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Author: anniesdad Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 1956543  
Subject: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/22/2010 7:28 PM
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The fight against the planned Muslim community center near Ground Zero has a new champion: tea partier and New York gubernatorial candidate Carl Paladino.

Paladino, a businessan who has pledged to plow $10 million into his campaign, has been hounded by criticism of e-mails he sent or forwarded to dozens of people that showed, among other things, a video of a woman having sex with a horse, a picture of President Obama decked out in stereotypical pimp clothes, and a "Obama Inauguration Rehearsal" video clip that showed a traditional African tribal dance.

So, to round up, those opposing the mosque now include Paladino, a Birther pastor who wants you to send him your gold, Sarah Palin, and Newt Gingrich. On the other side are Mayor Bloomberg, the local community board, and the progressive Muslim Americans behind the project.

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2010/07/22/palad...
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Author: Theobald64 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1561241 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/22/2010 7:40 PM
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There is nothing wrong with building what they Cordoba guys are looking at doing. Islam is not the enemy here. Radical Islam and Radical Leftism is. The guys at Cordoba seem to be standard elite neoliberal types who want to try to heal this relationship.

Putting a moderate Islamic presence there is a huge blow to the radical Islamic morons. Making moderate Islam the enemy is a mistake.

The only caveat to this is if someone shows me that this group is part of the nuts. It doesn't seem to be.

It is difficult beyond words how loony the GOP would have to get to get me to ever vote for a Democrat again, but doing crap like this is a start.

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Author: bufftrainer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1561248 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/22/2010 8:00 PM
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This is perfect proof that contemporary "conservatives" are not conservative at all. They're a mixed bag of ideology-free nitwits, crazy people, emotionally unstable people, frightened people, and bigots.

Original conservatives, the 15 of them that still exist, believe in neighborhoods governing themselves. That's one original basis of the states' rights movement, but now people who argue for states' rights oppose neighborhood governance if it entails tolerance.

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Author: MrCynic Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1561251 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/22/2010 8:09 PM
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So, what do you think about a mosque at Ground Zero. You think that's a good deal?

No problem with that?

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Author: Theobald64 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1561255 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/22/2010 8:18 PM
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So, what do you think about a mosque at Ground Zero. You think that's a good deal?

No problem with that?


It really depends. If this thing is backed by the Marxist/Radical Islam a**hats then no, it isn't.

But, and I hope this is the case, it is backed by people who honestly want to strengthen tolerant moderate Islam, then it is a good thing. Problem is, particularly from our friends on the left, that they have lied so much for so long about damn near everything, that the mere fact that they support it raises questions.

I am pretty sure that these people are moderate neoliberal types and that the placement of this center will do more good then harm. It does not help that the lefties in here support it as anything that the usual suspects in here support reflexively has me asking myself "where is the con"

That's the downside of habitual lying gang. Even when something makes sense, no one will trust you.

It's probably a good thing to put the thing up and Palin, et. al. are probably being stupid in raising this fuss.

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Author: bufftrainer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1561256 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/22/2010 8:19 PM
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So, what do you think about a mosque at Ground Zero. You think that's a good deal?

No problem with that?


Since it's not at ground zero, that's a stupid question. What do you think about outsiders telling a neighborhood what buildings to permit, BrBigGovernment?

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Author: krisspykriss Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1561257 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/22/2010 8:20 PM
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What is wrong with it? I fail to see the issue. Christians have done horendous acts "in the name of God" and we don't go screaming about putting up a Christian church anywhere. Oh, but it is being done by "them" this time, so it is all different now?

The right like to lump many people together whether cho-moes and gays or radical extremists with law abiding Muslims. You find a few crazies and get out the wide brush to apply their vileness to everyone THEY choose to include in the group.

I have seen through this facade for years, when will "Real Amerika"?

krisspykriss

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Author: ghdude1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1561258 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/22/2010 8:21 PM
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So, what do you think about a mosque at Ground Zero. You think that's a good deal?

No problem with that?


Why would anyone have a problem with it?

Derek

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Author: bcairns Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1561262 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/22/2010 8:30 PM
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The only caveat to this is if someone shows me that this group is part of the nuts. It doesn't seem to be.

Actually, the jury is out on these guys. There are claims that they are not so moderate. It wouldn't be surprising, if true.

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Author: ghdude1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1561266 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/22/2010 8:44 PM
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Actually, the jury is out on these guys. There are claims that they are not so moderate. It wouldn't be surprising, if true.

It'd be interesting to see how a process where churches need to prove themselves sufficiently non-violent prior to obtaining building permits.

Derek

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Author: MrCynic Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1561268 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/22/2010 8:47 PM
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Why would anyone have a problem with it?

Like the attack on 9-11 itself, building a Mosque at that location is a symbolic act having ramifications far beyond the mere fact of it's execution.

The radical Muslim interpretation of it will be that if America's defenders can't even prevent this, then surely American society is ripe for destruction. In other words, it would mean that America has grown so decadent that it can't defend itself. That Americans don't even care about American culture enough to defend it. And they'd be right.

The people who blew up the Buddhist shrines and statues, who built a Mosque on the Dome of the Rock, who converted cathedrals into Mosques all over the Eastern Roman empire, for whom there are hundreds of examples of the establishment of Mosques on sites of historical significant to cultures that the Muslims have conquered, surely appreciate the symbolism involved here.

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Author: Theobald64 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1561269 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/22/2010 8:48 PM
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What is wrong with it? I fail to see the issue. Christians have done horendous acts "in the name of God" and we don't go screaming about putting up a Christian church anywhere. Oh, but it is being done by "them" this time, so it is all different now?

The issue is not terribly difficult to see, if you bother to look. The problem is with the word "anywhere". They are not building this "anywhere", they are building it near a site where a bunch of nihilist thugs greased about 3K of humanity in the false claim that they were doing this in the name of Islam.

So, first get your facts straight. They are not building it "anywhere" if "they" were it would not be as big a deal. I am quite sure that you would be less enthusiastic about the Israelis putting a Jewish Shrine inside of the al-Aqsa Mosque. A much more extreme example, to be sure, but you get the point.

Further, if your motivation in supporting this is simply as yet another banal "stick it to the Christians" moment, then I can see where Palin et. al. get their ammunition from. That should not be what this is about, it should be about what the Cordoba guys say it is about, which is a coming together of the faiths.

Again, there is never anything direct with the left. They will say that something is for a good cause, and then dig a little deeper and we get a post like this, where the motivation is to use any event as a "stick it to <insert your hated element here>" moment.

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Author: ghdude1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1561273 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/22/2010 9:02 PM
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Like the attack on 9-11 itself, building a Mosque at that location is a symbolic act having ramifications far beyond the mere fact of it's execution.

The radical Muslim interpretation of it will be that if America's defenders can't even prevent this, then surely American society is ripe for destruction. In other words, it would mean that America has grown so decadent that it can't defend itself. That Americans don't even care about American culture enough to defend it. And they'd be right.

The people who blew up the Buddhist shrines and statues, who built a Mosque on the Dome of the Rock, who converted cathedrals into Mosques all over the Eastern Roman empire, for whom there are hundreds of examples of the establishment of Mosques on sites of historical significant to cultures that the Muslims have conquered, surely appreciate the symbolism involved here.


Well first and foremost, so what? This is still America.

But I actually think it's great since everything you said is completely wrong. In fact an act of tolerance like this completely obliterates the most common myth in the Muslim world, that we're at war with their religion and trying to convert them. Nearly all AQ recruits joined because of this reasoning. I can't think of a more powerful weapon against that than a mosque being built next to WTC.

It's actually too bad it's kinda far away and not right next door.

Derek

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Author: kenm47 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1561276 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/22/2010 9:07 PM
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"They are not building it "anywhere" if "they" were it would not be as big a deal."

That's right. They're building it in America, the land of the free, the country founded upon a number of principles including freedom of religion.

Those that seek to block this are shortsighted indeed. Block it and the terrorists will have won another battle.

Ken

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Author: TechtonicBlade64 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1561277 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/22/2010 9:08 PM
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I don't have any issue with the Mosque going up at ground zero, if that is where they want it. As long as the laws and regulations were followed for NY city, what is the big deal here??

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Author: TechtonicBlade64 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1561278 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/22/2010 9:13 PM
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and I think that Former Congressman Rick Lazio is correct in making sure that funding for this Mosque is coming from a legit source i.e. non-terrorist.

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Author: krisspykriss Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1561285 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/22/2010 9:30 PM
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Further, if your motivation in supporting this is simply as yet another banal "stick it to the Christians" moment, then I can see where Palin et. al. get their ammunition from.

Where is the "stick it to the Chrisitan" moment inmy post? I don't see it. You can find crazies in any religion who have done horrible things "because God told me to." Christians are the majority in America. They don't really need protection. In fact, we need protection against them as proven by American history. My point is if this had been done by some crazy "I see Jesus" person, there would already be a big Christian cathedral standing near ground zero and no one would ever question if they should, much less fight it. Everyone would assume it was being built there to bring the community together and not tear it apart. But since "they" are building it, it is in bad taste. I get it. I really do get it.

krisspykriss

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Author: MrCynic Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1561290 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/22/2010 9:44 PM
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But I actually think it's great since everything you said is completely wrong. In fact an act of tolerance like this completely obliterates the most common myth in the Muslim world, that we're at war with their religion and trying to convert them.

No, all of that is irrelevant.

All they care about is scoring points with the place they face when they pray 5 times a day. Humbling America is a feather in their turban to show off to the Mullahs. It gets them some juice in the Holy Lands. That's all. Everything else is just fluff and stuff for the Westerners to consume.

They care nothing for our tolerance. They think it's stupid, a sign of weakness.

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Author: TechtonicBlade64 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1561293 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/22/2010 9:53 PM
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"All they care about is scoring points with the place they face when they pray 5 times a day. Humbling America is a feather in their turban to show off to the Mullahs. It gets them some juice in the Holy Lands. That's all. Everything else is just fluff and stuff for the Westerners to consume.
"

Are you making an assumption here? Or is there evidence of it?

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Author: MrCynic Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1561296 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/22/2010 9:58 PM
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Are you making an assumption here? Or is there evidence of it?

Of course, I'm speaking of radical Muslims.

It's all in this book, The Strong Horse: Power, Politics, and the Clash of Arab Civilizations:

http://www.amazon.com/Strong-Horse-Power-Politics-Civilizati...

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Author: TechtonicBlade64 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1561297 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/22/2010 10:03 PM
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"Of course, I'm speaking of radical Muslims.

It's all in this book, The Strong Horse: Power, Politics, and the Clash of Arab Civilizations:
"

I understand your concerns. And making a decision from fear of "what if" is setting a bad precedent. As long as everything is done above board and legal, there should be no reason to deny.

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Author: MrCynic Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1561301 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/22/2010 10:20 PM
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As long as everything is done above board and legal, there should be no reason to deny.

I'm just pointing out that there is more to this than meets the eye. Just don't be surprised when radical Muslims refer to the Mosque as one of their victories, and when our show of tolerance, fairness, and even handedness is taken for weakness.

I can also almost guarantee that regardless of who builds the Mosque, owns the Mosque, and starts running it, it will be taken over by the radicals in the blink of an eye. Those guys will be falling all over themselves to take control of it, they will do whatever it takes and spend whatever is necessary.

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Author: TechtonicBlade64 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1561304 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/22/2010 10:26 PM
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Mcynic, you are probably right about what will happen and how radicals will perceive it. And I think we are between a rock and hard place on this one. Either way the radicals will portray this either as a rallying call or a victory.

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Author: BlueGrits Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1561315 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/22/2010 11:27 PM
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Theobald wrote,

Islam is not the enemy here. Radical Islam and Radical Leftism is.

If anything, Radical Islam is more Radical Rightie. The evidence is all there: rush to judgment followed by state sanctioned execution; religious tests for officeholders; threats to non-believers.

On another subject, I think there is something to be said for banning the mosque anywhere near "ground zero" but the proponents seem overly limited in their scope. What with radically conservative religions causing so much violence, maybe ALL churches/synagogues/temples should be banned from the area. I mean, hey, you wouldn't want to be only *partially* safe from religious extremists, would you?

I suppose one major concern is that gov't oversight and permitting of religious buildings will not only increase the intrusion of gov't in people's lives but also raise taxes. Convincing folks to accept that may be no small task, but give it a whirl...

BG

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Author: 10talents Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1561316 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/22/2010 11:33 PM
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Like the attack on 9-11 itself, building a Mosque at that location is a symbolic act having ramifications far beyond the mere fact of it's execution.

The radical Muslim interpretation of it will be that if America's defenders can't even prevent this, then surely American society is ripe for destruction. In other words, it would mean that America has grown so decadent that it can't defend itself. That Americans don't even care about American culture enough to defend it. And they'd be right.

The people who blew up the Buddhist shrines and statues, who built a Mosque on the Dome of the Rock, who converted cathedrals into Mosques all over the Eastern Roman empire, for whom there are hundreds of examples of the establishment of Mosques on sites of historical significant to cultures that the Muslims have conquered, surely appreciate the symbolism involved here.


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Inconvenient, I guess.

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Author: Theobald64 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1561317 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/22/2010 11:37 PM
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Where is the "stick it to the Chrisitan" moment inmy post?

Right here...

What is wrong with it? I fail to see the issue. Christians have done horendous acts "in the name of God" and we don't go screaming about putting up a Christian church anywhere. Oh, but it is being done by "them" this time, so it is all different now?

Yeah, and so what. There was absolutely zero reason to mention Christians at all in this. IMO, you are so bigoted that you can't even see it in yourself. You even managed to disassociate the major point of this issue - which is it's location, making the equivalence between an Islamic faith center in the most sensitive spot in the country and the construction of a Christian church "anywhere". You only make that titanic of a screw up if you are breathtakingly stupid (which I don't think you are), have a ton of hate in your heart and don't really care (I doubt it) or are so reflexively bigoted that you don't even realize it (probably the case)

and:

The right like to lump many people together whether cho-moes and gays or radical extremists with law abiding Muslims. You find a few crazies and get out the wide brush to apply their vileness to everyone THEY choose to include in the group.

And staggeringly oafish posts like the one you dished out here give them more than ample ammo to do just that and frankly, you guys are just as guilty. The Palin's of the world are making a very strong case that there is a ton of anti-Christian bigotry out there, particularly in the Education and Democratic Political Establishment, and particularly directed against southern Protestants, and you know what, at least with people like you, they are dead right. They haven't yet sold me that it is anything more that the most hateful of the left that are into this anti-Christian gig, but they are making headway.

Many on the far left are bigoted, six ways from sunday, they see these people as somehow being subhuman for being in a lower socioecomic group, for being in religious order that they despise.

It is particularly depressing that someone who is of the background you claim (transgender, I believe) is so blind to this, having doubtlessly been on the same sharp stick you are now jabbing at the people you have lumped into a great big mass.

I have seen through this facade for years, when will "Real Amerika"?

This is the money line, if you must know. What facade is that? Prey tell? That people protesting this who are emotionally burnt from a great tragedy on 9/11 are all part of some Christian Right Wing Cabal? Horses*it, I bet most of those people who protested this decision are typical people - lightly religious and in a great deal of pain. They are misguided, as putting up a mosque with the intent of bringing people together is a good thing by and large.

You are guilty as sin for the exact behavior you claim to condemn. You are trying to lump together a dissent that is not directed toward a group you dislike as some sort of bogus Christian Cabal that the "Real Amerika" (who ever the h*ll that is) can't see. It's total cr*p.

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1561318 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/22/2010 11:57 PM
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"Those that seek to block this are shortsighted indeed. Block it and the terrorists will have won another battle."

Brilliantly put. It is a shame some cannot see this clearly as you do.

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1561321 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/23/2010 12:03 AM
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"Where is the "stick it to the Chrisitan" moment inmy post? I don't see it. You can find crazies in any religion who have done horrible things "because God told me to." Christians are the majority in America. They don't really need protection."

There wasn't any. This attitude is driven by fear, and is reflective of that same paranoia that sees a 'war on Christmas' or and 'war on marriage' etc, because others do not share their religious beliefs. This is exactly what the Founders intended to prevent. Freedom from persecution - across the board.

Build a mosque, a church, or a bathhouse where you want - as long as you follow the law. Next thing you know, these folks will be able to agree on how close is too close.

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1561322 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/23/2010 12:05 AM
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"They care nothing for our tolerance. They think it's stupid, a sign of weakness."

That will be their undoing. Unless we prove them right, by undercutting our tolerance whenever it is convenient or easier.

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Author: krisspykriss Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1561330 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/23/2010 12:35 AM
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Yeah, and so what. There was absolutely zero reason to mention Christians at all in this. IMO, you are so bigoted that you can't even see it in yourself. You even managed to disassociate the major point of this issue - which is it's location, making the equivalence between an Islamic faith center in the most sensitive spot in the country and the construction of a Christian church "anywhere". You only make that titanic of a screw up if you are breathtakingly stupid (which I don't think you are), have a ton of hate in your heart and don't really care (I doubt it) or are so reflexively bigoted that you don't even realize it (probably the case)

I have never heard of a Christian church ever having a national movement to stop it's construction. I have never seen the building of a Christian church ever brought up as a political issue. If you can find one, please show it to me. THAT makes it relavent.

Lumping aome crazy extremist who happen to be Muslim in with ALL Muslims would be like me pointing to David Koresh or Adolf Hitler and saying THAT is how ALL Christians behave. I don't have this bias and hatred against Christianity that clouds my vision. I have a bias and hatred of ALL religion. Your bias and hatred is much more centralized towards... Muslims. I just love the sinners (theists) and hate the sin (religion).

The Christian Cabal is very real. It is very evident. You talk about sticking to the constitution, but yet ignore our freedom of religion. Why? Because you are a blind pawn who sees not where he is heading and just follows the voice of the Real Amerika as Palin whispers sweet nothings (really has she said ANYTHING) in your ear. You fail to see how you, the Christian Right Real Amerika, turn your selves into false victims and label your opposers as the ones oppressing you. What ever though. You will never see it. You are blinded by the years of indoctrination.

krisspykriss (who hates all religion equally but loves the people just as much)

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Author: Theobald64 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1561347 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/23/2010 6:18 AM
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I have a bias and hatred of ALL religion.

Nonsense, I suspect that your hatred is much more specific than that otherwise you would be telling the muslims to take a hike.

Your bias and hatred is much more centralized towards... Muslims.

Oh really? then explain why I think building the center is a good idea?

I have never heard of a Christian church ever having a national movement to stop it's construction. I have never seen the building of a Christian church ever brought up as a political issue. If you can find one, please show it to me. THAT makes it relavent.

This is unsurprising. You need to get out more. This issue got so bad that Congress passed a law to make discrimination in zoning for a religious site illegal.

The running legal battles in these “zoning wars” led Congress in 2000 to pass the Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act (RLUIPA), which is designed in large part to protect houses of worship from discrimination. The law states: “No government shall impose or implement a land use regulation in a manner that treats a religious assembly or institution on less than equal terms with a non-religious assembly or institution.”

http://www.religionlink.com/tip_050502.php

To get more pointed, the American Atheists opposed the creation of a memorial at the 9/11 site created from a 20 foot beam found in the rubble that creates a cross. The atheists rationale, interestingly enough, was that public funds should not be used to do this and, pay attention now, that the creation of a religious site would be insulting to those without faith who died there.

Many people who died on September 11 weren't Christian. There were Jews, Muslims, and atheists who died. This is a Christian religious advertisement, and allowing it to stay there is an insult to everyone who doesn't believe in that particular religion.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/wtccross.asp

Yet another garden variety hater, move along now....

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Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/23/2010 6:38 AM
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I don't have any issue with the Mosque going up at ground zero, if that is where they want it.

It's not. The fall-back position for opponents will no doubt be that it's too close (in the same neighborhood). One wonders how far away they think it should be, but they're not going to tell us. The location is just an excuse being used amidst a widespread effort to suppress Islam (through obstruction of Mosque construction) in the US. As noted below, this is a poorly veiled right wing campaign to stop Islam all together.

Political battles in the form of land use disputes are cropping up across the country (including of course most famously in New York City) as opposition to the construction of new mosques grow louder and, at times, uglier.
http://www.bjconline.org/index.php?option=com_content&ta...


Mosque construction in the United States has become a catalyst for increased anti-Islam and anti-Muslim sentiment, discrimination and hate crimes in recent years.
Efforts to construct mosques to accommodate growing Muslim populations have sparked intense opposition. A commentary appearing in the New York Post last month attacked plans to construct mosques in the state of New York:
"...There's no denying the elephant in the room. Neither is there any rejoicing over the mosques proposed for Sheepshead Bay, Staten Island and Ground Zero because where there are mosques, there are Muslims, and where there are Muslims, there are problems."


http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/07/19/esposito.muslim.center...

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Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/23/2010 6:42 AM
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All they care about is scoring points with the place they face when they pray 5 times a day. Humbling America is a feather in their turban to show off to the Mullahs. It gets them some juice in the Holy Lands. That's all. Everything else is just fluff and stuff for the Westerners to consume.


Like reading a textbook on paranoia.

They care nothing for our tolerance.

OUR? That includes you? The author of that post? The right wing is insane.

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Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/23/2010 6:43 AM
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I'm speaking of radical Muslims.


Uhuh. You forgot to establish their connection to the Community Center.

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Author: kenm47 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1561355 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/23/2010 7:28 AM
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"Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, the spiritual leader of Masjid Al-Farah mosque in lower Manhattan, has gained a reputation in New York for his interfaith work and his progressive practice of Islam. Together with his wife Daisy Khan, Imam Feisal envisioned devotees to Islam sharing space with other communities to enjoy arts, culture and dialogue. Inspired by the struggle of other religious communities seeking acceptance in America, they set out to establish Cordoba House, named for the Spanish city where Muslims, Jews, and Christians together created one of the most fertile and creative civilizations in the world."

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/c_welto...

Either ban ALL religious buildings in lower Manhattan, or drop this fearmongering BS.

Ken

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Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/23/2010 7:30 AM
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"The right wing is insane."

And so many layers of hypocrisy that they convince themselves their reaction to whatever "issue " of the moment is pure enlightenment without regard to how they undercut everything else they "believe" in.

Despicable!

Ken

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Author: bcairns Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1561430 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/23/2010 11:15 AM
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Good thread. The Jihadists are using our tolerance against us. Many seem to think that they are acting against their own interests in doing this. I tend to think that people generally act in their own interests.

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Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/23/2010 11:37 AM
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I take back all those bad things I said about you Theo.

Dov

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Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/23/2010 11:41 AM
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So, what do you think about a mosque at Ground Zero. You think that's a good deal?

No problem with that?



It's not at ground zero.

How many blocks away would be sufficient for you?

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Author: wburble Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1561513 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/23/2010 12:33 PM
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a video of a woman having sex with a horse

Yes but it had the following disclaimer:

"No animals were harmed in the making of this video."

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Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/23/2010 12:34 PM
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Why shouldn't radical Muslims get to put a mosque at Ground Zero?

They won, didn't they?

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Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/23/2010 12:36 PM
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Why shouldn't radical Muslims get to put a mosque at Ground Zero?

They won, didn't they?


You know it's not Al Qaeda building the mosque right?

Derek

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Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/23/2010 12:40 PM
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You know it's not Al Qaeda building the mosque right?

Derek


I don't know and I don't care.

However, a big ol' Mosque standing right smack dab in the middle of Ground Zero (whoever actually builds it) will be a very healthy reminder for the rest of us.

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Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/23/2010 12:41 PM
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Mcynic, you are probably right about what will happen and how radicals will perceive it. And I think we are between a rock and hard place on this one. Either way the radicals will portray this either as a rallying call or a victory.




there is a war going on within Islam globally between radicals and moderates (it's also happening within other religions, btw).

it is not a sign of weakness for the moderates to win a battle and have their Mosque. The fact that moderate Muslims have the victory of building a Mosque in one of the most visible parts of America shows Muslims all over the world that the US does not hate Muslims, as GWB himself said many times. It also proves that we do not discriminate against Muslims, who if as you say, follow all the rules, are entitled to build their house of worship.

on the other hand, denying moderate Muslims the freedom that other Americans enjoy gives a propaganda weapon to radical Muslims around the world who will say 'you see, we told you. The American infidels hate Islam and Muslims. Don't be a foolish moderate because they will spit on you'.

I say the same thing you say, if the Muslims follow the rules and legal requirements, there is no reason to deny them. This is America after all, where people are supposed to be free and equal under the law.

Let's prove it to the rest of the world by following our own laws.

TB, even though we do have our fights, I believe you are a good hearted man who tries to be fair.

and fairness is the issue here.


Dov

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Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/23/2010 12:41 PM
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However, a big ol' Mosque standing right smack dab in the middle of Ground Zero (whoever actually builds it) will be a very healthy reminder for the rest of us.

Yep. If the builders aren't Jihadists, they're incredible stupid.

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Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/23/2010 12:45 PM
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I don't know and I don't care.

Well you do know and very clearly you do care. These are Americans you are suggesting we discriminate against... not Al Qaeda.

However, a big ol' Mosque standing right smack dab in the middle of Ground Zero (whoever actually builds it) will be a very healthy reminder for the rest of us.

It's not in the middle of Ground Zero and it's a healthy reminder that this is the United States, not Saudi Arabia, and we tolerate other religions here.

Derek

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Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/23/2010 12:49 PM
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However, a big ol' Mosque standing right smack dab in the middle of Ground Zero

Right in the middle? I thought it was going to be several blocks away.

Though from the sound of things, you seem like someone that wants to outlaw all mosques everywhere in the United States.

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Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/23/2010 12:51 PM
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Yep. If the builders aren't Jihadists, they're incredible stupid.

They're stupid for wanting to build a house of worship and cultural center?

You do realize these are Americans it serves right?

Derek

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Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/23/2010 1:06 PM
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The Perfesser says

All they care about is scoring points with the place they face when they pray 5 times a day. Humbling America is a feather in their turban to show off to the Mullahs. It gets them some juice in the Holy Lands. That's all. Everything else is just fluff and stuff for the Westerners to consume.

They care nothing for our tolerance. They think it's stupid, a sign of weakness.

Once again the Perfesser shows his deep understanding of Islam. He forgot to mention the thing about drinking the blood of Christian babies, though.

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Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/23/2010 1:07 PM
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The Perfesser says

I'm just pointing out that there is more to this than meets the eye. Just don't be surprised when radical Muslims refer to the Mosque as one of their victories, and when our show of tolerance, fairness, and even handedness is taken for weakness.

I can also almost guarantee that regardless of who builds the Mosque, owns the Mosque, and starts running it, it will be taken over by the radicals in the blink of an eye. Those guys will be falling all over themselves to take control of it, they will do whatever it takes and spend whatever is necessary.

Booga boogahhhh!!!

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Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/23/2010 1:39 PM
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So, to round up, those opposing the mosque now include


I lived in NYC for 12 years, around the corner from the Afghani restaurant on 3rd where I ate at dozens of times over the years. I also voted for Bloomberg.

I also lost a lot of friends and co-workers in the cowardly attack on civilans - Jew, Christian, Muslim, Krishna, athiest - by Muslim terrorists.

I oppose it.


Insulting your opponents and rumor-mongering is no way to convince anyone of the veracity of your argument, although I realize no one on the Left believes this anymore.

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Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/23/2010 2:36 PM
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fearmongering BS.

That's all it is, and it's far more general than downtown Manhattan. Without anger, hate, and fear the right has nothing to talk about.

Political battles in the form of land use disputes are cropping up across the country (including of course most famously in New York City) as opposition to the construction of new mosques grow louder and, at times, uglier.
http://www.bjconline.org/index.php?option=com_content&ta......


Mosque construction in the United States has become a catalyst for increased anti-Islam and anti-Muslim sentiment, discrimination and hate crimes in recent years.
Efforts to construct mosques to accommodate growing Muslim populations have sparked intense opposition. A commentary appearing in the New York Post last month attacked plans to construct mosques in the state of New York:
"...There's no denying the elephant in the room. Neither is there any rejoicing over the mosques proposed for Sheepshead Bay, Staten Island and Ground Zero because where there are mosques, there are Muslims, and where there are Muslims, there are problems."


http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/07/19/esposito.muslim.center......

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Author: krisspykriss Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1561779 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/23/2010 5:33 PM
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This is unsurprising. You need to get out more. This issue got so bad that Congress passed a law to make discrimination in zoning for a religious site illegal.

This still does not show Christian churches being discriminated against. If they were, it was from other Christians. Christian on Christian discrimination is not what I am talking about. Even then, who is the oppressor?.....ohhhhh Christians.

krisspykriss

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Author: disintegration10 Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1561784 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/23/2010 5:42 PM
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The trouble with Islam is that there is no reciprocity. Saudi Arabia help fund a lot of mosques built in the West but won’t allow churches to be built in Saudi Arabia. The Saudi government denies the Saudi Christians the liberty of sharing their faith, yet demands this liberty for Muslims living elsewhere.

I say they can build a mosque at Ground Zero when the Christians can build a church at Mecca.

Plus, if the Muslims wishing to build a mosque at Ground Zero are truly moderate, then I think that they would recognise how sensitive the issue is with many Americans and that they would generate more goodwill by agreeing to build the mosque further away.

Call me cynical but if it is allowed I think it will be portrayed in Islamic countries as a great victory. The domination of Islam and the submission of America to it.

Disintegration

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Author: Theobald64 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1561792 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/23/2010 5:51 PM
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This still does not show Christian churches being discriminated against. If they were, it was from other Christians. Christian on Christian discrimination is not what I am talking about. Even then, who is the oppressor?.....ohhhhh Christians.

Forget it, you are gone to me. Just another boring garden variety hater. Move along....

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Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/23/2010 5:51 PM
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The trouble with Islam is that there is no reciprocity. Saudi Arabia help fund a lot of mosques built in the West but won’t allow churches to be built in Saudi Arabia. The Saudi government denies the Saudi Christians the liberty of sharing their faith, yet demands this liberty for Muslims living elsewhere.

I say they can build a mosque at Ground Zero when the Christians can build a church at Mecca.


Perhaps you were not aware, but one of the most fundamental principles of our government is that we NOT be a state where the government controls religion like Saudi Arabia.

Further, the decision you are speaking of is the Saudi Government, not Islam. In fact unlike most Christian faiths, there isn't really a centralized system of governance in Islam.

Plus, if the Muslims wishing to build a mosque at Ground Zero are truly moderate, then I think that they would recognise how sensitive the issue is with many Americans and that they would generate more goodwill by agreeing to build the mosque further away.

But again, the issue isn't sensitive except to people who think we're at war with Islam. We're not.

Call me cynical but if it is allowed I think it will be portrayed in Islamic countries as a great victory. The domination of Islam and the submission of America to it.

That's basically absurd.

Derek

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Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/23/2010 5:54 PM
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"I say they can build a mosque at Ground Zero when the Christians can build a church at Mecca."

So measure this country by Saudi Arabia?????????

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Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/23/2010 6:05 PM
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But again, the issue isn't sensitive except to people who think we're at war with Islam. We're not.
________________________

Horse Manure.

I know a lot of folks who head down to ground zero to mourn.

You can say it is not a stick in the eye to have them go down there and face a mosque in what would have been the shadow of the tomb that their loved ones would be. Many of the victims still are not identified even by the slightest trace.

It isn't about a war with Islam. It is about common decency.

Putting a mosque at ground zero would be like putting a tribute to the german soldier at a holocaust site. Just as most German soldiers were not evil persons, neither are most Muslims, still it would be insensitive and just flat out wrong.

No one is arguing with the building of a mosque, which would clearly be the case with your sophomoric claim. It is the impact on the folks grieving. It is unnecessary and it is just flat out inconsiderate to the point of cruelty.

Perhaps you can say constitutionally it should be built, that may be the case. SHould it be allowed? No.

There is no reason for it, except as an inflammatory move. It is not a Muslim area, not of any significance to Muslims except as a death site of a few and many others.

It is clearly inappropriate.

Is is pathetic to claim this is an attack on Islam and were I to believe it possible I would say you should be ashamed of yourself.

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Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/23/2010 6:14 PM
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"Putting a mosque at ground zero would be like putting a tribute to the german soldier at a holocaust site. Just as most German soldiers were not evil persons, neither are most Muslims, still it would be insensitive and just flat out wrong."

Yes, alot like putting a christian church at a holocaust site. All
christians are reponsible for the holocust like all muslism are responsible for 9/11

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Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/23/2010 6:19 PM
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Yeah, and so what. There was absolutely zero reason to mention Christians at all in this.

Yeah, there was. An attack on one religion is an attack on all.

There would be none of this hue and cry if, instead of a mosque, it was a Christian church or a synagogue being built in the same location.

...an Islamic faith center in the most sensitive spot in the country...

I fail to see how a house of worship near the site of a great tragedy is necessarily a bad thing.

Speck

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Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/23/2010 6:20 PM
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Horse Manure.

I know a lot of folks who head down to ground zero to mourn.

You can say it is not a stick in the eye to have them go down there and face a mosque in what would have been the shadow of the tomb that their loved ones would be. Many of the victims still are not identified even by the slightest trace.

It isn't about a war with Islam. It is about common decency.

Putting a mosque at ground zero would be like putting a tribute to the german soldier at a holocaust site. Just as most German soldiers were not evil persons, neither are most Muslims, still it would be insensitive and just flat out wrong.


Uh no it's nothing remotely like that. This isn't a tribute to al Qaeda's soldiers. It's a mosque.

No one is arguing with the building of a mosque, which would clearly be the case with your sophomoric claim.

Actually, that's precisely what you are arguing. Well except when you rather bizarrely claimed you didn't say what you said. That was pretty funny by the way.

It is the impact on the folks grieving. It is unnecessary and it is just flat out inconsiderate to the point of cruelty.

But again, what is cruel about it? Unless you think our enemy is Islam, there is nothing at all that insensitive. It's far worse to discriminate against Muslims, many of whom also know people that died that day, than to pretend that there can't be a mosque in lower Manhattan.

There is no reason for it, except as an inflammatory move.

Yeah, it can't be to serve their neighborhood which has a large Muslim population.

Nahh.. it's got to be some sort of sneaky Muslim thing where they're trying to hurt people with their swimming pool and peace center.

It is not a Muslim area, not of any significance to Muslims except as a death site of a few and many others.

Well except the fact that all reports say the area has a growing muslim population and they have an existing prayer site this will replace nearby.

It is clearly inappropriate.

Is is pathetic to claim this is an attack on Islam and were I to believe it possible I would say you should be ashamed of yourself.


Except that's exactly what this is. You are objecting to a house of worship because of the faith that will gather there. There is no way to read this other than being an attack on Islam. If it were a church it wouldn't be a issue.

If you find it shameful perhaps you should take a look in the mirror.

Derek

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Author: Theobald64 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1561812 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/23/2010 6:41 PM
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I fail to see how a house of worship near the site of a great tragedy is necessarily a bad thing.

Will you please , Mr. TMF dude read what I wrote

I support a mosque going in there but I DON'T SUPPORT IT AS A FU TO CHRISTIANS

I support it because the Cordoba guys seem to be telling the truth on their intentions. Leave the anti-Christian bigotry at the door, guys and deal with this to bring people together,not as yet another "lets bash the Christians" moment.

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Author: krisspykriss Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1561824 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/23/2010 7:10 PM
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Forget it, you are gone to me. Just another boring garden variety hater. Move along....

Just what I thought, you go running off. I would too. You have nothing substantial here to work with. You said your little shtick and then quit. Just like always.

krisspykriss

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Author: 0x6a74 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1561879 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/23/2010 11:36 PM
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...an Islamic faith center in the most sensitive spot in the country...

I fail to see how a house of worship near the site of a great tragedy is necessarily a bad thing.



because to these 'folk' ,it's like building a Shinto Temple near Pearl Harbor in 1943 ..

they think ,as Derek says, that there's a World War on .. US (christians) vs (all) Muslims.




what's 'ironic' is most of the folkers twitching out wouldn't normally count NewYorkers as .true. Americans because they live in a big 'liberal' City rather than good old Palin-villes

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Author: bufftrainer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1561906 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/24/2010 7:15 AM
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You are objecting to a house of worship because of the faith that will gather there.

And to do so he's pretending the thing's at ground zero. It is in the same neighborhood, as is Masjid al-Farah. If these nitwits could win validation of their silly arguments by killing the Cordoba Center they'd immediately turn on al-Farah with the same argument. By the way, I don't think you're right about al-Farah closing.

What's revealing here is that the Center's advocates are much more American in their ideology than their critics, who want to squelch religious tolerance. The book by the Center's director, Imam Rauf, What's right with Islam is what's right with America (which you should read, Derick) argues that the tolerant system in which Muslims, Christians, and Jews lived and worshipped in harmony is much more consistent with original Islamic theology than contemporary Saudi foolishness. It is this principle to which the center is to be directed. As soon as he published the book some righty nitwits pronounced it a sham and claimed that Rauf is a terrorist who blames Jews for 911 (which contradicts his book) and eats Jewish babies with chilli, and that's what they're doing now. The same people who were scared of ML King and are today scared of the NAACP are scared of Muslims who want us to live together in tolerance. All these "rugged individualists" are frightened of how they'll fare on a playing field that's not tipped toward them. Anyone who wants us to all live together in equality is sincerely seen as hostile to them.

Because "it's at ground zero" righties are opposing a Mosque that's not at ground zero and represents enmity to the American principles it's being established to promote. Unable to admit their fundamental fear of equality they lie. Righties are insane.

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Author: bufftrainer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1561908 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/24/2010 7:43 AM
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Here's Walid Shoebat, a paid speaker for fundamentalist right wing religious groups and the primary source cited by those who say Imam Rauf is some kind of stealth terrorist and hatemonger. Among other things he claims Rauf is pro-terrorist when speaking Arabic, but peace-loving when speaking English. Shoebat also says he carried out a bombing of Bank Leumi that never happened, and knife attacks in Lebanon that happened when he was in the US. He's not real credible.

Academic professors and others who have heard Shoebat and the two other evangelists he sometimes lectures with (Zachariah Anani and Kamal Saleem), complain they are too old to have been recruited for Islamic terror as teenagers since the ideology of Islamic jihad attacks "only became prevalent in the late 1980s," and the men are all middle age.[citation needed]
Skeptics question as to why Shoebat has been able to retain his US citizenship, if it is true that he was involved in acts of terror.[10]
The Jerusalem Post, states that Shoebat has profited from his story that he was formerly a Muslim terrorist, but has rejected Islam for Christianity.[1]
When the Post asked Shoebat, whether the Walid Shoebat Foundation is a registered charity, he said that it was registered in Pennsylvania. The Pennsylvania State Attorney's office said it had no record of such a charity. When asked again, Shoebat claimed it was registered under a different name, but that he was not aware of the Foundation's registered name, nor any other details, which were known only to his manager. Dr. Joel Fishman, of the Allegany County Law Library in Pennsylvania, expressed doubts Walid Shoebat Foundation's donation process. He noted that if the money were being given to a registered charity, the charity would have to make annual reports to the state and federal government.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walid_Shoebat

Without lies, hate, and fear they have nothing.

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Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/24/2010 12:25 PM
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This gave me pause:

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2010/07/alla...

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Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/24/2010 12:28 PM
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http://www.prophecynewswatch.com/2010/July22/2261.html

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Author: Theobald64 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1561972 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/24/2010 2:10 PM
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Call me cynical but if it is allowed I think it will be portrayed in Islamic countries as a great victory. The domination of Islam and the submission of America to it.


That is a concern as is the fact that the idiots in here are all for it, which immediately means it is suspect on it's face.

But, I tend to think that allowing the faith center or Mosque or whatever the hell it is worth the risk. It shores up our image abroad, at least the public feedback (privately the French and Saudis and some effete far left goons in some Coffee Shop in Greenwich Village may be laughing like hell at it).

It's worth the gamble. But you are right, if this goes through and I think this likely, the moderate muslums have to start to grow a pair. It's a 50/50 call but the payoff is worth the stretch.

That said, optimism was a similar view I had on the "post racial" benefits that might have shown up if Obama got the nod, and I was wrong as wrong could be on that one.

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Author: bcairns Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1562045 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/24/2010 5:10 PM
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Plus, if the Muslims wishing to build a mosque at Ground Zero are truly moderate, then I think that they would recognise how sensitive the issue is with many Americans and that they would generate more goodwill by agreeing to build the mosque further away.

Yep. It's really quite obvious when you put it this way.

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Author: bcairns Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1562049 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/24/2010 5:15 PM
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Yes, alot like putting a christian church at a holocaust site.

Good example. But not in the way you think.

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Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/24/2010 5:25 PM
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Just what I thought, you go running off. I would too. You have nothing substantial here to work with. You said your little shtick and then quit. Just like always.

Theo is 100x you. I'm embarrassed for you.

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Author: ghdude1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1562059 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/24/2010 5:28 PM
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Theo is 100x you. I'm embarrassed for you.


Good thing you started that other board for people who are civil.

Derek

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Author: crassfool Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1562081 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/24/2010 6:01 PM
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0x6a74 says

because to these 'folk' ,it's like building a Shinto Temple near Pearl Harbor in 1943 ..

they think ,as Derek says, that there's a World War on .. US (christians) vs (all) Muslims.




what's 'ironic' is most of the folkers twitching out wouldn't normally count NewYorkers as .true. Americans because they live in a big 'liberal' City rather than good old Palin-villes

Right again.

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Author: bcairns Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1562083 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/24/2010 6:02 PM
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It's worth the gamble. But you are right, if this goes through and I think this likely, the moderate muslums have to start to grow a pair. It's a 50/50 call but the payoff is worth the stretch.

That said, optimism was a similar view I had on the "post racial" benefits that might have shown up if Obama got the nod, and I was wrong as wrong could be on that one.


I'm pretty much with you on this. It's a tough call.

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Author: 0x6a74 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1562104 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/24/2010 6:47 PM
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Good thing you started that other board for people who are civil.



the TeaParty board?



-
.... doubt the civility will last

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Author: dovbaer6 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1562200 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/25/2010 10:36 AM
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Horse Manure.

yes, that is something you are obviously well familiar with.


I know a lot of folks who head down to ground zero to mourn.

me too. some of them are Muslims. Many muslims died in the attacks.


You can say it is not a stick in the eye to have them go down there and face a mosque in what would have been the shadow of the tomb that their loved ones would be. Many of the victims still are not identified even by the slightest trace.

it is not a stick in the eye. and thanks for letting us know that many of the victims had pulverized. I'm sure that we never knew that.


It isn't about a war with Islam.

sure. that's why Mosque building is being opposed all over the US.


It is about common decency.

yes it is. you might try it sometime.


Putting a mosque at ground zero would be like putting a tribute to the german soldier at a holocaust site. Just as most German soldiers were not evil persons, neither are most Muslims, still it would be insensitive and just flat out wrong.

that's a stupid and offensive comparison. please don't use my people as a prop for your ridiculous arguments.


No one is arguing with the building of a mosque, which would clearly be the case with your sophomoric claim.

snort


It is the impact on the folks grieving. It is unnecessary and it is just flat out inconsiderate to the point of cruelty.

why? are these people who hate the idea of a Mosque being in the vicinity of the WTC going to visit the Mosque? If it bothers them, they can easily avoid it. contrary to what some birdbrains and liars on this board are claiming, it will not be IN the ground zero spot itself, but two blocks away. you won't be able to see it from ground zero.


Perhaps you can say constitutionally it should be built, that may be the case. SHould it be allowed? No.

so you feel it is ok to chuck the Constitution when it suits your mood. We used to be a nation of laws. Now if we follow the whims of lowstudent, we will be a nation of feelings.


There is no reason for it, except as an inflammatory move. It is not a Muslim area, not of any significance to Muslims except as a death site of a few and many others.

so the death of 'a few' Muslims has no significance. got it.


It is clearly inappropriate.

it is not clear, and it is not inappropriate.


Is is pathetic to claim this is an attack on Islam and were I to believe it possible I would say you should be ashamed of yourself.


no, you should be ashamed. you are willing to throw out the Constitution even though you acknowledge these people are within their constitutional rights to build, you say that the death of Muslims is not significant, you refuse to acknowledge that many Muslims died in the attacks and that THEIR mourners might want to have a place nearby to pray for them, you drag in the Holocaust to add emotional punch to your ridiculous arguments, and you refuse to familiarize yourself with the Muslim group that wants to build the Mosque and find out what their intentions are.

you, lowstudent, should be ashamed. your arguments are unAmerican, unfair, and lack common decency.


Dov

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1562207 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/25/2010 11:26 AM
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that's a stupid and offensive comparison. please don't use my people as a prop for your ridiculous arguments.
__________________


LMAO

And here is the just, and why as I have said before I feel you have become a phony.

My comparisson was offensive, just as a Mosque is at ground zero. That Muslims mourn it is just fine. Why do they need a mosque there< WHich they know will bother a lot of folks for no reason.

Then you have the typical gall you have come to exemplify, when later in your post you say mosques are being opposed everywhere?

What kind of manure is that, for you to object to anything anyone else writes, and to try to inject manure like that?

Dope can defend you, but indeed you have crossed over to being an abject unadulterated phony.

You argue to make someone look bad, when you know the mosuque will hurt many folks by interjecting Islam into their mourning, you simply are not stupid enough not to know that, though you mkay have become partisan enough to be blinded to reality, so perhaps I owe youan apology on that.

Pitiful dov, absolutely pitiful, but have at it.

BTW why are you offended at death camps being used as props. You like it in other venues when the place of death of thousands is allowed to be used as a prop.

You find it offensive, suck it up buttercup, it is a level of offensive you adhere to. Try living by the standards you expect of others - oh never mind you are a lib, you do not believe in that.

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Author: sandyleelee Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1562210 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/25/2010 11:32 AM
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Putting a mosque at ground zero would be like putting a tribute to the german soldier at a holocaust site. Just as most German soldiers were not evil persons, neither are most Muslims, still it would be insensitive and just flat out wrong.

I find myself wondering if you would make the same objection to a fundamentalist Christian church being built within two blocks of the site of an abortion clinic bombing.

SLL

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Author: dovbaer6 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1562257 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/25/2010 2:21 PM
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Dope can defend you, but indeed you have crossed over to being an abject unadulterated phony.




of course Dope defends me. We disagree all the time, but unlike you, he is a reasonable guy and not a name caller.


Dov

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Author: Gingko100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1562412 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/25/2010 9:54 PM
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inshallah people will realize that re-habbing a Burlington Coat Factory building several blocks from ground zero to make it a mosque is in no way a threat.

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Author: 0x6a74 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1562418 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/25/2010 10:08 PM
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I find myself wondering if you would make the same objection to a fundamentalist Christian church being built within two blocks of the site of an abortion clinic bombing.



heh. more like once the church were built, they'd lobby for the clinic to move

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Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/25/2010 11:04 PM
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follow the whims of lowstudent, we will be a nation of feelings.

Should have known...

Captioned poster would trigger the gag reflex in a komodo dragon.

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Author: scaryblondechick Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1562489 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/26/2010 9:15 AM
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You can say it is not a stick in the eye to have them go down there and face a mosque in what would have been the shadow of the tomb that their loved ones would be. Many of the victims still are not identified even by the slightest trace.

It never fails. In every thread about 9/11 and the WTC, somebody says something about how I ought to feel and pisses me off, and I find myself goaded to respond - uselessly, pointlessly. So here we go.

I received about three quarters of a cup of the cremated remains of my husband. I'm told it was mostly his maxillary arch (which I understand tends to survive fire well). The rest is just gone. Maybe it's around the site, maybe it's in Fresh Kills. But that construction site down on Church Street is not my husband's tomb. Thanks for bringing it up, though.

If I go downtown - which I don't, very often - and stand at the corner of Liberty and Church, I don't have to "face a mosque". It's a couple blocks up, on Park; I know the building pretty well. I wish it was still a Burlington Coat Factory, I used to buy all my shoes there. I do have to face a church; that neighborhood is lousy with them. I also have to face the Century 21 department store. What difference does that make? None of these institutions are impacting me directly.

The Muslims have been in this building for quite some time, you know. It's only when they started talking about making it nice, building it up, that people got their panties in a bunch. So, what, as long as they stayed invisible, kept their prayer on the down low, that was okay?

I remember the Japanese teenagers I saw in front of the site on the Church Street side, laughing and mugging for each others' cameras. That offended me. I recall the vendors and their tasteless souvenirs and t-shirts. That bugged me a little too, but I also kind of appreciated it: gotta love the NYC entrepreneurial spirit - wherever two or three are gathered together, there will a hotdog vendor be also. Should I insist that these people be removed from the site because it's supposedly sacred to me? Damn it, I grieve; but I don't own the place.

It is the impact on the folks grieving. It is unnecessary and it is just flat out inconsiderate to the point of cruelty.

... Should it be allowed? No.


One more time: don't tell me how to feel, nor generalize about how I do or should. These people have the right to do what they're doing. I believe in my country, I believe in their rights, and I would never condone the abrogation of their rights in my name.

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Author: JavaRunner Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1562492 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/26/2010 9:35 AM
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I have read with interest about the plans for this mosque and the reactions to it.

I'm not going to comment further on the nonsense that this somehow helps Muslim domination. I think that is such a bunch of hooey. And the idea that somehow we need to build a church in Saudi Arabia - more hooey.

What I am going to say is there were people of ALL faiths who died in the 9/11 attacks, including Muslims. Im not talking about the Muslims who committed these horrible acts. I'm referring to those who not only worked at the WTC, but also worked to save people's lives that day. It wasn't just Christian Americans who died that day.

I am 100% certain there are churches near "Ground Zero" where Christians go to pray and reflect and remember. Should Muslims not have the same opportunity afforded to them?

The only thing bothering be is people are trying to be quiet about the funding for it, and who may be behind it. Demand transparency, and build the mosque.

Charlie

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Author: dovbaer6 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1562502 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/26/2010 10:18 AM
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thank you scary ...

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Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/26/2010 10:38 AM
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I believe in my country, I believe in their rights, and I would never condone the abrogation of their rights in my name.


Thanks. This is a standard whack-wing pattern; they exploit "the troops the same way". For example, from under the beds whose shelter most of them will never leave to actually serve, they condemned in the name of an administration that undermanned and undersupplied our military the critics who called for mor men and better kit.

Stupid and scared is a powerful combination.

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Author: FoolishWaldo Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1562571 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/26/2010 1:20 PM
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scaryblondechick: One more time: don't tell me how to feel, nor generalize about how I do or should. These people have the right to do what they're doing. I believe in my country, I believe in their rights, and I would never condone the abrogation of their rights in my name.


After I rec'd your post (an inadquate responwe but the only action available) I looked at your profile. Your personal quote is wonderful and certainly should be applied to the opponents of the proposed mosque:

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.


-Waldo

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Author: 5761796E65 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1562674 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/26/2010 4:28 PM
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Here's a map of the mosque site. It's not at Ground Zero, but two blocks away.
http://www.cordobainitiative.org/ch_map.jpg

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Author: makasha Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1562705 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/26/2010 5:44 PM
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Neither useless, nor pointless.

Honest, eloquent and patriotic. Thank you, scaryblondechick.

Kasha

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Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/26/2010 6:04 PM
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Thanks, scary. It's good to hear from someone with a serious viewpoint, as opposed to those who are just trying to make political hay.

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1562765 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/26/2010 7:27 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkMolLriAkQ&feature=playe...

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Author: AOLFoolman100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1562771 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/26/2010 7:56 PM
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It never fails. In every thread about 9/11 and the WTC, somebody says something about how I ought to feel and pisses me off, and I find myself goaded to respond - uselessly, pointlessly. So here we go.



We understand that you lost a loved one. That certainly is VERY regrettable. We do feel that it's deplorable. We sympathize with you. We do. I lived in Manhattan for 2 years.

Now of course, there are others .....let's see, 3000 thousand OTHERS ALSO lost their lives in the 9-11 terrorist attacks. Also in DC and Pennsylvania.

Maybe THEIR relatives have differing viewpoints than you do.

You are not the only person who lost a loved one.....aside from terrorist attacks, tens of thousands lose LOVED ones every year....through sickness, cancer, heart disease, accidents, etc.

Please, I understand your plight, but you are not in a "special" position to morally dictate to people. The dozens of relatives and friends for EACH murdered 9-11 victim have a say too.

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Author: sano Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1562778 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/26/2010 8:15 PM
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that you tube production was prettyfunny.. sounded like an ad for a monster truck rally.... prolly appeals to that crowd, too. pure unadulterated fear-mongering based on the lie that it would be built at g-zero.

sano

anti-religion, but more anti-stupid, and that youtube clip was grade A stupid.

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Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1562784 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/26/2010 9:11 PM
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Please, I understand your plight, but you are not in a "special" position to morally dictate to people.

No - that special positon belongs to wingnuts in the Foxiverse and the blogosphere who know exactly how people should feel about this.

When will we ever learn that moral outrage is the exclusive domain of the minions of Rupert Murdoch?

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Author: SuaSponteMark Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1562823 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/26/2010 10:53 PM
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Now of course, there are others .....let's see, 3000 thousand OTHERS ALSO lost their lives in the 9-11 terrorist attacks. Also in DC and Pennsylvania.

Maybe THEIR relatives have differing viewpoints than you do.

---

None of my family that lost family in 9/11 feel different than scary does, so again, this "outrage" viewpoint holds no water.

Nor do the other family members I've met, which is something fairly personal to me with a familial connection myself through marriage Nor do the ones those of us in uniform have gotten to know, along with first responders who shared long hard days in response in NYC, DC, and PA, as we did in Afghanistan.

So basically I'm still waiting for an anecdotal account that support this made-up, pretend outrage talking point from the Palins of the world.

SSM, waiting

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Author: SuaSponteMark Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1562824 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/26/2010 10:54 PM
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Please, I understand your plight

---

I forgot - no, no you don't. Not even close.

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Author: JimiH3ndrix Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1562827 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/26/2010 10:59 PM
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"Please, I understand your plight, but you are not in a "special" position to morally dictate to people."

OMG.

Here was the diatribe to which she was responding:

Perhaps you can say constitutionally it should be built, that may be the case. SHould it be allowed? No.

There is no reason for it, except as an inflammatory move. It is not a Muslim area, not of any significance to Muslims except as a death site of a few and many others.

It is clearly inappropriate.

Is is pathetic to claim this is an attack on Islam and were I to believe it possible I would say you should be ashamed of yourself.

http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=28654082

I voluntarily endured 30 minutes of Hannity's radio show on this topic this afternoon as I drove around. What demagogic claptrap parading as a debate. (I'm sure some of you wingnuts here heard it, too, and cheered Hannity on.)

The moral indignation... the moral diktats are emanating from this set of reliably bloviating jackasses.

On 9/11, three thousand died. It's true.

Almost as tragically, this great nation spawned millions of sniveling cowards who tremble in fear of distant neolithic religious thugs, and who proclaim with a straight face that said cave-dwellers represent an existential threat to this country.

Frigging pathetic bed-wetters,

Jimi

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Author: FoolishWaldo Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1562831 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/26/2010 11:24 PM
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Please, I understand your plight,

Proving, I think, that you understand nothing.

...but you are not in a "special" position to morally dictate to people. The dozens of relatives and friends for EACH murdered 9-11 victim have a say too.

She's in a h*ll of a lot more "'special' position" than you are to express an opinion. You and all the other easily identified paranoids ranting and raving in this thread.

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Author: bthomas15 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1562844 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/27/2010 12:38 AM
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You are not the only person who lost a loved one.....aside from terrorist attacks, tens of thousands lose LOVED ones every year....through sickness, cancer, heart disease, accidents, etc.

Please, I understand your plight, but you are not in a "special" position to morally dictate to people. The dozens of relatives and friends for EACH murdered 9-11 victim have a say too.


Words fail me here.

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Author: ramsfanray Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1562845 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/27/2010 12:54 AM
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You are not the only person who lost a loved one.....aside from terrorist attacks, tens of thousands lose LOVED ones every year....through sickness, cancer, heart disease, accidents, etc.


My father died of a heart attack. Should I get upset if a cardiologist wants to set up his practice in my town?

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Author: Goofyhoofy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1562863 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/27/2010 7:36 AM
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I understand your plight,

Demonstrating once again that you understand nothing.
 


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Author: kenm47 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1562865 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/27/2010 7:46 AM
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"The dozens of relatives and friends for EACH murdered 9-11 victim have a say too."

Not as to what are US Constitutional rights.

Ken

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Author: Gingko100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1562918 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/27/2010 10:17 AM
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I really don't get it. A "Burlington Coat Factory" 2 blocks away is now sacred? How about a Gray's Papaya 8 blocks away? A "Banana Republic" 15 blocks away? A "Stop and Shop" 20 blocks away? At what point do we let people's fears stop dictating how existing commercial space is developed?

Frankly, urban infill means life goes on - the city fabric is full of all kinds of different uses - mosques are one of them.

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Author: ghdude1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1563020 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/27/2010 1:13 PM
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I really don't get it. A "Burlington Coat Factory" 2 blocks away is now sacred? How about a Gray's Papaya 8 blocks away? A "Banana Republic" 15 blocks away? A "Stop and Shop" 20 blocks away? At what point do we let people's fears stop dictating how existing commercial space is developed?

Frankly, urban infill means life goes on - the city fabric is full of all kinds of different uses - mosques are one of them.


Oh, right. Next thing you'll say is that it's cool for them to stop for a snack at my Jamba Juice!

Derek

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Author: synchronicityII Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1563058 of 1956543
Subject: Re: fight against "Ground Zero mosque" Date: 7/27/2010 3:05 PM
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A "Burlington Coat Factory" 2 blocks away is now sacred? How about a Gray's Papaya 8 blocks away?

If you'd ever eaten at Gray's Papaya, you wouldn't need to ask that question!

-synchronicity, "they hate us for our hot dogs"

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