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Another sad story on this cold morning. Is this what the GOP has in store for us?

Rather than quietly taking her life at home as many South Koreans do, the woman staged her death as a final act of public protest against a society she said had abandoned her. She drank pesticide overnight in front of her city hall after officials stopped her welfare checks, saying they were no longer obligated to support her now that her son-in-law had found work.

“How can you do this to me?” read the suicide note that the police said they had found in a purse next to her body. “A law should serve the people, but it didn’t protect me.”

The woman’s death is part of one of South Korea’s grimmest statistics: the number of people 65 and older committing suicide, which has nearly quadrupled in recent years, making the country’s rate of such deaths among the highest in the developed world. The epidemic is the counterpoint to the nation’s runaway economic success, which has worn away at the Confucian social contract that formed the bedrock of Korean culture for centuries.

That contract was built on the premise that parents would do almost anything to care for their children — in recent times, depleting their life savings to pay for a good education — and then would end their lives in their children’s care. No Social Security system was needed. Nursing homes were rare.


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/17/world/asia/in-korea-change...
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"Another sad story on this cold morning. Is this what the GOP has in store for us?"


More like what the liberal progressive dems have in store for them and us.

1) The US SS and Medicare systems, by Obama's own government agencies, are 'unsustainable'. That means they will fail. Leaving tens of millions with greatly chopped or no income within a generation


2) So what do you propose? big massive taxes in Korea to take from the workers to give to the 'elderly'? Or maybe just confiscate each month from the 'children' of the elderly, via attachment of the salary, ie, garnishment, enough to support THEIR parents? or just tax everyone to support others relatives?


3) Yes, transitions hurt..>I"m sure the new generation of progressive liberal basement dwelling OWS types that we saw in the last election cycle aren't going to be able to support their parents, either by paying taxes (if you don't work you don't pay taxes)......or by sending them support money each month. The 'money fairy' is supposed to shower down money on them as they sit around stoned in their parents basements, collecting welfare, SS disability and food stamps, and on their parents as well when they retire.

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On the other hand, a well planned retirement here using IRAs and 401Ks can afford those who are RESPONSIBLE a good retirement. If you plan on having SS in 20 years, you are nutso. It isn't going to be there for most folks. You'd better be saving on your own. in 20 years, the retirement age will have to be up at 68 or higher...and you'll get less money.




Oh...I got it...Korea should massively raise taxes...take away from their defense budget (joke joke - we still have 30,000 troops there and spend billions on THEIR defense)......


or you can watch Greece...where the entire social fabric is falling apart, public 'pensions' are headed to near zero, the elderly have no medical care as the entire hospital system is now 'cash only'....and same for most docs.......... we'll be there by 2020 with our Obama debt levels.....





t.
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a well planned retirement here using IRAs and 401Ks can afford those who are RESPONSIBLE a good retirement.

People making median or less income, especially when accompanied by some sort of tragedy, are likely to be unable to save enough for a good retirement. Family member with serious medical/mental/emotional problems, below-average IQ or personality that prevents a good education or good skills acquisition and therefore good job, automation/off-shoring causing long-term unemployment at a critical juncture (like in one's 50s), making the mistake of buying a house or significant investments near the peak of a bubble, perhaps a personality that doesn't look toward the future and assumes that God or fate will provide. Or as SP likes to point out, a financially devastating divorce.

I've known people who seemed well on the path of a secure retirement, when their efforts were sabotaged by long-term unemployment, abandonment by a spouse, theft of their savings by an unscrupulous investment advisor, long-term employer went under, taking their pension/retirement health care with it, victim of state government cut-backs just at a time when other employers have closed their doors.

Would you be in such good shape if, instead of a significant inheritance, you needed to support elderly parents? This very scenario interfered with my parents' saving for retirement. So did their cashing out my father's paid-up whole life insurance policy to help pay for my brother's dental school. You aren't a parent and don't know the lengths parents will go to help ensure good lives for their children.

One of my daughter's 30something friends has a long-term unemployed mother that she supports on her paralegal salary (she would prefer to continue doing non-pfofit work, but just can;t support her mother that way). When she saved enough to buy an apartment in one of the outer boroughs of NYC, it had to be a 2BR so her mother wouldn't be homeless or living in public housing.

Not everyone's life runs smoothly.
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alstro;"People making median or less income, especially when accompanied by some sort of tragedy, are likely to be unable to save enough for a good retirement."

So, who 'promised them' a 'good retirement'? Life is not always fair. Why should 'everyone else' have to always subsidize 1/4 of the population? And of course, half the people make median or less income, right? So .....what, we force the other half to give up their savings and assets to fund the other half? Is that what you are saying?

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alstro:" Family member with serious medical/mental/emotional problems, below-average IQ or personality that prevents a good education or good skills acquisition and therefore good job, automation/off-shoring causing long-term unemployment at a critical juncture (like in one's 50s), making the mistake of buying a house or significant investments near the peak of a bubble, perhaps a personality that doesn't look toward the future and assumes that God or fate will provide."


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Wow...that's a heck of a sentence...let's take it phrase by phrase...

'Below average IQ'...wow....what a liberal progressive weenie rant. Half the people in the country have a 'below average' IQ. Duh!...math challenged!...that is what average IQ is.....the 'middle'. ....

Success has little to do with IQ. Just look at your Hollywood stars and professional athletes who can barely put a sentence together yet make 200 million for a contract, or 20 million per movie. There are tons of 'millionaires' with below average IQ....

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astro: That prevents a good education or good skills acquisition and therefore good job,

Wow...another progressive rant. Sorry, there are loads of folks in carpentry, cabinet making, welding, oil field work, mining, plumbing, heating and a/c, swimming pool construction and you name it.....that don't have IQ, but have managed to get job skills...maybe through years in the service...maybe through community college courses. Duh!.....

Half the businesses in this country are run by 'lower than average IQ' folks. Right?

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alstro:" Or as SP likes to point out, a financially devastating divorce."

Can happen......so...choose wisely...

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alstro:"I've known people who seemed well on the path of a secure retirement, when their efforts were sabotaged by long-term unemployment, abandonment by a spouse, theft of their savings by an unscrupulous investment advisor, long-term employer went under, taking their pension/retirement health care with it, victim of state government cut-backs just at a time when other employers have closed their doors."

Nearly everyone is backed up by the government with the pension guarantee board...... you might not get more than $55,000 a year in pension...but how many get a pension that big to start with?

Yeah...your health care in 'early retirement' can go away....or even after 65. So? Few get that benefit..... I didn't.

Everyone gets SS Medicare at 65 or if they worked 10 years in their lives...


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alstro:"Would you be in such good shape if, instead of a significant inheritance, you needed to support elderly parents?"

Fortunately my parents were of a generation (born 1916/17) where they experienced the real Great Depression...and started work in 1932/33. They lived through the 10 years of FDRs horrible depression and failed policies that prolonged it.

I didn't get a 'significant' inheritance..it was less than 5% incease in my net worth....after my mom spent 10 years...living half the time in MY house in TX......

fortunately, my dad got a good pension, earned enough to collect a nice SS benefit, was wise enough to take the pension so my mom had a good survivor benefit (less per month), and mom was self sufficient.

- - - -



alstro:"So did their cashing out my father's paid-up whole life insurance policy to help pay for my brother's dental school. You aren't a parent and don't know the lengths parents will go to help ensure good lives for their children."

Hopefully your brother more than compensated them for your brothers years in dental school.....right? and he had a life insurance policy to pay them back if he accidentally died before he did?

Yeah..my parents put me and sis through private college education.....that wasn't cheap....even in the 60s...mom went back
to work to pay for it.


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alstro:"One of my daughter's 30something friends has a long-term unemployed mother that she supports on her paralegal salary (she would prefer to continue doing non-pfofit work, but just can;t support her mother that way)."

Oh.wow...the progressive rant....kids should be free to do 'non paying jobs' and the taxpayers ought to compensate them somehow....like the Obama's whining about taking low paying jobs instead of high paying jobs after college....he as a community organizer making near minimum wage...then screaming about having to pay back their student loan debts on miminum wage salaries when they could have been making 100K a year as lawyers. right!...

sorry, that 20 something or other just better get a decent paying job and pay her obligation to support her mom, instead of insisting that 'someone else' should do it for her!!!!!


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alstro:" When she saved enough to buy an apartment in one of the outer boroughs of NYC, it had to be a 2BR so her mother wouldn't be homeless or living in public housing."


Oh...wow...so she could pay for her mothers living expenses....save up a downpayment on a likely couple hundred thousand apartment, but , horrors , not in ultra expensive Manhattan!......and you whine about 'the outer boroughs of NYC'. Duh....so she had to ride the subway another 7 tops. Oh, the horror of it!....

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alstro:"Not everyone's life runs smoothly. "

There are no guarantees in life. Then again, the government shouldn't be in the business of supporting 'below average IQ' folks (half the population) or those who blow their money on drugs or vacations or $200/month iPhone bills and then complain they don't have enough money.

YOu live in a progressive fantasy world where the money fairy showers all with wealth.

t.
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alstroemeria posts,

ather than quietly taking her life at home as many South Koreans do, the woman staged her death as a final act of public protest against a society she said had abandoned her. She drank pesticide overnight in front of her city hall after officials stopped her welfare checks, saying they were no longer obligated to support her now that her son-in-law had found work.

In the early 1980's when I was working for Exxon, we fabricated several offshore oil platforms in South Korean shipyards. (It was less than 1/2 the cost of doing the work in the US.) One remarkable sight in the shipyard was the crew of several hundred old women with brooms who paraded through the yard cleaning the pavement. Apparently they were the widows of shipyard workers killed on the job and were put to work to "earn" their survivor benefits such as they were.

intercst
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"One remarkable sight in the shipyard was the crew of several hundred old women with brooms who paraded through the yard cleaning the pavement. Apparently they were the widows of shipyard workers killed on the job and were put to work to "earn" their survivor benefits such as they were."


Probably good for them. Exercise, and a social gathering.

and did you find out if they were under 65? bet not.....so they had a job, right?

Unlike 12 million now on unemployment and another 10 million on early retirement SS disability now in the USA......most of whom are fit enough to work doing something......


t.
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Tele never fails to respond with examples of "compassionate conservatism" at work.
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Personally I don't see any reason to hang around to live out a messy, expensive and painful last chapter in life.

I prefer to be prepared to check out a little early when the time comes.



Seattle Pioneer
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"In the early 1980's when I was working for Exxon, we fabricated several offshore oil platforms in South Korean shipyards. (It was less than 1/2 the cost of doing the work in the US.) One remarkable sight in the shipyard was the crew of several hundred old women with brooms who paraded through the yard cleaning the pavement. Apparently they were the widows of shipyard workers killed on the job and were put to work to "earn" their survivor benefits such as they were.

intercst "

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Same thing seen in China - outside of Shanghai - 2003 - in an industrial
park that had displaced farm lands to build chemical plants.
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So, who 'promised them' a 'good retirement'? Life is not always fair. Why should 'everyone else' have to always subsidize 1/4 of the population?

Because we live in a relatively prosperous and civilized country and telling people, "Sorry you weren't as lucky as me, now go starve where I can't see you", isn't really a formula for long term societal health.

http://anticap.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/poverty_soc-sec-s...

It seems as if some of the luckiest among us have no stinking clue how lucky they have been.
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"It seems as if some of the luckiest among us have no stinking clue how lucky they have been." - volucris


They are under the illusion that everything good that has come to them has been all of their own doing.

I highly suspicion that is not the case. It's like playing cards and getting dealt a good hand. I suspect even drive and ambition are genetically controlled, that coupled with a few lucky breaks, good teachers, stability in school, environment, and at the end of the game you win the hand and get to keep the pot.

Art
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