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Author: xLife Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 134534  
Subject: Does the right to bear arms... Date: 1/21/2013 10:39 AM
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... apply to Palestinians too?

I mean do they have the God-given right to possess weapons and use them in self defense and to fight a tyrannical government?
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Author: Colovion Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 114498 of 134534
Subject: Re: Does the right to bear arms... Date: 1/21/2013 10:48 AM
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... apply to Palestinians too?

I mean do they have the God-given right to possess weapons and use them in self defense and to fight a tyrannical government?


Yes. Not to shoot civilians in their homes as part of the Intifada though. They should be shooting their Hamas and Hezbollah leaders, they're the one's causing the oppression.

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Author: xLife Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 114501 of 134534
Subject: Re: Does the right to bear arms... Date: 1/21/2013 11:00 AM
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Yes. Not to shoot civilians in their homes as part of the Intifada though. They should be shooting their Hamas and Hezbollah leaders, they're the one's causing the oppression.


So are you saying that while God gives them the right to resist tyranny with arms, you are the one who gets to decide for them, who the tyrants are?

Seems like a very strange arrangement.

P.S. Hezbollah is Lebanese, not Palestinian.

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Author: Colovion Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 114505 of 134534
Subject: Re: Does the right to bear arms... Date: 1/21/2013 11:49 AM
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So are you saying that while God gives them the right to resist tyranny with arms, you are the one who gets to decide for them, who the tyrants are?

Hey, the facts are that Hamas has done the Palestinians infinitely more harm than the Israelis have. All the Israelis have done is defend themselves against attacks.

Not that Israel has a great score when it comes to allowing their people to exercise their right to keep and bear arms either (you need to get permission from the state to exercise that right, hardly the hallmark of liberty IMHO).

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Author: xLife Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 114506 of 134534
Subject: Re: Does the right to bear arms... Date: 1/21/2013 11:50 AM
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Not to shoot civilians in their homes as part of the Intifada though

To be clear, I agree with this part.

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Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 114511 of 134534
Subject: Re: Does the right to bear arms... Date: 1/21/2013 12:39 PM
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You guys realize that Felix mischaracterizes your arguments, then runs over to PA to call what gets posted here racist, right?

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Author: Colovion Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 114516 of 134534
Subject: Re: Does the right to bear arms... Date: 1/21/2013 2:10 PM
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You guys realize that Felix mischaracterizes your arguments, then runs over to PA to call what gets posted here racist, right?

Hey, he studied for his MBA at a racist institution of higher learning so I suppose he's the expert ;-)

/MLK Day is not an officially recognized holiday at the University of Michigan, ergo using lib-logic it is a vehmently racist institution, just like AZ was a racist state for not recognizing the holiday.

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Author: xLife Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 114522 of 134534
Subject: Re: Does the right to bear arms... Date: 1/21/2013 2:58 PM
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You guys realize that Felix mischaracterizes your arguments, then runs over to PA to call what gets posted here racist, right?

What do you get when you cross Pinnochio and a tattle tale?

Whose argument did I mischaracterize?

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Author: xLife Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 114540 of 134534
Subject: Re: Does the right to bear arms... Date: 1/21/2013 5:49 PM
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Hey, the facts are that Hamas has done the Palestinians infinitely more harm than the Israelis have. All the Israelis have done is defend themselves against attacks.

You might want to brush up on your history. Palestinians have been living under military occupation, with inferior rights, for 46 or 65 years, depending on who you ask.

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Author: xLife Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 114541 of 134534
Subject: Re: Does the right to bear arms... Date: 1/21/2013 5:55 PM
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You're in luck.

Stevenjklein posted this recently on the Middle East Politics board.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gijoD_4_t0I

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Author: Vile Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 114543 of 134534
Subject: Re: Does the right to bear arms... Date: 1/21/2013 7:23 PM
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"You guys realize that Felix mischaracterizes your arguments, then runs over to PA to call what gets posted here racist, right?"

That's what intellectually dishonest people do. Though I haven't been there in years, it doesn't surprise me a bit. That's the way he rolls.

Let me put on my shocked face. :0

Cheers,

Vile
NEVER SAY DIE!!!

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Author: xLife Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 114547 of 134534
Subject: Re: Does the right to bear arms... Date: 1/21/2013 9:39 PM
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"You guys realize that Felix mischaracterizes your arguments, then runs over to PA to call what gets posted here racist, right?"

That's what intellectually dishonest people do.


Maybe, but it's not what I do. Dope lied.

Saying Obama wants to confiscate everyone's guns is paranoid. Using black English to denigrate Obama voters is racist. I've said so here. I'm consistent and honest about my opinion.

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Author: Vile Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 114561 of 134534
Subject: Re: Does the right to bear arms... Date: 1/22/2013 8:42 AM
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"Saying Obama wants to confiscate everyone's guns is paranoid."

Nothing could be further from the truth. I have provided ample evidence he wants to do just that yet you ignore it and continue to denigrate the poster. What's wrong with you?

You can't point to a single pro-gun piece of legislation he has supported nor can you point to any anti-gun legislation he has opposed but I can point to words and deeds that will always point to him being a gun grabber. You lost this one a long time ago but as usual, you can't admit defeat.

Cheers,

Vile
NEVER SAY DIE!!!

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Author: Colovion Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 114562 of 134534
Subject: Re: Does the right to bear arms... Date: 1/22/2013 9:14 AM
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You can't point to a single pro-gun piece of legislation he has supported

To be fair I think there was one pro-gun bill he supported when he was Senator... if I recall it was a bill banning the feds from confiscating firearms in a state-of-emergency in response to their doing just that in the aftermath of Katrina. Of course he also said that raising the debt limit was an abdication of our responsibilities when he was a Senator so I'm not sure we can hold him to any of the responsible stances he took back then as he's basically abandoned them in droves at this point.

He did support the odious Kennedy amendment that would have banned most hunting cartridges as they are more than capable of penetrating standard police-issued body armor (which are only rated to stop handgun rounds, not rifle rounds, something the gun-grabbers didn't know when they wrote it apparently). While Kennedy later said that this wasn't the intent of the law that hardly matters... unintended consequences are just as real as the intended ones (unless you're a lib, in which case the goal justifies any and all unintended consequences).

At best his record as a US Senator was a wash when it comes to gun owners rights and that's being very generous. Everything before that and since, of course, has shown his true colors on the subject and they are NOT pro-freedom.

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 114563 of 134534
Subject: Re: Does the right to bear arms... Date: 1/22/2013 9:18 AM
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In 1996, Obama answered “Yes” to a survey question asking whether he would support state legislation to “ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns.” The Obama 2008 presidential campaign claimed the form had been filled out by an aide who mischaracterized Obama’s position, even though Obama’s handwriting was found on survey.

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 114564 of 134534
Subject: Re: Does the right to bear arms... Date: 1/22/2013 9:21 AM
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http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/09/24/Four-More...

he supported an Illinois bill that would have not only banned but also confiscated "assault weapons" had it passed; and he supported a total ban on handguns.

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Author: xLife Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 114566 of 134534
Subject: Re: Does the right to bear arms... Date: 1/22/2013 9:29 AM
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"Saying Obama wants to confiscate everyone's guns is paranoid."
---
Nothing could be further from the truth. I have provided ample evidence he wants to do just that...


No, you have not. You've provided one 20-year-old "quote," that's not even a real quote but hearsay from a conservative gun advocate who claims Obama told him he didn't think anyone should own guns. And you provided an old video clip of Eric Holder when he was a D.C. D.A. talking about making guns "uncool," like cigarettes, to Washington kids.


...yet you ignore it and continue to denigrate the poster. What's wrong with you?

Denigrate? You're the one doing all the name-calling. In the post Dope refers to, I didn't even mention your name. I've told you again and again that your fear that Obama wants to confiscate all guns is groundless, i.e. paranoid.



You can't point to a single pro-gun piece of legislation he has supported nor can you point to any anti-gun legislation he has opposed...

So what? I never claimed he's supported "pro-gun" legislation. I'm not arguing that he's "pro-gun." I'm saying you are paranoid for thinking Obama -- or anyone else of any political significance -- wants to confiscate everyone's guns. The most severe legislation being proposed is to ban assault weapons, high-capacity magazines and universal background checks. You may not like that, but it's not across-the-board firearms ban like what they have in Japan. It's not even close.


...but I can point to words and deeds that will always point to him being a gun grabber.

Okay, but since to you "gun grabber" seems to mean anyone who doesn't agree with you about gun control, that's easy for you. For example, I think gun ownership should be legal for nearly every adult, yet you consider me a gun grabber. Since you define the term however you like, you get to decide you fits it. The debate isn't over whether Obama's a "gun grabber" or whether you're a "gun nut."


You lost this one a long time ago but as usual, you can't admit defeat.

LOL. It is amusing how often you make arguments by assertion and ad hominem, cite "evidence" that's not evidence, then declare yourself the winner of an argument, again by mere assertion. It's like playing chess with someone who thinks that to win the game all they have to do is move a piece to their opponent's back row.

This specific argument -- over whether you are paranoid or not -- can't be won. It's an opinion based on the extreme nature of your statements and the vehemence of your vitriol. Perhaps a psychiatrist could settle it.

The argument over whether Obama is a "gun grabber" or not can't be decided, since you can define "gun grabber" any way you want.

The argument over whether Obama wants to confiscate all firearms can't really be won either, since only The Shadow knows what lurks in the hearts of men. But at least here, we can look at available evidence. He has proposed no such thing. And besides, a mass confiscation of American's guns is politically and practically impossible. Worrying about it is like worrying about an space alien invasion. To fear such a thing is, simply, hysterically paranoid.

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Author: xLife Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 114568 of 134534
Subject: Re: Does the right to bear arms... Date: 1/22/2013 9:33 AM
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Thanks Colovion.

You've illustrated well the difference between informed concern and illogical paranoia.

We may not often agree, but I appreciate the depth of your knowledge on this issue and respect your insights and opinions.

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Author: iamski Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 114570 of 134534
Subject: Re: Does the right to bear arms... Date: 1/22/2013 9:49 AM
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"Saying Obama wants to confiscate everyone's guns is paranoid."



Some were paranoid about the government outlawing toys in Happy Meals and outlawing 32 oz. Coca Cola's also.

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Author: xLife Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 114573 of 134534
Subject: Re: Does the right to bear arms... Date: 1/22/2013 10:08 AM
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Some were paranoid about the government outlawing toys in Happy Meals and outlawing 32 oz. Coca Cola's also.

Good point, sort of. I think those are stupid laws. But neither really constitutes a ban of anything.

McDonalds easily skirted the San Francisco Happy Meal toy ban by lowering the cost of the meal by 10 cents, then charging 10 cents for the toy.

You can buy as much soda as you like in New York at the store, or even in fast-food restaurants, just not in ginormous containers. Idiotic on its face and despite the "nanny state" nature of it, it's intended to reduce childhood obesity, which is a real problem. Besides, the state regulates all kinds of toxic ingredients. And make no mistake, the 128 grams of high-fructose corn syrup in one 7-11 Big Guld is toxic, especially to 80-pound kid.

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Author: Radish Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 114612 of 134534
Subject: Re: Does the right to bear arms... Date: 1/22/2013 5:36 PM
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xLife,

You can buy as much soda as you like in New York at the store, or even in fast-food restaurants, just not in ginormous containers.

Haven't kept up on this. Did NY actually pass the ban? If so, how does it work in the restaurants where you fill the cup yourself at a customer-accessible soda fountain? Specifically, how do they handle that the maximum cup size for, say, Coke is 32 oz. but there's no limit on the cup size for Diet Coke?

Phil

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Author: xLife Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 114615 of 134534
Subject: Re: Does the right to bear arms... Date: 1/22/2013 5:45 PM
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Haven't kept up on this. Did NY actually pass the ban?

Yes.

If so, how does it work in the restaurants where you fill the cup yourself at a customer-accessible soda fountain?

Don't think so. How could it?

It's a stupid law. But the way soft drinks are priced in some fast-food restaurants (and theaters!) is ridiculous too. If it motivates free refills, then good.

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Author: Radish Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 114616 of 134534
Subject: Re: Does the right to bear arms... Date: 1/22/2013 5:50 PM
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xLife,

Don't think so. How could it?

I think you misunderstand my question. My question is: how do the restaurants deal with the law? Did they stop selling larger than 32 oz. cups even though they are legal with non-sugar drinks? Did they keep selling them, but print "not for sugar drinks" on them? Do they ask what drink you intend to fill the cup with when you order?

Just wondering how, in the real world, this law works.

Phil

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Author: xLife Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 114618 of 134534
Subject: Re: Does the right to bear arms... Date: 1/22/2013 5:53 PM
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I think you misunderstand my question. My question is: how do the restaurants deal with the law? Did they stop selling larger than 32 oz. cups even though they are legal with non-sugar drinks? Did they keep selling them, but print "not for sugar drinks" on them? Do they ask what drink you intend to fill the cup with when you order?

Yes, I misunderstood.

I have no idea how restaurants handle this in practice. I don't live in NYC and when I visit, don't go to fast food joints.

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Author: Radish Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 115850 of 134534
Subject: Re: Does the right to bear arms... Date: 2/25/2013 6:58 PM
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xLife,

Haven't kept up on this. Did NY actually pass the ban? If so, how does it work in the restaurants where you fill the cup yourself at a customer-accessible soda fountain? Specifically, how do they handle that the maximum cup size for, say, Coke is 32 oz. but there's no limit on the cup size for Diet Coke? — Radish

Yes [the ban has passed]. ... I have no idea how restaurants handle this in practice. I don't live in NYC and when I visit, don't go to fast food joints. — xLife


Apparently the ban has not actually gone into effect, and doesn't until March 12th.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/02/25/bloomberg-soda-ba...

"The ban on sodas over 16 ounces takes effect on March 12, and the New York Post reports it has some previously uncontemplated effects. For instance, ordering a 2-liter bottle of Coke, Pepsi, Sprite or whatever the family desires with a pizza delivery won’t be allowed. Even pitchers of soda at children’s birthday parties are going to be a no-no under Bloomberg’s far-reaching ban, according to the paper."

Phil

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 115853 of 134534
Subject: Re: Does the right to bear arms... Date: 2/25/2013 7:21 PM
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Apparently the ban has not actually gone into effect, and doesn't until March 12th.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/02/25/bloomberg-soda-ba......
___________________

I was reading on of the cool aspects today. Places like Dominos -- can no longer deliver something like a 64 oz soda with a pizza delivery!

This is so cool. I love when the absurdity of the beliefs of folks like our trolls become evident(to all of course except the trolls)

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