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Author: lhaselden Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 176637  
Subject: fiscal cliff Date: 12/3/2012 11:01 AM
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Why are Social Security and Medicare being included in these negotiations.
Social Security is not a current problem and will not be for 20 years or more. We can wait 10 years to modify social security.
Medicare is a current problem and needs to be dealt with if the AHCA does not bend the cost curve back to something close to inflation. In any case I think raising the age of eligibility for medicare is insane! That is the worse idea I have heard since I started paying into the system. Most of us have to wait on medicare to even think of retiring. Some of us are in very poor health by the time we reach 65 and need medicare because we are not able to work in any case. Without medicare eligibility, we will have to fight for disability. That idea stinks!!!
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Author: lhaselden Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 174930 of 176637
Subject: Re: fiscal cliff Date: 12/3/2012 12:23 PM
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http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/03/15645526-obama...

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Author: Howie52 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 174931 of 176637
Subject: Re: fiscal cliff Date: 12/4/2012 11:50 PM
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"Why are Social Security and Medicare being included in these negotiations. "

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

First question: What negotiations?

Second question: What is different compared to when the "cliff" was
part of the negotiations to increase the debt ceiling limit? Other
than extraordinary additional debts?

Third question: What do you feel is the impact of the Fed buying our
own bonds?

Fourth question: What is the difference between an expenditure that
is paid by government sale of bonds to repay obligations incurred
from prior dealings and any other "bond" payment?

Fifth question: What did the bondholders holding GM debt get back
of their principle?

Sixth question: What are the Greek bondholders likely to get from their
holdings?

Seventh question: What level of debt do you suppose will constitute
the level where there will never be a serious ability to pay back the
principle?

Howie52
A thumbnail sketch -
Government obligations require a commitment of funds - of revenue.
If these commitments are not funded - someone is left holding the
bag at some point.
Bonds pay interest to account for risk to principle - but
bond yields are being "artificially" fixed such that the inherent
"risk" is not covered.
This is not a stable approach.
Unstable approaches fail.
If the government continues in the current path, the government
will fail.
There is no social security if the government fails.

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Author: lhaselden Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 174932 of 176637
Subject: Re: fiscal cliff Date: 12/5/2012 7:12 AM
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So you think the Government should continue to rob social security to finance lower tax rates?

The problems with medicare are solvable within it's own funding and spending formulas. There is no reason to raise medicare eligibility age to solve the fiscal cliff that Congress and the President created by a failure to compromise.

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Author: kenm47 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 174933 of 176637
Subject: Re: fiscal cliff Date: 12/5/2012 8:08 AM
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"Fiscal Cliff" explained:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/12/mr-burns-explai...

Ken

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Author: ep0001 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 174935 of 176637
Subject: Re: fiscal cliff Date: 12/5/2012 9:44 PM
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Some have refered to the "cliff" as a slope. Won't do much damage after an initial adjustment.

A little bit for everyone; raises taxes and cuts spending

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Author: ep0001 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 174937 of 176637
Subject: Re: fiscal cliff Date: 12/5/2012 9:49 PM
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I don't understand. Looks like grandstanding by both sides.

http://thehill.com/video/senate/271255-mcconnell-calls-for-v...

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Author: Hawkwin Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 174942 of 176637
Subject: Re: fiscal cliff Date: 12/6/2012 2:47 PM
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I think raising the age of eligibility for medicare is insane! That is the worse idea I have heard since I started paying into the system.

If full SS does not kick in until 67, why should Medicare kick in at 65? Logically, those two should have the same starting age.

Since Obamacare is going to cap the cost of insurance for old people, those age 60 to 66 should be able to find insurance cheaper than what is currently available. The price will be subsidized via either the fed or the higher fees paid by everyone younger (Community Pricing).

Some of us are in very poor health by the time we reach 65 and need medicare because we are not able to work in any case.

No longer an issue with pre-existing condition no longer exluded.

That idea stinks!!!

The simple fact is that ACA has made raising the medicare eligibity aid much much easier, and likely.

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Author: Howie52 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 174944 of 176637
Subject: Re: fiscal cliff Date: 12/6/2012 9:14 PM
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"So you think the Government should continue to rob social security to finance lower tax rates?"

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I think that the government will continue to spend everything and
more - until it and the country fails.

I think that there will never be a reduction in spending - even if
all profits and all income is absorbed into the state.

I think that the end-game produces a poorer life for everyone and
opportunity for only a few of the party elites.

I see Russia as the future for the world.
I see the farms of China as the future of agriculture.

I see the poor abandoned with no chance of improvement - led
into even greater mind-numbing poverty by higher energy costs,
higher medical costs, little to no services, rationed food,
rationed medicines, rolling blackouts - when there is power
of any kind. And I see the ruling class telling them it is always
someone else's fault - some enemy - someone to blame - someone to divide and conquer.

Worse thing of all, I see this coming from folks who
tell themselves that every step is for the best and that
they are really helping the poor - all the while the
only ones who are helped are the party elites.

Howie52

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