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Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 59066  
Subject: Early Retirement Plan Failures Date: 2/6/2007 5:48 PM
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One thing that I've found interesting over the years is observing what causes folks' early retirement plans to fail. No matter how wealthy you are, some people just can't cope with life unless thay have a place to go and someone to tell then what to do once they get there (i.e., "a job".) Outside of this type of retirement planning "psychological failure", financially retirement plans fail for three primary reasons; insufficient savings, an undiversified portfolio, and underestimating living expenses in retirement. See article:

Early Retirement Plan Failures
http://www.retireearlyhomepage.com/rob_failure.html


intercst

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Author: FoolYap Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 872 of 59066
Subject: Re: Early Retirement Plan Failures Date: 2/6/2007 7:44 PM
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No matter how wealthy you are, some people just can't cope with life unless thay have a place to go and someone to tell then what to do once they get there (i.e., "a job".)

I wonder what percentage of (early or otherwise) happy retirees are introverts versus extroverts?

According to "The Introvert Advantage", extroverts outnumber introverts by about 3 to 1. That probably skews the "happy retiree" numbers towards extroverts.

But I still wouldn't be surprised to find that introverts outnumbered extroverts among happy retirees. I often read about the importance of a social life to retirees. Apparently some people really do miss their co-workers?

As an extreme introvert myself -- and one not enjoying the current job lately -- I think I'll be pretty happy if the extent of my social interaction narrows to my family, the Internet, and cashiers at a Barnes & Noble. :-]

--FY

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 877 of 59066
Subject: Re: Early Retirement Plan Failures Date: 2/6/2007 8:01 PM
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<<As an extreme introvert myself -- and one not enjoying the current job lately -- I think I'll be pretty happy if the extent of my social interaction narrows to my family, the Internet, and cashiers at a Barnes & Noble. :-]
>>


Amazing isn't it, that many highly introverted people find discussion boards like this one a social outlet? I've never seen an especially good explanation of why that is very often true.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: pachouly Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 881 of 59066
Subject: Re: Early Retirement Plan Failures Date: 2/6/2007 8:13 PM
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Amazing isn't it, that many highly introverted people find discussion boards like this one a social outlet? I've never seen an especially good explanation of why that is very often true.

For myself, engaging on any online forum creates more flexibility and control than in-person socialization. It's completely on my terms -- if I feel like being alone, am upset by something I read, or want to disappear for a while I can simply cease to engage with that 'world'.

You can't do that in most workplaces or families.

That said, people do notice when frequent participants (e.g, SeattlePioneer) suddenly stop posting. Which may (or may not) create other pressures. :-)

pachouly

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Author: GusSmed Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 883 of 59066
Subject: Re: Early Retirement Plan Failures Date: 2/6/2007 8:26 PM
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Amazing isn't it, that many highly introverted people find discussion boards like this one a social outlet?

I'm one. Since I retired, my only "normal" friends are my wife, my mother-in-law, and the people I know online. I simply don't talk to anyone on a daily basis like I did when I had a job.

OTOH, I didn't really like anyone at my last job, and I pretty much let my friends from New World drift away. I did try and stay in contact with Ian Berkley-Young, but he's just as much of an introvert as I am, and that petered out pretty quickly. Beyond that, I got a letter from David Mullich recently, which I've meant to respond to, but simply haven't been interested enough to do so.

Are friends you know online real friends? Yeah, I'd say so, albeit unconventional ones. I've spent more time playing games with guys I've met online than I ever did with friends I knew at work who also liked games. It's a lot more fun playing with someone you know and like than with some random stranger. I've had conversations with more real substance with people like Kazim than most friends I've known face to face.

- Gus

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Author: sykesix Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 901 of 59066
Subject: Re: Early Retirement Plan Failures Date: 2/6/2007 11:04 PM
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I wonder what percentage of (early or otherwise) happy retirees are introverts versus extroverts?

According to "The Introvert Advantage", extroverts outnumber introverts by about 3 to 1. That probably skews the "happy retiree" numbers towards extroverts.


Interesting question. Intercst looked to it some years ago:

http://www.retireearlyhomepage.com/mbti.html

It turns out early retirees are hugely introverted.

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Author: vickifool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 919 of 59066
Subject: Re: Early Retirement Plan Failures Date: 2/7/2007 1:55 AM
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But I still wouldn't be surprised to find that introverts outnumbered extroverts among happy retirees. I often read about the importance of a social life to retirees. Apparently some people really do miss their co-workers?

There is no shortage of other places to find a social life.

When I was looking to meet VickiSpouse, I never even considered anyone I worked with. Bad idea. I looked at music club, dancing, hiking club, concerts, museums, parks. Anywhere I was enjoying myself.



Vickifool

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Author: FoolYap Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 929 of 59066
Subject: Re: Early Retirement Plan Failures Date: 2/7/2007 7:17 AM
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Interesting question. Intercst looked to it some years ago:

http://www.retireearlyhomepage.com/mbti.html

It turns out early retirees are hugely introverted.


Cool. Good to get some confirmation.

Lizmonster and I had a very extroverted co-worker who once overheard her talk about being retired "early". He didn't understand the concept. As in, the idea really seemed to bother him.

"But what will you do??"

My answers:

- go for walks when I feel like it
- sleep late when I feel like it (modulo DD who will still be living here and need to get to school :)
- surf when I feel like it
- read when I feel like it
- go to the library when I feel like it
- spend more time on my gardening and woodworking hobbies
- go to matinee movies when I feel like it
- volunteer for Habitat for Humanity work if I feel like it
- go on day-trip photography walks when I feel like it
- spend a day at a Barnes & Noble if I feel like it
- spend a day at a lumberyard searching for perfect boards if I feel like it
- etc etc

I don't know what this guy expects to do when he retires? Maybe he expects to die before that happens??

--FY

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Author: cattleman22 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 947 of 59066
Subject: Re: Early Retirement Plan Failures Date: 2/7/2007 9:26 AM
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{{As an extreme introvert myself -- and one not enjoying the current job lately -- I think I'll be pretty happy if the extent of my social interaction narrows to my family, the Internet, and cashiers at a Barnes & Noble. :-]}}


I have to say that I agree with you here. I have never had a real job and yet I am already planning for when I can give up that job I am currently looking for.


c

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Author: AngelMay Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 959 of 59066
Subject: Re: Early Retirement Plan Failures Date: 2/7/2007 10:00 AM
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I wonder what percentage of (early or otherwise) happy retirees are introverts versus extroverts?

According to "The Introvert Advantage", extroverts outnumber introverts by about 3 to 1. That probably skews the "happy retiree" numbers towards extroverts.

Interesting question. Intercst looked to it some years ago:

http://www.retireearlyhomepage.com/mbti.html

It turns out early retirees are hugely introverted.




I have to wonder how accurate this is.
We played around with this test on another board a long time back now and most of the people turned out to be introverts.

If Intercst took the information from people using the internet, the results are probably not very conclusive. Are most early retirees introverts? Or are most people who spend long hours messing on the computer introverts? You have to somehow get a sampling of the retired community at large in order to really know.

AM

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Author: GusSmed Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 995 of 59066
Subject: Re: Early Retirement Plan Failures Date: 2/7/2007 10:57 AM
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I looked at music club, dancing, hiking club, concerts, museums, parks.

I personally don't do stuff like that for pleasure. The stuff I really enjoy doesn't involve going out and meeting people.

- Gus

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Author: AngelMay Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1002 of 59066
Subject: Re: Early Retirement Plan Failures Date: 2/7/2007 11:13 AM
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I looked at music club, dancing, hiking club, concerts, museums, parks.

I personally don't do stuff like that for pleasure. The stuff I really enjoy doesn't involve going out and meeting people.

- Gus



I'd like to meet you, Gus.
Even though I am a person ;o)

AM

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Author: sofaking6 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1003 of 59066
Subject: Re: Early Retirement Plan Failures Date: 2/7/2007 11:14 AM
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Amazing isn't it, that many highly introverted people find discussion boards like this one a social outlet? I've never seen an especially good explanation of why that is very often true.

I think maybe a lot of introverts enjoy communication, just not face to face interaction. I get tired from too much face time, but I'm not antisocial.

6

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Author: AngelMay Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1004 of 59066
Subject: Re: Early Retirement Plan Failures Date: 2/7/2007 11:16 AM
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I think maybe a lot of introverts enjoy communication, just not face to face interaction. I get tired from too much face time, but I'm not antisocial.

6




Exactly.

AM

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Author: lizmonster Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1006 of 59066
Subject: Re: Early Retirement Plan Failures Date: 2/7/2007 11:18 AM
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I think maybe a lot of introverts enjoy communication, just not face to face interaction. I get tired from too much face time, but I'm not antisocial.

I like discussion boards because I have time to think about what I'm going to say, and to edit before I post. Instant Messaging, on the other hand, is second only to the telephone in ways I hate to communicate.

I love email, and frequently use it for chit-chat (my mother and I often email back and forth several times a day). Of course, I did piss off one of my friends by emailing her when my daughter was born instead of calling - but I was exhausted enough; why would I have wanted a phone conversation?

-lizmonster, pretty darn introverted and happy that way

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Author: AngelMay Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1008 of 59066
Subject: Re: Early Retirement Plan Failures Date: 2/7/2007 11:20 AM
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I like discussion boards because I have time to think about what I'm going to say, and to edit before I post. Instant Messaging, on the other hand, is second only to the telephone in ways I hate to communicate.



I love the telephone for SOME people because it's the only way I get to hear their beautiful voices. For others, the internet is fine. Also, you can just walk away from the internet when you feel like it...

AM

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Author: tenworlds Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1009 of 59066
Subject: Re: Early Retirement Plan Failures Date: 2/7/2007 11:20 AM
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I don't know what this guy expects to do when he retires? Maybe he expects to die before that happens??
--FY

-----

One of my sisters is a 'Type A'. So driven that, though she tried to RE twice, she just had to work. She and BIL easily have the means to do whatever they want, but...
After she retired herself out of one job(stream-lined the management, then eliminated her own position!) at about 48, she soon got restless and started consulting. After about five years she decided she didn't like all the traveling(Ireland,New Zealand,Italy), retired again. Got bored and is now executive director of a pediatric nursing association, NAPNAP. http://www.napnap.org/index.cfm?page=9
She (and her happily retired hubby) had no lack of 'things to do', and did them. She is just driven, and very much the extrovert mentioned earlier. She did all the above while dealing with, among other things, a particularly nasty divorce, an addict (now recovering) daughter, a bout with breast cancer, and most recently, a hip replacement.

She told me recently that she's really trying to be a 'Type B'. I haven't seen much change yet. Funny how that works. She and I came from the same background and we are as different as night & day when it comes to introvert/extrovert. Outside that, she's as liberal as I am (moderate).




Rich

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Author: vickifool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1014 of 59066
Subject: Re: Early Retirement Plan Failures Date: 2/7/2007 11:27 AM
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I personally don't do stuff like that for pleasure. The stuff I really enjoy doesn't involve going out and meeting people.

We were discussing a retiree's "social life." My point was that a job isn't necessary to have a social life.

Actually, my point was that "A job isn't necessary..."

Vickifool

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Author: sykesix Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1028 of 59066
Subject: Re: Early Retirement Plan Failures Date: 2/7/2007 11:38 AM
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I have to wonder how accurate this is.
We played around with this test on another board a long time back now and most of the people turned out to be introverts.

If Intercst took the information from people using the internet, the results are probably not very conclusive. Are most early retirees introverts? Or are most people who spend long hours messing on the computer introverts? You have to somehow get a sampling of the retired community at large in order to really know.


I'm sure it is not accurate at all, except to highlight the general trend. One thing commonly misunderstood about introverts is they are not necessarily shy (although they can be), it is the get "recharged" by being by themselves. Extroverts tend to energized by being around other people.

For that reason alone, you can see why extroverts would enjoy going to the office and interacting with their co-workers and so might not be as motivated to RE as an introvert who might rather skip the whole exercise.

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Author: AngelMay Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1034 of 59066
Subject: Re: Early Retirement Plan Failures Date: 2/7/2007 11:42 AM
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I have to wonder how accurate this is.
We played around with this test on another board a long time back now and most of the people turned out to be introverts.

If Intercst took the information from people using the internet, the results are probably not very conclusive. Are most early retirees introverts? Or are most people who spend long hours messing on the computer introverts? You have to somehow get a sampling of the retired community at large in order to really know.

I'm sure it is not accurate at all, except to highlight the general trend. One thing commonly misunderstood about introverts is they are not necessarily shy (although they can be), it is the get "recharged" by being by themselves. Extroverts tend to energized by being around other people.

For that reason alone, you can see why extroverts would enjoy going to the office and interacting with their co-workers and so might not be as motivated to RE as an introvert who might rather skip the whole exercise.



Of course. And I think maybe his "research" is correct. I just mentioned the internet/non-internet "thing" as a condition to be considered, that's all.

I tend not to put a lot of stock in "polls" taken over the internet by news organizations since there are many people (who also have opinions) who are not computer literate or who don't own computers even if they are. To REALLY get the correct answer, you have to sample everyone randomly.

AM

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Author: sofaking6 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1049 of 59066
Subject: Re: Early Retirement Plan Failures Date: 2/7/2007 12:15 PM
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I like discussion boards because I have time to think about what I'm going to say, and to edit before I post. Instant Messaging, on the other hand, is second only to the telephone in ways I hate to communicate.

I love email, and frequently use it for chit-chat (my mother and I often email back and forth several times a day). Of course, I did piss off one of my friends by emailing her when my daughter was born instead of calling - but I was exhausted enough; why would I have wanted a phone conversation?


So, so exactly the same way. I love email, I hate IM and loathe with a fiery passion talking on the phone.

6

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Author: GusSmed Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1051 of 59066
Subject: Re: Early Retirement Plan Failures Date: 2/7/2007 12:17 PM
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My point was that a job isn't necessary to have a social life.

I understand that, but for someone like me, a job was sort of necessary for an ordinary social life. And frankly, it didn't actually give me a social life for the most part. Even when I was working at New World, and had a group of people I rather liked, I didn't socialize with those people outside of work. I didn't go to dinners with them, or arrange to play games with them or whatever. Still, I suppose it was something of a social life, since we often talked about non-work stuff at work.

I could do the sort of things you mention to create a social life in retirement, but it would be forcing it because I don't really enjoy any of that. Instead I have this kind of oddball social life with people on the internet.

- Gus

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Author: tootru Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1055 of 59066
Subject: Re: Early Retirement Plan Failures Date: 2/7/2007 12:21 PM
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So, so exactly the same way. I love email, I hate IM and loathe with a fiery passion talking on the phone.

Several people in my company ask me why I'm not on IM. Like it's not distracting enough to do my job with non-stop phone calls and e-mails? C'mon!

I even turned off call-waiting on my desk and cell phones.

I work with one guy on creating statements of work for our customers. He always sets up a phone call to discuss the SOWs - when I'd much rather just go over it, mark it up and e-mail it back.

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Author: LtUhura Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1085 of 59066
Subject: Re: Early Retirement Plan Failures Date: 2/7/2007 1:20 PM
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One of my sisters is a 'Type A'. So driven that, though she tried to RE twice, she just had to work.

That pretty much describes my dad to a T. He took early retirement at Job A when he was 55, took a year off, got bored, started consulting with Job A until Job B offered him a position which was identical to Job A but paying about 40% more. Now he's talking about retiring from Job B. He made some wise investments, gets a nice pension from Job A, will get a nicer pension from Job B, then mentioned the new Starbucks down the street from his house has a decent hourly wage and since he's up that early anyway...

My dad is never going to retire. Not because he needs the money, he just needs to work.

Uhura

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Author: ogrecat Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1106 of 59066
Subject: Re: Early Retirement Plan Failures Date: 2/7/2007 2:06 PM
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I think maybe a lot of introverts enjoy communication, just not face to face interaction. I get tired from too much face time, but I'm not antisocial.

6


Online, I can edit at leisure; as opposed to talking, where editing must be done in real time. I can also engage & disengage on my own schedule.

Also I do not have to try to notice, analyze & respond to 'social cues' which I am told do exist.

My blood pressure is way down since retiring.

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Author: ogrecat Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1110 of 59066
Subject: Re: Early Retirement Plan Failures Date: 2/7/2007 2:09 PM
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-lizmonster, pretty darn introverted and happy that way

Do you have relatives (& others) telling you that you cannot possibly be happy & introverted; that you simply must get out more?

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Author: jgc123 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1112 of 59066
Subject: Re: Early Retirement Plan Failures Date: 2/7/2007 2:10 PM
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"My dad is never going to retire. Not because he needs the money, he just needs to work.

Uhura"

I am concerned that may describe me. My dad officially retired from practicing law at 84. Now he is 85. The last two times I called home during the work week, Mom answered the phone and said, "He's at the office". Both times I said, "I thought he finally retired." Both times she said, "Well, he's still winding things up for his friends."



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Author: ogrecat Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1113 of 59066
Subject: Re: Early Retirement Plan Failures Date: 2/7/2007 2:11 PM
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I love the telephone for SOME people because it's the only way I get to hear their beautiful voices. For others, the internet is fine. Also, you can just walk away from the internet when you feel like it...

AM


Another reason I like the internet: I have a terrible voice.

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Author: FCorelli Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1116 of 59066
Subject: Re: Early Retirement Plan Failures Date: 2/7/2007 2:12 PM
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Also I do not have to try to notice, analyze & respond to 'social cues' which I am told do exist.oc

It's called "The Hidden Curriculum"

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Author: vickifool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1118 of 59066
Subject: Re: Early Retirement Plan Failures Date: 2/7/2007 2:15 PM
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My dad is never going to retire. Not because he needs the money, he just needs to work.

Uhura


Could your mom help him with that? I kept VickiSpouse from getting out of bed until 11 am this morning.

Vickifool

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Author: lizmonster Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1141 of 59066
Subject: Re: Early Retirement Plan Failures Date: 2/7/2007 2:31 PM
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Do you have relatives (& others) telling you that you cannot possibly be happy & introverted; that you simply must get out more?

I do need a little human contact, although not very much. My challenge as an introvert is to balance my love for solitude with my need for occasional face-to-face socializing. My tendency is to stay home alone, all the time, and I've fallen into depression that way in the past.

So yes, my mother worries a bit about my plan to work from home eventually, because she knows I need SOMETHING and historically I haven't been good at striking the right balance. I don't take it as her insisting I can't be happy, though; I just take it as a reminder to look after myself properly.

The friends I have now I see once a month or so. I've certainly lost some friends who need more face-to-face contact than that. Interestingly enough, if you'd asked me which friends I thought would stay, I'd have been wrong.

I suspect once we're financially independent I'll take a part-time job somewhere (or volunteer). I worked at a library in high school, and the sort of blow-by contact you'd get from customers gave me pretty much exactly the level of social interaction I needed. (Plus there was the book thing; but I digress. ;-))

But at this point in my life, when people express surprise that we don't eat out much, or enjoy travelling, or join clubs, etc. etc., I don't tend to take it as criticism. I know we are unusual. I'm just happy we managed to find each other. :-)

-lizmonster

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Author: sissylue Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1206 of 59066
Subject: Re: Early Retirement Plan Failures Date: 2/7/2007 3:54 PM
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she soon got restless and started consulting. After about five years she decided she didn't like all the traveling(Ireland,New Zealand,Italy), retired again. Got bored and is now executive director of a pediatric nursing association, NAPNAP

She flunked retirement too. Me and Cliff - we're going to start a "Flaming Liberals Who Flunked Retirement" board. Maybe she would like to join?

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Author: tenworlds Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1257 of 59066
Subject: Re: Early Retirement Plan Failures Date: 2/7/2007 6:45 PM
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She flunked retirement too. Me and Cliff - we're going to start a "Flaming Liberals Who Flunked Retirement" board. Maybe she would like to join?
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Heh, I don't think she could sit still long enough. She moved too soon after her hip replacement and popped the bone out of the socket (or something like that). She was on the steps to the garage when it happened and she had to drag herself acroos the kitchen to get to a phone. She wasn't supposed to be on the steps yet, but she was going to drive to the store for something. BIL was so angry that he wouldn't talk to her for days afterward (after he got her to the hosp. and put back together).





Rich

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