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Author: SeniorCit Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 165934  
Subject: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/25/2008 7:27 PM
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Part of an email message from Aj to let us know we shouldn't be expecting his post here in the future.

The Motley Fool's perception appears to be that freedom of speech belongs to those (and only those) who can control it with the click of a "Delete" button. To submit to that one-sided, arbitrary rule would be to effectively allow myself to be intellectually oppressed and become their idiological slave; and that is not who I am. Am I being too dramatic? Perhaps, but similar to my predicament of fifty years ago, I find that the benefits of belonging to a community where free expression is denied fades in comparison to my independence to live and speak freely.

Accordingly, rather than bowing to a masterdom of despotic authority, I walk away free and with my head held high.

~Joe


To add to my reasoning, I also just received this notice from MF. This was my post of "Aj's Baby sitter". Interesting that it reached number 4 on the "Best Of" board with 45 Recs before it got pulled. I guess it may have been the fact that it was tied to Aj and his following. Maybe it would have been acceptable if the baby was nursing. No one will miss me here, as I have only post on Hurl 5-6 times. Since the main reason for me visiting this board disappears I also will save a little time bypassing the HURL.

Hi there SeniorCit,

We just deleted the message that you posted with the subject of "Aj's baby sitter" on 1/24/2008 12:07:19 PM.

We want to make sure that you are aware of our rules.
Please understand that we have standards in our community and work to uphold them. We'd like to ask that you review our posting guidelines</b.>
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Author: MFDnNC Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118530 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/25/2008 7:41 PM
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That is amazing that the baby sitter got pulled - this place is turning into a bleeding heart liberal, PC and morality extreme place


Tick tick, may be time to leave this place

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Author: ptheland Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118533 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/25/2008 7:50 PM
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Tick tick, may be time to leave this place

I propose an invasion of PA to apply similar standards to that board. Anything remotely offensive should be FA'd.

--Peter <== quiet, but with subversive tendencies

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Author: MFDnNC Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118534 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/25/2008 7:53 PM
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Won't work, they approve the Liberal PC Morality folks there

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Author: SixFootSevenFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118536 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/25/2008 8:17 PM
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I think what happened is that AJ saw at least two dozen posts *IN A ROW* without his name in it and he couldn't stand it so he asked you to relay his messages to stir the pot again.

But, I could be wrong.

-shorty, not wrong

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Author: MFDnNC Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118537 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/25/2008 8:30 PM
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http://www.fool.com/help/index.htm?display=newuser02

Post or transmit any content that is disruptive, uncivil, abusive, vulgar, profane, obscene, hateful, fraudulent, threatening, harassing, defamatory, or which discloses private or personal matters concerning any person;


TMF enforece your rules!

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Author: SixFootSevenFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118540 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/25/2008 8:50 PM
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Post or transmit any content that is disruptive, uncivil, abusive, vulgar, profane, obscene, hateful, fraudulent, threatening, harassing, defamatory, or which discloses private or personal matters concerning any person;


TMF enforece your rules!

----

Wait, wasn't the post that *I* responded to disruptive?

This could create an endless loop.

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Author: MadCapitalist Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118554 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/26/2008 12:33 AM
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But, I could be wrong.

You are making progress. The next step is to admit that you *are* wrong.

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Author: CrestlineKathy Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118569 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/26/2008 7:20 AM
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Many of us got that email from AJ but we didn't post it, so if he asked us to post it, there would be 100 versions of it on here. I agree that it's just no fun around here now and all the lame repeat jokes aren't worth the time. See some of you guys at AJ's place, ok?

Kat

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Author: kentm401 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118570 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/26/2008 8:17 AM
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SeniorCit added to your Favorite Fools

KBM (plus a rec0
PS: U paying attention TMF?

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Author: umphy Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118580 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/26/2008 11:59 AM
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Fool wiffout OJ (err AJ) would be like Florida wiffout Anita squeezing HARD ta get tha JUICE OUT!!!!????

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Author: TMFBreakerCharly Big gold star, 5000 posts CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118582 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/26/2008 12:20 PM
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That is amazing that the baby sitter got pulled - this place is turning into a bleeding heart liberal, PC and morality extreme plac

Is it really all that surprising it got pulled?

I like girlie pics and crass jokes as much as the next guy but there's a time and place for those sorts of things.

Could anyone here with a white collar office job post those kinds of pics in their office or cubicle? Seriously no one is going to have a picture of a row of girls in thongs up in a office. Or on your living room wall, at least not if you have young kids in the house.

This is a family friendly site and that means what's appropriate is more in line with network sitcoms and not at all in line with The Aristocrats.

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Author: kenm47 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118587 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/26/2008 1:33 PM
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It's unfortunate. I considered him generally more a positive than a negative factor.

It does diminish things a bit.

Ken

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Author: elixe Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118588 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/26/2008 2:58 PM
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Accordingly, rather than bowing to a masterdom of despotic authority, I walk away free and with my head held high.

IMO he'll be back.

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Author: ptheland Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118589 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/26/2008 3:02 PM
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Is it really all that surprising it got pulled?

Yes, and no.

Did the photo cross a line? Beats me. Its very close to it, that's for sure. But that's not the real issue here.

This is a family friendly site and that means what's appropriate is more in line with network sitcoms and not at all in line with The Aristocrats.

This is the part that is highly subject to criticism. While an obviously modified photo of a baby pushing clothed mammary glands around is arguably across some poorly defined line, so are an awful lot of other posts here at TMF. The majority of those don't involve pictures, they stick with words.

There are likely hundreds, if not thousands, of posts that are as family un-friendly as the baby and mother. Yet they stand and the photo is gone.

Tell you what. Let's get the TMF community to help you out here. Look for my next post asking for help to demonstrate the double standard that many here see.

--Peter

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Author: horacekgl Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118603 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/26/2008 4:48 PM
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This is a family friendly site

See that's the part I don't get. And I've seen that before recently. I didn't sign up for no 'f'<>in' family friendly site. This used to be an adult site where there was some great camaraderie and playful back and forth among friends. Suddenly we are surrounded by a bunch of PC, liberal, socialist weenies (and to be fair, a few fringe religious nuts as well). I don't know when that all changed, but this is no longer the site I signed up for (we used to pay to belong) and have read for years.

There should only be adults on this board (I don't know how we'd enforce an adult only board though so maybe those days are gone). If you aren't at least 40, how the heck can you have a sense of humor? That takes time to develop. Guess its time to move on; I don't have time for weenies either in my real life or this virtual life. I will admit that I have thought of staying and 'problem posting' half the stuff posted, especially by certain individuals, and see what happens. What are they going to do about it after all? Yank my privileges? Boy, that would really show me! Then they can refund me the price of the various newsletters I subscribe to; I'd really be the one coming out ahead at the end of the day.

glh
A charter member who is just about ready to find another 'home'.

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Author: kenm47 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118611 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/26/2008 5:51 PM
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"There should only be adults on this board"

Seems to me if there were, we would be past this already.

The endless whining by many here on both sides of the issue is unattractive.

Ken

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Author: Ahote Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118617 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/26/2008 8:48 PM
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I didn't sign up for no 'f'<>in' family friendly site.

Actually you did.


This used to be an adult site

No it did not.


Whilst I'd be the last person to FA a post for obscenity, TMF has always had rules of propriety. One has not been allowed to include foul language and I know this because I have been banned for using the 'f' word and have had posts pulled for using the 's' word amongst others.


Suddenly we are surrounded by a bunch of PC, liberal, socialist weenies

My guess is that that shot in the dark missed its mark. I've had posts FA'd by right wing, conservative weenies for including a letter like say 'f' followed by three asterisks.

The whole Averagjoe thing certainly had nothing to do with liberals and more to do originally with people who were genuninly offended by his posts. Why poeple like yourself don't understand that is beyond me.

Averagjoe posted film of people being actually killed several times along with a humorous comment - as long as it was a non-American tons of people recce'd it.

For what it's worth, to view such material on You-Tube you have to go through an age verification process. That doesn't exist here, but perhaps, instead of all throwing your arms up in despair that Averagjoe isn't oposting here any more you might try introducing something like that to TMF.

But no, half of you are throwing yourselves off the precipice like lemmings whilst the other half are blaming 'liberals' and PA for your hero's demise. I don't know what PA has to do with it because the only posters from PA who posted here that I know of: LifeForceDance and wzambon were both Averagejoe fans.

For the record, I didn't FA Averagjoe's posts and I found some to be humurous, others not. But it was easy to see why some people just didn't appreciate the surprises. No warnings, no "NWS" notices - just some title, link to a film on his site and that film proved to contain some nudity or violence.

Now TMF banned him for a few days and HE chose not to come back - don't go blaming PA, liberals or TMF for the situation - he has total control over it and if you guys stopped wailing about the doomed situation of HURL and actually posted something funny for a change, HURL would be back to what it once was, which is a source of amusement to everyone, not just a select few.

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Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118619 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/26/2008 8:57 PM
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The whole Averagjoe thing certainly had nothing to do with liberals and more to do originally with people who were genuninly offended by his posts. Why poeple like yourself don't understand that is beyond me.


Probably because the people who claimed to be offended by his posts:

* Are regular extreme-liberal posters on a board where you can say practically anything as long as it's about George Bush.

* BECAME regular posters here for the sole purpose of complaining about AJ.

* Have yet to post a single entry here that is appropriate to "Humor & Urban Legends".

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Author: Ahote Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118620 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/26/2008 9:11 PM
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Probably because the people who claimed to be offended by his posts:

* Are regular extreme-liberal posters on a board where you can say practically anything as long as it's about George Bush.


Do you have any evidence for this statement?

A link?

A post?

Anything?

Most of the poeple who complained about some of the more "off color jokes" here came from other boards actually and one of averagejoe's biggest critics, TMFCheeze, was only a very occasional PA poster.

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Author: tpault Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118633 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/27/2008 6:23 AM
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Have yet to post a single entry here that is appropriate to "Humor & Urban Legends".

Names. I want names.

Paul T.

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Author: totolapse Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118642 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/27/2008 10:06 AM
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That is amazing that the baby sitter got pulled - this place is turning into a bleeding heart liberal, PC and morality extreme plac

Family Values and Phylis Shlaly are associated with which party?

Is it really all that surprising it got pulled?

Yes.

This is a family friendly site and that means what's appropriate is more in line with network sitcoms and not at all in line with The Aristocrats.

Hurl is the "garage".


I like girlie pics and crass jokes as much as the next guy

I don't think so right now.

but there's a time and place for those sorts of things.

Hurl is the place and anytime is good.

Could anyone here with a white collar office job post those kinds of pics in their office or cubicle?

We are at the house in the garage. If you asked Joe to add "Not Work Safe" to his posts I am sure he would do so. That is netiquette.

Seriously no one is going to have a picture of a row of girls in thongs up in a office.

We are at home, in the garage. My work is not here at Motley Fool.

Or on your living room wall, at least not if you have young kids in the house.

Sure. We are in the garage. The kids are on the computer in their rooms watching hard core porn. If they open one of Joe's posts, it will be pretty tame compared to what they have already scene.

YOur kids are going to do what they want to do anyway.

Every house should have a garage.

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Author: TMFOtter Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118646 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/27/2008 10:40 AM
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I don't really have a dog in this fight. I like AJ, and the interactions I had with the guy was extremely pleasant.

But he's fighting the wrong fight. And a bunch of you are throwing tantrums because you fail to want to recognize the fact that when all of you log in, you agree to a set of rules for what would be appropriate and what would not be for these boards. Neither these rules nor the application of them have really changed in a decade. You can challenge me on this, but know that I have access to every post ever pulled, posting histories, etc.

AJ's popular. He's a wonderful presence on this board. He also did not think that the rules should apply to him. This isn't a free speech issue. The Fool is not the government, and it's a complete misapplication of the term to use it in this case. Joe didn't like the rules that HE AGREED TO PLAY BY when he signed up, so he pushed the envelope. He, unfortunately, was wrong. He's not the first person who thought that lots of favorites and recommendations made him untouchable.

You might consider the broader consequences of what you're demanding of the Fool. Should someone else popular whom you loathe be given the same special treatment? And truth be told, if Joe showed up Day 1 and began linking to some of the things he posted, I doubt he'd have gotten as much leeway. Because he was popular, Joe got tons of second chances. It was never enough.

And if you think for a split second that this is somehow a pleasurable outcome for anyone at TMF, you're very much mistaken. It would be nice -- really nice -- if we did not have to allocate a nickel to managing the conversations on these boards. But I know of no broadly available unmoderated discussion board system where that doesn't devolve into least common denominator worthlessness. One of the things that the Fool holds near and dear is that financial education should be taught in schools. Not only do we assume that there are minors on these boards -- we invite them and want them to be here. Before breaking out the "we're all adults" argument, recognize that you actually have no idea whether it's true. And by the way: it's not true.

These boards are largely self-policing (which, by the way, you might think about before you respond with "uniformly apply the rules. Our board admins can't react to a post they don't see. Hmmmm?) Some boards seem perfectly willing to wallow in their own idiocy, with no one lifting a finger to notify the admins of obectively objectional posts.

So go, enjoy your new place if you must. I hope you'll stick around, and personally I'd love it if Joe chose to come back. But I'd hope that you will recognize the fact that Joe isn't currently posting is due to his own actions, and his own inability and unwillingess to follow the posting guidelines to which he agreed before he was ever let onto the boards in the first place. That's not a free speech issue. That's a contract.

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Author: johnmoni Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118652 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/27/2008 11:40 AM
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"The Motley Fool's perception appears to be that freedom of speech belongs to those (and only those) who can control it with the click of a "Delete" button."

Wait a minute, I've been told by a number of regular posters here on numerous occasions that freedom of speech doesn't exist here at the Fool because it is a privately owned entity. They've told me that I don't have the right to say whatever I want. Interesting that this poster is receiving the same treatment, but those same posters aren't telling you the same story.

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Author: ekavana186 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118654 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/27/2008 11:52 AM
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Thank you for the voice of reason.

and the suggestion: These boards are largely self-policing (which, by the way, you might think about before you respond with "uniformly apply the rules. Our board admins can't react to a post they don't see. Hmmmm?) S

Ed

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Author: CrestlineKathy Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118661 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/27/2008 12:31 PM
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TMFOtter,

I think what frustrates a lot of people here is that TMF sets "the rules" and things THEY find vuglar, obscene and whatever other words used in the schpeal emailed to poster who gets FA'd, is a gray area because each individual person on earth has their own set of standards as to what they find vulgar. I told jokes far worse than the obscene one's FA'd here when I was 10 years old but I'm sure there are others who are still pure and untouched at 35 so exactly how does one perceive what is acceptable or unacceptable? And it does seem to vary unrealistically from fool to fool. I've had jokes FA's that I've told my mother and my boss and the girls at church so I don't understand why they wouldn't be acceptable here.

Unfortunitely, now all were left with are dumb blonde jokes and the "find out if your cool test" jokes and frankly, the 6 year old I'm babysitting at this moment even found that one too lame to waste her time on.

Pictures of naked chicks, yeah I can understand that. The F word, yeah I can understand that too but most of the time, a post is pulled because one uptight fool, FA'd it and the needs of the few or the one outweigh the needs of the many (Spock would shake his head at this) so in reality, a few people are controlling what many are seeing. That's not America, or the one I live in anyway.

As for people leaving the fool, I doubt that, they just aren't stopping by this board much anymore. I still go to the movie board, the ipod board and the American Idol board (yes, I like that show, shut up!)but still, it's sad, I got some of my best forwards for emails from this board when AJ was here and they weren't all from him but his jokes led to others posting jokes of the same caliber....not anymore so my friends are laughing a lot less now and that's sad.

Kathy

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Author: blford Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118668 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/27/2008 1:52 PM
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These boards are largely self-policing (which, by the way, you might think about before you respond with "uniformly apply the rules. Our board admins can't react to a post they don't see. Hmmmm?) Some boards seem perfectly willing to wallow in their own idiocy, with no one lifting a finger to notify the admins of obectively objectional posts.

Then try explaining why TMF wouldn't stop the attacks on jiml8 several years ago? I pointed that attack out to three TMF'ers and they refused to stop it. jiml8 did nothing to break TMF's rules, but all those fools who openly attacked him on the board did and TMF knew about this and did nothing.

Bill

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Author: techie23 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118671 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/27/2008 2:25 PM
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Then try explaining why TMF wouldn't stop the attacks on jiml8 several years ago? I pointed that attack out to three TMF'ers and they refused to stop it. jiml8 did nothing to break TMF's rules, but all those fools who openly attacked him on the board did and TMF knew about this and did nothing.

Bill


I wasn't one that attacked jiml8, at least I don't recall doing so. Did you miss the post where he descibed how he abused both his wife and daughter? I myself was replied to very viciously by jiml8 about 6 months prior to the "balk" flap. He then went on the HWTSC board and bragged about it. He's the reason I stopped posting on that board.

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Author: tpault Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118673 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/27/2008 2:39 PM
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Every house should have a garage

You mean, like where the adults can sneak off for a little R'n R, maybe smoke a doobie, while their daughter gets kidnapped?

Brenda van Dam told of a long night of partying with friends that began with smoking marijuana in the garage...then going back upstairs to wake her daughter and finding her gone from her pink-and-purple bedroom
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/danielle/20020314-9999-vandam2.html

Here's probably the two best pieces of advice you're ever gonna get, as a parent. Always! know where your kids are, and don't buy cigars from Cuba (they're illegal).

Just kidding about the last one. Anyone know where I can get one?

Paul T.

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Author: tpault Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118674 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/27/2008 2:47 PM
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Did you miss the post where he descibed how he abused both his wife and daughter?

Is that like a default accusation around here?

Paul T.

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Author: techie23 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118676 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/27/2008 2:56 PM
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Did you miss the post where he descibed how he abused both his wife and daughter?

Is that like a default accusation around here?

Paul T.


No. First of all it was on the LBYM board, not this board. Second, it's not an accusation. I'd say it was a fairly accurate descrition of his post. I read it. Did you?

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Author: tpault Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118677 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/27/2008 3:03 PM
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I'd say it was a fairly accurate descrition of his post. I read it. Did you?

No. Let me guess...it was pulled?

Paul T.

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Author: techie23 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118679 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/27/2008 3:06 PM
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I'd say it was a fairly accurate descrition of his post. I read it. Did you?

No. Let me guess...it was pulled?

Paul T.


I really don't know. But I wouldn't be suprised if the whole thread was pulled.

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Author: Caffiend100 Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118683 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/27/2008 3:36 PM
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This focus on freedom of speech, due process, etc. is all wrong.

We have a divide between those who believe that the female body is beautiful and thong-wearing hotties are a perfectly acceptable viewing item. Then of course there are those who think the female body is "evil" and therefore posting pictures of it in scanty clothing is inherently also evil.

There's nothing wrong with posting photos of scantily-clad hotties on a Humor board. The female body is a beautiful thing. Unless of course one happens to be a crabby post-menopausal Bush hating, man-hating atheist lesbian, whose only meaningful relationship is with one's cat.

I believe if you actually took a poll of the people who were in favor of banning AJ, it would pretty much coincide with the subset of posters who are crabby, post-menopausal Bush hating, many hating, atheist lesbians.

But WTFDIK?

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Author: kenm47 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118684 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/27/2008 3:39 PM
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"We have a divide between those who believe that the female body is beautiful and thong-wearing hotties are a perfectly acceptable viewing item. Then of course there are those who think the female body is "evil" and therefore posting pictures of it in scanty clothing is inherently also evil."

I don't think that's it.

"But WTFDIK?"

Based on that post? Very little.

Ken

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Author: Hochizen Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118685 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/27/2008 3:41 PM
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To submit to that one-sided, arbitrary rule would be to effectively allow myself to be intellectually oppressed and become their idiological slave; and that is not who I am.

So in other words.....AJ would be "intellectually oppressed" and an "idiological slave" if he couldn't post boobies.

Sigh.

I actually will miss AJ. I liked some of his posts, the puzzles were fun. That said, the cult of AJ is kinda weird, and to claim the inability to post stuff too adult for a family site is oppressive shows a lack of understanding of what REAL oppression is.

Bush is the worst President in the history of the US.

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Author: Caffiend100 Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118686 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/27/2008 3:56 PM
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I don't really have a dog in this fight.

Hey it's good to have some input from a real Mann.

I like AJ, and the interactions I had with the guy was extremely pleasant. But he's fighting the wrong fight. And a bunch of you are throwing tantrums because you fail to want to recognize the fact that when all of you log in, you agree to a set of rules for what would be appropriate and what would not be for these boards.

It would be more accurate to say that when we log in we agree to be governed by a set of poorly-defined and ambiguous rules for which TMF reserves the right to interpret in any subjective manner they please. What is "appropriate" on Tuesday may be deemed inappropriate on Wednesday.


Neither these rules nor the application of them have really changed in a decade. You can challenge me on this, but know that I have access to every post ever pulled, posting histories, etc.

O.K. I challenge you. Please review every single pulled post ever and formulate or derive a set of objective criteria concerning posting behavior. That is the point that you [i.e. TMF] are dancing around.


AJ's popular. He's a wonderful presence on this board. He also did not think that the rules should apply to him.

Did he actually ever say that the rules should not apply to him? Or is that merely a convenient spin to put on the dispute? By the way what specific rules are you talking about?


This isn't a free speech issue.

No, it's a "rationality" issue. It's hardly fair for TMF to decide that posts which are acceptable on Tuesday are suddenly unacceptable on Wednesday.


The Fool is not the government,
and it's a complete misapplication of the term to use it in this case. Joe didn't like the rules that HE AGREED TO PLAY BY when he signed up, so he pushed the envelope.


Again what objective rule(s) did he actually violate, and how can we tell?


He, unfortunately, was wrong. He's not the first person who thought that lots of favorites and recommendations made him untouchable.


This is so tautological. The only way we know that he is "wrong" is because he was banned. The reason that he was banned is because he was "wrong." No one here knows that they are "wrong" until they receive the e-mail saying they have been banned. Surely you would agree that most people don't set out to intentionally violate rules so as to get themselves banned.

You might consider the broader consequences of what you're demanding of the Fool. Should someone else popular whom you loathe be given the same special treatment? And truth be told, if Joe showed up Day 1 and began linking to some of the things he posted, I doubt he'd have gotten as much leeway. Because he was popular, Joe got tons of second chances. It was never enough.

More TMF spin. AJ's posting were considered within the rules and appropriate. Then TMF changed whatever its subjective standards were. This is called "sandbagging" in any other context.


And if you think for a split second that this is somehow a pleasurable outcome for anyone at TMF, you're very much mistaken. It would be nice -- really nice -- if we did not have to allocate a nickel to managing the conversations on these boards. But I know of no broadly available unmoderated discussion board system where that doesn't devolve into least common denominator worthlessness. One of the things that the Fool holds near and dear is that financial education should be taught in schools. Not only do we assume that there are minors on these boards -- we invite them and want them to be here. Before breaking out the "we're all adults" argument, recognize that you actually have no idea whether it's true. And by the way: it's not true.

You entirely miss the point of the discussion and the issue, which is AJ posted according to a standard of behavior which heretofore was deemed entirely acceptable by TMF, then suddenly became unacceptable. Obviously something happened and you are not being truthful or candid about why TMF suddenly decided that AJ needed to be banned. Obviously "something" must have been a catalysis for ousting AJ and you continue to dissimulate by denying that reality. The rules obviously have not "been the same for 10 years" because if that were true AJ would not have been banned.

These boards are largely self-policing (which, by the way, you might think about before you respond with "uniformly apply the rules. Our board admins can't react to a post they don't see. Hmmmm?) Some boards seem perfectly willing to wallow in their own idiocy, with no one lifting a finger to notify the admins of obectively objectional posts.

Obviously one would expect that a humor board would have lots of wallowing in idiocy.

So go, enjoy your new place if you must. I hope you'll stick around, and personally I'd love it if Joe chose to come back. But I'd hope that you will recognize the fact that Joe isn't currently posting is due to his own actions, and his own inability and unwillingess to follow the posting guidelines to which he agreed before he was ever let onto the boards in the first place. That's not a free speech issue. That's a contract.

A contract? A so-called contract whose terms are so vague that no one can tell what is expected from day to day is not really valid.

Let us all know when you have reviewed every single one of those pulled posts through history as you promised above and what set of objective posting rules you have been able to derive when you are finished. Please try to get finished with this assignment by New Year's Eve 2012.

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Author: TMFOtter Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118689 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/27/2008 4:42 PM
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Again what objective rule(s) did he actually violate, and how can we tell?

Why don't you work out your eyeballs for a few minutes on this -- which you also agreed to. These rules seem pretty clear and unambiguous to me. If you've got cheap legal services around you, you might see whether they'd hold up as a contract.

http://www.fool.com/help/index.htm?display=newuser02

Conduct

The Motley Fool champions active and open debate among our members. All we ask is that it's done in a lawful and civil manner - be it posting on our boards or using our system to email a poster directly. Accordingly, you agree to use The Motley Fool for lawful purposes only. You may not use or allow others to use your Fool membership to:

Post or transmit any content that is disruptive, uncivil, abusive, vulgar, profane, obscene, hateful, fraudulent, threatening, harassing, defamatory, or which discloses private or personal matters concerning any person;

Post or transmit any material that you don't have the right to transmit under law (such as copyright, trade secret or securities) or under contractual or fiduciary relationships (such as nondisclosure agreements);

Post, transmit, or link to sexually explicit material;

Impersonate any person, or falsely state or otherwise misrepresent your affiliation with a person or entity;

Post or transmit any advertising, promotional materials, or other forms of solicitation including chain letters and pyramid schemes;

Violate any applicable law or regulation while accessing and using our sites, including, without limitation, the rules and regulations of the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission and the national or other securities exchanges, (especially and including the rule against making false or misleading statements to manipulate the price of any security);

Offer, sell, or buy any security;

Post or transmit any file that contains viruses, corrupted files, "Trojan Horses," or any other contaminating or destructive features that may damage someone's computer;

Forge headers or manipulate identifiers or other data in order to disguise the origin of any content transmitted through our sites or to manipulate your presence on our sites;

Use any automated means, including without limitation, agents, robots, scripts, or spiders, to access, monitor, copy or harvest data from any part of our sites;

Take any action that imposes an unreasonably or disproportionately large load on our infrastructure or disrupts the functioning of our systems or Services; and

Take any action that damages or disrupts the functioning of our systems or services.

Unauthorized access to our sites is a breach of these Terms and Conditions and a violation of the law. You agree not to access our sites by any means other than through the interfaces we provide for use in our accessing our sites.

The Motley Fool may at any time, without prior notice and at our sole discretion, remove any post, terminate the membership, or take any action for violating the above (and if we may say so, sensible) provisions or otherwise take an action disruptive to a Service. In the event of termination of a premium Service, you will receive a pro-rated refund.

You are responsible for statements made and actions taken through the use of your password, so please maintain the confidentiality of your password. You agree to immediately notify Member Support of any actual or suspected unauthorized use of your username and password. We will not be responsible for any loss to you arising from unauthorized use of your data. For more information on posting, please see our Posting Guidelines.


It seems at the end of the day there's no winning for our board admins. If they use their own professional judgment, they're capricious or biased, if they apply rules without consideration of facts in evidence they're authoritarian.

Averagjoe broke rules that he was very much aware of (even if you, who are irrelevant to that particular equation, are ignorant of them). The reason I know he was aware of them is that they were explained to him countless times in the past when he violated them.

And he hasn't been banned. He's choosing not to post. Or maybe in your zeal to come up with an ad hominem involving my name that you failed to read the original post in this string as well.

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Author: ekavana186 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118691 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/27/2008 5:21 PM
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Otter,

I think you are explaining this in a most appropriate manner ands I think it's difficult for folks to focus on your message because it is, I think the term is, cognitive dissonance. For example, your posting of the rules includes:

Post or transmit any content that is disruptive, uncivil, abusive, vulgar, profane, obscene, hateful, fraudulent, threatening, harassing, defamatory, or which discloses private or personal matters concerning any person;

Have you ever visited 'Political Asylum'? Last year some long time members left 'Current Events' for the same reason.

I know Joe is no longer banned, it is Joe's decision to post or not post. But I know that my concern about TMF boards are the apparent 'free pass' that is given to some members to violate the above rule while others get penalized. If you need some examples start with the posts to AJ around the time of his suspension, and the other posts in HURL at that time. It seems to me at other times there was a concerted effort to bump <posters name> from the board the first time he went his own way, the second time we managed to avert a major blowup. The aggressive nature of the folks that participate in these cyber-lynchings is appalling (and reminiscent of the Yahoo boards) TMF has been very good at keeping the boards reasonably civil but when one group appears to be allowed free rein the judgement of the monitors come into question.

my two cents,

Ed

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Author: spl241 Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118693 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/27/2008 5:30 PM
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You entirely miss...the issue, which is AJ posted according to a standard of behavior which heretofore was deemed entirely acceptable, then suddenly became unacceptable. Obviously something happened...

Re: all this shouting about "objectivity," "criteria," and "standards of behavior"...

...there's a stubborn-as-hell bottom line that no one's touched yet. If they have, I apologize. Sometimes TMF reminds me of a grocery store. The price is one thing on Tuesday, another one on Friday. We can imagine why that happened, but only a real kook would storm into the office and demand justification. We pay the new price, grit our teeth, and go on.

You're at a restaurant and have a problem. Depending on who's on duty, you may get anything from a questioning look to half-off to a fully comp'd. meal that night plus another night.

The REAL world is full of capriciousness. We not only expect it, but we learn to cope with it as well. To do otherwise invites, well, a helluva lot of unpleasant things.

I miss AJ. He's lightened many a day for me. I hope he returns. Oh, that stubborn bottom line I almost forgot to mention?

This is TMF's house & TMF's rules. They may be whimsical and aggravating, but I think a whole bunch of us better start to suck it up and go forward.

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Author: tpault Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118694 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/27/2008 5:30 PM
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It seems at the end of the day there's no winning for our board admins. If they use their own professional judgment, they're capricious or biased, if they apply rules without consideration of facts in evidence they're authoritarian.

Well I mean, don't be too hard on yourselves. Many of us think you admins do just a fine job, and you are winners, either way!

There may have been times in the lengthy past when a wreckless poster was a chum of sum yung guy (with admin priveledges), but for the most part MF is a bunch of upstanding people.

For pete's sakes, this is just common sense anyway. It's somewhat absurd that anyone would argue with the hosts, as to what the rules are. "Inconsistency" is just a cheap charge that can be carelessy bandied about as a substitute for having no real argument. If there was any inconsistency, it was with giving some posters way more chances to straighten up than others.

'Sides, once the doodookaka privateparts jokester is done sulking, he'll be back. And then it will be a true test of his comedic prowess...make people laugh without pointing to pp or doodee.

Paul T.

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Author: ekavana186 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118695 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/27/2008 5:44 PM
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I miss AJ. He's lightened many a day for me. I hope he returns. Oh, that stubborn bottom line I almost forgot to mention?

This is TMF's house & TMF's rules. They may be whimsical and aggravating, but I think a whole bunch of us better start to suck it up and go forward.


Right again, but I hope you understand that it is how the capriciousness is doled out,...,is it determined fairly? is it equally spread around all members? or is it determined by whining and complaining tight glutenous maximas with an axe to grind?

Dr. MLK and the civil rights movement led to a lot of changes in this country (some say not enough), but his most valuable lesson I believe was 'to judge one by the content of their character'.

My experience with AJ was that he is a man of character with an interesting backstory who skates the line of propriety in his posts but is very conscious of his behavior and community.

Ed

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Author: feedmeNOWhuman Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118699 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/27/2008 6:20 PM
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Otter: Not only do we assume that there are minors on these boards -- we invite them and want them to be here. Before breaking out the "we're all adults" argument, recognize that you actually have no idea whether it's true. And by the way: it's not true... I'd hope that you will recognize the fact that Joe isn't currently posting is due to his own actions, and his own inability and unwillingess to follow the posting guidelines to which he agreed before he was ever let onto the boards in the first place. That's not a free speech issue. That's a contract.



If minors cannot legally sign a contract, how can they be allowed to post here?

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Author: gurdison Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118704 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/27/2008 7:05 PM
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<Averagjoe broke rules that he was very much aware of. The reason I know he was aware of them is that they were explained to him countless times in the past when he violated them.>


I have enjoyed the vast majority of AJs posts. For any that I didn't particularly like, I merely hit the NEXT button.

I can grant you that AJ was good at pushing the envelope. I can also accept that the posting rules were explained to him enough times for him to know that he was skating near the edge.

I like the concept of civility. By choice I tend to visit the boards where that is the usual practice (with some occasional exceptions). I did go through some volatile times at the REHP. The issue there (and here as well as many other places) came to the surface when people who were not board contributors piled into the room. Those who disrupt a board tend to be one trick ponies. They grab on to one topic or issue and hardly ever add anything that related to the boards established purpose. That gets the regulars all wound up and the tone noticibly changes.

It is possible, and often enjoyable to carry on intelligent conversations with people whom you disagree with. When you start with respect on both sides, each person can make their case strongly and still maintain a civil dialog. The main reason why this works on many boards is that people who have been around long enough have gotten to know eachother as a whole person. So while one may have a strong difference of opinion with another board member over political issues, they may share an interest in food, movies, vacation spots, careers, sports, humor, etc. When someone new comes to a board and is rude, nasty and uncivil without adding anything positive, it naturally ruffles some feathers.

What I have noticed (and aparently others have too) is that a lot of the disruption here came from people on the PA board. There is a tremendous amount of irony in that. That place is the most uncivil place on the Fool. I consider it uninhabitable. The everyday content on that board violates a whole bunch of the very things you indicate as being part of the TOS. It upsets a lot of people that disruptive, uncivil, abusive, vulgar, profane, intolerant, hateful, harassing and defamatory behaviour is routinely allowed to be practiced there.

Normally, my choice is to stay away from places like that. Unfortunately, whenever I hit the "Best of" feature it is largely filled with posts from that disgusting place. There is nothing that even resembles intelligent discussion that goes on there. I wish it were possible to have the best of list exclude anything from that board, but that is something that we have been waiting for for some time.

So, to summarize, I can understand AJ being given a timeout based on the Fools TOS. The problem I and others have is that a lot of posters who routinely go way beyond AJs behavior are not subjected to the same TOS timeouts. If they in fact are, it is a very well kept secret.



B

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Author: Ahote Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118706 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/27/2008 8:25 PM
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What I have noticed (and aparently others have too) is that a lot of the disruption here came from people on the PA board.

The same ol' crapola.

Can anyone please finally produce something akin to a link to a 'disruptive post' by someone who regularly frequents PA. Hint: a disruptive post is not one that simply puts up an opposing view - these are called 'discussion boards.'

Please.

This is like the ultimate urban legend here on HURL. Enough already.

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Author: blford Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118715 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/27/2008 9:50 PM
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Then try explaining why TMF wouldn't stop the attacks on jiml8 several years ago? I pointed that attack out to three TMF'ers and they refused to stop it. jiml8 did nothing to break TMF's rules, but all those fools who openly attacked him on the board did and TMF knew about this and did nothing.

Bill

Did you miss the post where he descibed how he abused both his wife and daughter?


If we're talking about the same 400+ posts thread, he never said he abused his wife or daughter. fools twisted his words around and said that he did though.

Regardless of what was or was not said by Jim in that particular thread, why should anyone have been allowed to openly attack him like they did!!?? That is, according to TMFOtter, against TMF's TOS. Yet it was allowed to happen.

THAT'S what I have a problem with.

Bill

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Author: MadCapitalist Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118720 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/27/2008 10:59 PM
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It seems at the end of the day there's no winning for our board admins. If they use their own professional judgment, they're capricious or biased, if they apply rules without consideration of facts in evidence they're authoritarian.

I think the biggest problem is that the rules are applied very inconsistently.

Look at these posts from CarlHungus that I quickly found by just scanning his most recommended posts (I'm sure that people can find several of my posts that are inappropriate too).

I've got a novel idea, how bout you offer your advice, or shut your pie hole.
http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=21471398

If you have all this money saved up, then why don't you splurge and buy a sense of humor.
http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=23998123

Perhaps you need someone a little less mature?
http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=26290190

The only thing lamer than an IT nerd is an IT nerd what is desperate to prove how unlame he is.
http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=25770830

- T, knee pain makes me bitchy.

If your knee has been hurting for this long you may want to consider seeing a doctor.

http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=24306320

It takes a really big person to choose to ignore just those with whom you don't agree, joe. It takes an even bigger person to publicly state it.

It also takes a pretty big jacka$$ to start a political debate on a humor board whose motto is rapidly becoming "take it to PA".

http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=23966420

Everybody complains out here at TMF - it reminds me of a bad Monty Python skit. For example, check out that Snippet board - what a bunch of whiners and complainers. But that's the culture here so what can one expect?

Dude you're such an a$$. Go fondle your TESTE award.

http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=21883441

How about you cuts his balls into 2 little hearts?
http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=25018000

Could you two just meet and f%&k already so that you can end this semi-oogie internet mating dance that you seem to be partaking in?
http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=23858280

Pointing out your lameness will never be lame. It's like a navy blue suit.
http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=25942726

By the way, if this chick is looking for a rebound to cheer her up a bit, let me know.


RJ - helpful


I would, but I imagine she'd be looking for a step up from me. Get back to me when you've got a job and your wang is no longer covered with Cheeto dust.

http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=22584490

and TeraGram

Only if fortitude and persistence involves having multiple conniptions every day.

http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=24168609

But, I'd like it if teragram returned.

That makes one of us.

http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=24917033

Big Manly Balls?
http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=23503429

ppps- I didn't think you could get any more pathetic.

I could make my screnname my real name spelled backwards and then become a pompous know-it-all.

I think that would be pretty pathetic.

http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=25312496

Again, I think it's frightening to think so many people LIKE to see hurt, disappointment and humiliation.

I thought you agreed to stop posting about your sex life.

http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=25090632

So let me get this straight, MadCap. You come here bringin some garbage about Brady having better protection than Manning. You then offer no evidence of support for this other than "I've seen it".

When Pup offers up a stat, not only do you dismiss it, but you continue to offer no support. And then you sarcastically reply "brilliant argument" to other people?

WARNING! WARNING! IRONY ALERT!!!!

http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=25887030

Just so I'm clear...You can call me out in threads where I'm not even involved, but when I call you on your craptastic know-it-all ways, I have a "hard on" for you?
http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=25752759

No. A poster what tries to impose his own views on a board that already has an established culture and set of rules is LAME LAME LAME. If you want a board that posts open letters with varying subject lines, go start one…

…Ah, the rallying cry of the idiot. It is not "cliquish" to have a board culture. It is normal, and it is the reason why there are varied boards for various posters and interests. It is, however, boorish and stupid to try and impose your views wherever you see fit.

http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=26106026

PS- JM, I know you FAd my post but I would still like to punch you in the face. I'm not saying I will, or making a threat, I'm just saying that said act would bring pleasure to me.
http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=21589902

You're really good at pretending to take the high road. Fortunately, stuff like this reveals your true nature to those of us that didn't fall asleep before finishing reading your post.
http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=25202852

Dude. You got a new team, and not only that, but they won a Super Bowl in under a decade. You're starting to sound like a 5 year old. MINE MINE MINE!!! Get over it already.
http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=25082583

Now take your close-minded, dry-cooched, prejudiced 'Christian' ass to the flogging house for penenance. I think people here are sick of it, except for laughing at.
http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=21867214

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Author: DBAVelvet74 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118721 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/27/2008 11:06 PM
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Bush is the worst President in the history of the US.

rec-whore

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Author: CrestlineKathy Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118723 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/28/2008 12:08 AM
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Oh and another thing TMFOtter and others, this really is no longer about AJ, he just brought this problem to the surface. I'm talking about who it is who decides what's proper and what isn't. What you may see as vulgar, others may not so how do we really know what we can or cannot do? Also as I said earlier, if every joke, pic, video worth anything is going to be pulled and all we are left with is lame riddles that kids get on dixie cups, there's simply no point in being here if you're an adult.

You say there might be a kid or two around....so I guess they are the ones this is now geared for (that needs of the few out weighing the needs of the many thing again). Funny, I just asked my 12 and 13 year old buddies here who are all over the web and they've never heard of this site and said it sounded boring. All they care about is Myspace, Youtube and Webkins.

Rapping up, I know that nothing is going to change and no one at TMF will ever be able to clearly state what is or isn't acceptable, the decision is made case by case and pulled if it doesn't suit the ONE person viewing it with TMF power and that is the problem.

We'll just have to locate alternate sources for humor and oh I don't know, maybe use this site for it's original purpose, financial advice. Crazy idea, huh?

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Author: SixFootSevenFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118726 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/28/2008 12:38 AM
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Dear MadCapitalist,

1) You have way too much time on your hands
2) Don't mistake my rec as a show of support for you. I just appreciate you bundling CH's best posts into one-stop shopping.

Thanks!

-shorty

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Author: JannyGruenig Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118730 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/28/2008 3:23 AM
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Post or transmit any content that is disruptive, uncivil, abusive, vulgar, profane, obscene, hateful, fraudulent, threatening, harassing, defamatory, or which discloses private or personal matters concerning any person;


Suggestion: TMF could delete all posts of the last 3 month's?

Janny

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Author: tpault Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118731 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/28/2008 6:11 AM
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The problem I and others have is that a lot of posters who routinely go way beyond

You say there's posters who routinely go way beyond his behavior. Yet, I remind you, that he would post a 99% naked woman, then get 49 recs for it. Then there'd be a stream of "Yeah, that's what I'm talkin' about!" encouragers. Then he'd post another almost completely naked woman. Then the post would get taken down. Then he'd post another nearly naked woman, and get 167 recs for it and 94 replies from fellow male chauvenists who say "Yeah, that's what I'm talkin' about!" Then MF would remove the post. Then he'd come on here and talk about what trash the owners and hosts of this site are. Then he'd post another nude-ish woman. Then he'd get another 83 recs. Then 49 posters would say, "Yeah, that's what we're talkin' about!" Then he'd post a picture of a man with his hands down his pants up to his elbows. Then post a dirty joke. Then post a picture of him with...what appears to practically be a child of but about 17, 18 years old, almost fully nude. Then MF would take the post down. Then he'd post a link to him giving Tom & Dave Gardner the finger. Then he'd sulk. Then he'd post a puzzle of 4 women with just a string over their lovely lady lumps. Then 63 people would rec it. Then 28 people would reply with "Yeah, that's what I'm talkin' about!" Then he'd post a picture of, a child, really, giving the finger to MF. I don't know where he gets these little girls...over at my18thbirtdhaywas5minutesago.com? They gotta be 50-60 years his junior. Or as Ken asked...his great great grandchildren? What really saddens me is the fact that the young (ladies?) teenagers have traded in their dignity for...some rich guy who'll pay them $200 to pose naked...for Motley Fool? Or worse, their pictures being scoured from the internet, then photoshopped with the creepy Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer's JJJJJJJJJJJJohnny smile cropped into every pic?

Then, every once in awhile, someone would come along and post a joke about a woman, a preacher, and two tickets to Pittsburgh. Then one of his fans would be quick to point out how that joke was already told once, back in two-thousand-ought-one.

Then he'd post another 250 naked women.

Then, he got a timeout.

No, I'd say he's the most flagrant TOS violator I've seen in my 9 or so years on MF.

And I gotta tell ya, it's a little creepy. I mean, I feel bad about some of the things said here, but why do I feel like this board is like a WalMart, that Larry Flint set up a photoshoot in? I shouldn't have to feel that way in a Motley Fool forum, I should be able to trust this place. I mean, I may get yelled at and treated like an old dish rag sometimes, but at least MF does a good job of upholding decency. I can expect to come here and not stumble across naked chicks. Wow, imagine that. Is that too much to ask for? Just because some people are more brash than others in here, it doesn't mean anyone can righteously call MF hypocrits for trying to curb the lunacy of near pornographic posts.

This post mentions no one by name, except me.

Paul T.

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Author: MadCapitalist Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118732 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/28/2008 6:12 AM
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Dear MadCapitalist,

1) You have way too much time on your hands
2) Don't mistake my rec as a show of support for you. I just appreciate you bundling CH's best posts into one-stop shopping.

Thanks!

-shorty


Dear shorty,

1) It didn't take long
2) Here are his 99 most recommended posts:
http://boards.fool.com/LastPosts.asp?uid=142819690&limit=99&byrecs=y

You can do this for anyone if you just change the "uid" number in the URL.

Enjoy.

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Author: MadCapitalist Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118733 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/28/2008 6:20 AM
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The problem I and others have is that a lot of posters who routinely go way beyond

You say there's posters who routinely go way beyond his behavior. Yet, I remind you, that he would post a 99% naked woman, then get 49 recs for it. Then there'd be a stream of "Yeah, that's what I'm talkin' about!" encouragers.


You forgot to add the part about the stream of whiners who complain about seeing a woman in a bikini because she is 99% naked, which is perfectly acceptable on a public beach, but for some reason isn't acceptable on a public forum. You know the people I'm talking about. These are the people who just *had* to click on aj's link so that they would have something to complain about.

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Author: it409 Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118736 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/28/2008 6:38 AM
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Then he'd post a picture of, a child, really, giving the finger to MF.

Are you sure the finger was being giving to MF and not someone else?
And after all the complaining you have done about AJ and you still visited his site. What were you expecting?

oj
My grandmother has a bumper sticker on her car that says, 'Sexy Senior Citizen'. You don't want to think of your grandmother that way, do you? Out entering wet shawl contests. Makes you wonder where she got that dollar she gave you for your birthday.

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Author: OleDocJ Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118738 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/28/2008 7:08 AM
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Bush is the worst President in the history of the US

Hilary Clinton was the worst First "Lady" [cough! cough!] in the history of the US.


OleDoc

OJ:

Well, I didn't use the B word, did I?

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Author: OleDocJ Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118739 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/28/2008 7:27 AM
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It seems at the end of the day there's no winning for our board admins. If they use their own professional judgment, they're capricious or biased, if they apply rules without consideration of facts in evidence they're authoritarian.

May I propose a simple solution to this dilemma?

In many cases, the deletion of an inappropriate post is somewhat questionable - a "judgment call", if you will. I will give you that. BUT, the current system in effect allows anonymous posters to make that decision by simply "pushing a button" anonymously!

My simple solution, which may have complications, is to simply list those people who recommended that the post be deleted (FA'd). For example, simply state that

"This post has been deleted based on the judgment of The Motley Fool following having received a Fool Alert from [Fool Name] or [Fool Names]."

This would be much more informative to the Fool Community than simply saying (capriciously) that some cosmic black hole has swallowed the post you are trying to access!!!

The benefit of such a policy, or a similar policy, would hold both the poster and the FA'er accountable for their actions.

At present, under your current system, the FA'er can attack a Fool poster with impunity because there is no mechanism by which they can be held accountable.


OleDoc

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Author: untrainable1 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118741 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/28/2008 8:16 AM
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At present, under your current system, the FA'er can attack a Fool poster with impunity because there is no mechanism by which they can be held accountable.

OleDoc


Or they could "Ignore Fool" on AJ and never read any of his posts again.

JB

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Author: BobSch Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118749 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/28/2008 9:05 AM
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Or they could "Ignore Fool" on AJ and never read any of his posts again.

But then they wouldn't have anything to b***ch about.

Bob

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Author: kentm401 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118751 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/28/2008 9:24 AM
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Otter - you might want to consider posting this on some other "un-ruley" boards as well....LOL

Good points tho....

KBM (ever the "peace-maker".....;o)

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Author: GardenStateFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118752 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/28/2008 9:30 AM
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I believe if you actually took a poll of the people who were in favor of banning AJ, it would pretty much coincide with the subset of posters who are crabby, post-menopausal Bush hating, many hating, atheist lesbians.

But WTFDIK?


Excellent question. Come back when you're able to answer it.

GSF
Bush-hating atheist who thinks this whole thing is utterly ridiculous, and actually likes Joe.

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Author: GreatVintage1965 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118754 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/28/2008 9:40 AM
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So, to summarize, I can understand AJ being given a timeout based on the Fools TOS. The problem I and others have is that a lot of posters who routinely go way beyond AJs behavior are not subjected to the same TOS timeouts. If they in fact are, it is a very well kept secret.

That's the thing. Pulled posts and Timeouts are NOT advertised by TMF. Most of these things happen quietly behind the scenes. Not so this case. And that is the only difference.

If you see a post that should be FA'd according to TMF policy or your own opinion, simply FA the post. You can even type a description of your reason for the FA.

The FA option can also be used to nominate posts for the Post-Of-The-Day feature, since the FA button brings a post to a staffer's attention. Again, simply type a description of your reason for nominating for Post-Of-The-Day.

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Author: cattleman22 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118757 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/28/2008 9:59 AM
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{{These boards are largely self-policing (which, by the way, you might think about before you respond with "uniformly apply the rules. Our board admins can't react to a post they don't see. Hmmmm?) Some boards seem perfectly willing to wallow in their own idiocy, with no one lifting a finger to notify the admins of obectively objectional posts.}}


Don't you dare go there. You do not want posters to FA posts which violate the terms of service. In fact you have used the punishment of suspension if a poster FA's too many posts which violated the terms of service.


c

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Author: IndecisiveFool Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118760 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/28/2008 10:14 AM
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Don't you dare go there. You do not want posters to FA posts which violate the terms of service. In fact you have used the punishment of suspension if a poster FA's too many posts which violated the terms of service.

Actually you were FAing posts that did not violate the terms of service. You were just doing it to disrupt some boards. You didn't like it when TMF deleted some posts on REHP so you went on a FAing spree. You were even upfront that you were going to FA posts with a liberal stance.

IF

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Author: cattleman22 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118761 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/28/2008 10:26 AM
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{{Actually you were FAing posts that did not violate the terms of service. You were just doing it to disrupt some boards. You didn't like it when TMF deleted some posts on REHP so you went on a FAing spree. You were even upfront that you were going to FA posts with a liberal stance.}}


That is a factually inaccurate post. Everyone of the posts I FA'ed was a clear violation of the terms of service. If the posts had not been violations, they would not have been deleted and thus no "pot stirring" would have occurred. But because the posts were violations, the TMF powers that be had two choices: they could delete the posts that violated the terms of service or they could suspend the person who notified them of the posts which violated the terms of service. The TMF powers that be chose the latter option. That is why it is completely pathetic that another TMF power that be says that they encourage people to FA posts which violate terms of service.



c

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Author: Hochizen Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118765 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/28/2008 10:47 AM
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Hilary Clinton was the worst First "Lady" [cough! cough!] in the history of the US.


OleDoc


Might be so, as she did more than just be a Xanax-enhanced smilebot like Laura....who DOES bear an uncanny resemblance to a famous arch villian.

http://www.bongonews.com/layout4.php?event=1725

Hillary will make a GREAT President, however!

Bush is the worst President in the history of the US.

HILLARY ROCKS!

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Author: untrainable1 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118767 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/28/2008 10:50 AM
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Hillary will make a GREAT President, however!

Bush is the worst President in the history of the US.

HILLARY ROCKS!


Hochizen,

We know you've drunk the koolaid.

You don't have to keep on repeating yourself.

JB

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Author: Ahote Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118769 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/28/2008 10:53 AM
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Rapping up, I know that nothing is going to change and no one at TMF will ever be able to clearly state what is or isn't acceptable, the decision is made case by case and pulled if it doesn't suit the ONE person viewing it with TMF power and that is the problem.


How is it that after 61/2 years you don't get the system.

If someone finds a post offensive, they can flag it.

TMF runs the boards for free so they don't have time to scan each flagged email and decide whether at another time, similar content was posted and NOT pulled or whether a post should get pulled or not based on the link that it links to.

Basically, if it's flagged, it pretty much gets pulled. You could probably have this post pulled by FAing it.

That's how You-Tube works aloing with a dozen other sites.

Why is it that you are so determined to enforce your own perception of how to run a website on the staff here?


Also as I said earlier, if every joke, pic, video worth anything is going to be pulled and all we are left with is lame riddles that kids get on dixie cups, there's simply no point in being here if you're an adult.

Geez, if the only reason you come to TMF is for the humor that is sad - I mean, join your 13-year old buddies and scan a dozen other sites if all you want is humor.

Here's a list to start with:

www.kontraband.com
www.filecabi.net
www.jokes.com
www.youtube.com
www.devilducky.com
www.gorillamask.net
www.collegehumor.com
www.pistolwimp.com


Same goes for those who want to see breasts whilst pretending to their family that they're not interested in it. All that stuff is available out there. Why don't you get it at the source instead of insisting that TMF change its rules so that someone else can provide the link here to accomodate your.... lack of ability to be curious enough to surf the world wide web?

Honestly. I'd really like to understand that.

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Author: spl241 Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118771 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/28/2008 10:58 AM
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OleDocJ wants to *prescribe*......

<My simple solution, which may have complications, is to list people who recommended that the post be deleted...>

If this happened, no place on TMF would be "researched" as much as the list of alerters. In theory, I think your idea is great! So much curiosity would be satisfied. The ID of habitual FA'ers would surface. Heads would nod knowingly and eyes would roll.

So while I LOVE the theory behind OldDocJ's prescription, I see horrible "side effects" to this med. If you think this whole AJ Thing is cantankerous now, WTH do you think would happen if the alerters' ID's were known? There'd be personal attacks ad nauseam/ad infinitum, and the FA level would skyrocket. The current waves would be a pebble dropped into a pond vs. a fatal tsunami.

(May as well create a new board: "Grind Your Ax.")

<..under your current system, the FA'er can attack with impunity because there is no mechanism by which they can be held accountable.>

I feel that hitting "report this post" constitutes only a PLEA of sorts, not a slam-dunk for removal. Here's a statistic I'd love to know: how many FA's get received, considered, and rejected? How often do the admin's. have one helluva good laugh at what they feel is a preposterous request? Is there a note in some FA'ers boxes saying, "We find no basis to remove the post?" I still choose to believe that some alerters receive more consideration than habitually troublesome others.

YMMV & JMHO, of course.

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Author: techie23 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118777 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/28/2008 11:32 AM
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If we're talking about the same 400+ posts thread, he never said he abused his wife or daughter.

That's where you are wrong. Did you read the post? Would you ever treat your wife or daughter like that? I sure as hell wouldn't.

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Author: DorothyM Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118786 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/28/2008 12:20 PM
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Did you miss the post where he descibed how he abused both his wife and daughter?

Is that like a default accusation around here?

Paul T.
------------
No. First of all it was on the LBYM board, not this board. Second, it's not an accusation. I'd say it was a fairly accurate descrition of his post. I read it. Did you?



I got into this thread through the Best of board -- I have no opinion on AJ, although he posted some very nice pics on the Birding board a couple of months ago.

But I digress -- techie23 is absolutely right about the spouse and child abuse post on the LBYM board. It was so explicit and surprising (dare I say "shocking") that I remember being stunned, unable to believe what I was reading. TMF dithered while several boards pretty much blew up over the controversy about whether the guy's knowledge of computers was more important than his abuse of his family -- opinion on both sides was loud and unshakable. Everybody here survived; some people left but were unmourned.

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Author: cattleman22 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118787 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/28/2008 12:24 PM
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{{(May as well create a new board: "Grind Your Ax.") }}


Some of the TMF powers that be had no problem with a board called "FA For All," while others did have a problem with it.


c

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Author: cattleman22 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118795 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/28/2008 1:07 PM
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{{For pete's sakes, this is just common sense anyway. It's somewhat absurd that anyone would argue with the hosts, as to what the rules are. "Inconsistency" is just a cheap charge that can be carelessy bandied about as a substitute for having no real argument. If there was any inconsistency, it was with giving some posters way more chances to straighten up than others.}}


This is BS. Inconsistency is not a cheap charge, it is extremely accurate. I received a suspension for engaging in behavior which I received an email from a TMF power saying it was acceptable. Now, TMFOtter is encouraging people to engage in FA'ing posts when I was suspended for doing just that.


c

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Author: Anibaldo Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118796 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/28/2008 1:11 PM
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These boards are largely self-policing (which, by the way, you might think about before you respond with "uniformly apply the rules. Our board admins can't react to a post they don't see. Hmmmm?) Some boards seem perfectly willing to wallow in their own idiocy, with no one lifting a finger to notify the admins of obectively objectional posts.

Well, I can understand your reference to Worst.Board.Ever. and the folks posting there. What I don't get, is why 'self-policing' on other boards than WBE by WBE folks should be taken seriously.

Sample:
http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=26107452&bid=113185&sort=whole

How absurd the whole game is, here:
http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=26158891&bid=113185&sort=whole

Abe

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Author: ekavana186 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118801 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/28/2008 1:48 PM
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This post is hateful and disruptive

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Author: CrestlineKathy Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118810 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/28/2008 3:40 PM
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<<Geez, if the only reason you come to TMF is for the humor that is sad - I mean, join your 13-year old buddies and scan a dozen other sites if all you want is humor.
>>

I guess you missed my other posts about the other boards I also visit. I don't know where you got the idea that I use this site only for humor, I used this board only for humor. Big difference that pretty much anyone with an IQ higher that Forest Gump would be able to comprehend and I believe you do know that, you just wanted to be snotty....and that's ok because in that loooooong list of TMF rules, the word snotty does not appear.

Kathy

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Author: tpault Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118813 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/28/2008 4:08 PM
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Hilary Clinton was the worst First "Lady"

I think if you asked Bill, he'd say on some nights she was the "second" or "third" lady.

Paul T.

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Author: tpault Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118816 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/28/2008 4:35 PM
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This is BS. Inconsistency is not a cheap charge, it is extremely accurate

You know what? So what if there is inconsistency. I HOPE there's inconsistency, and this isn't some kind of robot patrolled board that doesn't use judgement. If you come out on the short end of the stick this time, oh well bub, suck it up, learn from it, and either keep posting with adjustments or move on. You're preaching to the choir here anyway. My posts were routinely deleted while posts that literally threatened me
in my own home, were allowed to stay up. Lucky for me, I had recently been on a radio show with David Gardner, so I msg'ed him asking him to clear up the situation, and he did.

Had the situation not cleared up, so what. Suck it up or move on. Because life's not fair, it doesn't mean no one should ever be moderated, ever, no matter the violation. Listen to your argument. The inconsistency argument defeats itself because it doesn't hold up to the litmus test. The inconsitency argument is, well its... inconsistent.

Paul T.

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Author: tpault Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118818 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/28/2008 4:43 PM
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simply list those people who recommended that the post be deleted

What? And abolish the FA Witness Protection Program? I can see it now...

Vinnie: "Don't nun ya rat b@$ta78$ finger me, yaz see? Whatz I'm gunna do to yas, well I'm gonna come to your houses and, well remember dat one scene from Goodfellas? Da one where day turned da basement into a butcher shop? AhahaheaequeHackhackcough...cracks me up every time! Course, nun ya's gonna report dis post neider, cause Motley Fool see...dayz gonna rat ya out to me'n da boys, got it?"

I think we should leave the FA Witness Protection Program alone for now. Anonymity rocks!

Paul T., who's only requested a few posts in ten years be removed, more than half of which, weren't.

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Author: TraderJime Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118820 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/28/2008 5:16 PM
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Here's a statistic I'd love to know: how many FA's get received, considered, and rejected?

That would be telling.

The Prisoner.

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Author: Ziege19 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118824 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/28/2008 6:07 PM
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"This post has been deleted based on the judgment of The Motley Fool following having received a Fool Alert from [Fool Name] or [Fool Names]."

Yea, because the only thing more entertaining than watching a bunch of crybabies whine about TMF (while continuing to use their website of course) would be to turn every FA into a flame war. Great idea.

TMF, you do a great job. I appreciate you.

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Author: tpault Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118830 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/28/2008 7:09 PM
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complain about seeing a woman in a bikini because she is 99% naked, which is perfectly acceptable on a public beach, but for some reason isn't acceptable on a public forum

The schools are public but the teachers can't wear bikinis. Shoes and shirt required in Walmart, too.

Besides, this is a private website, open to the public. Would your argument hold up even in a true public webspace? Could you post 100's of pictures of Sports Illustrated models in most any .gov webspaces? Doubtful, those are moderated too.

People going to the beach intend on getting sun and should expect to see others intent on exposing skin to sun. It's healthy. Parents in school expect teachers to be fully dressed. Investor students of any age can expect to go to the internet's most respected and HUMOROUS financial website, TMF, and not see men holding tushy up to their menacing teeth on a regular basis. Looks like this is where MF is trying to draw the line in the sand, and it looks like being the nice guys all along and trying to give the benefit of the doubt, is what some turn around and try to peg as inconsistency. If they've been consistent at any one thing, it's giving almost everyone the benefit of the doubt almost every time. Every once in awhile, someone comes along and pushes, and pushes, and pushes, until MF gives them the benefit of the doubt thousands of times...then finally, when the powers that be say "that's enough!" some have the gaul to turn to them and say "How dare you tell me how to act on your property!"

Paul T.

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Author: ptheland Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118834 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/28/2008 7:19 PM
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I'm really not picking on the poster you used as an example, but it's interesting to note that a significant number of the posts you found have now been deleted.

I wonder of this poster has been given a temporary suspension as well for his/her frequent violations of the posting rules.

--Peter

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Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118837 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/28/2008 7:30 PM
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I think what frustrates a lot of people here is that TMF sets "the rules" and things THEY find vuglar, obscene and whatever other words used in the schpeal emailed to poster who gets FA'd, is a gray area because each individual person on earth has their own set of standards as to what they find vulgar. I told jokes far worse than the obscene one's FA'd here when I was 10 years old but I'm sure there are others who are still pure and untouched at 35 so exactly how does one perceive what is acceptable or unacceptable? And it does seem to vary unrealistically from fool to fool. I've had jokes FA's that I've told my mother and my boss and the girls at church so I don't understand why they wouldn't be acceptable here.

Unfortunitely, now all were left with are dumb blonde jokes and the "find out if your cool test" jokes and frankly, the 6 year old I'm babysitting at this moment even found that one too lame to waste her time on.

Pictures of naked chicks, yeah I can understand that. The F word, yeah I can understand that too but most of the time, a post is pulled because one uptight fool, FA'd it and the needs of the few or the one outweigh the needs of the many (Spock would shake his head at this) so in reality, a few people are controlling what many are seeing. That's not America, or the one I live in anyway.


What gripes me is that I personally have FA'd quite a few posts containing direct insults to other posters here on HURL, several of them targeting AveragJoe. Those posts are still here, no problem. Their posters are still here, although not very often because they rarely showed up here for any reason other than to insult us for making the "best of" list.

Personally I am of the opinion that I know precisely what post got AJ sent to the thinking chair (although I have not officially been told and don't expect to be - and the post I suspect, are gone). And, assuming I'm correct, I think he deserved it. On the other hand, so do several of the people, arguably including at least one TMF employee, who've been celebrating his absence. Further, if the post-pulling and suspensions weren't so blatantly one-sided, I suspect AJ might have come back.

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Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118842 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/28/2008 7:54 PM
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May I propose a simple solution to this dilemma?

In many cases, the deletion of an inappropriate post is somewhat questionable - a "judgment call", if you will. I will give you that. BUT, the current system in effect allows anonymous posters to make that decision by simply "pushing a button" anonymously!

My simple solution, which may have complications, is to simply list those people who recommended that the post be deleted (FA'd). For example, simply state that

"This post has been deleted based on the judgment of The Motley Fool following having received a Fool Alert from [Fool Name] or [Fool Names]."


I like this, but I would add that TMF should either

(a) stop using the term "community standards", or
(b) let THE COMMUNITY have some input. A post which has >50 recs and <5 complaints does not appear to violate THE COMMUNITY'S community standards.

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Author: MadCapitalist Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118845 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/28/2008 8:13 PM
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complain about seeing a woman in a bikini because she is 99% naked, which is perfectly acceptable on a public beach, but for some reason isn't acceptable on a public forum

The schools are public but the teachers can't wear bikinis. Shoes and shirt required in Walmart, too.


The difference is that no one is exposed to aj's pics unless they choose to be exposed to it, a point that seems to be lost on you.

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Author: CrestlineKathy Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118856 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/28/2008 10:38 PM
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<<Further, if the post-pulling and suspensions weren't so blatantly one-sided, I suspect AJ might have come back.
>>

I believe that is THE most accurate statement made here in the past 2 weeks!

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Author: CrestlineKathy Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118857 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/28/2008 10:39 PM
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<<let THE COMMUNITY have some input. A post which has >50 recs and <5 complaints does not appear to violate THE COMMUNITY'S community standards.
>>

Amen!!!!!!!!

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Author: jwiest Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118861 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/28/2008 11:46 PM
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Same goes for those who want to see breasts whilst pretending to their family that they're not interested in it.

That's what kills me. Most of AJ's supporters remind me of Larry "Wide-stance" Craig. Values? LOL. They can't quite get up the nerve to go to a porn site, so they come here.

"What are you doing, honey?"

"Just getting some investment advice, dear..."

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Author: notablelaggard Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118863 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/29/2008 12:39 AM
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But WAIT a minute!

I see from your Pofile that your

"Favorite Sport or Team"

is the Juggie Wrestlers!!!!

PURE T & A IF THERE EVER WAS SUCH A THING!!!




Aha! But THEN I see at the bottom that your

Personal Quote

is all about irony ...

so.. ok .. maybe it all makes sense.



nl

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Author: notablelaggard Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118864 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/29/2008 12:42 AM
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...Same goes for those who want to see breasts...


link please?

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Author: JannyGruenig Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118866 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/29/2008 3:29 AM
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It's somewhat absurd that anyone would argue with the hosts, as to what the rules are.

I don't know how it is with most of you, but i can keep up with reading posts on 6/7 boards each day...so why can't the admins?

Are there not enough admins to give just each admin 2/3 boards?
Why is there a need for a "Fool Alert". If the admins know the best what the fool's rules are. Let them read their 2/3 boards each day and delete the messages that are inappropriate and aren't following their rules.

Don't count on me to become admin though...i don't intend to work without panties. (one of the "freedoms" a TMF admin has.) Isn't that curious? That a site so fixed on doing things right, familyfriendly etc...proposes it's coworkers to work without panties? Funny

Out of the Fool:

"We spend our days puncturing pretensions. So it follows that our Alexandria, Virginia HQ is an unpretentious place to work. No suits. No neckties, no panties."

http://www.fool.com/jobs/workplace/workplace01.htm

Janny

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Author: SEA99 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118867 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/29/2008 3:31 AM
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This thread 91 messages (and probably counting). I suggest:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdaM8mxEBtY&feature=related

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Author: tpault Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118870 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/29/2008 6:03 AM
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I see from your Pofile that your

"Favorite Sport or Team"

is the Juggie Wrestlers!!!!

PURE T & A IF THERE EVER WAS SUCH A THING!!!


Oh I don't have anything against T&A. Believe it or not, I have even seen a Penthouse magazine before.

But when I come to Motley Fool I don't expect the pages & links here to bring me to fruition, least I hope they don't.

Paul T.

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Author: tpault Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118873 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/29/2008 6:12 AM
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The difference is that no one is exposed to aj's pics unless they choose to be exposed to it, a point that seems to be lost on you.

My dear, insanely mad hatter capitalist...

There's a thing called reasonable expectation. Judges use it a lot. When someone walks into a McDonalds, they have a right to a reasonable expectation not to walk into a striptease act, tacitly approved by management. If they do walk into a striptease act, the old & tired argument that the customer "chose" to walk into a striptease act, holds no validity.

Children and adults alike have a reasonable expectation to come to this fine community that Tom & Dave Gardner built, and see & read mature, relatively surf-safe content. You're argument could be used to support a statement that Dave & Tom gardner, wittingly or not, has built a website in which internet users have a reasonable expectation to see erotica and sexually explicit photos.

I'm sorry, you must consider you're staunch stand as being mitigable due to other considerations beyond you're own expectations.

Paul T.

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Author: JannyGruenig Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118876 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/29/2008 6:18 AM
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Janny he needs more than help. He needs to be reported to MF. That's the kind of posts that the Fools let go while FA'ing others.

BTW. He probably wouldn't know what to do with a woman if he had one.



His post only shows what a highly moral person he pretends to be.

Janny

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Author: OleDocJ Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118880 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/29/2008 7:00 AM
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"This post has been deleted based on the judgment of The Motley Fool following having received a Fool Alert from [Fool Name] or [Fool Names]."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yea, because the only thing more entertaining than watching a bunch of crybabies whine about TMF (while continuing to use their website of course) would be to turn every FA into a flame war. Great idea.


Zeige, you argue my point well! If an FA'er were subject to a "flame war", would he/she not think twice before hitting the FA button? If he/she thinks twice, perhaps a more rational choice would be made.

I, personally, would have no problem with attaching my name to an FA; I would only do it (FA a post) if I felt that a poster had intentionally and blatantly violated the Fool Rules or if the post was "incivil" to such an extent that I would personally take responsibility for FA'ing it.

Let's not give in to the Orwellian 1984 portrayal of society in which neighbors and friends anonymously rat out their own neighbors, friends, and family members! Rather, let us uphold the principle defined in our nation's Bill of Rights that an accused is entitled to face his accuser publicly.

The Motley Fool has the right to make the Rules and to enforce the Rules on their site. However, they also have a responsibility to society to do that in a way that is consistent with the rules of our society in general.

Being banned from posting on this site is in no way like being thrown into jail for 3 days, but, consider this, how would you like to be thrown into jail for 3 days without ever knowing who 'fingered' you for the violation?

I'm not asking that the Motley Fool not delete inappropriate posts. I think they should! All I am asking is that the accuser back up his/her actions publicly.

By the way, the "Witness Protection Program" and "Flame War" arguments are specious! Any Fool already has the option of changing their online ID anytime they choose!


OleDoc

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Author: MadCapitalist Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118881 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/29/2008 7:02 AM
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Children and adults alike have a reasonable expectation to come to this fine community that Tom & Dave Gardner built, and see & read mature, relatively surf-safe content.

Give me a break. Seeing a woman in a bikini, even accidentally, is not going to hurt anyone, even a child, although this doesn't seem like a website geared toward children anyway.

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Author: jjbklb Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118890 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/29/2008 8:51 AM
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.." I got some of my best forwards for emails from this board when AJ was here and they weren't all from him but his jokes led to others posting jokes of the same caliber....not anymore so my friends are laughing a lot less now and that's sad.

Kathy .."

That is definetly true for me too.I have decreased my visits to the humor board lately.Just don't seem to get the chuckle quota that I used to get here.

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Author: IndecisiveFool Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118899 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/29/2008 9:56 AM
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I don't know how it is with most of you, but i can keep up with reading posts on 6/7 boards each day...so why can't the admins?

Are there not enough admins to give just each admin 2/3 boards?
Why is there a need for a "Fool Alert". If the admins know the best what the fool's rules are. Let them read their 2/3 boards each day and delete the messages that are inappropriate and aren't following their rules.


AFAIK, there are two main admins on these boards - Twitty and Aruba. There could be a few others. There are hundreds of boards here and probably hundreds to thousands of posts per day. The admins couldn't possibly be expected to read every message that is posted.

IF

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Author: CarlHungus Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118904 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/29/2008 10:39 AM
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Look at these posts from CarlHungus that I quickly found by just scanning his most recommended posts.

---

Jealous?

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Author: MadCapitalist Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118906 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/29/2008 10:44 AM
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Look at these posts from CarlHungus that I quickly found by just scanning his most recommended posts.

---

Jealous?


Hardly.

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Author: CarlHungus Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118907 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/29/2008 10:44 AM
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mmmmmmmmmmmm, yes. Let me bask in your jealousy.

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Author: MadCapitalist Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118909 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/29/2008 10:46 AM
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mmmmmmmmmmmm, yes. Let me bask in your jealousy.

I could never be jealous of someone like you, but if it brings you pleasure to think it, then bask away.

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Author: CarlHungus Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118911 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/29/2008 10:51 AM
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mmmmmmmmmmmm, yes. Let me bask in your jealousy

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Author: tpault Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118932 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/29/2008 5:33 PM
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You are just sick...get help

I apologize. I'm glad the post got deleted. It was all just meant in humor. Poor humor perhaps, but harmless nonetheless.

You gotta tell me though...you wouldn't have reported it yourself but then cut and pasted what you thought was the most offending part, would you? Now that would be just sick and wrong.

Again, my apologies. I'm glad to see Motley Fool is being discerning & equitable and using their own good judgement in deleting posts. Perhaps they deleted that one without it even being FA'd by anyone.

Goes to show you, if you push the limits in here, you'll be caught. I for one wouldn't want it any other way.

Paul T.

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Author: jj307 One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118952 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/29/2008 10:24 PM
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you can also bask in the fact that you have now made it to my ignored list,

I invite others to join me in this very rewarding ritual of removing some of the petty irritants from our lives

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Author: tpault Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118967 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/30/2008 5:56 AM
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His post only shows what a highly moral person he pretends to be

Please advise of what immorality you've witnessed, so that he may better improve. Or, don't, which would be a tacit admission that the charge is not true.

Paul T.

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Author: CarlHungus Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 118990 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 1/30/2008 1:09 PM
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you can also bask in the fact that you have now made it to my ignored list,

---

You say this as if I know and/or care who you are.

-CH

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Author: BlueGrits Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 119215 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 2/4/2008 12:06 AM
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That is amazing that the baby sitter got pulled - this place is turning into a bleeding heart liberal, PC and morality extreme place

Wrong.

Turn your wrath towards the overly righteous conservatives who rather than place folks on "ignore" instead believe that their chosen, voluntary issues should instead be inflicted on others whether they wish them or not.

BG

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Author: BlueGrits Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 119216 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 2/4/2008 12:12 AM
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Suddenly we are surrounded by a bunch of PC, liberal, socialist weenies (and to be fair, a few fringe religious nuts as well).

*sigh*

Haven't yet seen anyone of a hardcore left bent who has complained; perhaps you're projecting?


BG

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Author: BlueGrits Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 119217 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 2/4/2008 12:17 AM
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Could anyone here with a white collar office job post those kinds of pics in their office or cubicle?

No, because that would be use of company assets for non-company use and a grounds for termination.

See -- wasn't that simple?


BG

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Author: BlueGrits Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 119218 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 2/4/2008 12:28 AM
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techie23 wrote (post 119217):

Did you miss the post where he descibed how he abused both his wife and daughter?

I have to believe that if anyone truly believed a spouse and child were being abused, then failure to report it would seem to imply the person witnessing the event was amoral, immoral, just plain laze, or some combination.

Please enlighten us as to what you personally did.

BG

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Author: techie23 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 119262 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 2/4/2008 3:56 PM
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I have to believe that if anyone truly believed a spouse and child were being abused, then failure to report it would seem to imply the person witnessing the event was amoral, immoral, just plain laze, or some combination.

Please enlighten us as to what you personally did.

BG


Don't you just love someone who comes late to the party, who has no idea what's going on, then preaches about what should have been done? Let me help you get a clue, this is an anonymous message board. Should I have called the national social services hotline and let them know aboutt jiml8's post on the Motley Fool?

OJ:

Blue Grits

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Author: CrestlineKathy Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 119313 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 2/4/2008 10:05 PM
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<<I have to believe that if anyone truly believed a spouse and child were being abused, then failure to report it would seem to imply the person witnessing the event was amoral, immoral, just plain laze, or some combination.

Please enlighten us as to what you personally did.

BG

Don't you just love someone who comes late to the party, who has no idea what's going on, then preaches about what should have been done? Let me help you get a clue, this is an anonymous message board. Should I have called the national social services hotline and let them know aboutt jiml8's post on the Motley Fool?

>>

Actually it was reported...to TMF...who proceeded to not only remove the posts but removed the entire board so if anyone should have reported it to the authorities, it was TMF. With the evidence removed, AJ or anyone would have had no leg to stand on. I put this person on ignore who now only seems to post on here whenever AJ is mentioned. Creeps me out.

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Author: JannyGruenig Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 119321 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 2/5/2008 3:22 AM
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Let me help you get a clue, this is an anonymous message board. Should I have called the national social services hotline and let them know aboutt jiml8's post on the Motley Fool?


This remembers me of an article i read last year. (couldn't find it anymore)
A guy had been complaining about his difficult life in a chatroom. People just chatted on and after some days he hang himself on cam...before the whole chatroom! (well...at least before those who had his cam on)

Would anyone have been able to see that coming and would you have known who to contact? I don't know.

Janny

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Author: dond261 One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 119729 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 2/12/2008 7:44 PM
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I must take exception with your statement "Bush is the worst President in the history of the US"

I've lived through twothat were far worse;Jimmy Carter and William J Clinton. Both made Bush look super by comparison.

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Author: dond261 One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 119737 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 2/12/2008 8:39 PM
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Where can I get some of that stuff you have been smoking? It must be dynamite.

Best joke nomination: "Hillary would make a great president."

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Author: jj307 One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 119738 of 165934
Subject: Re: Email Message from Aj Date: 2/12/2008 9:07 PM
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Hi dond261,

I see that you are a new contributer so I wanted to welcome you and also make sure that you know that this is the board for tired old jokes. there is a wonderful place called PA where people amuse themselves by endlessly arguing about things like who is the best and worst president. I'm sure they would love your insights in Bush, Carter, and Clinton.
-Jeff

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