No. of Recommendations: 9
Here's a pretty good article on what questions to ask if you are planning to use a financial advisor.

Questions to Ask Your Adviser About Fees
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142412788732428100457835...

</snip>


Of course, the best advice is to avoid financial advisors.

intercst
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Keep in mind, there is a large segment of our adult population that do not know the difference between an IRA and an ETF, a bond from a REIT or the S&P 500 from the Russel 2000. All they know is that between Social Security and their retirement savings, they want a comfortable and secure retirement income. Well dressed and smooth talking "advisors" in an expensive feeling building must certainly know what they are talking about. And commissions or fees? What difference does that make?

As long as this kind of relationship exists, the method of compensation will continue to be of interest to a minority of those who truly require financial assistance.

BruceM
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Keep in mind, there is a large segment of our adult population that do not know the difference between an IRA and an ETF, a bond from a REIT or the S&P 500 from the Russel 2000. All they know is that between Social Security and their retirement savings, they want a comfortable and secure retirement income.

Why don't you advise them--for free? Why not? Set up shop somewhere and advise any and all comers...for absolutely no fee whatsoever.

Or don't even set up shop. Merely let as many people as possible know you'll sit down with them and counsel them on the difference between an IRA and an ETF, a bond from a REIT and all the indices.

You'd be performing a valuable service about which you could feel very noble. And that's no joke.
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Never mind. I forgot...you gotta be licensed. Indeed, in CA, you cannot even call yourself a "retirement advisor" without the qualifying credentials to call yourself that.

What? You don't need no stinkin' credentials? Oh, yes, you do.

http://www.insurance.ca.gov/0200-industry/0050-renew-license...
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Why don't you advise them--for free? Why not? Set up shop somewhere and advise any and all comers...for absolutely no fee whatsoever.

Or don't even set up shop. Merely let as many people as possible know you'll sit down with them and counsel them on the difference between an IRA and an ETF, a bond from a REIT and all the indices.

You'd be performing a valuable service about which you could feel very noble. And that's no joke.

Isn't that what happens on these (and many other) forums and message boards?
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Isn't that what happens on these (and many other) forums and message boards?

It's all about marketing. The people who need guidance most don't even know about boards like this. Why aren't you out there marketing your services so that more people can avail themselves of your wisdom--for free, of course.
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No. of Recommendations: 22
CCinOC analyzes,

<<Isn't that what happens on these (and many other) forums and message boards?>>

It's all about marketing. The people who need guidance most don't even know about boards like this. Why aren't you out there marketing your services so that more people can avail themselves of your wisdom--for free, of course.

</snip>


The value of an investment or insurance product is inversely proportional to the amount of marketing required to sell it.

The more the marketing, the crappier the deal.

intercst
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It's funny to see the continued drivel quoted in the knowledgeable replies...

Has she come up with any data yet? I'm not sure what's taking so long since its something a person who knows about investment returns could come up with in minutes.

-murray
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Poor Murray...still managing to comment on my posts.
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The more the marketing, the crappier the deal.

Stunning logic you got there.

Someone better tell Vanguard that they should stop advertising then.

http://vanguardblog.com/2009/11/25/why-we-advertise/

But, I will remember your advise the next time you post something for your Retire Early Home Page.

Want to Advertise on Retire Early?
http://www.retireearlyhomepage.com/mediakit.html
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The value of an investment or insurance product is inversely proportional to the amount of marketing required to sell it. The more the marketing, the crappier the deal.

Yes, that makes perfect sense. The fewer people who know about goods, services, events and strategies, the better the deal.
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No. of Recommendations: 23
Hawkwin analyzes,

The more the marketing, the crappier the deal.

Stunning logic you got there.

Someone better tell Vanguard that they should stop advertising then.

http://vanguardblog.com/2009/11/25/why-we-advertise/

</snip>


You're making my point for me. Vanguard's advertising & marketing expenses as a percent of assets under management is a small fraction of what high-fee, low-value shops like Merrill-Lynch, Morgan-Stanley, Ameriprise, etc. spend.

intercst
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And you know this how?
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CCinOC asks

<<You're making my point for me. Vanguard's advertising & marketing expenses as a percent of assets under management is a small fraction of what high-fee, low-value shops like Merrill-Lynch, Morgan-Stanley, Ameriprise, etc. spend.>>

And you know this how?

</snip>


I have an MBA in Marketing and keep track of this kind of thing in my general reading.

For example:

AdAge Financial Services Report for 2012

http://gaia.adage.com/images/bin/pdf/AdAgeFinancial%20Servic...


Note the Table on Page 6 of the Top 25 Financial Services advertisers. Vanguard is not among them -- heck they're probably not even in the Top 100 since they only spent $54 million on advertising.

By assets, Vanguard ranks 4th, just behind JPMorgan, BankofAmerica, and Citigroup.

intercst
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Then Vanguard should not spend anything so that more people will learn about their superior products.
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Then Vanguard should not spend anything so that more people will learn about their superior products.
Just a word of unsolicited advice, but you might want to give up on beating this dead horse.
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Just a word of unsolicited advice, but you might want to give up on beating this dead horse.

Actually CC just about had me convinced that losing money to big commissions and excessive fees is a good idea.
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Here's a pretty good article on what questions to ask if you are planning to use a financial advisor.

And not a question about how the advisor chooses which investments to recommend. "Ms Advisor, when you are researching for good investment opportunities for yourself or your clients, which factors are most important in helping you decide in favor of, or against, a particular company or product?"

Poz
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No. of Recommendations: 2
Author: MurrayS | Date: 4/10/2013 7:09:36 PM | Number: 71896
Just another helpful word: if CC gave up beating dead horses she would have nothing left in her life except Bingo at the old folks home and the endless reruns of Housewives Of Retire Early Campfire.
-----
This thread has been pretty amusing the last few days!


Hey, you guys leave CC alone! She's working up the data to show how IULs outperform just plain investing in the S&P500. Let her do her job.

I'm looking forward[*] to getting back from the Caribbean and seeing what she came up with. Who knows? Maybe she's right. Maybe we've overlooked something.


[*] Actually, not looking forward to getting back. If they offer us a cheap price to stay on for the next cruise, I'll all over it. ;-) Looking forward to see her workup. A week and half or two weeks ought to be enough time for her to finish up and post it.
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Hey, you guys leave CC alone! She's working up the data to show how IULs outperform just plain investing in the S&P500. Let her do her job.

Excuse me, I'm not the one picking on her! I simply look on the Best Of list to find insightful, knowledgeable replies to something childish she said and it usually makes me LOL! There's a couple on there right now.

I'm sure I'll find out about her "data" from the replies. I'll leave it to the rest of you to reply since I'm taking a vacation of a different sort...and enjoying not beating my head against a dull wall.

-murray
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My prior message about wet pants got FA'd by someone. Live and learn.
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But all the personal insults that someone else continues to post on this and other threads are fine?

Color me confused.
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Booo hooo hoooo....waaaaah....waaaaahh...waaaaaaaah...my prior post was FA'd by some limp wristed financial fanatic who doesn't agree with their position or offers an alternative for discussion. They start the snarky posts (Rayvt, etc.)... they can dish it out but can't take it.

Waaaaaaa....waaaaaa....waaaaaa I'm sooooooo sad!
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Booo hooo hoooo....waaaaah....waaaaahh...waaaaaaaah...my prior post was FA'd by some limp wristed financial fanatic who doesn't agree with their position or offers an alternative for discussion. They start the snarky posts (Rayvt, etc.)... they can dish it out but can't take it.

Waaaaaaa....waaaaaa....waaaaaa I'm sooooooo sad!


With all due respect, do you have any idea how you come across in this and other posts?

-synchronicity
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Booo hooo hoooo....waaaaah....waaaaahh...waaaaaaaah...my prior post was FA'd by some limp wristed financial fanatic who doesn't agree with their position or offers an alternative for discussion. They start the snarky posts (Rayvt, etc.)... they can dish it out but can't take it.

I guess we know who FA'd the reply.
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CC siad: Booo hooo hoooo....waaaaah....waaaaahh...waaaaaaaah...my prior post was FA'd by some limp wristed financial fanatic who doesn't agree with their position or offers an alternative for discussion. They start the snarky posts (Rayvt, etc.)... they can dish it out but can't take it.

Waaaaaaa....waaaaaa....waaaaaa I'm sooooooo sad!


I have no idea what you're talking about. But I notice that you are taking the same tone in this complaint as you do in a lot of your posts. Mocking, carping, belittling, name-calling, emotional & histrionic.

For the record, in my 16 years on TMF I don't believe I have FA'ed anybody but myself (to pull a post to make a correction) and a few spammer trolls.

Maybe you missed the bit I said a while ago, that here at TMF it's all about the money and hard facts. Feelings and beliefs about strategies mean nothing, are useless, and have no place. When it comes to investment strategies, I go where the data takes me.

There's been more than once when I believed some strategy or tactic was good, and somebody said, "No, it's bad. And here are the numbers/backtest to show exactly what happens." See, numbers and backtests of a strategy are 95% important, and good feelings about a strategy is only 5% important at best.

No matter how you feel about a strategy, if the numbers show that strategy A makes $1000 and strategy B makes $127.47, then A is better than B. Now, it may be that A has volatility that has you chewing fingernails and B is as flat as a bathtub --- but that's a separate issue than which make more money.

It's silly to get emotional about strategies. You may love your strategy, but it doesn't love you back. When I go to the bank and deposit a sizeable check, they don't ask me if I made that money with a feel-good strategy -- they just count the number of digits on the amount.

As others have said, you're a great one for complaining about "offer an alternative for discussion". In the IUL threads you've done nothing but carp and call names.

Oh, and said that you are working up some hard data to prove your position.

That last is the ONLY worthwhile thing. Hopefully you'll actually come up with something -- so we can have a SUBSTANTIVE discussion instead of handwaving.

And, really, do you realize how silly it make you look, when I post numbers that shows A makes $781,000 and B makes $77,000 -- and you then say that B is clearly better than A, and that I am lying and making up stuff?
Claims mean NOTHING. The way you demonstrate things is by running the numbers and SHOWING them.

And nobody here is "religious" about investing in the S&P500. Nobody here cares about the S&P500 -- all they care about how much money they have in their portfolios at the finish line. Nobody here said anything about religion until *you* brought it up by calling names.


----------------------

I'm wondering what post of your got pulled. I don't recall seeing any replies which had quoted text that must have come from a deleted post.

However, now that I look, I see a few holes in the message numbers.
71884 & 5 are missing. 71887, 71892, 94, 95. 71903. Wow, that's a lot of missing posts. Were they all yours?

Maybe you should try to stop calling people names, like "he's a librul". Not only is it silly and makes you seem like a troll, it's often not even right. You've called people liberals who I *know* are not. Anyway, neither "liberal" or "conservative" is a pejorative.
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The same way a librul comes across on a conservative board. The same way a conservative comes across on a librul board. One faction doesn't agree with the other and FA's the "disagreeable" post. Mur-ray complains when his obnoxious post is FA'd. I complain when my benign post is FA'd.

What's your point?
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I guess we know who FA'd the reply.

I have no idea who FA'd my post, although I have an idea.

I have a standard policy of not FA'ing anyone's post.
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I have no idea what you're talking about. But I notice that you are taking the same tone in this complaint as you do in a lot of your posts. Mocking, carping, belittling, name-calling, emotional & histrionic.

Oh, that's rich, coming from you. Pfffffft! You win the grand prize for snarkiness.
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I have no idea what you're talking about. But I notice that you are taking the same tone in this complaint as you do in a lot of your posts. Mocking, carping, belittling, name-calling, emotional & histrionic.

I highly recommend the ignore button. The relative silence is golden.

For the record, I have not FA'ed any posts here. If someone is calling me childish names, I want others to see the mentality of the person they're conversing with.

-murray
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For the record, I have not FA'ed any posts here.

Riiiight.

Here's the practical reality on this topic. Nearly all the posters here have a religious commitment to their financial philosophy. They're incapable of discussing alternatives in a civil way. When someone does introduce a different approach, hoot'n 'n hollerin' is the dominant response. Mocking, scorning, derision and attacking is the modus operandi of Rayvt, Mur-ray, intercst and nearly all others who can't TOLERATE a different approach, even to carefully and respectfully analyze it.

There has been one--ONE!--countervailing response on this thread that was respectful. ALL the rest of you are sniggering, mewling, sarcastic, venomous supporters of your point of view, totally incapable of any other type of response.

Then you complain when a response is dismissive, as mine has been.
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I asked "With all due respect, do you have any idea how you come across in this and other posts?"

CC replied: "The same way a librul comes across on a conservative board. The same way a conservative comes across on a librul board. One faction doesn't agree with the other'

Obviously, you don't.

Here's a hint: Two plus two equals four, regardless of whether one is "liberal" or "conservative". Math is math no matter what "faction" one belongs to.

-synchronicity
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Here's a hint: Two plus two equals four, regardless of whether one is "liberal" or "conservative". Math is math no matter what "faction" one belongs to.

We'll see about the math. I was talking about the 'TUDE displayed when discussing the math.

Of course you knew that.
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I highly recommend the ignore button. The relative silence is golden.

+1

However, I am interested in this particular subject, and she might have something substantive to say on it. Eventually. If she ever gets around to runnning the investigation and posting the numbers as she said.

After all, even though I've convinced myself that IULs fail on their own terms ("delivering market-like returns without market risk"), it's always possible that I've missed some crucial point.

Watching her flail and project is kind of amusing.

If someone is calling me childish names, I want others to see the mentality of the person they're conversing with.
Heh. Yes. And they don't realize how badly they damage their own credibility. They think they are scoring points, but it's the exact opposite.
Dunning–Kruger effect.

"How do you explain to people who just don't get it that the problem is they just don't get it?"
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We'll see about the math. I was talking about the 'TUDE displayed when discussing the math.

If I cared, I'd go back through the whole "S&P & IUL" thread and see what things came in which order.

IIRC, I expressed doubt about the performance of IULs, and Dave challenged me -- and referred back to an even older thread where he claimed that he had proved his point. You chimed in to support Dave's argument. Okay.

Then I got annoyed, at both myslef and Dave. Dave because he keeps pushing and pushing IULs, and myself for engaging in handwaving arguments about a financial matter. And keeping getting drawn into the same debate and the same issue.

In finance & investing, handwaving is baloney. *ALL* that matters is the money, and all that matters is the numbers. We have the historical numbers. I've developed quite a bit of Excel knowledge over the last few years with respect to investment screens and backtesting. We know the rules of IUL's -- floor, cap, etc. (The fact that the company can lower the cap at it's sole discretion is another matter. I think that is a high risk, Dave thinks it is a low risk.)

Now, with the Excel experience I have, and all the various spreadsheets I already have from which I can steal pieces, why in the world was I arguing???
It's simple enough to plug the historical prices & the rules into a spreadsheet and see where the numbers lead. The first rough cut took less than an hour, and the largest part of that was finding and grabbing the appropriate formulas & techniques from my other spreadsheets. It only took even that long because I always like to see the statistics -- CAGR, MaxDD, Ulcer Index, Sortino Ratio, etc.

Anyway .... I ran this and posted the results. Plain and simple. The numbers are what they are. Numbers don't have an attitude.

When it comes to investing, nobody gives a cr*p about attitude. Attitude doesn't even enter into the picture. The only thing people care about is if a number is high or low. And secondarily, about the volatility.

As far as I can recall, you have not yet posted any numbers to back up your argument. We're waiting to see what you (and Dave, once he gets back from his vacation) come up with.

Numbers don't lie.
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With all due respect

What "due" respect?
 
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Posting the numbers is a LOT of work. I'll get to it. In the meantime, keep your snarky comments--typical for Rayvt--to yourself. Thank you.
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Of course you "got annoyed." That's who you be.
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For that matter, what "respect?" There is none if/when ANYONE posts something antithetical to the prevailing religion about financial matters prevalent on this board.
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However, I am interested in this particular subject, and she might have something substantive to say on it. Eventually. If she ever gets around to runnning the investigation and posting the numbers as she said.

After all, even though I've convinced myself that IULs fail on their own terms ("delivering market-like returns without market risk"), it's always possible that I've missed some crucial point.


I know that even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then, I got tired of the insults, childish whining and baseless claims. I'd be hard pressed to come up with more negative interactions I've had with anyone in over a dozen years on TMF. My 12 yo daughter acts far more mature than CC.

I'm sure she'll say she is no worse than others here, but I've not seen a single post calling her names or insulting her.

IF she pulls a rabbit out of her hat and has some relevant data, I'm sure the replies will make me aware.

Watching her flail and project is kind of amusing.

To some extent, yes, but the witty replies are more amusing.

Unfortunately, that amusement is detracting from the usefulness of this board. I think we would all do well to not reply to any of her posts unless she writes something relevant to the discussion of retirement investments. If she doesn't like the math presented, fine, wait for her to post corrections to the math. Every attempt to get details from her has digressed to her insulting us.

-murray
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Well, phuque you all. If Dave wants to present figures, he can knock himself out.


Translation: "The numbers do not support my position."
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You'll never know. I'm done with rude obnoxious know-it-alls. Think what you want. Do what you want. Pfffffft!
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You'll never know. I'm done with rude obnoxious know-it-alls. Think what you want. Do what you want. Pfffffft!

Yeah, IF ONLY there was SOMEONE on posting on this thread with knowledge of quantitative analysis, especially as applied to life insurance matters!

As an aside, I always thought you were involved almost exclusively in real estate and mortgages, not life insurance.

-synchronicity
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synchronicityII: "As an aside, I always thought you were involved almost exclusively in real estate and mortgages, not life insurance."

A commission is a commission.

Regards, JAFO
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Yeah, IF ONLY there was SOMEONE on posting on this thread with knowledge of quantitative analysis, especially as applied to life insurance matters!

Hey sync, you've previously said you had some opinions on these things. Do you feel like making a list of the pros and any cons we've missed?
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synchronicity, I PURCHASED an IUL. Is that alright with you? Apparently not.
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CCinOC: "JAFO, A-H as usual."

Still your kind, warm-hearted self, I see.

JAFO
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Still your rude, obnoxious self, I see.

You forgot your supercilious, useless, sanctimonious "disclosure," JAFO. What a stupid riot.
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I would like to thank BruceCM and Hawkwin for their courteous participation on this thread--even if their opinion runs counter to my own. So refreshing.
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Still your kind, warm-hearted self, I see.

Please, stop feeding the troll.

-murray
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synchronicity, I PURCHASED an IUL. Is that alright with you? Apparently not.

Probably from Dave. He's a good salesman.
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Mur-ray, you wouldn't know a troll if your bit yourself in your butt.
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No, I did not purchase it from Dave, which puts you, PSUEgineer, on the obnoxious list.
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synchronicity, I PURCHASED an IUL.
Yes, we know. You said so yourself way back in the 7702 (?) thread.

Is that alright with you? Apparently not.
Um, nobody cares what you do with your money.

What we are discussing is whether or not IULs deliver what they claim to deliver. "Market-like returns without market risk." Everything I've seen says that the answer is "No".

What they do appear to deliver is a modicum of short-term safety at a very high price.
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You'll never know. I'm done with rude obnoxious know-it-alls. Think what you want. Do what you want. Pfffffft!

Are you under the impression that we were sitting on the edge of our seats waiting for your figures? Frankly, I doubted that you'd ever post any numbers, but was hoping that you'd prove me wrong.

... and ...

Well, phuque you all. If Dave wants to present figures, he can knock himself out.

So, I guess you won't be presenting us with any figures or calculations that show the financial benefits of IULs, eh?

No matter what he says, y'all will be unconvinced, anyway.
That's a dumb thing to say. We've been saying all along that we'll go with whatever the numbers show. If he -- or anyone else -- posts numbers and calculations that show IULs deliver, then I'll be convinced.

But it's take just that -- numbers and calculations -- not mere assertions and tantrums.

The only person tossing about the business about "religious beliefs" has been you.

Dave has at least downloaded my first original spreadsheet to look at it. You (and him) are welcome to download the full one I just posted the link for.
Knowing Dave, I'm sure he'll grab it and take a look at it and critique it. He's not gonna throw a hissy-fit if he sees numbers like $739,000 vs. $41,000. He'll just look REAL CLOSE at the calculations to see if there are any errors.

I expect that certain other people will just huff and flounce away while calling names.
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Are you under the impression that we were sitting on the edge of our seats waiting for your figures? Frankly, I doubted that you'd ever post any numbers, but was hoping that you'd prove me wrong.

Ah, the proverbial "we." As usual, rude, obnoxious, revolting, loathsome, nasty and gross.
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You feel absolutely COMPELLED to be obnoxious, don't you, Rayvt? Why?
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MurrayS: "Please, stop feeding the troll."

I have two posts on this thread compared to your five.

IIRC, you also indicated that you "ploinked" her, so how and why do keep reading the posts and responding.

I have not counted the other threads, but I suspect I also have fewer posts on the other recent IUL threads, too.

Regards, JAFO
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I have two posts on this thread compared to your five.

You're absolutely right, I am as guilty as anyone (but one) here in driving this thread into the dumps.

IIRC, you also indicated that you "ploinked" her, so how and why do keep reading the posts and responding.

Indeed, CCinOC is in my "Ignored Fools List" and I have not responded to a single one of her posts since I added her to that list 3 days ago. I'm sure she could confirm that by looking in the replies to her posts.

I did respond to some "amusing" replies by others who quoted her and, in seeing the discussion get derailed further (by me and others), I think it would be best if we all chilled and got back to discussing retirement investing.

Bottom line, it's gotten quite ugly on this thread, more so than I can recall since I've been participating. I will try to improve my behavior.

-murray
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I find it a bit difficult to believe that mature, intelligent Fools propagate this thread. It is as useful to us as the IUL thread. Sheesh….go out to dinner, have a glass of wine and a nice appetizer. Enjoy your evening and portfolio performance.

Bill
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ii
With all due respect

What "due" respect?



? sometimes respect due = zero
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synchronicity,

Here's a hint: Two plus two equals four, regardless of whether one is "liberal" or "conservative". Math is math no matter what "faction" one belongs to.

Per my new Favorite tee-shirt:

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

Ignore is the only way to go.

Gene
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Yes, I am always constantly amazed that people think that by insulting others, you will somehow magically bring them around to agreeing with one's positions on an issue. It's always exactly the opposite.
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Well, phuque you all. If Dave wants to present figures, he can knock himself out.

I don't know about the rest of y'all, but I, for one, find this to be a logical and convincing argument.

AI
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Still your kind, warm-hearted self, I see.

Please, stop feeding the troll.

-murray'



>>>>>you're the one baiting and continuing to post jibes. you're a snark who posts nothing but criticism of others. Follow your own advice. you're grey now troll.
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>>>>>you're the one baiting and continuing to post jibes. you're a snark who posts nothing but criticism of others. Follow your own advice. you're grey now troll.


You are correct in that I did participate in the "baiting", but I strongly disagree that I post "nothing but criticism of others". Indeed, I did post criticisms, but only AFTER I posted relevant data and requests for opposing data was met with refusal and insults.

NOTHING I have posted is as insulting as the childish name calling and irrelevant political rants of CC.

I'm sorry you feel that way about my posts. As I said in another reply, I will try to improve my behavior.

-murray
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NOTHING I have posted is as insulting as the childish name calling and irrelevant political rants of CC.

I'm sorry you feel that way about my posts. As I said in another reply, I will try to improve my behavior.



apparently the liberals here got CC suspended...
suspect there'll be more friends coming to her defense


NTTAWWT
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apparently the liberals here got CC suspended...
suspect there'll be more friends coming to her defense


thanks for the heads-up. I just tracked back to find the Usual Suspects mentioning that.

What's funny is that anyone who thinks rayvt is a "liberal" is...well, uh, whatever.

Meanwhile, back to retirement investing.

-synchronicity
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apparently the liberals here got CC suspended...
suspect there'll be more friends coming to her defense


Don't think it has anything to do with "liberals". I think enough people got tired of her childish rants to report them. I'm certainly not a liberal, and I FA'd two of her posts yesterday.
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apparently the liberals here got CC suspended...
suspect there'll be more friends coming to her defense


Yeah, I think you're right. I looked at a certain poster's recent posts and in the last month, they've had exactly one post on this board accusing of me posting "nothing but criticism of others".

OTOH, the majority of their posts are on Retire Early CampFIRE.

Consider the source I guess...

-murray
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Suspension is extreme but seems like the only way to deal with this person. New to the board,a prolific poster, and always seemed to have an insult for everyone else. Strong opinions are one thing but the line was crossed. You don't move into a new neighborhood and start telling everyone what they're doing wrong if you expect to have any friends. This is one poster the board will be better without.
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Suspension is extreme but seems like the only way to deal with this person. New to the board,a prolific poster, and always seemed to have an insult for everyone else. Strong opinions are one thing but the line was crossed. You don't move into a new neighborhood and start telling everyone what they're doing wrong if you expect to have any friends. This is one poster the board will be better without.

There are a couple threads going on the Retire Early CampFIRE board regarding this if anyone is interested in the misinformation being spread.

I'll refrain from posting any more on the topic here and post there since that place is a cesspool of off topic arguments (like PA) anyways.

-murray
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No. of Recommendations: 5
Suspension is extreme but seems like the only way to deal with this person. New to the board,a prolific poster, and always seemed to have an insult for everyone else. Strong opinions are one thing but the line was crossed. You don't move into a new neighborhood and start telling everyone what they're doing wrong if you expect to have any friends. This is one poster the board will be better without.

There are a couple threads going on the Retire Early CampFIRE board regarding this if anyone is interested in the misinformation being spread.

I'll refrain from posting any more on the topic here and post there since that place is a cesspool of off topic arguments (like PA) anyways.
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Translation for the obvious impaired: Go the the Retire Early CampFIRE and rec my posts, i'm a complete rec wh*re, but i'm pretending i'm using restraint and not interested in the topic even though i've put up many posts at a board i don't frequent on the very topic i pretend not to be interested in. Please pay attention to me. Did i mention i love free speech? I don't like the Retire Early CampFIRE, they don't come out in favor of wealth redistribution and class warfare enough. Please go rec my posts now, my mother didn't love me enough.
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Translation for the obvious impaired: Go the the Retire Early CampFIRE and rec my posts, i'm a complete rec wh*re, but i'm pretending i'm using restraint and not interested in the topic even though i've put up many posts at a board i don't frequent on the very topic i pretend not to be interested in. Please pay attention to me. Did i mention i love free speech? I don't like the Retire Early CampFIRE, they don't come out in favor of wealth redistribution and class warfare enough. Please go rec my posts now, my mother didn't love me enough.

Pot. Kettle. Black.
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Translation for the obvious impaired: Go the the Retire Early CampFIRE and rec my posts, i'm a complete rec wh*re, but i'm pretending i'm using restraint and not interested in the topic even though i've put up many posts at a board i don't frequent on the very topic i pretend not to be interested in. Please pay attention to me. Did i mention i love free speech? I don't like the Retire Early CampFIRE, they don't come out in favor of wealth redistribution and class warfare enough. Please go rec my posts now, my mother didn't love me enough.


impressive
she's even more of a ****** ******* ***** than I
remembered


NTTAWWT
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