How does community property work in a case of spousal identity theft? For instance, say Gary completely loses his crackers, and goes on a spending binge, applying for new credit cards in both our names (forging my signature). Assuming the innocent spouse presses charges, would they still be liable for the debts that exceed 50% of the marital assets?

And what about debts from before marriage like student loans? I've read comments from a lot of people saying that they would not marry their long-term partner until their partners loans are paid off. They live with them, have kids with them, own property with them, etc, but they refuse to get married because they are afraid of being saddled with $100K or more in law or medical school debt if their spouse dies.

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Author: RoadScholar5 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869490 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 12/11/2012 2:05 PM
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I was divorced in my 40s, now enjoying single life and in a great relationship...my mate wants to take it farther, possibly living together and maybe marriage, but I just don't see the point.
It seems to me that marriage won't bring us any additional benefits beyond what we are enjoying now and could possibly bring legal or financial risk.

Oh well, it's interesting.

RS

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Author: Brooklyn1948 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869499 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 12/11/2012 5:39 PM
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I just Googled "divorce rate of second marriages".
There is an article in Psychology Today that states that second marriages have a divorce rate of 67% and third marriages 73%.
Those don't sound like good odds to me.

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Author: vkg Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869500 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 12/11/2012 6:02 PM
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I just Googled "divorce rate of second marriages".
There is an article in Psychology Today that states that second marriages have a divorce rate of 67% and third marriages 73%.
Those don't sound like good odds to me.


Better than their first marriages, which had a 100% failure rate.

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869505 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 12/11/2012 7:07 PM
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<<I was divorced in my 40s, now enjoying single life and in a great relationship...my mate wants to take it farther, possibly living together and maybe marriage, but I just don't see the point.
It seems to me that marriage won't bring us any additional benefits beyond what we are enjoying now and could possibly bring legal or financial risk.

Oh well, it's interesting.

RS
>>



Only gays are interested in marriage these days.

In Washington State, homosexuals have a certain period of time to convert domestic partnerships to marriage, but heterosexuals who choose domestic partnerships for various reasons (such as not losing Social Security benefits) can continue them indefinitely.



Seattle Pioneer



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: desertdaveataol Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869507 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 12/11/2012 7:48 PM
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Only gays are interested in marriage these days.

LOL!

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Author: RoadScholar5 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869622 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 12/16/2012 7:05 PM
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Seriously, if someone can come up with a compelling reason for marriage beyond what I am already enjoying by remaining single, I would like to hear it...perhaps I am missing something. Since it likely makes a difference, it is probably worth mentioning that I do not intend to raise any more children in the future. I am thoroughly enjoying the ones I already have...

SP, how are the Washingtonians reacting to the new Marijuana law?

RS - curious

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Author: vkg Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869632 of 884986
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate Up for 50+ Date: 12/17/2012 12:11 AM
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Seriously, if someone can come up with a compelling reason for marriage beyond what I am already enjoying by remaining single, I would like to hear it...

There are times when being legal next of kin makes life easier.

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