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Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 62957  
Subject: Early Retirement now a Lost Art? Date: 2/1/2013 2:29 AM
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http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142412788732392610457827...

The American workplace is about to get grayer.

Nearly two-thirds of Americans between the ages of 45 and 60 say they plan to delay retirement, according to a report to be released Friday by the Conference Board. That was a steep jump from just two years earlier, when the group found that 42% of respondents expected to put off retirement.

</snip>


The Chickenhawk Decade of Bush/Cheney killed a lot of people's dreams.

intercst
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Author: salaryguru Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47604 of 62957
Subject: Re: Early Retirement now a Lost Art? Date: 2/1/2013 3:47 AM
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The Chickenhawk Decade of Bush/Cheney killed a lot of people's dreams.

Sometimes I feel so lucky. I really didn't even start thinking about retirement seriously until 1990 when I accidentally took a job working for Satan.

I had already been fortunate enough to be born in the richest country on earth, into a stable family of loving and supportive parents, with no serious mental or physical defects. I was fortunate enough to be interested in a field of study that was emerging as important and influential in both US strategic interests and global economic growth. I was fortunate that a State college offered reasonably priced, world class education in that field of interest. And I was fortunate enough to reach a point in my life when I wanted to consider retirement just as the US economy was starting to produce outstanding investment opportunities.

None of these fortunate events had anything to do with me. I was simply very lucky.

I sometimes think that one of the biggest differences between liberals and conservatives is that liberals recognize and acknowledge their good fortune while conservatives believe that their good fortune proves they are superior. Or conversely, that liberals recognize that bad luck can be responsible for unfortunate outcomes while conservatives are very happy blaming the victims.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47605 of 62957
Subject: Re: Early Retirement now a Lost Art? Date: 2/1/2013 8:56 AM
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intercst:"The Chickenhawk Decade of Bush/Cheney killed a lot of people's dreams."

So did the housing bust caused by 3 separate dem ramping up of the initial flawed CRA. Entire 'nest egg' of their house equity wiped out by voracious CEOs of Fannie and Freddie, who made off with hundreds of millions in loot.....and their cronies......(democrats) while tens of millions of folks saw their equity vaporize in a cloud of" Community Organizer force the banks to give crap loans" smoke

And now, the same joke of a liberal is in the WH, systematically destroying the future by binge borrowing.....on entitlement programs started mostly by democrats who had no concept of 'the bill will come due eventually'.

Just look to Chicago...and IL>....a failed democratic state...home of Senator Obama who went on to employ the same failed economic policies of borrow like there is no tommorrow......

Sorry, intercst...it's 40 years of progressiveness that has come home to roost.......under a radical leftie whose only interest is making everyone 'equal' and that will be equally poor.

Just like the socialist countries of Europe, you won't get to retire early. They suck the life blood out of you while you work with 70% effective tax rates...... and you hope the government will survive till they give you your 'government pension'.

I"d bet there is no 'retire early' board in France.....or Sweden or Finland or Denmark.....


t

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Author: BlueGrits Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47607 of 62957
Subject: Re: Early Retirement now a Lost Art? Date: 2/1/2013 12:16 PM
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Really, tele, repeating your shot down memes doesn't make them any truer.

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Author: jwiest Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47608 of 62957
Subject: Re: Early Retirement now a Lost Art? Date: 2/1/2013 1:49 PM
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I sometimes think that one of the biggest differences between liberals and conservatives ...

There is no "sometimes" about it for me. It's a consistent and reliable determinant of one's political views.

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47609 of 62957
Subject: Re: Early Retirement now a Lost Art? Date: 2/1/2013 4:09 PM
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<<At the meeting, the planner projected that Mr. Stern could retire at age 62. But now, with his assets down 10% to 20% from their 2008 peak, he is looking for a job and retooling his expectations for retirement.

>>



Boo hoo! The normal retirement age is 67. If people can't affrord to retire even earlier, tough.

The article notes that many such people wont be able to retire because they already spent the money. Gee, that ought to be a surprise!


And Bush was gone four years ago. Obama must take responsibility for the poor rates of growth and high unemployment which he was so proud of before the election.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47610 of 62957
Subject: Re: Early Retirement now a Lost Art? Date: 2/1/2013 4:13 PM
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<<None of these fortunate events had anything to do with me. I was simply very lucky.

I sometimes think that one of the biggest differences between liberals and conservatives is that liberals recognize and acknowledge their good fortune while conservatives believe that their good fortune proves they are superior. Or conversely, that liberals recognize that bad luck can be responsible for unfortunate outcomes while conservatives are very happy blaming the victims.
>>



Pretty much all the people described in the WSJ article. The difference is that some people take responsibility for the good and bad decisions they have made, and others suppose everything in their lives should be fine despite all the lousy decisions they make and look for others to blame when things go wrong.

I'm especially amused by the people in the article who can't retire EARLY because they acknowledge THEY ALREADY SPENT THEIR SAVINGS!

Duh! What muttonheads. Good liberals all, I suppose.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47611 of 62957
Subject: Re: Early Retirement now a Lost Art? Date: 2/1/2013 4:15 PM
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Art is lost?




Seattle Pioneer

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Author: tjscott0 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47612 of 62957
Subject: Re: Early Retirement now a Lost Art? Date: 2/1/2013 4:26 PM
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The article notes that many such people wont be able to retire because they already spent the money.

This isn't really new. Many over 50 haven't ever had much in the way of retirement savings. They ignored the future. Now that age 67 is imminent they are crying.

The last 12 years of negative growth in S&P 500* really drives home the message that one needs to start saving early & often because stock returns are erratic.

Here is link to Oct 2009 article:http://20somethingfinance.com/average-retirement-savings/

2009 Retirement Confidence Survey, 53% of workers in the U.S. have less than $25,000 in total savings and investments. The typical American household (headed by a 43 year old) has just over $18,000 in savings!

Here's a good one from 2007.

http://money.cnn.com/2007/03/13/pf/expert/expert.moneymag/in...

Question: My husband and I are retiring in 10 years, but haven't set up any retirement accounts. We need some advice on what we can do in such a short time. Any suggestions? - Debra, Bakersfield, Calif.

Answer: Wait a minute. I don't get it. How can you say with such certainty that and your hubby are retiring in 10 years when you apparently haven't saved a dime up to now?



*http://www.moneychimp.com/features/market_cagr.htm

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47613 of 62957
Subject: Re: Early Retirement now a Lost Art? Date: 2/1/2013 4:49 PM
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SP:"And Bush was gone four years ago. Obama must take responsibility for the poor rates of growth and high unemployment which he was so proud of before the election."

Things have gotten a lot worse under Obama

another 6.5 million on SS disability - freebie early retirement...

The lowest percentage of folks in the work force now..a record in recent times......folks can't even find jobs to make it to retirement.


And all those folks who blew threw money like there was no tomorrow and suddenly realized there is no 'retirement fairy' that showers them with money in retirement....wow.....


Obama has dropped interest rates to zero. Like his moniker. Those trying to live on interest from CDs are screwed.

The only folks making out like bandits are those that bought beyond their means, now are stiffing the mortgage company, living it up for 4 years without a payment..... and then walking away with no debt at the end in a 'short sale' or foreclosure. .

Yeah.it's hard for folks to retire on 1.3% interest on the CDs.....and 0.1% on their money market funds..when inflation is well over 2.5% a year.



t.

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Author: BlueGrits Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47614 of 62957
Subject: Re: Early Retirement now a Lost Art? Date: 2/1/2013 5:11 PM
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This isn't really new. Many over 50 haven't ever had much in the way of retirement savings. They ignored the future. Now that age 67 is imminent they are crying.

For some, the problem isn't that they ignored the future but rather got overly aggressive and paid the price in stock market crashes. Others like me knew to save, but didn't know how to invest. As a result, they didn't take advantage of some of the strongest bull markets.

I am grateful that I learned at an early age to avoid debt and save, but would be worth at least twice what I am today if I'd had at least a little education on investing.

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Author: BlueGrits Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47615 of 62957
Subject: Re: Early Retirement now a Lost Art? Date: 2/1/2013 5:22 PM
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I suppose someone's explained this to tele before, but the rise in the number of people on disability relates to the aging of the population.

As for unemployment, that's the cumulative effects of political, social, and economic decisions made over decades.

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Author: sykesix Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47616 of 62957
Subject: Re: Early Retirement now a Lost Art? Date: 2/1/2013 5:50 PM
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I am grateful that I learned at an early age to avoid debt and save, but would be worth at least twice what I am today if I'd had at least a little education on investing.

I'm grateful I found TMF early on in my investing career. I learned a lot of good basic information from articles the Gardeners' wrote and later on from the boards. Stuff like avoid loaded-mutual funds (remember those?) and stick to low cost index funds. It was good information that I never found anywhere else (at least not in one place). I'm undoubtedly better off financially because I found them.

Too bad they became a bunch of hucksters and charltons who turned their backs on everything they once espoused.

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Author: flowerschild Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47617 of 62957
Subject: Re: Early Retirement now a Lost Art? Date: 2/1/2013 6:05 PM
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And Bush was gone four years ago. Obama must take responsibility for the poor rates of growth and high unemployment which he was so proud of before the election.

Seattle Pioneer



If you were a Boy Scout leader who took over a group of Boy Scouts that was previously led by a leader who had used up or given out all the rations he had inherited from the leader before him, you would probably want all the cooperation you could get from your troop to staunch the bleeding and acquire new provisions.

So now you are in the woods with your troop of Boy Scouts, and you know they need to keep the campfire you started earlier alight or the entire troop may face harm. If there then formed a subset of your Boy Scout Troop who decided that they were not going to share the wood they had gathered with you earlier to keep the fire burning any longer, because they didn't want you to be their leader (even after a majority vote among all the Boy Scouts officially made you their leader), you would probably take issue with them.

You might even let the fire go out, to teach them a lesson. But you might also have the other troop members on your mind, who are undeserving of the cold, dangerous night ahead they may face.

You may hold President Obama implicitly accountable for the Congressional Republicans' actions; I do not. But if the fire goes out, those Congressional Republicans may be more in danger than the rest of the troupe.

As Abraham Lincoln said in his Lyceum address:

At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I
answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It
cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must
ourselves be its author and finisher.



flowerschild

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Author: jgc123 Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47619 of 62957
Subject: Re: Early Retirement now a Lost Art? Date: 2/1/2013 6:47 PM
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I am not certain that it ever made sense for such a large and growing segment of the population to expect to retire early. For most of human history people pretty much worked until their children could care for them until they died. Or sooner than that if their children could not care for them.

Even after Social Security was implemented here in the U.S., it was not far from the end of one's life expectancy.

*We* did indeed dupe millions of U.S.'ians into thinking that their swelling home prices and stock holdings in the 90's and early 2000's were real, and to dream of retiring early on their imaginary wealth.

Even those of us who thought they did it right are getting timid.

On the one hand, I could technically post at Millionaire Fools. On the other hand, I am nowhere near retiring.

My savings account is paying 1/2 of 1% and that is only because it maintains a 6 figure balance. Who is brave enough to retire on that?

My sheltered accounts are rocketing upward, but they rocketed upward in 1987 until they lost 30% of their value in one day, rocketed upward in the late 90's until they lost almost half their value in 2000-2, and rocketed upward again until they lost nearly half their value in 2008-9. What's next? Who brave enough to count on stocks/

What is my home worth? $330,000? $560,000? $340,000? All of the above, depending on the year you choose between the date of purchase 13 years ago and now. Who can count on that?

Will I even get Social Security? Or will they come up with some sort of 'means testing' that tells me that I made the mistake of paying into Social Security for 50 years and also saving? Am I willing to retire early if I have to count on that?

I don't think early retirement is a lost art, but a reality that many of us imagined did not apply to us because we were duped by the mortgage/real estate bubble.

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Author: CountUpp Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47621 of 62957
Subject: Re: Early Retirement now a Lost Art? Date: 2/1/2013 9:04 PM
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Too bad they became a bunch of hucksters and charltons who turned their backs on everything they once espoused.

OCD: charlatans.

CU

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Author: Art53 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47622 of 62957
Subject: Re: Early Retirement now a Lost Art? Date: 2/1/2013 9:54 PM
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"Will I even get Social Security? Or will they come up with some sort of 'means testing' that tells me that I made the mistake of paying into Social Security for 50 years and also saving? Am I willing to retire early if I have to count on that? I don't think early retirement is a lost art, but a reality that many of us imagined did not apply to us because we were duped by the mortgage/real estate bubble." - jgc123
---------

I remember Galeno once making the statement that it takes "cojones" to retire early. Something else that I think helps is you got to be willing and able to live cheaply or like my mom used to say "know how to skin the rabbit."

Be willing and able to cut back when needed. Eat potatoes and beans and cornbread. Forgo travel if it warrants it.

One of my mainstays is/are 10 lb bags of chicken leg quarters. They're cheap as dirt and I can almost live an entire week on one bag.

I know how to skin the rabbit.... literally.

Art

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Author: AngelMay Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47623 of 62957
Subject: Re: Early Retirement now a Lost Art? Date: 2/1/2013 9:59 PM
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Eat potatoes and beans and cornbread.


Man, you talk like that's a hardship.
That's some good eatin' right there. :)

AM

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Author: Art53 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47624 of 62957
Subject: Re: Early Retirement now a Lost Art? Date: 2/1/2013 10:29 PM
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"Eat potatoes and beans and cornbread." - Art
-------------------------
"Man, you talk like that's a hardship. That's some good eatin' right there. :)" - AM



My wife is a vegetarian and those are the kinds of things she likes to eat. To be honest I like to eat meat. I also like noodles quite a bit - and eat too many of them - but since I used to be a meat cutter and know how to cut meat I buy a lot of meat in big chunks and then cut it up myself. I look for deals.

I do buy steak once in a while but it's not an everyday or even a weekly thing. I cook steak maybe twice a month at most. I eat a lot of chicken in the form of chicken leg quarters and I also buy those boneless pork loins. I can't believe how cheap they are. They are usually like ~ $1.99/lb which I think is phenomenal. I also like to buy those big boston Pork butts which sometimes I grind up (I have an electric meat grinder) and I buy whole turkeys and cut them up, and half hams when they are on sale. I just buy whatever kind of deals I find.

So even though my wife is a vegetarian I usually eat some kind of meat every day. But I also eat a big salad every night, and tonight we had Chinese take out that was all vegetarian and it was full of broccoli and carrots and chinese cabbage and onions and bell peppers and snow pea pods and tofu - so I got a good dose of veggies tonight.

I also like fruit, fuji apples, pears, whole pineapples, peaches in the summer, watermelon, cantelope (love cantelope!), oranges, cutie mandarin oranges, etc.

I eat a big salad almost every day, tomatoes, peppers, etc. I love all kinds of peppers and eat a lot of peppers.

Art

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Author: InconclusiveFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47625 of 62957
Subject: Re: Early Retirement now a Lost Art? Date: 2/1/2013 11:51 PM
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"None of these fortunate events had anything to do with me. I was simply very lucky."

Hard work will get you everywhere.

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Author: InconclusiveFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47626 of 62957
Subject: Re: Early Retirement now a Lost Art? Date: 2/1/2013 11:55 PM
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"You may hold President Obama implicitly accountable for the Congressional Republicans' actions; I do not."

The buck stops on his desk.

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Author: MisterFungi Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47627 of 62957
Subject: Re: Early Retirement now a Lost Art? Date: 2/2/2013 9:33 AM
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So did the housing bust caused by 3 separate dem ramping up of the initial flawed CRA. Entire 'nest egg' of their house equity wiped out by voracious CEOs of Fannie and Freddie, who made off with hundreds of millions in loot.....and their cronies......(democrats) while tens of millions of folks saw their equity vaporize in a cloud of" Community Organizer force the banks to give crap loans" smoke.

Tele, thanks for the laugh. I finally figured it out: you don't really believe any of the Dittohead gibberish you spout. You're really an aging hippy socialist, and this is all just a kind of ironic joke. It took me a while, but I finally got it.

Good one, man! Right on! Power to the people!

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47639 of 62957
Subject: Re: Early Retirement now a Lost Art? Date: 2/2/2013 6:34 PM
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BG:"I suppose someone's explained this to tele before, but the rise in the number of people on disability relates to the aging of the population."

Sorry...Obama has skyrocketed the SS disability rolls by millions and millions and millions of new folks given a freebie early retirement. Better to get them off the unemployment rolls and fool the people into thinking you have accomplished something in 4 years.

You just created a bigger time bomb...SS disability is broke already

The population didn't suddenly get older under Obama.
---------




BG:"As for unemployment, that's the cumulative effects of political, social, and economic decisions made over decades."

It was only half as bad under Bush. Obama doubled down on that. Bush had 9-11 too


-------

jgc:"My savings account is paying 1/2 of 1% and that is only because it maintains a 6 figure balance. Who is brave enough to retire on that?"


Well, if you had 70% of it in dividend paying stocks , paying about 3-4% dividends.....you'd have some nice income. Plus if you had GNMA or REITS, they'd be spinning off 3-4 %....

So, your million would bring you another 30K on top of SS which might be 25K......ain't bad. or 20K if you take it early.

Married? you each get SS.....50K if you wait.....

-------
jgc:"I don't think early retirement is a lost art, but a reality that many of us imagined did not apply to us because we were duped by the mortgage/real estate bubble. "

Heck, the handwriting was on the wall for a long time. When houses sold for 10 times what people make in a year in CA and NY, you knew it couldn't keep going up and up 20-30% a year forever. Duh!...it didn't take a rocket scientist to see the bubble.


t.

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