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Author: 2828 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 734411  
Subject: Don't Read This Date: 11/27/2012 3:59 PM
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http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142412788732335320457812...

The actual liabilities of the federal government—including Social Security, Medicare, and federal employees' future retirement benefits—already exceed $86.8 trillion, or 550% of GDP. For the year ending Dec. 31, 2011, the annual accrued expense of Medicare and Social Security was $7 trillion. Nothing like that figure is used in calculating the deficit. In reality, the reported budget deficit is less than one-fifth of the more accurate figure.

Why haven't Americans heard about the titanic $86.8 trillion liability from these programs? One reason: The actual figures do not appear in black and white on any balance sheet. But it is possible to discover them. Included in the annual Medicare Trustees' report are separate actuarial estimates of the unfunded liability for Medicare Part A (the hospital portion), Part B (medical insurance) and Part D (prescription drug coverage).

As of the most recent Trustees' report in April, the net present value of the unfunded liability of Medicare was $42.8 trillion. The comparable balance sheet liability for Social Security is $20.5 trillion.
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When the accrued expenses of the government's entitlement programs are counted, it becomes clear that to collect enough tax revenue just to avoid going deeper into debt would require over $8 trillion in tax collections annually. That is the total of the average annual accrued liabilities of just the two largest entitlement programs, plus the annual cash deficit.

Nothing like that $8 trillion amount is available for the IRS to target. According to the most recent tax data, all individuals filing tax returns in America and earning more than $66,193 per year have a total adjusted gross income of $5.1 trillion. In 2006, when corporate taxable income peaked before the recession, all corporations in the U.S. had total income for tax purposes of $1.6 trillion. That comes to $6.7 trillion available to tax from these individuals and corporations under existing tax laws.

In short, if the government confiscated the entire adjusted gross income of these American taxpayers, plus all of the corporate taxable income in the year before the recession, it wouldn't be nearly enough to fund the over $8 trillion per year in the growth of U.S. liabilities. Some public officials and pundits claim we can dig our way out through tax increases on upper-income earners, or even all taxpayers. In reality, that would amount to bailing out the Pacific Ocean with a teaspoon. Only by addressing these unsustainable spending commitments can the nation's debt and deficit problems be solved.
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This will help you understand how unserious democrats are, and how they'll use the ignorance of their base, and the ignorance is staggering mind you, to make this into a political winner for themselves by demonizing anyone who even wants to address the real issue. The democrats win, but at a cost to everyone, including their hayseed base. TwoPair hit the nail on the head in an earlier post.
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Author: twopairfullhouse Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 657124 of 734411
Subject: Re: Don't Read This Date: 11/27/2012 5:03 PM
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TwoPair hit the nail on the head in an earlier post.

Thanks, I guess. It's depressing when you think about how ignorant people must be to not see the debt problem we're facing. We're close to a death spiral, and no one cares, as long as they 'get theirs', and as long as 'the rich' (defined as anyone making more than them) gets the shaft.

I defy anyone on the left to take a shot at solving a single major financial problem, such as entitlement reform, moving toward balancing the budget, growing the economy above 2.5%, or lowering unemployment below 7%. They don't care, because their guy won, and Romney can't prevent abortions or some other such nonsense.

In fact, I'll lower the bar further. Someone on the left tell me what would definitively constitute failure on the part of Obama (or success, but the media has already declared him successful, so I prefer to have something a bit more, shall we say, concrete). $20 trillion national debt? Another recession? 10% unemployment, even fudging the numbers? They don't even have the courage to define objective parameters of success and failure. How do we expect them to demand that any problem actually get solved?

We are in that place where we have a small window within which to save ourselves, but where no one apparently gives a d@mn. By the time enough realize the problem and ask that something be done, it will in all likelihood be too late. Some of us are pointing at the iceberg, but the rest of the ship is having too good a time in the ballroom.

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 657127 of 734411
Subject: Re: Don't Read This Date: 11/27/2012 5:09 PM
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I defy anyone on the left to take a shot at solving a single major financial problem, such as entitlement reform, moving toward balancing the budget, growing the economy above 2.5%, or lowering unemployment below 7%. They don't care, because their guy won, and Romney can't prevent abortions or some other such nonsense.
____________________________

I am pretty sure it was about paying for their contraceptives actually. I actually just heard Sarrah Fluke today -- you know women of the year? I have my suspicions on how she got that to with a 100 dollar a month birth control habit.

I want to know why these folks want to save PBS, there is no way they can be spending that much on birth control and have the time or energy to be watching TV or listening to radio.

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Author: MadCapitalist Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 657132 of 734411
Subject: Re: Don't Read This Date: 11/27/2012 5:18 PM
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This will help you understand how unserious democrats are, and how they'll use the ignorance of their base, and the ignorance is staggering mind you, to make this into a political winner for themselves by demonizing anyone who even wants to address the real issue. The democrats win, but at a cost to everyone, including their hayseed base. TwoPair hit the nail on the head in an earlier post.

"Yeah, but we owe it to ourselves, so it's, like, free or something."
- Paul Krugman

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Author: CCinOC Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 657139 of 734411
Subject: Re: Don't Read This Date: 11/27/2012 6:19 PM
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"Someone on the left tell me what would definitively constitute failure on the part of Obama...$20 trillion national debt? Another recession? 10% unemployment..."

It's coming.

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Author: CCinOC Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 657141 of 734411
Subject: Re: Don't Read This Date: 11/27/2012 6:24 PM
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lowstudent wrote: I am pretty sure it was about paying for their contraceptives actually.

Hindsight is 20/20, but it would've been better to say to libruls, "Of course we'll pay for your contraceptives!" Of course we wouldn't dream of interfering with a woman's right to choose!"

It's fair play to say one thing and mean another, as Owebama has shown.

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Author: ariechert Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 657166 of 734411
Subject: Re: Don't Read This Date: 11/27/2012 11:08 PM
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"It's depressing when you think about how ignorant people must be to not see the debt problem we're facing." - twopairfullhouse


Maybe I should just go get a good sharp knife and slit my own throat?

What the hell good does it do to sit and worry about it all day long? Do you really honestly believe that the Federal Government gives a hoot what I or anyone else thinks? I'm an old fat retired man living on a little pension plus a bit of IRA money. No one gives a damn what I think so why should I sit around all day worrying about it? All it does is make me depressed. Talking about it constantly and dwelling on it all the time is depressing as hell.

Better to just go on living my life.

Artie

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 657167 of 734411
Subject: Re: Don't Read This Date: 11/27/2012 11:14 PM
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Talking about it constantly and dwelling on it all the time is depressing as hell.

____________________

Well there's your problem! Talk about it more, not less, then you'll get mad

when you get mad you get an adrenaline rush

When you get an adrenaline rush you get up and do things

when you get up and do things you get more energy

when you get more energy you get the urge to exercise

when you have exercise for a little while you get an endorphin blast

when you get an endorphin blast it makes you happy and you feel good

proof positive politics is good for ya!<grin>

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Author: CCinOC Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 657169 of 734411
Subject: Re: Don't Read This Date: 11/28/2012 12:28 AM
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ariechert wrote: What the hell good does it do to sit and worry about it all day long? Do you really honestly believe that the Federal Government gives a hoot what I or anyone else thinks? I'm an old fat retired man living on a little pension plus a bit of IRA money. No one gives a damn what I think so why should I sit around all day worrying about it? All it does is make me depressed. Talking about it constantly and dwelling on it all the time is depressing as hell. Better to just go on living my life.

Voter/citizen apathy is why we are where we are today. We get the government we deserve.

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Author: twopairfullhouse Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 657194 of 734411
Subject: Re: Don't Read This Date: 11/28/2012 9:37 AM
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Good for you, Artie. I have 4 children, so I guess I don't have the luxury of giving up, or simply ignoring the problem and hoping it goes away.

I see what Greece is now, and I see America headed there, and most Americans today are apparently thinking like the Greeks did 10 years ago, which is, "Ah, it'll always be this way. We'll never run out of money. We can always borrow."

The party's always fun until someone takes the punchbowl away. And then we're where Greece is now. Riots, 25% unemployment -- a different kind of party, you might say.

Yes, it is depressing, made even moreso by the fact that the media is simply a branch of the Obama campaign (and as far as I can tell, the campaign never ended).

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Author: ariechert Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 657204 of 734411
Subject: Re: Don't Read This Date: 11/28/2012 10:55 AM
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"Good for you, Artie. I have 4 children, so I guess I don't have the luxury of giving up, or simply ignoring the problem and hoping it goes away." - twopairfullhouse

-----------------


Well you can do like my sister does and write long scathing letters to your congressmen telling them how to run the country.

I'm sure they'll listen to you. <grin!>

Art

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Author: ariechert Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 657205 of 734411
Subject: Re: Don't Read This Date: 11/28/2012 10:58 AM
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"The party's always fun until someone takes the punchbowl away. And then we're where Greece is now. Riots, 25% unemployment -- a different kind of party, you might say.

Yes, it is depressing, made even moreso by the fact that the media is simply a branch of the Obama campaign (and as far as I can tell, the campaign never ended)." twopairfullhouse



I'm more afraid of Tele's Peak Oil. I just hope it lasts as long as I do. After that I doubt I'll care.

I'm thinking maybe ~ 15 to 20 more years and then I'm out of here. You don't see too many really old fat men. Most really old men are little and thin. At least I won't have to worry Peak Oil and the debt and collapsing Social Security. I'll be dead.

Art

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Author: twopairfullhouse Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 657208 of 734411
Subject: Re: Don't Read This Date: 11/28/2012 11:18 AM
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Art,

You must have good meds to be so calm.

What are you taking, Dammitol? Skrewitol? Whatever it is, I hope it's covered by ObamaKare, so the rest of us can while away the decline of the Republic in relative painlessness. ;-)

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Author: ariechert Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 657210 of 734411
Subject: Re: Don't Read This Date: 11/28/2012 11:27 AM
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"Art, You must have good meds to be so calm. What are you taking, Dammitol? Skrewitol? Whatever it is, I hope it's covered by ObamaKare, so the rest of us can while away the decline of the Republic in relative painlessness. ;-)" - twopairfullhouse


There is a verse in the New Testament that says something to the effect of "why worry about tomorrow? Doesn't each have trouble enough for itself?"

What good does it do for me to worry too much about it? It's not like I can do anything about it and/or have any affect on others behavior.

It's like Tele said, any gas or oil that we don't use the Chinese or Indians will be more than glad to suck up and use. It's a world market for gas and oil so any gas or oil that I don't burn or use their is someone else in the world that will. 7 billion people is a lot of people.

And as far as the National Debt? Well, like my mom used to say "you just got to live in this world kiddo!" I was just thinking the other day how fast life is going by. My next birthday I'll be 60 years old. When I started posting on this board I was 48 years old! There's a big difference between 48 and 60 years of age yet they've gone by in the blink of an eye. It doesn't seem that long ago to me and it was Y2K and everyone was worried their computers were going to crash. In just about a month it will be 2013. 2013, Can you believe it?

If I had known I was going to live this long I would have taken better care of myself. {grin!}

Art

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Author: ariechert Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 657211 of 734411
Subject: Re: Don't Read This Date: 11/28/2012 11:29 AM
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"Doesn't each have trouble enough for itself?"


Correction: "Doesn't each day have trouble enough for itself?"

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Author: CCinOC Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 657215 of 734411
Subject: Re: Don't Read This Date: 11/28/2012 12:04 PM
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ariechert wrote: Well you can do like my sister does and write long scathing letters to your congressmen telling them how to run the country.

Well, if all of us who actually give a sh!t did this on a regular basis, we wouldn't be in the condition we're in.

Voter/citizen apathy. We get the government we deserve.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 657219 of 734411
Subject: Re: Don't Read This Date: 11/28/2012 12:38 PM
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artimus: "I'm thinking maybe ~ 15 to 20 more years and then I'm out of here. You don't see too many really old fat men. Most really old men are little and thin. At least I won't have to worry Peak Oil and the debt and collapsing Social Security. I'll be dead. "

My uncle , who was the only male on my father's side who made it past 77, was 5'10 and thin.....made it to 94, with all but the last six months or so in good health. Before that, he'd take nice walks, go swimming every day, eat good meals...... he and his wife, who made it into her 80s....had no kids.....

Last few years in nice assisted living place where he had an 'apartment' and they provided cleaning service and two meals a day......


The first born on my dad's side died in his 50s...he was big time smoker....and over weight..... ones who lived the longest were the thinnest ones.....


t.

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 657243 of 734411
Subject: Re: Don't Read This Date: 11/28/2012 4:12 PM
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but the rest of the ship is having too good a time in the ballroom.

Could you please direct me to the ballroom?
Yours truly,

Bill Clinton

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 657245 of 734411
Subject: Re: Don't Read This Date: 11/28/2012 4:15 PM
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We get the government we deserve.

Obama voters got what they deserve. I didn't. I deserve much better.

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Author: CCinOC Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 657253 of 734411
Subject: Re: Don't Read This Date: 11/28/2012 4:57 PM
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JoshRandall wrote: Obama voters got what they deserve. I didn't. I deserve much better.

Clearly, with Congress at an impasse, threatening to go off the fiscal cliff, not enough of us are making our voices heard.

How to Write to Your Congressional Representatives

http://www.house.gov/representatives/find

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Author: ariechert Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 657257 of 734411
Subject: Re: Don't Read This Date: 11/28/2012 5:10 PM
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"The first born on my dad's side died in his 50s...he was big time smoker....and over weight..... ones who lived the longest were the thinnest ones." - tele


Yeah, I realize that. Like I said, you don't see too many fat old men. A few, but not many. But I'm about 75% confident in my "life after death" beliefs so maybe I'll wake up on the other side in some kind of strange energy body or something. If not it's not like I'll be worried or sad about it? I just won't exist which won't be any different than before I was conceived. Every single person that was ever born so far has died at some point and time. There's been some science fiction written about people who live forever but as far as I know it hasn't happened.

Maybe AOLFoolman will be the first one to live forever. If that makes him happy..... I'm happy for him.

Art

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 657269 of 734411
Subject: Re: Don't Read This Date: 11/28/2012 6:22 PM
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Already done.

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Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 657276 of 734411
Subject: Re: Don't Read This Date: 11/28/2012 7:04 PM
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JoshRandall wrote: Obama voters got what they deserve. I didn't. I deserve much better.

Clearly, with Congress at an impasse, threatening to go off the fiscal cliff, not enough of us are making our voices heard.


The so-called "fiscal cliff" would be a passable start on what this country needs its government to do.

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Author: Colovion Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 657277 of 734411
Subject: Re: Don't Read This Date: 11/28/2012 7:18 PM
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In other words: stick a fork in the United States, we're D-O-N-E. no politician who even acknowledges the scope of the problem can be elected in "la-la-la-la we can't hear you just give us our free shtuff!" America. Far too many don't even want to hear the truth, let alone face it.

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Author: LuckyDog2002 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 657278 of 734411
Subject: Re: Don't Read This Date: 11/28/2012 7:25 PM
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"It's depressing when you think about how ignorant people must be to not see the debt problem we're facing." - twopairfullhouse


Maybe I should just go get a good sharp knife and slit my own throat?

What the hell good does it do to sit and worry about it all day long? Do you really honestly believe that the Federal Government gives a hoot what I or anyone else thinks? I'm an old fat retired man living on a little pension plus a bit of IRA money. No one gives a damn what I think so why should I sit around all day worrying about it? All it does is make me depressed. Talking about it constantly and dwelling on it all the time is depressing as hell.

Better to just go on living my life.

Artie


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

well, I must point out a couple of differences between your situation and mine.

1. I don't have a spouse who has a guaranteed job and income and she wants to keep working.

2. I don't have a pension

These two differences provide an emotional and financial cushion against any downturn in income from investments or ruin.

So perhaps because of this cushion you don't really concern with how the govt can really mess up your retirement/style of living. If I was married, I'd probably feel secure too in knowing that well, my honey can help me out financially or will take care of me in case I get laid up due to illness.

I can vote, I can position my investments as best I can to get income, and I can cut expenses, like cable would go, cell phone would go, using a just in time buy system instead of buying paper and other products in quantity. It would be awful to do though, habits die hard but older folks have done these things for a long time on their fixed incomes.

LD

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Author: MadCapitalist Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 657281 of 734411
Subject: Re: Don't Read This Date: 11/28/2012 8:08 PM
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It's depressing when you think about how ignorant people must be to not see the debt problem we're facing.

It's also depressing when they get re-elected as President or to Congress.

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Author: andrew61 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 657433 of 734411
Subject: Re: Don't Read This Date: 11/30/2012 1:25 AM
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And as far as the National Debt? Well, like my mom used to say "you just got to live in this world kiddo!" I was just thinking the other day how fast life is going by. My next birthday I'll be 60 years old. When I started posting on this board I was 48 years old! There's a big difference between 48 and 60 years of age yet they've gone by in the blink of an eye. It doesn't seem that long ago to me and it was Y2K and everyone was worried their computers were going to crash. In just about a month it will be 2013. 2013, Can you believe it?


When I first started posting on this board, I was 39 years old. Now I'm 51, going on 52. It's gone by in the blink of an eye for me also.

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Author: ariechert Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 657462 of 734411
Subject: Re: Don't Read This Date: 11/30/2012 10:00 AM
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"When I first started posting on this board, I was 39 years old. Now I'm 51, going on 52. It's gone by in the blink of an eye for me also." - Andrew


There is a big difference between 39 and 51. Thirty-nine years old is like the halfway point in life. If you think of life like a big bell curve, and since most men live to be about ~ 77 or 78 years old, then 39 would be at the top of the Bell Curve. You're right in the middle.

You've reached the summit fixing to don your skis and start flying down the other side of the mountain. Whereas 51 years old, while not quite the 3/4 mark - is not far from it. You've lived almost 2/3's of your life. You are now on the downslope, gathering speed toward the end.

You have to decide whether your life has meaning, whether there is a purpose in life. I don't know if it's a choice or not (I tend think not)?

So anyway, like the Dragon tells Dr. Taudo in "Transcendental Experiences of Scientists", "So, for a moment, you see. Relax. Don't take yourself so seriously! All is well. We are forever one."

http://www.issc-taste.org/arc/dbo.cgi?set=expom&id=00070...

Art

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Author: LuckyDog2002 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 657467 of 734411
Subject: Re: Don't Read This Date: 11/30/2012 10:04 AM
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And as far as the National Debt? Well, like my mom used to say "you just got to live in this world kiddo!" I was just thinking the other day how fast life is going by. My next birthday I'll be 60 years old. When I started posting on this board I was 48 years old! There's a big difference between 48 and 60 years of age yet they've gone by in the blink of an eye. It doesn't seem that long ago to me and it was Y2K and everyone was worried their computers were going to crash. In just about a month it will be 2013. 2013, Can you believe it?


When I first started posting on this board, I was 39 years old. Now I'm 51, going on 52. It's gone by in the blink of an eye for me also.
andrew

>>>>>>>>>did you retire when you were 39? I can't remember.

I agree, the days are moving faster and my body and mind are moving slower, mind more so. Another night of short sleep doesn't help. I'm going to call the doc up for a fresh batch of sleeping pills to keep on hand. I do not use them often only when it gets critical....it's critical now. I haven't been helping myself though, getting to bed later and later and it messes me up. I feel like an old fart having to get to bed between 9-930 each night...it really compresses my time and it slips away like water. Anyway, I'll be dead before I know it at the rate the days pass by so quickly.

LuckyCheerfulDog <s*>

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Author: ariechert Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 657483 of 734411
Subject: Re: Don't Read This Date: 11/30/2012 10:54 AM
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"I feel like an old fart having to get to bed between 9-930 each night...it really compresses my time and it slips away like water. Anyway, I'll be dead before I know it at the rate the days pass by so quickly." - LuckyCheerfulDog <s*>


I normally go to bed around midnight and wake up about ~ 8:30 in the morning. I figure that's about ~ 8 hours sleep so that's good enough. I also take naps in the afternoon quite frequently so that a few extra Z's too. I don't think I really have a problem sleeping.

I haven't eaten anything yet this morning. It's about ~ 10:00 am. maybe a bowl of cereal? I don't know. What I really like to eat for breakfast is a bowl of "Pho" with a little veggies and meat of some kind in it. I add a hot pepper like a thinly slivered jalapeno or Cholula pepper to give it a little kick and get the peristalsis going on in the lumen of my gut.

Art

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