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Author: decath Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 749362  
Subject: Epi-Genetics - Not a Slave To Your Genetics Date: 9/20/2011 10:09 AM
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http://www.maximizedliving.com/Home/MaximizedLivingBlog/tabi...


Your health is not determined by your genes or your circumstances. It is determined by your CHOICES. One of the hottest fields in science right now is called Epi-Genetics. It means that the environment in your body that comes from your lifestyle choices is what determines whether or not your genes get “switched on” for better or worse. In other words, if you have “bad” genes that cause cancer, you can keep them from being activated to a large extent by how you treat your body. That’s what this study is all about! So, you’re not a victim of bad genes or bad luck. You may be a victim of poor choices, but you can change that.

You don’t have to get cancer because your parents had it. You don’t have to get heart disease because of “bad genes.” You are in control of your future, again, for better or worse. Despite what drug companies commercials say, you are not broken. You are not flawed. You are not weak. You are an overcomer, but you have to make the right CHOICES, and remember, not making a choice is a choice.


Pretty exciting if you ask me. No more excuses people! <g>

decath
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Author: ariechert Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 585615 of 749362
Subject: Re: Epi-Genetics - Not a Slave To Your Genetics Date: 9/20/2011 10:52 AM
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"You are in control of your future, again, for better or worse. Despite what drug companies commercials say, you are not broken. You are not flawed. You are not weak. You are an overcomer, but you have to make the right CHOICES, and remember, not making a choice is a choice.

Pretty exciting if you ask me. No more excuses people! <g>" - decath

---------------------------------

Decath, what controls your choices? Your brain! What controls your brain? The biochemistry and hormones which are products of your genes. How are our thoughts, emotions, feelings, decisions, desires, that voice inside your head made? Where do they come from? How are they generated?

The decisions your make in life, the way you think, and how your brain works is under the control of brain biochemistry. There is no "YOU" that is separate and apart from your physical body. There is no little man inside your head that is separate and independent of your brain.

The education of the soul is too important to leave it up to chance.

Artie

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Author: ariechert Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 585618 of 749362
Subject: Re: Epi-Genetics - Not a Slave To Your Genetics Date: 9/20/2011 10:57 AM
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"Pretty exciting if you ask me. No more excuses people! <g>" decath


Hey decath, why am I different than you? Why don't we think exactly alike and make the exact same decisions for our life? What makes me different than you?

If that voice inside our head, the way we think, is not influenced by our genetics and biochemistry then why don't we all think exactly alike and make the same rational and right choices in life? Why don't we all turn out to be perfectly rational conservative intelligent people instead of being all over the board in our decision making?

Artie

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Author: ariechert Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 585632 of 749362
Subject: Re: Epi-Genetics - Not a Slave To Your Genetics Date: 9/20/2011 12:39 PM
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"And that led them to a surprising conclusion: fat people who lost large amounts of weight might look like someone who was never fat, but they were very different. In fact, by every metabolic measurement, they seemed like people who were starving."

excerpt from article...

Genes Take Charge, and Diets Fall by the Wayside
by Gina Kolkata

"The Rockefeller subjects also had a psychiatric syndrome, called semi-starvation neurosis, which had been noticed before in people of normal weight who had been starved. They dreamed of food, they fantasized about food or about breaking their diet. They were anxious and depressed; some had thoughts of suicide. They secreted food in their rooms."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/08/health/08fat.html?pagewant...


If you have never been there you can't understand.

ARt

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Author: decath Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 585677 of 749362
Subject: Re: Epi-Genetics - Not a Slave To Your Genetics Date: 9/20/2011 2:33 PM
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Art
If that voice inside our head, the way we think, is not influenced by our genetics and biochemistry then why don't we all think exactly alike and make the same rational and right choices in life? Why don't we all turn out to be perfectly rational conservative intelligent people instead of being all over the board in our decision making?



Many differing reasons. Mostly environmently. Kids who grow up in family's that overeat, eat junk food and park in front of the tv tend to be that way when they become adults. Go figure.

decath

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Author: decath Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 585679 of 749362
Subject: Re: Epi-Genetics - Not a Slave To Your Genetics Date: 9/20/2011 2:47 PM
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If you have never been there you can't understand.

ARt


So since I can't understand, I have no say in the matter? End of discussion? Kind of reminds me of blacks who tell whites they have no say in what constitutes racism because they are honkies.

Art, I gain weight just like everybody else. After college football and and post decathlon, I took a year to recover from a pole-vaulting injury. I concentrated on finishing my CSCI degree and get my career going. It was plan 'B' if I never got on the cover of Wheaties. <g>

Anyway, I worked all day and went to school at night. No exercising but I still ate like the Division I collegiate tight-end I used to be. I went from a lean 205-210 lbs (my decathlon training weight) to 240 lbs and got pudgy as my muscle mass decreased.

I did not like how I looked or how I fealt. Soon afterwards, I started my journey to educate myself nutritionally and lost the weight.

It was a personal choice. I decided to improve myself and stay that way. There a thousands of former obese people that have done the same and have a new lease on life. They are now lean, healthy, active and no longer have life threatening diseases caused by obesity.

decath

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Author: MadCapitalist Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 585680 of 749362
Subject: Re: Epi-Genetics - Not a Slave To Your Genetics Date: 9/20/2011 2:47 PM
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If that voice inside our head, the way we think, is not influenced by our genetics and biochemistry then why don't we all think exactly alike and make the same rational and right choices in life? Why don't we all turn out to be perfectly rational conservative intelligent people instead of being all over the board in our decision making?

Artie


Did anyone say that the way we think is not influenced by our genetics and biochemistry? Of course not. It's a strawman.

The point is that the phenotypic expression of our genes is not set in stone, something that you would acknowledge if you weren't so dead-set on your fatalistic worldview, which I think is motivated purely by a lack of desire for the viewpoint that we are responsible for our own lives.

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Author: ariechert Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 585689 of 749362
Subject: Re: Epi-Genetics - Not a Slave To Your Genetics Date: 9/20/2011 4:22 PM
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"Many differing reasons. Mostly environmently. Kids who grow up in family's that overeat, eat junk food and park in front of the tv tend to be that way when they become adults. Go figure." - decath


Horse manure. My mom had 6 kids. 3 overweight, 3 thin. My sister Linda has two daughters, one fat and one thin. Ashely and Wynonna Judd come to mind - same mother, same food, same environment - one daughter is big and heavy and the other is thin.

Some people can maintain their weight rather effortlessly with very little pain and others can't seem to control their eating or weight regardless of how much they are taught about food.

There is something else going on here. Something very deep and complex that comes from deep within the person and it has to do with how they are hard wired. DNA, biochemistry, hormones, neurons, synapses, etc.

Art

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Author: ariechert Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 585690 of 749362
Subject: Re: Epi-Genetics - Not a Slave To Your Genetics Date: 9/20/2011 4:27 PM
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"Art, I gain weight just like everybody else. After college football and and post decathlon, I took a year to recover from a pole-vaulting injury. I concentrated on finishing my CSCI degree and get my career going. It was plan 'B' if I never got on the cover of Wheaties." <g> - decath
---------------

Why don't you read the article?

"It began with studies that were the inspiration of Dr. Ethan Sims at the University of Vermont, who asked what would happen if thin people who had never had a weight problem deliberately got fat.

His subjects were prisoners at a nearby state prison who volunteered to gain weight. With great difficulty, they succeeded, increasing their weight by 20 percent to 25 percent. But it took them four to six months, eating as much as they could every day. Some consumed 10,000 calories a day, an amount so incredible that it would be hard to believe, were it not for the fact that there were attendants present at each meal who dutifully recorded everything the men ate.

Once the men were fat, their metabolisms increased by 50 percent. They needed more than 2,700 calories per square meter of their body surface to stay fat but needed just 1,800 calories per square meter to maintain their normal weight.

When the study ended, the prisoners had no trouble losing weight. Within months, they were back to normal and effortlessly stayed there."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/08/health/08fat.html?pagewant...

Everything you think you know about fat people is wrong.

Art

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Author: ariechert Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 585693 of 749362
Subject: Re: Epi-Genetics - Not a Slave To Your Genetics Date: 9/20/2011 4:34 PM
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It was 1959. Jules Hirsch, a research physician at Rockefeller University, had gotten curious about weight loss in the obese. He was about to start a simple experiment that would change forever the way scientists think about fat.

Jules Hirsch, a research physician at Rockefeller University, conducted a simple but groundbreaking experiment on obesity nearly 50 years ago, changing the way scientists think about fat.

Obese people, he knew, had huge fat cells, stuffed with glistening yellow fat. What happened to those cells when people lost weight, he wondered. Did they shrink or did they go away? He decided to find out.

It seemed straightforward. Dr. Hirsch found eight people who had been fat since childhood or adolescence and who agreed to live at the Rockefeller University Hospital for eight months while scientists would control their diets, make them lose weight and then examine their fat cells.

The study was rigorous and demanding. It began with an agonizing four weeks of a maintenance diet that assessed the subjects’ metabolism and caloric needs. Then the diet began. The only food permitted was a liquid formula providing 600 calories a day, a regimen that guaranteed they would lose weight. Finally, the subjects spent another four weeks on a diet that maintained them at their new weights, 100 pounds lower than their initial weights, on average.

Dr. Hirsch answered his original question — the subjects’ fat cells had shrunk and were now normal in size. And everyone, including Dr. Hirsch, assumed that the subjects would leave the hospital permanently thinner.

That did not happen. Instead, Dr. Hirsch says, “they all regained.” He was horrified. The study subjects certainly wanted to be thin, so what went wrong? Maybe, he thought, they had some deep-seated psychological need to be fat.

So Dr. Hirsch and his colleagues, including Dr. Rudolph L. Leibel, who is now at Columbia University, repeated the experiment and repeated it again. Every time the result was the same. The weight, so painstakingly lost, came right back. But since this was a research study, the investigators were also measuring metabolic changes, psychiatric conditions, body temperature and pulse. And that led them to a surprising conclusion: fat people who lost large amounts of weight might look like someone who was never fat, but they were very different. In fact, by every metabolic measurement, they seemed like people who were starving.

Before the diet began, the fat subjects’ metabolism was normal — the number of calories burned per square meter of body surface was no different from that of people who had never been fat. But when they lost weight, they were burning as much as 24 percent fewer calories per square meter of their surface area than the calories consumed by those who were naturally thin.

The Rockefeller subjects also had a psychiatric syndrome, called semi-starvation neurosis, which had been noticed before in people of normal weight who had been starved. They dreamed of food, they fantasized about food or about breaking their diet. They were anxious and depressed; some had thoughts of suicide. They secreted food in their rooms. And they binged.

The Rockefeller researchers explained their observations in one of their papers: “It is entirely possible that weight reduction, instead of resulting in a normal state for obese patients, results in an abnormal state resembling that of starved nonobese individuals.”

Eventually, more than 50 people lived at the hospital and lost weight, and every one had physical and psychological signs of starvation. There were a very few who did not get fat again, but they made staying thin their life’s work, becoming Weight Watchers lecturers, for example, and, always, counting calories and maintaining themselves in a permanent state of starvation.

“Did those who stayed thin simply have more willpower?” Dr. Hirsch asked. “In a funny way, they did.”

One way to interpret Dr. Hirsch and Dr. Leibel’s studies would be to propose that once a person got fat, the body would adjust, making it hopeless to lose weight and keep it off. The issue was important, because if getting fat was the problem, there might be a solution to the obesity epidemic: convince people that any weight gain was a step toward an irreversible condition that they most definitely did not want to have.

But another group of studies showed that that hypothesis, too, was wrong.

It began with studies that were the inspiration of Dr. Ethan Sims at the University of Vermont, who asked what would happen if thin people who had never had a weight problem deliberately got fat.

His subjects were prisoners at a nearby state prison who volunteered to gain weight. With great difficulty, they succeeded, increasing their weight by 20 percent to 25 percent. But it took them four to six months, eating as much as they could every day. Some consumed 10,000 calories a day, an amount so incredible that it would be hard to believe, were it not for the fact that there were attendants present at each meal who dutifully recorded everything the men ate.

Once the men were fat, their metabolisms increased by 50 percent. They needed more than 2,700 calories per square meter of their body surface to stay fat but needed just 1,800 calories per square meter to maintain their normal weight.

When the study ended, the prisoners had no trouble losing weight. Within months, they were back to normal and effortlessly stayed there.

The implications were clear. There is a reason that fat people cannot stay thin after they diet and that thin people cannot stay fat when they force themselves to gain weight. The body’s metabolism speeds up or slows down to keep weight within a narrow range. Gain weight and the metabolism can as much as double; lose weight and it can slow to half its original speed.

That, of course, was contrary to what every scientist had thought, and Dr. Sims knew it, as did Dr. Hirsch.

The message never really got out to the nation’s dieters, but a few research scientists were intrigued and asked the next question about body weight: Is body weight inherited, or is obesity more of an inadvertent, almost unconscious response to a society where food is cheap, abundant and tempting? An extra 100 calories a day will pile on 10 pounds in a year, public health messages often say. In five years, that is 50 pounds.

The assumption was that environment determined weight, but Dr. Albert Stunkard of the University of Pennsylvania wondered if that was true and, if so, to what extent. It was the early 1980s, long before obesity became what one social scientist called a moral panic, but a time when those questions of nature versus nurture were very much on Dr. Stunkard’s mind.

He found the perfect tool for investigating the nature-nurture question — a Danish registry of adoptees developed to understand whether schizophrenia was inherited. It included meticulous medical records of every Danish adoption between 1927 and 1947, including the names of the adoptees’ biological parents, and the heights and weights of the adoptees, their biological parents and their adoptive parents.

Dr. Stunkard ended up with 540 adults whose average age was 40. They had been adopted when they were very young — 55 percent had been adopted in the first month of life and 90 percent were adopted in the first year of life. His conclusions, published in The New England Journal of Medicine in 1986, were unequivocal. The adoptees were as fat as their biological parents, and how fat they were had no relation to how fat their adoptive parents were.

The scientists summarized it in their paper: “The two major findings of this study were that there was a clear relation between the body-mass index of biologic parents and the weight class of adoptees, suggesting that genetic influences are important determinants of body fatness; and that there was no relation between the body-mass index of adoptive parents and the weight class of adoptees, suggesting that childhood family environment alone has little or no effect.”

In other words, being fat was an inherited condition.

Dr. Stunkard also pointed out the implications: “Current efforts to prevent obesity are directed toward all children (and their parents) almost indiscriminately. Yet if family environment alone has no role in obesity, efforts now directed toward persons with little genetic risk of the disorder could be refocused on the smaller number who are more vulnerable. Such persons can already be identified with some assurance: 80 percent of the offspring of two obese parents become obese, as compared with no more than 14 percent of the offspring of two parents of normal weight.”

A few years later, in 1990, Dr. Stunkard published another study in The New England Journal of Medicine, using another classic method of geneticists: investigating twins. This time, he used the Swedish Twin Registry, studying its 93 pairs of identical twins who were reared apart, 154 pairs of identical twins who were reared together, 218 pairs of fraternal twins who were reared apart, and 208 pairs of fraternal twins who were reared together.

The identical twins had nearly identical body mass indexes, whether they had been reared apart or together. There was more variation in the body mass indexes of the fraternal twins, who, like any siblings, share some, but not all, genes.

The researchers concluded that 70 percent of the variation in peoples’ weights may be accounted for by inheritance, a figure that means that weight is more strongly inherited than nearly any other condition, including mental illness, breast cancer or heart disease.

The results did not mean that people are completely helpless to control their weight, Dr. Stunkard said. But, he said, it did mean that those who tend to be fat will have to constantly battle their genetic inheritance if they want to reach and maintain a significantly lower weight.

The findings also provided evidence for a phenomenon that scientists like Dr. Hirsch and Dr. Leibel were certain was true — each person has a comfortable weight range to which the body gravitates. The range might span 10 or 20 pounds: someone might be able to weigh 120 to 140 pounds without too much effort. Going much above or much below the natural weight range is difficult, however; the body resists by increasing or decreasing the appetite and changing the metabolism to push the weight back to the range it seeks.

The message is so at odds with the popular conception of weight loss — the mantra that all a person has to do is eat less and exercise more — that Dr. Jeffrey Friedman, an obesity researcher at the Rockefeller University, tried to come up with an analogy that would convey what science has found about the powerful biological controls over body weight.

He published it in the journal Science in 2003 and still cites it:

“Those who doubt the power of basic drives, however, might note that although one can hold one’s breath, this conscious act is soon overcome by the compulsion to breathe,” Dr. Friedman wrote. “The feeling of hunger is intense and, if not as potent as the drive to breathe, is probably no less powerful than the drive to drink when one is thirsty. This is the feeling the obese must resist after they have lost a significant amount of weight.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/08/health/08fat.html?pagewant...

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Author: ariechert Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 585694 of 749362
Subject: Re: Epi-Genetics - Not a Slave To Your Genetics Date: 9/20/2011 4:35 PM
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"The identical twins had nearly identical body mass indexes, whether they had been reared apart or together. There was more variation in the body mass indexes of the fraternal twins, who, like any siblings, share some, but not all, genes."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/08/health/08fat.html?pagewant...

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Author: ariechert Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 585696 of 749362
Subject: Re: Epi-Genetics - Not a Slave To Your Genetics Date: 9/20/2011 4:37 PM
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“Those who doubt the power of basic drives, however, might note that although one can hold one’s breath, this conscious act is soon overcome by the compulsion to breathe,” Dr. Friedman wrote. “The feeling of hunger is intense and, if not as potent as the drive to breathe, is probably no less powerful than the drive to drink when one is thirsty. This is the feeling the obese must resist after they have lost a significant amount of weight.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/08/health/08fat.html?pagewant...

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Author: decath Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 585853 of 749362
Subject: Re: Epi-Genetics - Not a Slave To Your Genetics Date: 9/21/2011 10:57 AM
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There is something else going on here. Something very deep and complex that comes from deep within the person and it has to do with how they are hard wired. DNA, biochemistry, hormones, neurons, synapses, etc.

Art


I read the article you posted and I certainly don't discount that genetics can presuppose someone towards liking 'bad' foods more than 'good' foods, thus causing weight gain.

As I stated earlier there are a lot of things that can cause someone to gain weight and keep it on. I believe the main cause is your environment which includes, your upbringing, the crappy foods kids and teens eat as part of their social gatherings, family social gatherings of large quantities of food/adult beverages/sugar drenched deserts and Holiday foods.

For most of us working stiffs, you have a constant influx of bad foods people bring in or the company provides to tempt workers. Donuts and bagels in the morning. Candy dishes everywhere. Lunch buffets. Vending machines filled with refined flour and refined sugar products. It's endless and you have to have major discpline to avoid, regardless of your genes.

Rarely do people bring in fresh fruit or veggies. It's always cake and icecream for BD parties. I just don't do it. And it's actually easy for me. I bring my 'live' foods to work and munch on them. Despite being a chocoholic in my past, you can now put a slice of German Chocolate cake in front of me after not eating for 4 hours and there is no temptation for me.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I've lived in gyms, read numerous books, articles, websites etc.. on health/fitness, probably in the thousands. There are ten's of thousands of testimonies from people that have changed there lifestyles and thus, their health. They don't get sick much and they will live long, prosperous lives without diabetes and cancer. They can stand up and see their feet. They feel good and they don't want to ever go back to being fat and unhealthy.

And no, they don't have a constant starving censation. Once you learn to replace addictive foods with living, whole foods, after a month or so, the temptations go away and you don't need the junk anymore. You discover that the empty feeling in your stomach is not hunger but a natural 'good' feeling because you are eating 'live' foods that pass through your system quickly. You feel light, energetic. You feel good!

Once you get the diet corrected, then you discover you don't have to work out 2 hours a day to look lean.

I work out 15 minutes a day (6 days a week) using the following program www.maxt3.com. It's 15 minutes of intense exercise but with the setup, warmup, exercises and then cool down, I'm done in less than 30 minutes.

decath

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Author: JLC Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 585881 of 749362
Subject: Re: Epi-Genetics - Not a Slave To Your Genetics Date: 9/21/2011 2:22 PM
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Pretty exciting if you ask me.

Yes and no. There is so much we don't know about genes much less gene expression. Heck, Watson and Crick discovered DNA only 50+ years ago and we've only recently been able to make a complete map.

FWIW, I just read an article about how a mother's nutritional status during pregnancy can effect a child's weight/fatness throughout that child's life. Short story, if mother is starving, it turns on fetal genes that make the kid put on weight, period. Like its being told you're being born into a famine period, better store up reserves.

IMHO, its genes and environment and a bit of we don't know what. You'll never see a clydesdale win the Kentucky Derby nor will you see a quarter horse pull the Budweiser Wagon.

JLC

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Author: decath Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 585897 of 749362
Subject: Re: Epi-Genetics - Not a Slave To Your Genetics Date: 9/21/2011 5:25 PM
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JLC
Yes and no. There is so much we don't know about genes much less gene expression. Heck, Watson and Crick discovered DNA only 50+ years ago and we've only recently been able to make a complete map.



Art thinks it's all genetics. But that does not explain the fact that childhood obesity is growing in leaps and bounds. Nobody in America is starving. Well, they may be starving from real food but not from calories.

Watching kids entering and leaving school yards is pretty sad. So many are overweight. Even some athletes have pudgy bellies and thighs.

When I was growing up, there were very few fat kids. Now they are legion. Genetics? Or modern epidemic of fast, cheap and easy sugar loaded, salt loaded junk food.

When I was a kid, a soda was a special treat. Now it's what's for breakfast, lunch, dinner and inbetween snacks.

The overwhelming conclusion is that we are lazy and self-indulgent and it keeps getting worse.

decath

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Author: decath Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 585900 of 749362
Subject: Re: Epi-Genetics - Not a Slave To Your Genetics Date: 9/21/2011 5:41 PM
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The overwhelming conclusion is that we are lazy and self-indulgent and it keeps getting worse.

decath


I forgot to add the growing number of psychological and character problems children have in abundance these days.

You look at a kid that eats sugar cerial in the morning; 2 or 3 sodas throughout the day, candy bars, white flour products for lunch(that turn to sugar during digestion) and then pizza a soda for dinner.

Then they are diagnosed with ADD or ADHD and we scratch our heads and wonder why?

If anybody is interested or has kids with problems like that, google it and you'll find numerious studies and testimonies that link poor diet to childhood behavioral problems.

decath

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Subject: Re: Epi-Genetics - Not a Slave To Your Genetics Date: 9/21/2011 8:07 PM
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The overwhelming conclusion is that we are lazy and self-indulgent and it keeps getting worse.

That I totally agree with.

In the nearly 20 years I've been practicing medicine, I've gone from seeing obese/morbidly obese children at a rate of once a month. Now its almost a daily occurance.

JLC

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Subject: Re: Epi-Genetics - Not a Slave To Your Genetics Date: 9/21/2011 8:45 PM
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The overwhelming conclusion is that we are lazy and self-indulgent and it keeps getting worse.

decath

_________________________________

WARNING: LONG POST

It's not clear how overwhelming a conclusion it is. The jury is still out....way out...with medical science for any definitive conclusions. Research is probably in the early innings here. I realize you're intensely dedicated to your concepts, which is great (because you are living healthy), and I don't think you're wrong, so this message is just to add. Initial research was originally almost non-existent because scientists and researchers wrongly assumed the obvious...that overweight people are overweight because they eat too much and/or don't exercise enough

But the age-old biggest mistake in science is to assume something is true simply because it appears obvious. This mistake is made over and over and over again and is still being made. Just because something is appears obvious, doesn't mean it's true. I can give a multitude of examples, but maybe another time.

To group ALL people who are overweight into one cause-category is not rational or accurate. People are overweight for a variety of reasons. Now....I'm not talking about the subset of obese people that ARE obese because they're lazy and/or overeat. These people are the "poster-children" for obesity naturally, but research is finding that these people ARE only a "subset" of the obese population, and do not account for more than a percentage of the obesity epidemic we have today.

As a physician who has had many years of post-graduate education and ongoing continuing education on human/animal biochemistry-physiology-nutrition, genetics, etc., research on this subject has been a major sideline project for me. The last 5-7 years has produced an explosion of new data...most of which hasn't reached the lay-press or most physicians for that matter. It's even difficult to find through Google searches because a fair amount is unpublished or published in non-high profile journals.

The science of human nutrition and the discovery of numerous alternate metabolic pathways, messenger molecules and other chemicals, and various feed-back loops, as well as new research data about populations and sub-populations of obese has demonstrated that the "lazy-overeater" theory just doesn't completely cut it anymore for a large percentage of obese patients. For one thing, if obesity was simply being lazy and/or overeating, we'd never see skinny or normal-weight individuals that can eat and drink anything they want and never exercise...but there are lots of these types out there.

Newer research is starting to show that a significant percentage of mildly-moderately overweight people don't have diets, caloric intake, or activity levels that differ from their skinny or normal-weight counterparts. The groups are similar in every way except one group gains weight no matter what and the other group doesn't.

There's some thought that this group of overweight people develop and become "stuck" in a chronic starvation mode. Now starvation mode phenomenon is not new. In people who are starved for whatever reason, their metabolic pathways and metabolism changes to capture every calorie and convert and store it in fat cells. In addition, the person's metabolism slows to preserve energy stores of the fat cells. It's obviously a survival mechanism.

Problem is, many of our modern-day fatties appear to be "stuck" in starvation mode and it's metabolic changes despite the presence of adequate food intake.

Normal-weight individuals maintain their weight, it seems by raising (ever so slightly) their metabolism to burn-off any excess calories that may be consumed and also maintain a metabolic pathway that stores excess calories as glucose/glycogen which is easily burned rather than converting such calories to sequestered fat that's difficult to extract from fat cells. The metabolic differences in the two groups exist despite similar diet/activity levels. Both groups consume varying numbers of calories from day-to-day, and have varying levels of physical activities as all humans do.

Much new research is dedicated to figuring out why this large group of obese people are "stuck" in starvation mode". Now, genetics will no doubt play a significant roll. Studies on twin siblings who are raised in separate and quite different environments still show the same tendencies in this regard...so genetics obviously plays a part.

But environmental exposures are also being studied heavily and this is where your approach may have serious value. Studies are underway examining certain estrogen-like chemicals that are in our plastics used for food storage and cooking. Other chemicals such as food-additives, preservatives and chemicals used for processing foods are suspect too. Finally, the wide variety of chemicals that people are exposed to in the air, water, and environment are being look at.

In addition to chemicals, infectious agents like viruses that are known to alter or interfere with metabolism are being looked at.

Also, science has discovered that there are several different types of fat. The fat that we're most familiar with under the skin is less metabolically active, and possibly less dangerous. Visceral fat, fat surrounding and attached to our internal organs and laced throughout the omentum has been shown to be heavily metabolically active...dumping inflammatory molecules such as cytokines into the portal vein that goes directly into the liver and effects metabolism in a big way...chemicals that cause diabetes, atherosclerosis and other diseases.

Lots of research on omental/visceral fat. They discovered the effects of omental fat when after bariatric surgery for obesity, in some patients an incidental omentectomy was performed, removing the omentum along with all that omental adipose tissue. The patients, who were Type II diabetics, experienced normalization of their glucose levels in the first few days after surgery...long before any weight loss occurred. Subsequent studies testing portal vein blood from patients with Type II diabetes and heavy amounts of omental fat reveal high levels of these inflammatory chemicals plus some new as yet undefined compounds. Stay tuned. May be some new treatments coming in the future.

Anyway, the point of this long post is to show that the typically average, overweight adult with/without metabolic syndrome or Type II diabetes is not really living their life any differently than their normal-weighing counterparts in terms of diet/calories/activity. There are plenty of normal-weight adults who eat the typical modern diet, and have poor or no exercise activities. Why don't THEY gain weight????

Your comments about childhood obesity, diet, exercise, sugar, etc. are also reasonable and yet I see and know many, many kids that are normal weight and yet eat the exact same diet as the fat kids, play the same video games and skip physical activity just like the fat kids. So it is not JUST diet/exercise...otherwise ALL kids would be fat....and although sometimes it seems like all kids are fat, they aren't. So there's something else going on.

Your dietary and exercise approach is great and a worthy goal for most people. But if we ultimately find out that chemicals in our food supply or environment, and/or viruses, and/or genetics are playing a significant role in a lot of overweight people, then your approach isn't always going to address that problem. It won't hurt, but it might not help either.

So I think following your approach is excellent and certainly can't hurt, it's probably not going to be the primary solution for many of the obese population. Obesity in our population has made my life as an anesthesiologist much more challenging and it's definitely gotten worse over the last 30 years I've been in medicine.

Mike

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Author: ascenzm Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 585937 of 749362
Subject: Re: Epi-Genetics - Not a Slave To Your Genetics Date: 9/21/2011 9:25 PM
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When I was a kid, a soda was a special treat.

decath


Up here in SW PA what you call a soda, we call pop. Back when I was a kid, pop came in much small sized containers. Like you, I only drank pop on special occasions such as picnics and I drank pop out of small bottles.

Mike

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Author: Fly2Retire Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 585943 of 749362
Subject: Re: Epi-Genetics - Not a Slave To Your Genetics Date: 9/21/2011 11:00 PM
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Would you please describe your diet, foods, etc, Decath?

Thanks!

F2R

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Author: fleg9bo Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 585949 of 749362
Subject: Re: Epi-Genetics - Not a Slave To Your Genetics Date: 9/22/2011 12:57 AM
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Hey do you have any experience with Operation Smile?

We've donated to Smile Train, an organization with a similar focus. We don't have any experience with them other than writing checks.

http://www.smiletrain.org/

--fleg

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Author: TMFHunzi Big red star, 1000 posts Home Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 585950 of 749362
Subject: Re: Epi-Genetics - Not a Slave To Your Genetics Date: 9/22/2011 1:02 AM
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We've donated to Smile Train, an organization with a similar focus. We don't have any experience with them other than writing checks.

http://www.smiletrain.org/

--fleg


Thanks Fleg!

I actually didn't mean to post that! Missed the darned email button!

Always ;-)
Hunzi

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Author: fleg9bo Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 585951 of 749362
Subject: Re: Epi-Genetics - Not a Slave To Your Genetics Date: 9/22/2011 1:03 AM
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I actually didn't mean to post that! Missed the darned email button!

No harm, no foul.

--fleg

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Subject: Re: Epi-Genetics - Not a Slave To Your Genetics Date: 9/22/2011 8:24 AM
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But environmental exposures are also being studied heavily and this is where your approach may have serious value. Studies are underway examining certain estrogen-like chemicals that are in our plastics used for food storage and cooking. Other chemicals such as food-additives, preservatives and chemicals used for processing foods are suspect too. Finally, the wide variety of chemicals that people are exposed to in the air, water, and environment are being look at.

Mike


Years ago plastic food containers were not as common as they are today. Items such as ketchup came in inert glass jars, not plastic jars. In addition there were no microwave ovens. Some alternative medicine providers do not recommend the use of microwave ovens to prepare food. Could the use of plastic containers in microwave ovens cause issues with the food inside the containers?

I walk a lot and live in a urban area where I get to see lots of people. It seems that today obese adults are the norm whereas 45 to 50 years ago when I was very young, obese adults were much less common.

Mike, who was given his sister's microwave oven but has never used it.

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Author: beaconclks Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 585979 of 749362
Subject: Re: Epi-Genetics - Not a Slave To Your Genetics Date: 9/22/2011 9:55 AM
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Years ago plastic food containers were not as common as they are today. Items such as ketchup came in inert glass jars, not plastic jars. In addition there were no microwave ovens. Some alternative medicine providers do not recommend the use of microwave ovens to prepare food. Could the use of plastic containers in microwave ovens cause issues with the food inside the containers?

I walk a lot and live in a urban area where I get to see lots of people. It seems that today obese adults are the norm whereas 45 to 50 years ago when I was very young, obese adults were much less common.

Mike, who was given his sister's microwave oven but has never used it.

____________________________________

Yep, I've also read some articles concerning the effects of microwave cooking on the food we eat, in addition to the effects the microwaves have on the cooking container.

Somewhere in my files I have some articles that contend that microwaving in most plastic dishes or containers cause chemicals in the plastic to leach into the food itself....YUCK!! Though it may not be definitive, to me it's easy enough to only cook in microwave cookware...usually porcelain or stoneware.

The contention that the microwave cooking causes structural molecular changes in our food to render new or degraded chemical changes in the food itself is another area of research. I don't know what to think about that 'cause I don't have enough info. DW and I generally only warm up tea/coffee, though DW does make microwave oatmeal. I have friends that cook almost everything in the microwave and only touch their ovens on Thanksgiving, etc.

But your observations on plastic food containers being ubiquitous are very true. They're everywhere and apparently there are several estrogen-like compounds that, at least in lab animals, cause certain types of obesity or fat deposition. Like you stated, these plastics weren't even around not too many decades ago. Decath's approach, I think, would tend to avoid most of these chemicals.

The coatings on the inside of food cans have been implicated. There are strange chemicals in some coatings of the wax paper inside cereal boxes that supposedly "improve" cereal preservation. Even Clark Griswold's job in the "Vacation" movies was to develop better "food varnishes" to coat and preserve the food (non-osmotic and all). I'm not sure I'd want to eat any chemical Clark Griswold put on my food!! :-)

Mike

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Author: decath Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 585980 of 749362
Subject: Re: Epi-Genetics - Not a Slave To Your Genetics Date: 9/22/2011 9:59 AM
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Your dietary and exercise approach is great and a worthy goal for most people. But if we ultimately find out that chemicals in our food supply or environment, and/or viruses, and/or genetics are playing a significant role in a lot of overweight people, then your approach isn't always going to address that problem. It won't hurt, but it might not help either.

So I think following your approach is excellent and certainly can't hurt, it's probably not going to be the primary solution for many of the obese population. Obesity in our population has made my life as an anesthesiologist much more challenging and it's definitely gotten worse over the last 30 years I've been in medicine.

Mike


Good post Mike.

It's important to understand what may be causing your problem. But the problem with humans is we always take the easy way out and punt instead of going for it.

That's what I advocate to my friends and family. Don't ever accept that you cannot get better. Believe there is a way you can beat whatever problem you have. DO NOT ACCEPT that you always will be fat or unhealthy.

So what has changed in the last 50 years that has contributed to our mass weight gain as a society.

The chemical content in our environment? That's a major suspect if you ask me. I don't go into it much on RECF but I'm also an advocate of doing everything you can to limit chemical exposure. You all think I'm weird enough but let's suffice it to say we don't use normal cleaning, cooking substances/equipment in decath's household. We do everything we can think of to avoid toxic introductions into our bodies.

Again, I certainly don't disregard the impact of genes on giving people a head start or a hindrance to life. I have 3 kids. All 3 are different. One is lactose intollerant like me. If DS and I eat dairy, we are sickly and lethargetic. Plain misery in fact. You can't talk either one of us into drinking a glass of milk (whole or 2%) because we'll feel lousy for 12 hours.

DD #1 can't eat refined sugar or she goes blitso. We were able to keep her from simple carbs and manmade sugar substances until her teens when she slowly introduced them back into her diet despite our objections. It caused behavioral problems and ultimately IMHO, her teen rebellion that laid a pattern that has almost ruined her life since.

If I were a person that had a wieght/obesity problem, I'd welcome the news that we CAN change our genes instead of the 'fatalistic' punting that Art advocates.

decath

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Author: decath Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 585981 of 749362
Subject: Re: Epi-Genetics - Not a Slave To Your Genetics Date: 9/22/2011 10:01 AM
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Up here in SW PA what you call a soda, we call pop. Back when I was a kid, pop came in much small sized containers. Like you, I only drank pop on special occasions such as picnics and I drank pop out of small bottles.

Mike


In Nebraska where I lived until the age of 8, they call it pop. I visited last weekend and saw 'pop' on the side of a convenience store and it brought back memories.

decath

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Author: decath Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 585982 of 749362
Subject: Re: Epi-Genetics - Not a Slave To Your Genetics Date: 9/22/2011 10:06 AM
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Would you please describe your diet, foods, etc, Decath?

Thanks!

F2R


For the past 19 years, I've been mostly vegan. 85% raw food vegan and 15% cooked.

Breakfast is usely raw fruit or green smoothie (fruit, nuts and greens)
Lunch is vigorous raw salad or green smoothie

Dinner is a vigorous raw salad and some cooked veggie or grain.

We supplement with 3 glasses of barley green powdered drinks per day and 1 or 2 glasses of fresh carrot juice.

However, this week, DW and I decided to experiment with 2 or 3 servings per week of grass fed beef or wild salmon.

decath

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Author: decath Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 585985 of 749362
Subject: Re: Epi-Genetics - Not a Slave To Your Genetics Date: 9/22/2011 10:14 AM
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Mike

Years ago plastic food containers were not as common as they are today. Items such as ketchup came in inert glass jars, not plastic jars. In addition there were no microwave ovens. Some alternative medicine providers do not recommend the use of microwave ovens to prepare food. Could the use of plastic containers in microwave ovens cause issues with the food inside the containers?



We have a microwave but don't use it. We also try to limit the amount of foods that are in plastic containers. But that is an impossible task in our modern society if you buy things from stores.

I don't use normal shampoo, soap, detergents, cleaning products etc..

Unfortunately, we have a swimming pool with the old clorinated filter system. One of my projects is to convert to a salt water system. Clorine is a horribly toxic substance to biological entities.

decath

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Author: decath Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 586000 of 749362
Subject: Re: Epi-Genetics - Not a Slave To Your Genetics Date: 9/22/2011 10:52 AM
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Mike
Anyway, the point of this long post is to show that the typically average, overweight adult with/without metabolic syndrome or Type II diabetes is not really living their life any differently than their normal-weighing counterparts in terms of diet/calories/activity. There are plenty of normal-weight adults who eat the typical modern diet, and have poor or no exercise activities. Why don't THEY gain weight????



On a related note and in a bizarre way, people who gain weight easily should see that as a blessing in disquise.

Sound weird? Let me elaborate.

How many of you heard about the socalled guy/gal that never got sick, was always thin and always ate whatever they wanted and in large quantities? We all know one or more people like that. Since they don't have to worry about gaining weight, they consume large amounts of toxic foods. Then when they die at the age of 55 from cancer or heart disease everyone ponders how it can happen to a skinny looking guy/gal.

Then you have the athlete that believes he/she can eat whatever they want because they workout so much. They may have a lean muscular body, but they still shovel volumes of toxic foods into their body. Yes they burn off the calories, but the toxic portions will come back to haunt them later in life. I was that guy. Jim Fixx was that guy and he died before he turned 40. I would probably be dead now if I continued to eat like I did in my 20's. At a mimimum, I'd be 300 lbs and the only 'sports' I could do would be on the X-Box.

If you believe like I do that toxic foods, toxic water and other toxins from the environment we live in cause and at least contribute to our modern diseases, then being skinny or physically fit cannot or will not insulate us from that.

That's were the 'blessing in disquise' comes in for people that have weight issues from the get go. Usually in their teens when they are self-consious about their appearance, they start regulating their diets. They can learn at an early age to discipline themselves to eat more veggies than the typical child/teen.

They may still be slightly overweight their entire adult lives, but over the course of their lifetimes, they have not consumed nearly the amount of cancer causing toxic food substances that normal Americans do.

If they learn to "change" their genes as the science of Epi-Genetics suggest, they will live a long, quality life without the disease and discomfort that our modern society has wrought upon us.

If you are naturally thin, it may never even occur to you to change. In my case, I was motivated to change my diet because at the age of 30, my old sports injuries were dragging me down. I wanted something better for my life than just watching sports on tv.


decath

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Author: decath Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 586005 of 749362
Subject: Re: Epi-Genetics - Not a Slave To Your Genetics Date: 9/22/2011 11:30 AM
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Would you please describe your diet, foods, etc, Decath?

Thanks!

F2R


Also F2r, I currently avoid foods that have the following in them:

- refined sugar
- refined salt
- refined grains
- dairy
- caffiene
- alcohol

decath

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Author: arrete Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 586010 of 749362
Subject: Re: Epi-Genetics - Not a Slave To Your Genetics Date: 9/22/2011 12:02 PM
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I just went to my economics class, and it fits right in with this discussion. I'll have to write it up later because I have to look up a bunch of stuff. However, the provocative tidbit is that Art may be more right than some other people. And yes, the speaker dwelt very briefly on epi-genetics.

Who says we don't have spirited discussions on RECF that look at all sides of a question.

arrete

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Author: MadCapitalist Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 586013 of 749362
Subject: Re: Epi-Genetics - Not a Slave To Your Genetics Date: 9/22/2011 12:15 PM
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I just went to my economics class, and it fits right in with this discussion. I'll have to write it up later because I have to look up a bunch of stuff. However, the provocative tidbit is that Art may be more right than some other people. And yes, the speaker dwelt very briefly on epi-genetics.

Who says we don't have spirited discussions on RECF that look at all sides of a question.

arrete


What is Art "more right" about?

If it's one thing that is becoming increasingly clear over time, it's that genes aren't just some static blueprint. The way that they express themselves is very dependent on what they are exposed to. In other words, our activities, our nutrition, the chemicals in our environment, etc. actually change the way that our genes function.

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Subject: Re: Epi-Genetics - Not a Slave To Your Genetics Date: 9/22/2011 12:35 PM
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The contention that the microwave cooking causes structural molecular changes in our food to render new or degraded chemical changes in the food itself is another area of research.

Mike


Mike,

That's exactly the issue that the alternative medical people have been concerned with. I have no idea if this is a problem, but for me the prudent action is to not use microwave ovens.

A lot of craft beer is now starting to be canned. The brewers claim that the cans' inside surfaces are being coated with a material that prevents the beer from acquiring a metallic taste while residing inside the can. However what is this compound doing to the beer?

Mike

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Subject: Re: Epi-Genetics - Not a Slave To Your Genetics Date: 9/22/2011 12:38 PM
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In Nebraska where I lived until the age of 8, they call it pop. I visited last weekend and saw 'pop' on the side of a convenience store and it brought back memories.

decath



I think that it's a midwest thing to call soda 'pop'. Pittsburgh can be considered a mid-western because it has more in common with towns like Cleveland and Cincinnati than with a city like Philadelphia.

Mike

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Subject: Re: Epi-Genetics - Not a Slave To Your Genetics Date: 9/22/2011 2:07 PM
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"However, the provocative tidbit is that Art may be more right than some other people. And yes, the speaker dwelt very briefly on epi-genetics. Who says we don't have spirited discussions on RECF that look at all sides of a question." - arrete
------------------------------------------------------------------------


There are machines set up at major Universities that are able to predict the future. Now if a machine can predict the future that sort of says to me that the future all ready exists. What this also says to me is that free will is an illusion which also is congruent with the holographic universe theory. It also fits in with NDEs that say that everything is planned. So all three things + Albert Einstein say the same thing - the future all ready exists which mean that fat people are fat because they are supposed to be fat.

Irritating the hell out of fat bigots so they can experience duality and separation so their souls can learn what it means and how it feels to be separate, unique, individuals.

What it boils down to is.... "the education of the soul is too important to leave up to chance."
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Can This Black Box See Into the Future?

http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/126649/can_this_black_b...

Is This Really Proof That Man Can See The Future?

"Professor Brian Josephson, a Nobel Prize-winning physicist from Cambridge University, says: "So far, the evidence seems compelling. What seems to be happening is that information is coming from the future."

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23395112-is-this-...

Art

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Author: andrew61 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 586104 of 749362
Subject: Re: Epi-Genetics - Not a Slave To Your Genetics Date: 9/22/2011 11:36 PM
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Horse manure. My mom had 6 kids. 3 overweight, 3 thin. My sister Linda has two daughters, one fat and one thin. Ashely and Wynonna Judd come to mind - same mother, same food, same environment - one daughter is big and heavy and the other is thin.


I was just thinking about that the other night when I saw Chaz Bono (formerly Chastity Bono) on TV. Parents Sonny and Cher were both thin (at least they were all the times I saw them), but Chaz is heavy. I was wondering to myself how that could be?

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Subject: Re: Epi-Genetics - Not a Slave To Your Genetics Date: 9/22/2011 11:51 PM
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Watching kids entering and leaving school yards is pretty sad. So many are overweight. Even some athletes have pudgy bellies and thighs.

When I was growing up, there were very few fat kids. Now they are legion. Genetics? Or modern epidemic of fast, cheap and easy sugar loaded, salt loaded junk food.



When I was growing up (and I recall that decath and I are about the same age), there was just one fat kid in gym class... and they all made fun of him because he couldn't run.

Nowadays I can't believe how many obese kids I see. I think it's an overabundance of cheap junk food coupled with lack of physical activity.

-andrew, who was abnormally skinny growing up

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Subject: Re: Epi-Genetics - Not a Slave To Your Genetics Date: 9/23/2011 12:01 AM
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Up here in SW PA what you call a soda, we call pop. Back when I was a kid, pop came in much small sized containers. Like you, I only drank pop on special occasions such as picnics and I drank pop out of small bottles.

Mike


In Nebraska where I lived until the age of 8, they call it pop. I visited last weekend and saw 'pop' on the side of a convenience store and it brought back memories.

decath



In both northeast Ohio and northeast Illinois where I've lived, it was called "pop" also.

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Subject: Re: Epi-Genetics - Not a Slave To Your Genetics Date: 9/23/2011 12:10 AM
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On a related note and in a bizarre way, people who gain weight easily should see that as a blessing in disquise.

Sound weird? Let me elaborate.

How many of you heard about the socalled guy/gal that never got sick, was always thin and always ate whatever they wanted and in large quantities? We all know one or more people like that. Since they don't have to worry about gaining weight, they consume large amounts of toxic foods. Then when they die at the age of 55 from cancer or heart disease everyone ponders how it can happen to a skinny looking guy/gal.

Then you have the athlete that believes he/she can eat whatever they want because they workout so much. They may have a lean muscular body, but they still shovel volumes of toxic foods into their body. Yes they burn off the calories, but the toxic portions will come back to haunt them later in life. I was that guy. Jim Fixx was that guy and he died before he turned 40. I would probably be dead now if I continued to eat like I did in my 20's. At a mimimum, I'd be 300 lbs and the only 'sports' I could do would be on the X-Box.

If you believe like I do that toxic foods, toxic water and other toxins from the environment we live in cause and at least contribute to our modern diseases, then being skinny or physically fit cannot or will not insulate us from that.

That's were the 'blessing in disquise' comes in for people that have weight issues from the get go. Usually in their teens when they are self-consious about their appearance, they start regulating their diets. They can learn at an early age to discipline themselves to eat more veggies than the typical child/teen.

They may still be slightly overweight their entire adult lives, but over the course of their lifetimes, they have not consumed nearly the amount of cancer causing toxic food substances that normal Americans do.

If they learn to "change" their genes as the science of Epi-Genetics suggest, they will live a long, quality life without the disease and discomfort that our modern society has wrought upon us.

If you are naturally thin, it may never even occur to you to change. In my case, I was motivated to change my diet because at the age of 30, my old sports injuries were dragging me down. I wanted something better for my life than just watching sports on tv.



I agree with this. I've eaten tons of junk food my entire adult life and, because I gained very little weight, I appeared to be getting away with it.

But now, in the last 5 years or so, I've been diagnosed with high cholesterol and high blood pressure, and, more recently, found out I might be on the brink of Type II diabetes. My point is, had I had weight issues when I was younger, I might have been more motivated to eat better and might have avoided these health issues I'm facing now. And now I'm somewhat "old" and set in my ways, and finding it very, very hard to change my habits for the better at this late date even though I know I really need to.

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Author: ariechert Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 586114 of 749362
Subject: Re: Epi-Genetics - Not a Slave To Your Genetics Date: 9/23/2011 12:56 AM
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"Parents Sonny and Cher were both thin (at least they were all the times I saw them), but Chaz is heavy. I was wondering to myself how that could be?" - Andrew
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Biology 101. Sonny and Cher carried the genes to produce a Chaz Bono. It's like your playing cards with a partner and neither one of you have a winning hand but if you put your cards together something magical occurs and when you put all your cards together you can go out!

It's called "meosis" which is the production of sexual gametes from normal cells in the testes or ovaries. 4 gametes are produced from each cell. It shuffles the genes compared to mitosis (normal cell division) allowing the production of different combinations. Then when the egg and sperm meet they "mate up" and produce heterozygous genes which is why no two fraternal humans are alike. Sort of like shuffling a deck of cards only with thousands of genes.

"the chromosomes in meiosis undergo a recombination which shuffles the genes producing a different genetic combination in each gamete, compared with the co-existence of each of the two separate pairs of each chromosome (one received from each parent) in each cell which results from mitosis. the outcome of meiosis is four (genetically unique) haploid cells, compared with the two (genetically identical) diploid cells produced from mitosis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meiosis

Artie

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Author: ariechert Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 586122 of 749362
Subject: Re: Epi-Genetics - Not a Slave To Your Genetics Date: 9/23/2011 1:15 AM
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"I agree with this. I've eaten tons of junk food my entire adult life and, because I gained very little weight, I appeared to be getting away with it. But now, in the last 5 years or so, I've been diagnosed with high cholesterol and high blood pressure, and, more recently, found out I might be on the brink of Type II diabetes. My point is, had I had weight issues when I was younger, I might have been more motivated to eat better and might have avoided these health issues I'm facing now. And now I'm somewhat "old" and set in my ways, and finding it very, very hard to change my habits for the better at this late date even though I know I really need to." - Andrew
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Become a beekeeper. I swear I have known so many old geezer beekeepers that lived to be really old. Of course they work their @$$ off, heavy lifting, getting stung, working and sweating in the hot sun in beesuits - but the good thing is that it must be a healthy lifestyle because the beekeepers I've known in my life - none of them went to doctors or took care of themselves, but they ate whatever they wanted, and they all lived to be grouchy mean old men - some of them well into their 90's before they died.

Leverette, Onody, Karl Knorr, Dietz, George Jones (not the singer), and there was one more, can't remember his name, that was a diabetic but he still lived to be like 87 years old. There are others too that are in their 70's now that live in South Georgia that my brother knows. They are all mean as hell by the way. Goes along with the territory.

Artie

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Author: fleg9bo Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 586133 of 749362
Subject: Re: Epi-Genetics - Not a Slave To Your Genetics Date: 9/23/2011 1:57 AM
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Up here in SW PA what you call a soda, we call pop.

In some places they call it "taxable."

--fleg

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Author: decath Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 586172 of 749362
Subject: Re: Epi-Genetics - Not a Slave To Your Genetics Date: 9/23/2011 9:47 AM
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I agree with this. I've eaten tons of junk food my entire adult life and, because I gained very little weight, I appeared to be getting away with it.

But now, in the last 5 years or so, I've been diagnosed with high cholesterol and high blood pressure, and, more recently, found out I might be on the brink of Type II diabetes. My point is, had I had weight issues when I was younger, I might have been more motivated to eat better and might have avoided these health issues I'm facing now. And now I'm somewhat "old" and set in my ways, and finding it very, very hard to change my habits for the better at this late date even though I know I really need to.


The good news, is that you can reverse all that damage. But it won't be easy. I can tell you from personal experience, that once you get over the detox symptons and the cravings go away, it really is not that hard. It takes about a month, depending on how toxic your body is.

You find out that every time you cheat on bad food, you feel lethargic or even sickly and you'll do whatever it takes to get that amazing healthy, youthlike feeling back.

I had an uncle that died at the age of 50 back in the 90's. He was a great high school, college and post college athlete. Worked out all the time and looked fantastic. But he was self-indulgent when it came to food. When I would visit him in Nebraska, we would go to Valentino's 'all you can eat' pizza buffets and he would load up on 2 or 3 plates of pizza. Then go for a plate of desert that included generous amounts of sugar loaded ice cream and other goodies. He ate like this all the time because he thought he could get away with it.

The he got cancer. It was all over his body. Unfortunately, he chose not to try the vegan, carrot juice diet I recommended to him.

One summer he was shortstop for the winning Nebraska state softball team in his age group.

The next summer I was at his funeral.

decath

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Author: Fly2Retire Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 586337 of 749362
Subject: Re: Epi-Genetics - Not a Slave To Your Genetics Date: 9/24/2011 1:54 AM
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Decath, what is a "Vigorous Raw Salad", please?

Thanks,

Fly

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Author: decath Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 586420 of 749362
Subject: Re: Epi-Genetics - Not a Slave To Your Genetics Date: 9/24/2011 4:28 PM
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Decath, what is a "Vigorous Raw Salad", please?

Thanks,

Fly


Anything more than your typical iceberg lettuce salad with a few sprinkles of tomatoes or carrot shavings.

When our garden is in season, the greens consist of spinach, green leaf lettuce, romaine etc.. Sometimes swiss chard or kale. However, the taste tends to be strong with chard or kale and as the season progresses, it's not that tasty.

We may had some beat toppings for extra color and nutrition.

A vigorous salad will also have things like brocolli, olives, artichoke hearts and numerous other veggies.

Most of the time, with all the variaions of flavors in the salad, we don't feel we need to add any dressings.

But when we do, I like a tomatoe based salsa on mine. Sometimes spicy, sometimes italian like.

A great variation salad is spinach only topped with strawberries or blueberries topped with sesame seeds.

The variations are endless.

We never buy iceberg lettuce. We look for the big containers of organic spinach and lettuce.

Adding raw nuts is also a good variation. Almonds and walnuts are my favorite.

We have a 'vigorous' salad meal almost every day. Great nutrition and it does not load you down. You can one after you get home from work, takes 10 minutes to make and then go play 3 sets of tennis 30 minutes later.

decath

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